The only common denominator is your owners, they constantly fail to back the manager/team at crucial moments.
Maybe, just maybe the teams we go out to in cups and the teams above us in the top 4 (generally speaking, Leicester aside) are just simply bigger than us and we're not expected to beat them.
Our cup finals record in recent years is par. It's expected. For us to have won any would have been considered an upset.
You could argue that when we faced United in the League Cup final a few years back we were the better side and were marginal favourites going into it. That's, I think, where history plays its part and the weight of the United history is felt. I do think the Ronaldo years, the Cantona years and even as far back as the Best, Law and Charlton impact the belief of the squad in today's game. Same for Liverpool. That's where I think we go missing in finals. We face better teams AND their history. That's difficult to overhaul without a lot of money.
In terms of league form, I don't think we've done that bad against the original top 4-6. We're the 6-7th highest spenders in the league so for us to have even been near the top four for the last 6 years or so is punching.
The bottom line is that the reason we don't win many of them is that we're not expected to. It's the same reason we mostly beat teams lower than us.
Leicester aside ...........
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe, just maybe the teams we go out to in cups and the teams above us in the top 4 (generally speaking, Leicester aside) are just simply bigger than us and we're not expected to beat them.
Our cup finals record in recent years is par. It's expected. For us to have won any would have been considered an upset.
You could argue that when we faced United in the League Cup final a few years back we were the better side and were marginal favourites going into it. That's, I think, where history plays its part and the weight of the United history is felt. I do think the Ronaldo years, the Cantona years and even as far back as the Best, Law and Charlton impact the belief of the squad in today's game. Same for Liverpool. That's where I think we go missing in finals. We face better teams AND their history. That's difficult to overhaul without a lot of money.
In terms of league form, I don't think we've done that bad against the original top 4-6. We're the 6-7th highest spenders in the league so for us to have even been near the top four for the last 6 years or so is punching.
The bottom line is that the reason we don't win many of them is that we're not expected to. It's the same reason we mostly beat teams lower than us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that teams with exorbitant amounts of money like Chelsea and Man City, or teams with historically great revenues such as Man U have a distinct disadvantage over us. But, that doesn't really explain why our players constantly bottle it when we've done the hard work of putting ourselves in great positions/situations.
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
So all the time we don't spend big you don't win big.
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, super league boss for 24 hours (U20567)
posted 18 seconds ago
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're quite right Sandy. I should probably have just referred to the Premier League era. Before that we were at least a great cup side and even won European trophies.
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 8 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
So all the time we don't spend big you don't win big.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the same as saying "why don't Nuneaton win the F.A Cup". There are bigger clubs that have the money and resources to get closer to it.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, super league boss for 24 hours (U20567)
posted 18 seconds ago
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're quite right Sandy. I should probably have just referred to the Premier League era. Before that we were at least a great cup side and even won European trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gezza, seems like since the Prem era, they have forgotten how to win the big games in semis and finals.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 21 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Bale didn't help did he so what makes you think Messi or Ronaldo would?
Bad luck and lack of quality when it comes to the business end of cup competitions and league seasons. We have had very good individual players for a long time but never quite the depth that we need to get us over the line.
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 21 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Bale didn't help did he so what makes you think Messi or Ronaldo would?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put Bale level with Messi and Ronaldo?
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 18 minutes ago
Need to win one thing and all that would change. We got into a real slump in terms of being nearly men. Beaten by Villa in a cup semi final, beaten by Chelsea in a league cup semi final, beaten by Sevilla in the Europa, beaten by Madrid in the CL final, hit 98 points in the Prem and still came second. All across 5 years. One win changes everything, won the CL and the next season we won the Prem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no comparison between Liverpool and Spurs. When Liverpool get to a final, generally speaking I back them all the way to get over the line. I don't know if it's because they were the dominant team when I was a kid but they have the weight of history behind that Spurs just don't have. Yes, we were good in the early 60s apparently but nothing like the dominance seen at United and Liverpool. I think that history can drag you over the line. It's what drives you to beat one of the best Milan sides in history in 2005 against the odds. It's all about pressure, expectation and confidence. A player in a spurs team playing in a final won't feel as confident as if he'd moved to a team regularly winning cups. If his confidence is higher, his game is better. This new reputation for bottling finals is relatively new but we need to shake it off. It's fast becoming the new 'England at penalties'.
Liverpool's more recent struggles to win trophies were remedied when they spent the Coutinho money on class players in positions they needed to strengthen. Suddenly people started picking them to challenge for the league and they did and along with it won the CL.
Under poch we were very successful, top 4 four years in a row, and a CL final. These were massive achievements for a club of our size.
Could you imagine Everton getting top 4 for the next few years and making a CL final? Would be an incredible achievement, and if after that they drift away again it would hardly be a surprise.
Spurs are the smallest club of the big 6, spend the least on transfers and wages so it's expected that we don't win anything imo. If we had ambitious owners we could kick on, but it won't be possible until that happens.
It's hard to win trophies
I hear all the comments re lack of funds and us punching above our weight etc. But just take Saturday as an example; we inexplicably were still an outside chance for the top, 4 despite our bad season and then we play a newly promoted side in an empty stadium and failed to put pressure on the likes of Leicester and West Ham (who subsequently lost) and Chelsea, who could easily have lost but for Aguero messing up the penalty. Why can't our players cope with pressure and dare I say...expectation?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 17 minutes ago
I hear all the comments re lack of funds and us punching above our weight etc. But just take Saturday as an example; we inexplicably were still an outside chance for the top, 4 despite our bad season and then we play a newly promoted side in an empty stadium and failed to put pressure on the likes of Leicester and West Ham (who subsequently lost) and Chelsea, who could easily have lost but for Aguero messing up the penalty. Why can't our players cope with pressure and dare I say...expectation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds are a good team though, they aren't just your average newly promoted team. In fact it seems to be more common now that one of the newly promoted lot has a very good debut season.
I think we could have lost to Leeds had we been bang in form with 7 wins on the trot.
Our owners do not buy the very best players that are capable of winning things, they do most of their shopping in the tier below and are not prepared to pay top dollar for top talent.
Levy is always on the lookout out for opportunistic bargains and would rather spend money on a player that may become a star or whose value will increase, when he should be signing top players to upgrade poor players with no nonsense efficiency.
A consequence of our owners not acting like the big club that we are, is the media don`t take us seriously and we are all too easy to mock. This filters into the way the officials officiate our games, we are rarely given the benefit of doubt in key moments, compare this to our rivals who are almost always on the right end of dodgy decisions. That makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
The whole perception around Spurs needs to change, the way the media are all too happy to dismiss us, and sell our best players at every given opportunity is a consequence of our lack of ambition at board level.
The club needs a complete reset, and that starts with the removal of Levy, Lewis and ENIC.
By all accounts our scouts (Hitchen etc) are very good and have recommended some very good players, but Levy will not pay what is required. Hence why we miss out on top players and end up with 2nd and 3rd choice dross.
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 6 minutes ago
Our owners do not buy the very best players that are capable of winning things, they do most of their shopping in the tier below and are not prepared to pay top dollar for top talent.
Levy is always on the lookout out for opportunistic bargains and would rather spend money on a player that may become a star or whose value will increase, when he should be signing top players to upgrade poor players with no nonsense efficiency.
A consequence of our owners not acting like the big club that we are, is the media don`t take us seriously and we are all too easy to mock. This filters into the way the officials officiate our games, we are rarely given the benefit of doubt in key moments, compare this to our rivals who are almost always on the right end of dodgy decisions. That makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
The whole perception around Spurs needs to change, the way the media are all too happy to dismiss us, and sell our best players at every given opportunity is a consequence of our lack of ambition at board level.
The club needs a complete reset, and that starts with the removal of Levy, Lewis and ENIC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This. It really isn’t hard winning trophies if you harbour the ambition on the field. Chelsea have been doing it successfully season after season. City now do it successfully. Other clubs have done it successfully with the right recruitment and are not financially doped. Spurs simply don’t invest in the best players. They shop at the bargain bins. Instead of Dias at centre back, we buy Rodon. Not that I have anything against Rodon, but if we are going to buy a young centre back, we need to be buying a class centre back too. Vinicius another example. A basement bargain loan. Why not spend 50 mil on a top attacker ? One that can play with Harry. We are for ever the bridesmaids, never the bride. We don’t have the quality to win trophies and are forever losers
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Spurs's DNA
Page 1 of 2
posted on 10/5/21
The only common denominator is your owners, they constantly fail to back the manager/team at crucial moments.
posted on 10/5/21
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
posted on 10/5/21
Maybe, just maybe the teams we go out to in cups and the teams above us in the top 4 (generally speaking, Leicester aside) are just simply bigger than us and we're not expected to beat them.
Our cup finals record in recent years is par. It's expected. For us to have won any would have been considered an upset.
You could argue that when we faced United in the League Cup final a few years back we were the better side and were marginal favourites going into it. That's, I think, where history plays its part and the weight of the United history is felt. I do think the Ronaldo years, the Cantona years and even as far back as the Best, Law and Charlton impact the belief of the squad in today's game. Same for Liverpool. That's where I think we go missing in finals. We face better teams AND their history. That's difficult to overhaul without a lot of money.
In terms of league form, I don't think we've done that bad against the original top 4-6. We're the 6-7th highest spenders in the league so for us to have even been near the top four for the last 6 years or so is punching.
The bottom line is that the reason we don't win many of them is that we're not expected to. It's the same reason we mostly beat teams lower than us.
posted on 10/5/21
Leicester aside ...........
posted on 10/5/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe, just maybe the teams we go out to in cups and the teams above us in the top 4 (generally speaking, Leicester aside) are just simply bigger than us and we're not expected to beat them.
Our cup finals record in recent years is par. It's expected. For us to have won any would have been considered an upset.
You could argue that when we faced United in the League Cup final a few years back we were the better side and were marginal favourites going into it. That's, I think, where history plays its part and the weight of the United history is felt. I do think the Ronaldo years, the Cantona years and even as far back as the Best, Law and Charlton impact the belief of the squad in today's game. Same for Liverpool. That's where I think we go missing in finals. We face better teams AND their history. That's difficult to overhaul without a lot of money.
In terms of league form, I don't think we've done that bad against the original top 4-6. We're the 6-7th highest spenders in the league so for us to have even been near the top four for the last 6 years or so is punching.
The bottom line is that the reason we don't win many of them is that we're not expected to. It's the same reason we mostly beat teams lower than us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that teams with exorbitant amounts of money like Chelsea and Man City, or teams with historically great revenues such as Man U have a distinct disadvantage over us. But, that doesn't really explain why our players constantly bottle it when we've done the hard work of putting ourselves in great positions/situations.
posted on 10/5/21
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
posted on 10/5/21
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
So all the time we don't spend big you don't win big.
posted on 10/5/21
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, super league boss for 24 hours (U20567)
posted 18 seconds ago
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're quite right Sandy. I should probably have just referred to the Premier League era. Before that we were at least a great cup side and even won European trophies.
posted on 10/5/21
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 8 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
So all the time we don't spend big you don't win big.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the same as saying "why don't Nuneaton win the F.A Cup". There are bigger clubs that have the money and resources to get closer to it.
posted on 10/5/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/5/21
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by sandy, Ryan Mason, super league boss for 24 hours (U20567)
posted 18 seconds ago
Gezza-Spurs
Great article mate. The amazing thing is it has not always been in Spurs DNA to bottle semis and finals. From the 1960s right through until the early 1990s, Spurs had a brilliant record in semi-finals and finals, and they didn`t always have great sides over that period. Often they would be 8th/9th in the table, but still manage to win trophies.
Definitely need to get rid of the mentality, where they roll over to any club supposedly better than them in semi-finals and finals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're quite right Sandy. I should probably have just referred to the Premier League era. Before that we were at least a great cup side and even won European trophies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gezza, seems like since the Prem era, they have forgotten how to win the big games in semis and finals.
posted on 10/5/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/5/21
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 21 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Bale didn't help did he so what makes you think Messi or Ronaldo would?
posted on 10/5/21
Bad luck and lack of quality when it comes to the business end of cup competitions and league seasons. We have had very good individual players for a long time but never quite the depth that we need to get us over the line.
posted on 10/5/21
comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 21 minutes ago
It's all about money, say for example we got Messi and Ronaldo on loan can you imagine the impact that would have on the team, and the message it sends out.
Instead We get Hutton and Vinicius instead hardly the sort of player that will make the hairs on your neck stand up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Bale didn't help did he so what makes you think Messi or Ronaldo would?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put Bale level with Messi and Ronaldo?
posted on 10/5/21
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 18 minutes ago
Need to win one thing and all that would change. We got into a real slump in terms of being nearly men. Beaten by Villa in a cup semi final, beaten by Chelsea in a league cup semi final, beaten by Sevilla in the Europa, beaten by Madrid in the CL final, hit 98 points in the Prem and still came second. All across 5 years. One win changes everything, won the CL and the next season we won the Prem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no comparison between Liverpool and Spurs. When Liverpool get to a final, generally speaking I back them all the way to get over the line. I don't know if it's because they were the dominant team when I was a kid but they have the weight of history behind that Spurs just don't have. Yes, we were good in the early 60s apparently but nothing like the dominance seen at United and Liverpool. I think that history can drag you over the line. It's what drives you to beat one of the best Milan sides in history in 2005 against the odds. It's all about pressure, expectation and confidence. A player in a spurs team playing in a final won't feel as confident as if he'd moved to a team regularly winning cups. If his confidence is higher, his game is better. This new reputation for bottling finals is relatively new but we need to shake it off. It's fast becoming the new 'England at penalties'.
posted on 10/5/21
Liverpool's more recent struggles to win trophies were remedied when they spent the Coutinho money on class players in positions they needed to strengthen. Suddenly people started picking them to challenge for the league and they did and along with it won the CL.
posted on 10/5/21
Under poch we were very successful, top 4 four years in a row, and a CL final. These were massive achievements for a club of our size.
Could you imagine Everton getting top 4 for the next few years and making a CL final? Would be an incredible achievement, and if after that they drift away again it would hardly be a surprise.
Spurs are the smallest club of the big 6, spend the least on transfers and wages so it's expected that we don't win anything imo. If we had ambitious owners we could kick on, but it won't be possible until that happens.
posted on 10/5/21
It's hard to win trophies
posted on 10/5/21
I hear all the comments re lack of funds and us punching above our weight etc. But just take Saturday as an example; we inexplicably were still an outside chance for the top, 4 despite our bad season and then we play a newly promoted side in an empty stadium and failed to put pressure on the likes of Leicester and West Ham (who subsequently lost) and Chelsea, who could easily have lost but for Aguero messing up the penalty. Why can't our players cope with pressure and dare I say...expectation?
posted on 10/5/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/5/21
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 17 minutes ago
I hear all the comments re lack of funds and us punching above our weight etc. But just take Saturday as an example; we inexplicably were still an outside chance for the top, 4 despite our bad season and then we play a newly promoted side in an empty stadium and failed to put pressure on the likes of Leicester and West Ham (who subsequently lost) and Chelsea, who could easily have lost but for Aguero messing up the penalty. Why can't our players cope with pressure and dare I say...expectation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds are a good team though, they aren't just your average newly promoted team. In fact it seems to be more common now that one of the newly promoted lot has a very good debut season.
I think we could have lost to Leeds had we been bang in form with 7 wins on the trot.
posted on 10/5/21
Our owners do not buy the very best players that are capable of winning things, they do most of their shopping in the tier below and are not prepared to pay top dollar for top talent.
Levy is always on the lookout out for opportunistic bargains and would rather spend money on a player that may become a star or whose value will increase, when he should be signing top players to upgrade poor players with no nonsense efficiency.
A consequence of our owners not acting like the big club that we are, is the media don`t take us seriously and we are all too easy to mock. This filters into the way the officials officiate our games, we are rarely given the benefit of doubt in key moments, compare this to our rivals who are almost always on the right end of dodgy decisions. That makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
The whole perception around Spurs needs to change, the way the media are all too happy to dismiss us, and sell our best players at every given opportunity is a consequence of our lack of ambition at board level.
The club needs a complete reset, and that starts with the removal of Levy, Lewis and ENIC.
posted on 10/5/21
By all accounts our scouts (Hitchen etc) are very good and have recommended some very good players, but Levy will not pay what is required. Hence why we miss out on top players and end up with 2nd and 3rd choice dross.
posted on 10/5/21
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* (U3924)
posted 6 minutes ago
Our owners do not buy the very best players that are capable of winning things, they do most of their shopping in the tier below and are not prepared to pay top dollar for top talent.
Levy is always on the lookout out for opportunistic bargains and would rather spend money on a player that may become a star or whose value will increase, when he should be signing top players to upgrade poor players with no nonsense efficiency.
A consequence of our owners not acting like the big club that we are, is the media don`t take us seriously and we are all too easy to mock. This filters into the way the officials officiate our games, we are rarely given the benefit of doubt in key moments, compare this to our rivals who are almost always on the right end of dodgy decisions. That makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
The whole perception around Spurs needs to change, the way the media are all too happy to dismiss us, and sell our best players at every given opportunity is a consequence of our lack of ambition at board level.
The club needs a complete reset, and that starts with the removal of Levy, Lewis and ENIC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This. It really isn’t hard winning trophies if you harbour the ambition on the field. Chelsea have been doing it successfully season after season. City now do it successfully. Other clubs have done it successfully with the right recruitment and are not financially doped. Spurs simply don’t invest in the best players. They shop at the bargain bins. Instead of Dias at centre back, we buy Rodon. Not that I have anything against Rodon, but if we are going to buy a young centre back, we need to be buying a class centre back too. Vinicius another example. A basement bargain loan. Why not spend 50 mil on a top attacker ? One that can play with Harry. We are for ever the bridesmaids, never the bride. We don’t have the quality to win trophies and are forever losers
Page 1 of 2