comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
Looking at the play-offs this season, it is a similar story:
12 first leg goals (2 goals per game)
24 second leg goals (4 goals per game)
Play offs don't have the away goal rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting. Hardly surprising though. Fear of failure is usually the overriding feature in the first of two legged ties in modern football. You hear players say it all the time. It's about staying in the tie for the second leg
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are several managers who wish to do away with the away goal, the main opponent being Jose Mourinho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf jose wants to do away with home goals too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🤣
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are several managers who wish to do away with the away goal, the main opponent being Jose Mourinho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf jose wants to do away with home goals too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always found it weird he’s against away goals. You’d think he’d be in favour of it because technically you don’t have to win the tie.
Play all 2nd round and subsequent matches over 1 leg at a neutral venue
Just a thought
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about that...in a survey conducted a couple of years back, I don't have a link so sorry, but I was surprised that when managers of competing teams were asked which their preferences were to play at home or away 40 % said they preferred the home match first. 40% said that it did not matter.
I was surprised at this because I thought there was a clear advantage of playing at home second leg in front of the fans. But of course that only works if you handled the first leg ok.... the away goals rule could bite you at home.
Its definitely more exciting with the rule and the draw offers its own luck even with who plays who to start with. So its all fair in love and war...and teams are all subjected evenly to the rules.
Its definitely more exciting with the rule
===
Is it? A lot of games are dead in the 2nd leg because of the rule. It also kills off chances of a grandstand finish in many games.
I don’t think it’s that surprising. Knowing what your away goals target may be in the second leg can be really beneficial. Especially if it’s been a low scoring first leg.
Plus in the event of it going to extra time, you get an extra half hour of the rule. Look at how the away goal facked Juve in et against Porto. All of a sudden they need two goals to win the tie. They went out with a draw. It’s booollocks.
Why would they get rid of the rule when fans are allowed back in stadiums and not before?
Seems a pretty special move, but wouldn't expect anything different from the higher ups of a football corporation.
The team at home has such a huge advantage, especially clubs like Liverpool where their fans literally bully you for 90+ minutes.
Clubs like City, would no almost no difference because they have 2 or 3 fans in their ground on a big day anyway.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
Its definitely more exciting with the rule
===
Is it? A lot of games are dead in the 2nd leg because of the rule. It also kills off chances of a grandstand finish in many games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If your team plays better, you win end of. Those fabulous reversals away and home matches are legendary to the fans who experienced them. Chelsea v Napoli remains in my memory...there are a few others...
The rule's main advantage is to encourage the away team to be more attacking, in the first leg rather opting for a 0-0 as the target result.
If your team plays better, you win end of.
======
I think that is the point though. With the away goal rule you don't have to play better or win. You go through with a draw.
The rule's main advantage is to encourage the away team to be more attacking, in the first leg rather opting for a 0-0 as the target result.
=======
No evidence it does though.
The average number of goals in CL 1st legs was the same as the 1st legs of this seasons play-offs that don't have the away goal rule.
Good. It'll stop the first leg home team being defensive. They'll attack more.
comment by Car Van knee (U5318)
posted 8 seconds ago
Good. It'll stop the first leg home team being defensive. They'll attack more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't that what home teams generally try to do...thats why some managers say its easier to score away...than at home...home teams less defensive minded....all generalisations I do realise...
In theory it should make games in general more attacking, as the fear of conceding an away goal is no longer there.
Obviously it’s not as simple as that, as the home team might be managed by Simeone so it won’t change anything.
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through.
Might see more penalty shootouts as well, which would be a good thing as they are they provide the greatest drama in football.
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through
=============
Yeah, I doubt it will have that much affect on the games themselves.
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
In theory it should make games in general more attacking, as the fear of conceding an away goal is no longer there.
Obviously it’s not as simple as that, as the home team might be managed by Simeone so it won’t change anything.
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through.
Might see more penalty shootouts as well, which would be a good thing as they are they provide the greatest drama in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re contradicting yourself though. You say the away goal is stupid because you don’t have to win a game to go through, yet you advocate settling it on penalties, where you could also get through without winning a game....
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
It would be hard to measure, because obviously style, quality and how much the home fans influence a particular team, but I think home teams would be less fearful of conceding without the away goal. It puts the emphasis on the home team getting an advantageous result in their own stadium, rather than playing to the score that the away goal dictates.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 seconds ago
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing the point. The criticism of the away goal is that it encourages ultra defensive tactics. If you have a team that are generally good at penalty shootouts it could have the same effect. It’s all well and good saying how entertaining penalty shootouts are, but is it worth sitting through 180 minutes of negative football to get there?
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
unfair for which team?
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 seconds ago
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing the point. The criticism of the away goal is that it encourages ultra defensive tactics. If you have a team that are generally good at penalty shootouts it could have the same effect. It’s all well and good saying how entertaining penalty shootouts are, but is it worth sitting through 180 minutes of negative football to get there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, the criticism of the away goal rule is that you "win" by scoring the same number of goals as your opponent. Doesn't make sense.
With or without away goals you still get ultra defensive sides playing for a penalty shoot-out. You also get sides far superior, so the inferior team is going to defend for its life. That doesn't change with or without away goals.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
unfair for which team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The teams that get knocked out.
Sign in if you want to comment
Away goal rule scrapped
Page 2 of 3
posted on 28/5/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
Looking at the play-offs this season, it is a similar story:
12 first leg goals (2 goals per game)
24 second leg goals (4 goals per game)
Play offs don't have the away goal rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting. Hardly surprising though. Fear of failure is usually the overriding feature in the first of two legged ties in modern football. You hear players say it all the time. It's about staying in the tie for the second leg
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are several managers who wish to do away with the away goal, the main opponent being Jose Mourinho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf jose wants to do away with home goals too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🤣
posted on 28/5/21
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are several managers who wish to do away with the away goal, the main opponent being Jose Mourinho
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf jose wants to do away with home goals too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always found it weird he’s against away goals. You’d think he’d be in favour of it because technically you don’t have to win the tie.
posted on 28/5/21
Play all 2nd round and subsequent matches over 1 leg at a neutral venue
Just a thought
posted on 28/5/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about that...in a survey conducted a couple of years back, I don't have a link so sorry, but I was surprised that when managers of competing teams were asked which their preferences were to play at home or away 40 % said they preferred the home match first. 40% said that it did not matter.
I was surprised at this because I thought there was a clear advantage of playing at home second leg in front of the fans. But of course that only works if you handled the first leg ok.... the away goals rule could bite you at home.
Its definitely more exciting with the rule and the draw offers its own luck even with who plays who to start with. So its all fair in love and war...and teams are all subjected evenly to the rules.
posted on 28/5/21
Its definitely more exciting with the rule
===
Is it? A lot of games are dead in the 2nd leg because of the rule. It also kills off chances of a grandstand finish in many games.
posted on 28/5/21
I don’t think it’s that surprising. Knowing what your away goals target may be in the second leg can be really beneficial. Especially if it’s been a low scoring first leg.
Plus in the event of it going to extra time, you get an extra half hour of the rule. Look at how the away goal facked Juve in et against Porto. All of a sudden they need two goals to win the tie. They went out with a draw. It’s booollocks.
posted on 28/5/21
Why would they get rid of the rule when fans are allowed back in stadiums and not before?
Seems a pretty special move, but wouldn't expect anything different from the higher ups of a football corporation.
The team at home has such a huge advantage, especially clubs like Liverpool where their fans literally bully you for 90+ minutes.
Clubs like City, would no almost no difference because they have 2 or 3 fans in their ground on a big day anyway.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
Its definitely more exciting with the rule
===
Is it? A lot of games are dead in the 2nd leg because of the rule. It also kills off chances of a grandstand finish in many games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If your team plays better, you win end of. Those fabulous reversals away and home matches are legendary to the fans who experienced them. Chelsea v Napoli remains in my memory...there are a few others...
The rule's main advantage is to encourage the away team to be more attacking, in the first leg rather opting for a 0-0 as the target result.
posted on 28/5/21
If your team plays better, you win end of.
======
I think that is the point though. With the away goal rule you don't have to play better or win. You go through with a draw.
posted on 28/5/21
The rule's main advantage is to encourage the away team to be more attacking, in the first leg rather opting for a 0-0 as the target result.
=======
No evidence it does though.
The average number of goals in CL 1st legs was the same as the 1st legs of this seasons play-offs that don't have the away goal rule.
posted on 28/5/21
Good. It'll stop the first leg home team being defensive. They'll attack more.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Car Van knee (U5318)
posted 8 seconds ago
Good. It'll stop the first leg home team being defensive. They'll attack more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't that what home teams generally try to do...thats why some managers say its easier to score away...than at home...home teams less defensive minded....all generalisations I do realise...
posted on 28/5/21
In theory it should make games in general more attacking, as the fear of conceding an away goal is no longer there.
Obviously it’s not as simple as that, as the home team might be managed by Simeone so it won’t change anything.
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through.
Might see more penalty shootouts as well, which would be a good thing as they are they provide the greatest drama in football.
posted on 28/5/21
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through
=============
Yeah, I doubt it will have that much affect on the games themselves.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
In theory it should make games in general more attacking, as the fear of conceding an away goal is no longer there.
Obviously it’s not as simple as that, as the home team might be managed by Simeone so it won’t change anything.
But ultimately it boils down to one thing: the away goals rule is stupid because you don’t have to win the tie to go through.
Might see more penalty shootouts as well, which would be a good thing as they are they provide the greatest drama in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re contradicting yourself though. You say the away goal is stupid because you don’t have to win a game to go through, yet you advocate settling it on penalties, where you could also get through without winning a game....
posted on 28/5/21
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
posted on 28/5/21
It would be hard to measure, because obviously style, quality and how much the home fans influence a particular team, but I think home teams would be less fearful of conceding without the away goal. It puts the emphasis on the home team getting an advantageous result in their own stadium, rather than playing to the score that the away goal dictates.
posted on 28/5/21
DJ gets it.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 seconds ago
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing the point. The criticism of the away goal is that it encourages ultra defensive tactics. If you have a team that are generally good at penalty shootouts it could have the same effect. It’s all well and good saying how entertaining penalty shootouts are, but is it worth sitting through 180 minutes of negative football to get there?
posted on 28/5/21
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
unfair for which team?
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 12 seconds ago
Winning a game = scoring more than the opponent.
Penalty shoot-outs achieve that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing the point. The criticism of the away goal is that it encourages ultra defensive tactics. If you have a team that are generally good at penalty shootouts it could have the same effect. It’s all well and good saying how entertaining penalty shootouts are, but is it worth sitting through 180 minutes of negative football to get there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, the criticism of the away goal rule is that you "win" by scoring the same number of goals as your opponent. Doesn't make sense.
With or without away goals you still get ultra defensive sides playing for a penalty shoot-out. You also get sides far superior, so the inferior team is going to defend for its life. That doesn't change with or without away goals.
posted on 28/5/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Tway (U1162)
posted 17 seconds ago
In the last proper CL campaign, the knockouts saw:
28 first leg goals (ave 2 a game)
59 second leg goals (ave 4 a game)
14 games
Suggests to me that away goals don't make a team attack more in the first leg, teams just don't want to lose it in the first leg.
----------------
Not at all surprising statistics...as generally more goals are scored in the second half of most matches .
The first leg is usually seen as the fist half of a match where the teams size each other up. Most matches are settled in the second half, or in this case the second leg.
Luck of the draw is also a consideration...who you play and where first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising at all. Which makes away goals rule unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
unfair for which team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The teams that get knocked out.
Page 2 of 3