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posted on 21/9/21

This is circular reasoning, Ron, it doesn't make sense. You're trying to fit an argument about recruitment to your position that you want rid of the manager.

It's been demonstrated that we have a good crop of youngsters coming through, one or two of whom look outstanding prospects, like Hannibal, one who's broken through already, Greenwood, and a scattering of very good young and youngish players. Every team needs experienced players round youngsters, but are you suggesting every we shouldn't have brought any experienced players in?

Your point that a new manager must spend £500m to be competitive seems a bit hysterical to me. I can't imagine a right back and a good holding midfielder will cost that. Even if you insist that we need a new centre forward immediately, which I disagree with, that still doesn't take us up to your mythical figure that needs to be spent to be competitive.

I think Elvis is spot on about centre forward, by the way, even without the unlikely signing of Haaland. It'll mean changing the way we play to more closely mirror the system we had in the late 2000's, but a fluid interchangeable three of Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood is a prospect I find incredibly exciting, and if the young Swedish kid Elanga keeps developing he might fit in that pattern.

Good times to be a red.

posted on 21/9/21

comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 13 minutes ago
This is circular reasoning, Ron, it doesn't make sense. You're trying to fit an argument about recruitment to your position that you want rid of the manager.

It's been demonstrated that we have a good crop of youngsters coming through, one or two of whom look outstanding prospects, like Hannibal, one who's broken through already, Greenwood, and a scattering of very good young and youngish players. Every team needs experienced players round youngsters, but are you suggesting every we shouldn't have brought any experienced players in?

Your point that a new manager must spend £500m to be competitive seems a bit hysterical to me. I can't imagine a right back and a good holding midfielder will cost that. Even if you insist that we need a new centre forward immediately, which I disagree with, that still doesn't take us up to your mythical figure that needs to be spent to be competitive.

I think Elvis is spot on about centre forward, by the way, even without the unlikely signing of Haaland. It'll mean changing the way we play to more closely mirror the system we had in the late 2000's, but a fluid interchangeable three of Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood is a prospect I find incredibly exciting, and if the young Swedish kid Elanga keeps developing he might fit in that pattern.

Good times to be a red.
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Unless your Ron 😊

posted on 21/9/21

comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 38 minutes ago

How on Earth you can conclude that a new manager would need to spend £500m if Ole does is beyond me. Do you not pay any attention whatsoever at what is/has gone on at the club? I can only assume that you don' t if you we can't see how we are building for the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How on earth can I? Ok Ill break it down for you.

We would need to buy 2 x new strikers to replace Cavani and Ronaldo.

Pogba is going to leave on a free next year. So we will need a new left winger.

We need 2 new centre mids.

We need a new right back.

So despite spending 450 million on transfers, and having by far the biggest wage bill in the league. If a new manager came in next year or the season after, he would again have to spend similar.



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Where did you get your crystal ball from?

Pogba may or may not leave. Either way we have Rashford and Martial that are better played there. Rashford will likely take that spot.

Cavani I think will be gone in January. We've already replaced him with Ronaldo. Who could well stay for 3 years. Which gives Greenwood time to develop and perhaps Elanga too? Or maybe we sign Haaland for £68m?

VDB will hopefully become a more integral part of the team in CM and Hannibal is already pushing to be in and around the first team. He looks to be a special talent. Garner could also prove to be an option. I do think we need a top CDM though.

Right back I'm not sure about. Laird looks promising and will benefit from his Swansea loan this season. He could well make a play for the first team squad. Jurado is also highly rated, but is likely another year or two away yet.

You've said that Ole hasn't built for the future and I've shown you how incorrect that is, so you've focussed solely on the £500m that you think the new manager would need to rebuild. Completely ignoring the fact we are putting so much effort into youth to ensure that we don't have to spend as much on established players moving forwards. It's utterly bizarre and I feel you're totally out of touch with the club you support. An ill-informed teenager that wants instant gratification.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You haven't shown me anything.

You just mention young players that haven't done anything/ cannot get into the first 11.

You could say the same for every club, they all have young prospects.

You talk as though our first 11 is made up of under 25s that Ole has signed, and will be here for the next decade.

In reality the signings Ole has made that make our first 11 are Ronaldo 36 years old. Varane 28 years old, harry Maguire 28 years old, bruno 27 years old, AWB not good enough.

So no he hasn't bought for the future, he has spent huge money on transfers and safes for now. And if we dont win major trophies, it's been a disaster. I cannot think of another team who has spent so much in the last 5 years and not won anything of note.

Ronaldo, cavani, varane building for the future. Lol




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its like talking to a child with you mate. You have completely ignored all the signings that we have made at youth level or under 25 and focussed on 3 signings - one of whom is still in his peak years. You have completely ignored the changes that have been made within the club to facilitate a clearer path for academy players through to the 1st team. You have completely ignored the number of players that Ole has given debuts to. You have completely ignored the number of youth players that have been sent out on loan to help develop them.

There is no guarantee that all of the youth signings/young players signed will make it. There never is. But to say that we aren't building for the future is completely ill-informed. I mean, look at the fees we paid for Hannibal, Amad and Pellistri. Can you ever remember us paying such fees for youngsters that weren't intended for the 1stt team?

You are completely out of touch with the club you claim to support. Whether Ole can jump the final hurdle and win big trophies remains to be seen, but I am happy that he will leave the club in a much better state than he found it in.

posted on 21/9/21

comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
This is circular reasoning, Ron, it doesn't make sense. You're trying to fit an argument about recruitment to your position that you want rid of the manager.

It's been demonstrated that we have a good crop of youngsters coming through, one or two of whom look outstanding prospects, like Hannibal, one who's broken through already, Greenwood, and a scattering of very good young and youngish players. Every team needs experienced players round youngsters, but are you suggesting every we shouldn't have brought any experienced players in?

Your point that a new manager must spend £500m to be competitive seems a bit hysterical to me. I can't imagine a right back and a good holding midfielder will cost that. Even if you insist that we need a new centre forward immediately, which I disagree with, that still doesn't take us up to your mythical figure that needs to be spent to be competitive.

I think Elvis is spot on about centre forward, by the way, even without the unlikely signing of Haaland. It'll mean changing the way we play to more closely mirror the system we had in the late 2000's, but a fluid interchangeable three of Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood is a prospect I find incredibly exciting, and if the young Swedish kid Elanga keeps developing he might fit in that pattern.

Good times to be a red.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There will also be Amad and Pellistri vying for a spot in the first team. Hugill as he develops may offer us something different with his height and then there is of course McNeill, who has scored over 600 goals at youth level. And of course Shoretire, although I do wonder if he may end up playing more of an AM role.

They won't all make it at United, but certainly some promising youngsters coming through in the next few years.

posted on 21/9/21

I'd love Charlie McNeill to make it, just because he turned down a contract with them to come back to Utd.

Shoretire's really rated at the club apparently, we all know about Amad, but did you watch the pre-season games? There's definitely something about Pellistri, he looks a talent.

I wonder how Garner's getting on? It's not been a great season for Forest so far by the looks of it (might be character building)

posted on 21/9/21

comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'd love Charlie McNeill to make it, just because he turned down a contract with them to come back to Utd.

Shoretire's really rated at the club apparently, we all know about Amad, but did you watch the pre-season games? There's definitely something about Pellistri, he looks a talent.

I wonder how Garner's getting on? It's not been a great season for Forest so far by the looks of it (might be character building)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, I saw a few of the games. Pellistri looked a really interesting option. He has good close control and can carry the ball in tight situations. I think he could be useful at breaking down teams that play the low block, as he is happy to just drive at the heart of the opposition defence, which helps to create space for others. Pace alone in such instances isn't enough, but his quick footwork could be an asset. Its certainly exciting times at United in terms of the young attacking talent that we have.

If Ole does end up leaving next summer then we really have to get a coach in that will continue developing these youngsters.

posted on 21/9/21

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'd love Charlie McNeill to make it, just because he turned down a contract with them to come back to Utd.

Shoretire's really rated at the club apparently, we all know about Amad, but did you watch the pre-season games? There's definitely something about Pellistri, he looks a talent.

I wonder how Garner's getting on? It's not been a great season for Forest so far by the looks of it (might be character building)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, I saw a few of the games. Pellistri looked a really interesting option. He has good close control and can carry the ball in tight situations. I think he could be useful at breaking down teams that play the low block, as he is happy to just drive at the heart of the opposition defence, which helps to create space for others. Pace alone in such instances isn't enough, but his quick footwork could be an asset. Its certainly exciting times at United in terms of the young attacking talent that we have.

If Ole does end up leaving next summer then we really have to get a coach in that will continue developing these youngsters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree. I don't actually hold out much hope for Ole, if he doesn't start learning fast I think he'll be a gonner, so the next appointment's crucial.

It's refreshing to have a grown up conversation about these things, wonder if Ron's still lurking?

posted on 21/9/21

comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man. Ex Lion Tamer. (U1270)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'd love Charlie McNeill to make it, just because he turned down a contract with them to come back to Utd.

Shoretire's really rated at the club apparently, we all know about Amad, but did you watch the pre-season games? There's definitely something about Pellistri, he looks a talent.

I wonder how Garner's getting on? It's not been a great season for Forest so far by the looks of it (might be character building)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, I saw a few of the games. Pellistri looked a really interesting option. He has good close control and can carry the ball in tight situations. I think he could be useful at breaking down teams that play the low block, as he is happy to just drive at the heart of the opposition defence, which helps to create space for others. Pace alone in such instances isn't enough, but his quick footwork could be an asset. Its certainly exciting times at United in terms of the young attacking talent that we have.

If Ole does end up leaving next summer then we really have to get a coach in that will continue developing these youngsters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% agree. I don't actually hold out much hope for Ole, if he doesn't start learning fast I think he'll be a gonner, so the next appointment's crucial.

It's refreshing to have a grown up conversation about these things, wonder if Ron's still lurking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have always said that I am not convinced that Ole has what it takes to win the big trophies, but he has done enough for me to give him some more time.

I hate the phrase cultural reset, but I do think that is what has happened at the club. It isn't all down to Ole, but I do think that he has been the perfect manager to have in charge whilst we have undertaken the restructuring of the club at management level and in trying to create a clearer path for the academy. Because he truly has the best interests of the club at heart and fully buys into youth and the long term approach, it has meant that he has worked in unison with those involved in the restructure. He has been happy for us to spend reasonably high fees for youth players whom he might not even get the chance to actually play in the first team, because he knows that it is the right thing for the club long term. Someone like Jose or Conte isn't likely to see transfer funds spent like that as they are always more concerned with the short term and would prefer to buy ready made first teamers.

I think that Ole has perhaps been given more time by a lot of fans because of the above and because of the potential pay off. If he can improve and win those big trophies then we have a manager that could potentially stay with us for a decade or more. We will see how things pan out this season, but it could be that Ole's impact on the club is best seen after he actually leaves.

posted on 21/9/21

I meant to add that I don't think Garner has done too great so far this season. Not made a huge impact from what I have heard and obviously Houghton was sacked last week. Steve Cooper has taken over today, so we will have to see if Garner is in his plans or not. Hopefully he will be.

One other (semi) interesting article I read yesterday was regarding Pereira. Apparently he has been deployed as a second DM for Flamengo and has been playing really well.

Maybe he is the answer to our DM problems?

posted on 21/9/21



Put it out there... see if you get any takers

posted on 21/9/21

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
I meant to add that I don't think Garner has done too great so far this season. Not made a huge impact from what I have heard and obviously Houghton was sacked last week. Steve Cooper has taken over today, so we will have to see if Garner is in his plans or not. Hopefully he will be.

One other (semi) interesting article I read yesterday was regarding Pereira. Apparently he has been deployed as a second DM for Flamengo and has been playing really well.

Maybe he is the answer to our DM problems?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

he's been awful by all accounts but a change in manager like Cooper should help.

posted on 21/9/21

comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
I meant to add that I don't think Garner has done too great so far this season. Not made a huge impact from what I have heard and obviously Houghton was sacked last week. Steve Cooper has taken over today, so we will have to see if Garner is in his plans or not. Hopefully he will be.

One other (semi) interesting article I read yesterday was regarding Pereira. Apparently he has been deployed as a second DM for Flamengo and has been playing really well.

Maybe he is the answer to our DM problems?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

he's been awful by all accounts but a change in manager like Cooper should help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully. I read that he had a good game on his England U21 debut. Apparently spraying the ball about as he can, but I didn't see the game myself.

posted on 21/9/21

Didn't make the bench against Hudderfield so don't know whether he has picked up an injury.

posted on 21/9/21

Tell a lie he started!

Anyway, a much better performance say the lads in the office. They took about 3k up there which is good considering they are all miserable.

posted on 21/9/21

Big ask for a 20 year old to shine in that position in a team that's struggling.

posted on 21/9/21

He did it last year tbf.

posted on 21/9/21

Might need some time to settle back in. Perhaps a bit disappointed that Ole decided against keeping him around this season?

posted on 21/9/21

I've not watched a lot of him tbf, as watching Forest under Houghton would kill a witch.

He's not the biggest lad all round but the whole team have been playing absolute rammal until the weekend.

I am confident Cooper will at least have them playing better stuff which should play to his strengths a bit more.

posted on 21/9/21

comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
I've not watched a lot of him tbf, as watching Forest under Houghton would kill a witch.

He's not the biggest lad all round but the whole team have been playing absolute rammal until the weekend.

I am confident Cooper will at least have them playing better stuff which should play to his strengths a bit more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully. I know that he is still pretty slight, but he is 6ft 1". He could do with putting some muscle on, but he isn't shy of getting stuck in. I know that Carrick is/was mentoring him. If he can learn that positional awareness and art of intercepting that Carrick was so good at, we could have a cracking little player in our hands, as his passing is very good.

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