also, unfortunately, chelsea are a serious outfit. probably will win the league. current european champions. top manager and their squad is ridiculous.
they managed to go to anfield, play most of the game with 10 men, and not lose.... that is virtually unheard of.
they might even be the best side in europe at the moment.
the first half was good from us. condeding from a set piece was rubbish, and then a deflected goal completely killed it.
if we are being honest the game was done as soon as Kante came on and Tuchel made a tactical change, because we know that Nuno doesnt have any in game management
United didn't look fit at the end of Jose's time here, we used to concede late goals and I'm sure that had a bearing as much as sitting back did. Nuno will improve you in that area at least, then see how you do over 90 mins.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly it. To think we've accepted a 0-3 result at home is absurd. Context is everything. Chelsea are exceptional. I think we can separate the loss from the first half performance and say that if this is a process, then that first 45 is a stepping stone on that path. We're not the finished article but I think we all saw moments of promise during that time.
I think too many fans coo over a result and never really analyse a performance. There was more to be positive about in yesterday's 0-3 loss, than either of the two victories over Wolves and Watford. Both of those were fortuitous moments in an otherwise uninspiring display against teams considered beneath us. The first half yesterday saw us dominate the European champions for 45 mins, albeit without creating many true clear cut chances.
There are big issues, sure, but we need to take the positives where there are some. If the OP can't see the positive parts of yesterday then that says more about his inability to analyse a game beyond the final result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are saying i have an inability to analyse the game but 1. You are interpreting a specific point I have made about our fans reactions to my analysis of the game - this is not a game analysis.
2. You think that we "dominated" the first half. That word gets thrown around far too often. While we were good, we did not dominate. We didnt have many shots on target and Chelsea still caused us problems and looked a threat going forward.
Perhaps you need to raise your expectations
comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 16 minutes ago
also, unfortunately, chelsea are a serious outfit. probably will win the league. current european champions. top manager and their squad is ridiculous.
they managed to go to anfield, play most of the game with 10 men, and not lose.... that is virtually unheard of.
they might even be the best side in europe at the moment.
the first half was good from us. condeding from a set piece was rubbish, and then a deflected goal completely killed it.
if we are being honest the game was done as soon as Kante came on and Tuchel made a tactical change, because we know that Nuno doesnt have any in game management
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a harsh and lazy judgement.
We had no need to change things and were competing well. Chelsea were able to make a telling change and they added Kante and this allowed them to better pin us back and they rewarded by a goal after 4 minutes.
No one was crying for us to make changes at HT, and between the 1st and 2nd goal (7 minutes) we were best to try and get back to the levels of the first half. Only when the somewhat lucky 2nd goal went in did we really need to change things and we did.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I have read countless comments saying we did well and can be proud of the first 45mins.
Is it not mental that we should be coming 8th-12th though? Kane, Son, N'Dombele, Lloris, Hoijberg. These guys are top 4 standard. Even if the others are useless (which they are not, there are many top 6 players in the squad too), why is the sum of all our parts making us think 8th-12th is where we will be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SO after 5 games Nuno is supposed to have us playing greater than the sum of our parts. These things take time and after 18 months where we have not focussed on key parts of our game it is not a quick fix in changing that.
Yesterdays game was not a capitulation, it was just an even 45 minutes followed by Chelsea adapting, adding even more quality and upping their performance. We could not live with it.....is anyone surprised given the relative trajectory of the clubs? and this is not accepting mediocrity, this is acknowledging the circumstances of each club. They are in a different place right now. I had many greater concerns from our Palace game than this one.
Why do people view or current situation any different from when Poch arrived. Poor time under AVB, a slightly crazy period under caretaker Sherwood, then Poch steps in and starts to move us forward.
After his 5 games we had 7 points. Judge Poch at that point?
The more important tests will come and the NLD is a massive one for us on many levels, not least because Arsenal could well be in the mix with us in the top 6.
People need to reign in expectations and judge from a more realistic and considered starting point. This is not to accept mediocrity but to understand you do not go from being poorly managed and average to well-oiled winning machine over night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but it was a capitulation. Chelsea were not in full flow and eased off and yet still could have scored far more goals. They became very profligate.
So are you saying basically that due to Chelsea having more quality and that if they play to their strengths then they should beat us by 3 goals in just 45 mins and we should be ok with it because we are on different trajectories?
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
Nobody thinks it’s acceptable!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you ever have more to offer comments or even your own articles than one liners, emojis and asking other people their thoughts?
comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 29 minutes ago
Reading through a few articles and I am shocked by how many fans are happy to accept a 0-3 drumming at home simply because we played well for 45mins. The game is 90mins! Unbelievable. Chelsea are not going to win every game 3-0 - other teams with weaker players will put up more of a fight.
How has it got so bad that we are now ok with this?
-------------
any realistic fan knows that we are light years behind chelsea at the moment. there is also very little we can do about it at this precise moment in time, so we have no choice but to accept it. however, the main worry for most spurs fans seems to have been the negative line ups and style and at least for 45 mins we named a positive side and played with some intent to actually have the ball and press.
Nuno now needs to work on making that 45mins last 90 mins... we will need a higher fitness level to start with...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, i was far far happier at our attempt to be more progressive yesterday and the line up. However ultimately it is still not good enough. Unless we are a relegation candidate i could not accept losing 0-3 at home to anyone
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
Devon - sorry mate but it absolutely was a capitulation. We went from being the better team first half to being comprehensively outplayed, losing 3-0 and the manager and players visibly giving up. Chelsea started the second half stronger and were quickly rewarded with a goal due to our weak defending at a set piece. From then on we never looked in the game, apart from a brief spell after the second went in where we looked to rally a bit - but at that point Nuno himself threw the towel in with his subs that handed the initiative back to Chelsea. After that it could’ve been 4 or 5 nil with the chances Werner and Lukaku had, we were under siege and defending last ditch style.
Small positives maybe, mitigation maybe, but don’t delude yourself that it wasn’t a capitulation from the team and manager at the first sign of adversity in what had til that point been a decent performance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will have to disagree with you on this.
Chelsea have absolute quality and were better able to impose themselves on the game when bringing Kante on.
The corner is poor defending....that is not a capitulation. Capitulation is a mental thing and from what I saw from my seat was no lack of effort, no giving up. Yes we did not have the quality to respond to Chelsea when they upped their game but i simply do not think we have the tools right now. Not just the players, but the coaching, the ability to wrestle control of a game back. Its not so much mental weakness (although that has always been there with us even at our best, its more a case of not knowing how to get back into the game. This comes in part from Jose who had us so passive we just took it from the opponents and looked to counter attack. We need to relearn how to control games - we even saw this vs Rennes. In total control then lost it then they scored, then they scored again. Its confidence, its coaching and its mentality. All these things need working on.
Who knows if Nuno can do this. Is he good enough? can he inspire us? Time will tell but for me there was no sign of a lack of effort in that game, just a lack of quality.
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I have read countless comments saying we did well and can be proud of the first 45mins.
Is it not mental that we should be coming 8th-12th though? Kane, Son, N'Dombele, Lloris, Hoijberg. These guys are top 4 standard. Even if the others are useless (which they are not, there are many top 6 players in the squad too), why is the sum of all our parts making us think 8th-12th is where we will be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SO after 5 games Nuno is supposed to have us playing greater than the sum of our parts. These things take time and after 18 months where we have not focussed on key parts of our game it is not a quick fix in changing that.
Yesterdays game was not a capitulation, it was just an even 45 minutes followed by Chelsea adapting, adding even more quality and upping their performance. We could not live with it.....is anyone surprised given the relative trajectory of the clubs? and this is not accepting mediocrity, this is acknowledging the circumstances of each club. They are in a different place right now. I had many greater concerns from our Palace game than this one.
Why do people view or current situation any different from when Poch arrived. Poor time under AVB, a slightly crazy period under caretaker Sherwood, then Poch steps in and starts to move us forward.
After his 5 games we had 7 points. Judge Poch at that point?
The more important tests will come and the NLD is a massive one for us on many levels, not least because Arsenal could well be in the mix with us in the top 6.
People need to reign in expectations and judge from a more realistic and considered starting point. This is not to accept mediocrity but to understand you do not go from being poorly managed and average to well-oiled winning machine over night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but it was a capitulation. Chelsea were not in full flow and eased off and yet still could have scored far more goals. They became very profligate.
So are you saying basically that due to Chelsea having more quality and that if they play to their strengths then they should beat us by 3 goals in just 45 mins and we should be ok with it because we are on different trajectories?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. But my assessment goes beyond "losing 3-0 at home is unacceptable".
After going 2-0 Chelsea were able to ease off and try and pick us off. They managed the game very well from there, had numbers back and sprang counter attacks with more freedom as we tried to get back into the game....Its a standard play and they delivered very well.
They brought on Kante, a player who walks into any midfield in world football. They didnt bother with Chilwell, Ziyech, Pulisic, and they gave Werner a run around to extend us on the couner attack with his pace and movement. If you cannot see the chasm in the quality of our 2 squads and see that as any sort of contributing factor in Chelsea being able to change their game and tactics to take control and then protect what they got, then theres no point in me trying to explain it.
Ask yourself how we manage to beat teams by a big margin - usually because we are better, stronger and deliver on the day. No one accepts 3-0 home defeats but sometimes you just get beat by the better team. and Chelsea are a top quality team and for me will win the league. I hate this. I hated listening to those smug tw@ts lauding it over us. Hated it. But this does not cloud my assessment of the game.
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
The third goal was an act of capitulation. But we'd given it a good go up until that point I felt. Chelsea can bring Kante off the bench FFS. They're competing with City. United and Liverpool as outsiders.
We're competing with the chasing pack whether we like it or not, and that's not because of the manager. It's the squad. Conte knew full well this lot wouldn't compete at the top without serious investment. We can bore on about what could've been and how different owners would've won us the CL, but that's the reality.
I'm not sure what he could do tactically to counter them bringing Kante. Maybe Skipp immediately? I do get the frustration that we didn't react, but then there's credit to not reacting to everything the opposition does immediately. Poch rarely changed things up in game and this was often viewed as having a belief in his vision etc. Mourinho was quick to make changes and got pilloried for not getting it right at kickoff. If you like them, they get the benefit of the doubt. If you don't whatever they do is wrong.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Bryãn's left boot (U22081)
posted 24 minutes ago
The third goal was an act of capitulation. But we'd given it a good go up until that point I felt. Chelsea can bring Kante off the bench FFS. They're competing with City. United and Liverpool as outsiders.
We're competing with the chasing pack whether we like it or not, and that's not because of the manager. It's the squad. Conte knew full well this lot wouldn't compete at the top without serious investment. We can bore on about what could've been and how different owners would've won us the CL, but that's the reality.
I'm not sure what he could do tactically to counter them bringing Kante. Maybe Skipp immediately? I do get the frustration that we didn't react, but then there's credit to not reacting to everything the opposition does immediately. Poch rarely changed things up in game and this was often viewed as having a belief in his vision etc. Mourinho was quick to make changes and got pilloried for not getting it right at kickoff. If you like them, they get the benefit of the doubt. If you don't whatever they do is wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are not better than them then you either have to tactically out think them or drag them down to your level and out scrap them.
Give me a modern player with the mindset of a Perryman or Roberts with the natural ability of Ndombele.
Levy is to blame, it all leads back to him.
the addition of one player shouldn’t be enough to sway the game from us playing well and being in it to us getting smashed 3-0 and being totally bossed for 45 mins. Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good.
---
While I take your point here, I was kinda using him as am illustration of how far ahead of us they are. Sure he's not that great on his own but they're the tools Tuchel has. Nuno had Gil and Skipp to bring on. A handful of PL games between them.
It's like blaming a featherweight for not doing enough to out smart Mike Tyson. Obviously an extreme example, but I'm sure you get my point.
Of course we're all frustrated at how the game ended but all this 'Nuno no plan B' was what I was reacting to. Plan A was it in this scenario, we were only getting weaker. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the players for giving up, either. Like I said, I thought there was effort and application all round until the last few minutes. We just weren't getting anywhere with it. They shut down Royal, Kane didn't do enough when he did get the ball.. there's a bunch of factors that are much more nuanced than 'the manager failed and the players gave up'. Starting with understanding the team we were up against.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 6 minutes ago
How is it that this was so obviously a Spurs thread without even opening it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have to give the guy some credit. That is pretty funny.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers fridge
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 30 minutes ago
Chelsea have quality of course but we had Lloris a WC winning keeper, a £50m CB in Romero, Ndombele, Son and Kane two of the best forwards in the league - it’s not like we’re Sheffield Utd here, the addition of one player shouldn’t be enough to sway the game from us playing well and being in it to us getting smashed 3-0 and being totally bossed for 45 mins. Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good. The fact is we conceded that early goal, conceded territory and then just accepted defeat. Footballers will always run around and chase a ball, that doesn’t constitute not capitulating; there was no press, no tenacity, we went from winning every second ball to losing every second ball, our forward play was insipid and we were living by the seat of our pants at the back just to keep the score respectable. And all because we mentally cracked at conceding two goals.
I’ve already said there were some crumbs of comfort, but nonetheless in my eyes it was a capitulation, mentally. Both from the players who totally lost any control of the game, and from the manager who threw on an extra DM when we were losing, which is the equivalent of a corner man slinging the white towel into the ring when his fighter’s in bother on the ropes.
Where we go from here fack knows, back to back 3-0 defeats and the poxy EFL Cup to deal with midweek. Kids and reserves for me, focus the main players on the NLD because if we lose that with another poor performance then Nuno is gonna be on the ropes himself already I’m telling you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been saying to mates of mine for a while that Chelsea are an almost impossible team to play against. With 3 at the back and the 2 solids in front they always have number back. With the wing backs adding width and getting forward, Havertz and another behind Lukaku they always have numbers forward and a physical presence. Their Cbs can also step out and join in.
They are extremely well set up, play a very effective game and have almost perfect players in every position to play this, with numerous options on the bench to change it up.
Adding Kante to that midfield, is just 1 player but it changed it massively. His energy saw them press us more effectively, saw them win the ball back and pin us in our half far more effectively. That lead to early pressure a series of corners and their goal 1. The second was just lucky but that gave them the ability to then retreat, which they did. Let us come on to them and then look to exploit the spaces as we tried to get back in. But in a 5-4-1 without the ball, it was so hard for us to make any progress.
I will not be too hard on the players as i could see the effort, the running. It was not lacking but you could see they were soul destroyed by how almost impossible it was to try and break that chelsea team down. That is natural.
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely Daniel Levy would be happier out of it as well
Nobody is happy about losing 3-0 to Chelsea at home. If I'm accepting anything it's that we are miles behind them lot and the others thanks to how shiiit the club has been run in the last few years.
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 3 hours, 30 minutes ago
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won't happen while the club brings in money.....
Unless Lewis dies.
Then there will be a shake up.
Just hope we are still in the Premiership when it happens!
I'm just passed giving a to55 about us winning and losing now. Let's face facts we're an average team now with an owner who's only interest is lining there own pockets.
The only way we will compete with the better clubs is to have new owners whom don't giva a fack about splashing out on better players.
Levy struck gold with Pochettino and at the first sign of trouble he pulled the trigger.
Do you think Poch would still be there now EEH if he hadn't been sacked
"Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good"
He actually is that good. He made the difference in midfield and is the reason Chelsea were winning second balls and possession. Had he not been injured he would no doubt be starting. His injuries are being carefully managed which is pleasing.
We dont just accept, but we do need to show Nuno patience and give him a fair chance to get the most out of a squad that is weaker than Chelseas. COYS
comment by Kane u down the lane (U21914)
posted 5 minutes ago
We dont just accept, but we do need to show Nuno patience and give him a fair chance to get the most out of a squad that is weaker than Chelseas. COYS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Acceptance of mediocrity
Page 2 of 3
posted on 20/9/21
also, unfortunately, chelsea are a serious outfit. probably will win the league. current european champions. top manager and their squad is ridiculous.
they managed to go to anfield, play most of the game with 10 men, and not lose.... that is virtually unheard of.
they might even be the best side in europe at the moment.
the first half was good from us. condeding from a set piece was rubbish, and then a deflected goal completely killed it.
if we are being honest the game was done as soon as Kante came on and Tuchel made a tactical change, because we know that Nuno doesnt have any in game management
posted on 20/9/21
United didn't look fit at the end of Jose's time here, we used to concede late goals and I'm sure that had a bearing as much as sitting back did. Nuno will improve you in that area at least, then see how you do over 90 mins.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly it. To think we've accepted a 0-3 result at home is absurd. Context is everything. Chelsea are exceptional. I think we can separate the loss from the first half performance and say that if this is a process, then that first 45 is a stepping stone on that path. We're not the finished article but I think we all saw moments of promise during that time.
I think too many fans coo over a result and never really analyse a performance. There was more to be positive about in yesterday's 0-3 loss, than either of the two victories over Wolves and Watford. Both of those were fortuitous moments in an otherwise uninspiring display against teams considered beneath us. The first half yesterday saw us dominate the European champions for 45 mins, albeit without creating many true clear cut chances.
There are big issues, sure, but we need to take the positives where there are some. If the OP can't see the positive parts of yesterday then that says more about his inability to analyse a game beyond the final result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are saying i have an inability to analyse the game but 1. You are interpreting a specific point I have made about our fans reactions to my analysis of the game - this is not a game analysis.
2. You think that we "dominated" the first half. That word gets thrown around far too often. While we were good, we did not dominate. We didnt have many shots on target and Chelsea still caused us problems and looked a threat going forward.
Perhaps you need to raise your expectations
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 16 minutes ago
also, unfortunately, chelsea are a serious outfit. probably will win the league. current european champions. top manager and their squad is ridiculous.
they managed to go to anfield, play most of the game with 10 men, and not lose.... that is virtually unheard of.
they might even be the best side in europe at the moment.
the first half was good from us. condeding from a set piece was rubbish, and then a deflected goal completely killed it.
if we are being honest the game was done as soon as Kante came on and Tuchel made a tactical change, because we know that Nuno doesnt have any in game management
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a harsh and lazy judgement.
We had no need to change things and were competing well. Chelsea were able to make a telling change and they added Kante and this allowed them to better pin us back and they rewarded by a goal after 4 minutes.
No one was crying for us to make changes at HT, and between the 1st and 2nd goal (7 minutes) we were best to try and get back to the levels of the first half. Only when the somewhat lucky 2nd goal went in did we really need to change things and we did.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I have read countless comments saying we did well and can be proud of the first 45mins.
Is it not mental that we should be coming 8th-12th though? Kane, Son, N'Dombele, Lloris, Hoijberg. These guys are top 4 standard. Even if the others are useless (which they are not, there are many top 6 players in the squad too), why is the sum of all our parts making us think 8th-12th is where we will be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SO after 5 games Nuno is supposed to have us playing greater than the sum of our parts. These things take time and after 18 months where we have not focussed on key parts of our game it is not a quick fix in changing that.
Yesterdays game was not a capitulation, it was just an even 45 minutes followed by Chelsea adapting, adding even more quality and upping their performance. We could not live with it.....is anyone surprised given the relative trajectory of the clubs? and this is not accepting mediocrity, this is acknowledging the circumstances of each club. They are in a different place right now. I had many greater concerns from our Palace game than this one.
Why do people view or current situation any different from when Poch arrived. Poor time under AVB, a slightly crazy period under caretaker Sherwood, then Poch steps in and starts to move us forward.
After his 5 games we had 7 points. Judge Poch at that point?
The more important tests will come and the NLD is a massive one for us on many levels, not least because Arsenal could well be in the mix with us in the top 6.
People need to reign in expectations and judge from a more realistic and considered starting point. This is not to accept mediocrity but to understand you do not go from being poorly managed and average to well-oiled winning machine over night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but it was a capitulation. Chelsea were not in full flow and eased off and yet still could have scored far more goals. They became very profligate.
So are you saying basically that due to Chelsea having more quality and that if they play to their strengths then they should beat us by 3 goals in just 45 mins and we should be ok with it because we are on different trajectories?
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
Nobody thinks it’s acceptable!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you ever have more to offer comments or even your own articles than one liners, emojis and asking other people their thoughts?
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Tottenham Chronic (U3423)
posted 29 minutes ago
Reading through a few articles and I am shocked by how many fans are happy to accept a 0-3 drumming at home simply because we played well for 45mins. The game is 90mins! Unbelievable. Chelsea are not going to win every game 3-0 - other teams with weaker players will put up more of a fight.
How has it got so bad that we are now ok with this?
-------------
any realistic fan knows that we are light years behind chelsea at the moment. there is also very little we can do about it at this precise moment in time, so we have no choice but to accept it. however, the main worry for most spurs fans seems to have been the negative line ups and style and at least for 45 mins we named a positive side and played with some intent to actually have the ball and press.
Nuno now needs to work on making that 45mins last 90 mins... we will need a higher fitness level to start with...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, i was far far happier at our attempt to be more progressive yesterday and the line up. However ultimately it is still not good enough. Unless we are a relegation candidate i could not accept losing 0-3 at home to anyone
posted on 20/9/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
Devon - sorry mate but it absolutely was a capitulation. We went from being the better team first half to being comprehensively outplayed, losing 3-0 and the manager and players visibly giving up. Chelsea started the second half stronger and were quickly rewarded with a goal due to our weak defending at a set piece. From then on we never looked in the game, apart from a brief spell after the second went in where we looked to rally a bit - but at that point Nuno himself threw the towel in with his subs that handed the initiative back to Chelsea. After that it could’ve been 4 or 5 nil with the chances Werner and Lukaku had, we were under siege and defending last ditch style.
Small positives maybe, mitigation maybe, but don’t delude yourself that it wasn’t a capitulation from the team and manager at the first sign of adversity in what had til that point been a decent performance.
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Will have to disagree with you on this.
Chelsea have absolute quality and were better able to impose themselves on the game when bringing Kante on.
The corner is poor defending....that is not a capitulation. Capitulation is a mental thing and from what I saw from my seat was no lack of effort, no giving up. Yes we did not have the quality to respond to Chelsea when they upped their game but i simply do not think we have the tools right now. Not just the players, but the coaching, the ability to wrestle control of a game back. Its not so much mental weakness (although that has always been there with us even at our best, its more a case of not knowing how to get back into the game. This comes in part from Jose who had us so passive we just took it from the opponents and looked to counter attack. We need to relearn how to control games - we even saw this vs Rennes. In total control then lost it then they scored, then they scored again. Its confidence, its coaching and its mentality. All these things need working on.
Who knows if Nuno can do this. Is he good enough? can he inspire us? Time will tell but for me there was no sign of a lack of effort in that game, just a lack of quality.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by Anne is ruled out on medical grounds (U8366)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 12 minutes ago
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say it’s acceptable. I did an article saying there at least some small positives in the intent of Nunos set up and the first half effort before the shocking capitulation. Could be classed as looking for crumbs if comfort perhaps, but certainly not an acceptance of what’s going on, far from it. I’m deeply concerned by how average and thin our squad is, how we are not creating or scoring at all, and how Nuno is largely getting it all wrong before and during games.
I think we’ll finish between 8th and 12th with no trophy as usual, and that Nuno will not be our head coach at the start of next season. There’s very little to be optimistic about right now.
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Well I have read countless comments saying we did well and can be proud of the first 45mins.
Is it not mental that we should be coming 8th-12th though? Kane, Son, N'Dombele, Lloris, Hoijberg. These guys are top 4 standard. Even if the others are useless (which they are not, there are many top 6 players in the squad too), why is the sum of all our parts making us think 8th-12th is where we will be?
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SO after 5 games Nuno is supposed to have us playing greater than the sum of our parts. These things take time and after 18 months where we have not focussed on key parts of our game it is not a quick fix in changing that.
Yesterdays game was not a capitulation, it was just an even 45 minutes followed by Chelsea adapting, adding even more quality and upping their performance. We could not live with it.....is anyone surprised given the relative trajectory of the clubs? and this is not accepting mediocrity, this is acknowledging the circumstances of each club. They are in a different place right now. I had many greater concerns from our Palace game than this one.
Why do people view or current situation any different from when Poch arrived. Poor time under AVB, a slightly crazy period under caretaker Sherwood, then Poch steps in and starts to move us forward.
After his 5 games we had 7 points. Judge Poch at that point?
The more important tests will come and the NLD is a massive one for us on many levels, not least because Arsenal could well be in the mix with us in the top 6.
People need to reign in expectations and judge from a more realistic and considered starting point. This is not to accept mediocrity but to understand you do not go from being poorly managed and average to well-oiled winning machine over night.
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Sorry but it was a capitulation. Chelsea were not in full flow and eased off and yet still could have scored far more goals. They became very profligate.
So are you saying basically that due to Chelsea having more quality and that if they play to their strengths then they should beat us by 3 goals in just 45 mins and we should be ok with it because we are on different trajectories?
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No. But my assessment goes beyond "losing 3-0 at home is unacceptable".
After going 2-0 Chelsea were able to ease off and try and pick us off. They managed the game very well from there, had numbers back and sprang counter attacks with more freedom as we tried to get back into the game....Its a standard play and they delivered very well.
They brought on Kante, a player who walks into any midfield in world football. They didnt bother with Chilwell, Ziyech, Pulisic, and they gave Werner a run around to extend us on the couner attack with his pace and movement. If you cannot see the chasm in the quality of our 2 squads and see that as any sort of contributing factor in Chelsea being able to change their game and tactics to take control and then protect what they got, then theres no point in me trying to explain it.
Ask yourself how we manage to beat teams by a big margin - usually because we are better, stronger and deliver on the day. No one accepts 3-0 home defeats but sometimes you just get beat by the better team. and Chelsea are a top quality team and for me will win the league. I hate this. I hated listening to those smug tw@ts lauding it over us. Hated it. But this does not cloud my assessment of the game.
posted on 20/9/21
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
posted on 20/9/21
The third goal was an act of capitulation. But we'd given it a good go up until that point I felt. Chelsea can bring Kante off the bench FFS. They're competing with City. United and Liverpool as outsiders.
We're competing with the chasing pack whether we like it or not, and that's not because of the manager. It's the squad. Conte knew full well this lot wouldn't compete at the top without serious investment. We can bore on about what could've been and how different owners would've won us the CL, but that's the reality.
I'm not sure what he could do tactically to counter them bringing Kante. Maybe Skipp immediately? I do get the frustration that we didn't react, but then there's credit to not reacting to everything the opposition does immediately. Poch rarely changed things up in game and this was often viewed as having a belief in his vision etc. Mourinho was quick to make changes and got pilloried for not getting it right at kickoff. If you like them, they get the benefit of the doubt. If you don't whatever they do is wrong.
posted on 20/9/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Bryãn's left boot (U22081)
posted 24 minutes ago
The third goal was an act of capitulation. But we'd given it a good go up until that point I felt. Chelsea can bring Kante off the bench FFS. They're competing with City. United and Liverpool as outsiders.
We're competing with the chasing pack whether we like it or not, and that's not because of the manager. It's the squad. Conte knew full well this lot wouldn't compete at the top without serious investment. We can bore on about what could've been and how different owners would've won us the CL, but that's the reality.
I'm not sure what he could do tactically to counter them bringing Kante. Maybe Skipp immediately? I do get the frustration that we didn't react, but then there's credit to not reacting to everything the opposition does immediately. Poch rarely changed things up in game and this was often viewed as having a belief in his vision etc. Mourinho was quick to make changes and got pilloried for not getting it right at kickoff. If you like them, they get the benefit of the doubt. If you don't whatever they do is wrong.
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If you are not better than them then you either have to tactically out think them or drag them down to your level and out scrap them.
Give me a modern player with the mindset of a Perryman or Roberts with the natural ability of Ndombele.
Levy is to blame, it all leads back to him.
posted on 20/9/21
the addition of one player shouldn’t be enough to sway the game from us playing well and being in it to us getting smashed 3-0 and being totally bossed for 45 mins. Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good.
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While I take your point here, I was kinda using him as am illustration of how far ahead of us they are. Sure he's not that great on his own but they're the tools Tuchel has. Nuno had Gil and Skipp to bring on. A handful of PL games between them.
It's like blaming a featherweight for not doing enough to out smart Mike Tyson. Obviously an extreme example, but I'm sure you get my point.
Of course we're all frustrated at how the game ended but all this 'Nuno no plan B' was what I was reacting to. Plan A was it in this scenario, we were only getting weaker. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the players for giving up, either. Like I said, I thought there was effort and application all round until the last few minutes. We just weren't getting anywhere with it. They shut down Royal, Kane didn't do enough when he did get the ball.. there's a bunch of factors that are much more nuanced than 'the manager failed and the players gave up'. Starting with understanding the team we were up against.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 6 minutes ago
How is it that this was so obviously a Spurs thread without even opening it...
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We have to give the guy some credit. That is pretty funny.
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Cheers fridge
posted on 20/9/21
comment by Ace (U22467)
posted 30 minutes ago
Chelsea have quality of course but we had Lloris a WC winning keeper, a £50m CB in Romero, Ndombele, Son and Kane two of the best forwards in the league - it’s not like we’re Sheffield Utd here, the addition of one player shouldn’t be enough to sway the game from us playing well and being in it to us getting smashed 3-0 and being totally bossed for 45 mins. Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good. The fact is we conceded that early goal, conceded territory and then just accepted defeat. Footballers will always run around and chase a ball, that doesn’t constitute not capitulating; there was no press, no tenacity, we went from winning every second ball to losing every second ball, our forward play was insipid and we were living by the seat of our pants at the back just to keep the score respectable. And all because we mentally cracked at conceding two goals.
I’ve already said there were some crumbs of comfort, but nonetheless in my eyes it was a capitulation, mentally. Both from the players who totally lost any control of the game, and from the manager who threw on an extra DM when we were losing, which is the equivalent of a corner man slinging the white towel into the ring when his fighter’s in bother on the ropes.
Where we go from here fack knows, back to back 3-0 defeats and the poxy EFL Cup to deal with midweek. Kids and reserves for me, focus the main players on the NLD because if we lose that with another poor performance then Nuno is gonna be on the ropes himself already I’m telling you.
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I have been saying to mates of mine for a while that Chelsea are an almost impossible team to play against. With 3 at the back and the 2 solids in front they always have number back. With the wing backs adding width and getting forward, Havertz and another behind Lukaku they always have numbers forward and a physical presence. Their Cbs can also step out and join in.
They are extremely well set up, play a very effective game and have almost perfect players in every position to play this, with numerous options on the bench to change it up.
Adding Kante to that midfield, is just 1 player but it changed it massively. His energy saw them press us more effectively, saw them win the ball back and pin us in our half far more effectively. That lead to early pressure a series of corners and their goal 1. The second was just lucky but that gave them the ability to then retreat, which they did. Let us come on to them and then look to exploit the spaces as we tried to get back in. But in a 5-4-1 without the ball, it was so hard for us to make any progress.
I will not be too hard on the players as i could see the effort, the running. It was not lacking but you could see they were soul destroyed by how almost impossible it was to try and break that chelsea team down. That is natural.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
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Surely Daniel Levy would be happier out of it as well
posted on 20/9/21
Nobody is happy about losing 3-0 to Chelsea at home. If I'm accepting anything it's that we are miles behind them lot and the others thanks to how shiiit the club has been run in the last few years.
posted on 20/9/21
comment by ● Billy The Yidd ● 2020* 2021* ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 3 hours, 30 minutes ago
This is what 20 years of ENIC and Levy has done to people, they now have Stockholm Syndrome and think that things can not operate on a different level for Spurs.
Jesus Christ, this club needs new owners.
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Won't happen while the club brings in money.....
Unless Lewis dies.
Then there will be a shake up.
Just hope we are still in the Premiership when it happens!
posted on 21/9/21
I'm just passed giving a to55 about us winning and losing now. Let's face facts we're an average team now with an owner who's only interest is lining there own pockets.
The only way we will compete with the better clubs is to have new owners whom don't giva a fack about splashing out on better players.
Levy struck gold with Pochettino and at the first sign of trouble he pulled the trigger.
posted on 21/9/21
Do you think Poch would still be there now EEH if he hadn't been sacked
posted on 21/9/21
"Kantes good but he’s not that bloody good"
He actually is that good. He made the difference in midfield and is the reason Chelsea were winning second balls and possession. Had he not been injured he would no doubt be starting. His injuries are being carefully managed which is pleasing.
posted on 21/9/21
We dont just accept, but we do need to show Nuno patience and give him a fair chance to get the most out of a squad that is weaker than Chelseas. COYS
posted on 21/9/21
comment by Kane u down the lane (U21914)
posted 5 minutes ago
We dont just accept, but we do need to show Nuno patience and give him a fair chance to get the most out of a squad that is weaker than Chelseas. COYS
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