Maybe I'm generalising but it seems most asian families try to get their children into more professional careers while those that are into sport are probably more into Cricket. Although saying that whenever I play with friends on 4G pitches there are loads of south Asian kids playing as well.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe I'm generalising but it seems most asian families try to get their children into more professional careers while those that are into sport are probably more into Cricket. Although saying that whenever I play with friends on 4G pitches there are loads of south Asian kids playing as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
at school we had a very good team and we had one asian lad who probably stood out above everyone else and could have made it as a pro.
his parents however would not support this as they were pushing him to become a doctor ( which he has)
It’s been well documented and an issue for years. Whether it’s parents pushing kids into another career or background or coaches generally viewing Asian players as less skilled or weaker, they’ve never been given the chance.
Still think there’s an air of racial profiling when academies pick their players. I think there was a documentary a couple years back on this topic.
Hopefully more South Asian players get the opportunity in the near future as views are changing
As a British Asian myself, there are a number of factors but I'd say for the 1st and 2nd generation, its got to to with family expectations and up bringing. Most Asian parents expect their children to go into a respectable profession, be it Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer etc and that's drilled onto them at a young age. They see football more of a pass time activity, same could be said for Chinese. They don't see a footballer as a profession to make a career out of.
A lot of my Asian friends love football, way more than cricket actually. I've got friends that play in Sunday league and are very good players, technically brilliant, maybe not physically though and that goes back to the issue we've had for decades in this country, always going for the big powerful lad rather than the more smaller technical one, seems to be changing now so who knows, may get more Asians break through. Us Asians aren't generally big, tall and physically imposing like the English or Northern Europeans.
Down to the parents. We will see more Asians coming through over time
Lads I grew up with dropped football pretty early on in their teens and there was more of an academic focus. Will likely see it change as generations change but it's going to be a bit behind. When I lived in Egypt it wasn't even a thing, all of the focus was on exams and results.
I think it's just been said in the OP, cultural differences and football just not being the main sport in that region of the world. Family probably links in with the cultural differences.
I've never been over to any parts of Asia, but I know a few people who have and they have told stories that do make you realise it's a different world over there entirely. Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
------------------------------
Don't know what parts of Asia you're talking about but for South Asian countries at least that isn't true at all. If anything you see far more kids roaming the streets than you would in Western Countries. As has been mentioned though its usually cricket rather than football they're playing.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 3 minutes ago
Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
------------------------------
Don't know what parts of Asia you're talking about but for South Asian countries at least that isn't true at all. If anything you see far more kids roaming the streets than you would in Western Countries. As has been mentioned though its usually cricket rather than football they're playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it's not true for all areas, just a few areas of China, Taiwan, Iran etc where I've heard stories of the quality of the areas are woeful for people.
Whether that's the "norm" in those countries is a different thing entirely though, as every country has it's deprived/unsafe area.
Preferring Cricket is a very poor cliche. Asian kids don't like cricket unless your dad/mum is from SouthAsia but now we are in 3rd generation and they all like football. Also encouraged to play football by parents.
Education is not a barrier either. You can do both unlike in the past.
There are some good Asian kids but they are not getting picked.
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
why do people think the % is so low?
========
Because they're playing cricket.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 0 seconds ago
why do people think the % is so low?
========
Because they're playing cricket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, just seen Kash's comment.
Just what I see on the fields around Nottingham and then what I see down at things like power league.
Figured it was that but maybe not then.
Asians still love cricket over here. Very close to football especially my neck of the woods
Dad - Loved cricket
Me - Loved football but also played cricket
Kids - Love football, Fifa but get bored when they play or watch cricket.
There doesn’t seem to that many top Asian players in general.
Can’t ever remember an Asian being a top 10 in the world player for instance.
Son is probably the best I’ve seen.
Kagawa, Nakamura, Minamino. The guy at Wolves looks good.
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 3 minutes ago
Kagawa, Nakamura, Minamino. The guy at Wolves looks good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ya decent players but not elite.
This is an issue close to my heart. And something I briefly looked into a few years back.
Reading some of the responses, it's fair to say we hear some of them a lot. However some may have been true many years back but are not as true as people think.
Yes cricket was a favourite amongst south Asian kids in the late 70's and into the 80's however there wasn't many Asian kids coming through the set ups into county or international cricket even then. That number has got better in the county circuit and we have had the likes of Moin make it into the England set up.
The problems/issues in football seem to be the same as it was for cricket. And for me it isn't about the parents wanting kids in certain professions that is the main issue. Parents do want kids into those professions but it's more about thinking "well you won't get in so may as well focus on something you can do". This is usually based on conversation like this one, but that have been going on for years without any major break throughs in football.
Football is THE number one sport these days. I've had friends who made it to teams like Stoke City and iirc Oldham. Very good players too but never seemed to get past stage one. One left completely and one went to Pakistan and played for Pakistan for a bit but wasn't financially beneficial.
The guy at Stoke maintains he faced a lot of racism whilst there. As someone said there are black players who have made it but he insists the racism for the Asian guy even comes from the black players. Obviously I can't say if he is telling the truth or just bitter.
I myself loved cricket as a kid. I was very good too. I was the fastest bowler at our school but only made the team initially as I agreed to wicket keep. By the tile I was at uni I was opening the bowling for the team. I did get injuries that prevented me going pro but always felt support at school would have helped me get into pro cricket earlier and maybe the medical attention too.
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 30 minutes ago
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of valid comments throughout this discussion make it clear there's a mixture of factors at play, including cultural pressure from families to focus on education and a guarantee of a good career.
However, when it comes to perceptions of Asians on the part of youth coaches from grassroots level upward, I think it's quite possible for unconscious bias to play a role without any racist intentions. The human brain forms a sense of "what something looks like" based on previous experience. So "what a good footballer looks like" will be informed by what the good footballers of the past looked like - not just racially: there have been all sorts of stereotypes about the body shape, etc. of an ideal footballer / winger / centre back. Most of us thought that Peter Crouch 'doesn't look like a footballer' when we first saw him. Lots of people thought Modric looked too slight to be a top class central midfielder. But these things can take on racial aspects. I remember around 20 years ago it was pointed out that if you were a talented black footballer, coaches would tend to channel you into playing as a centre back or a striker, i.e. to perceive pace and physicality as your key attributes, rather than the vision and creativity you may need as a midfielder. And indeed, at a time when there were plenty of black players in British football, but a small % of them playing as number 10s or passing midfielders. Many notable players have emerged who have destroyed that stereotype - Rocastle, Vieira, Pogba - and I'd guess that preconception has waned over time.
In the same way, south Asian players don't 'look like footballers' to the primitive zones of the brain than scan for familiar associations. I guess our cognitive limitations has played a bit of a role here, and of course that also seeps into broader cultural attitudes. I think it's only a matter of time before positive recruitment policies and talented individuals demonstrate that there's no inherent ceiling to the level an Asian player can reach in the sport.
I could play back in the days and I remember Bradford City had this open day for Asian players. Loads of PR, coverage etc. Me and mate got picked from our team to go and it was bolllocks.
I had my full Liverpool kit on and they made us play 5 a side for 10 mins. No one watched us and then we got a cheap medal and a dodgy certificate and then we went home.
I also had trials at Hudderfield and the coach who rejected me said I was too greedy with the ball.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 15 minutes ago
I also had trials at Hudderfield and the coach who rejected me said I was too dedicated to posting first on every man utd article on Ja606
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats a shame
The parents just lie waiting for the Asian kid to fack up (which happens all the time), then gaslight the kid into thinking they're not good enough for "physical" jobs, and push them into "decent" jobs like being a doctor. Asian parents are always trapping their kids into becoming "settled" because of their own immigrant insecurities. To enact this, they use a whole bunch of techniques and tricks to not let the kid play. They have good intentions though.
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 5 minutes ago
The parents just lie waiting for the Asian kid to fack up (which happens all the time), then gaslight the kid into thinking they're not good enough for "physical" jobs, and push them into "decent" jobs like being a doctor. Asian parents are always trapping their kids into becoming "settled" because of their own immigrant insecurities. To enact this, they use a whole bunch of techniques and tricks to not let the kid play. They have good intentions though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a lot of parents who are in professional jobs already or are but have middle class aspirations for their family have the same attitude when it comes to their kids, regardless of race. My boys are decent footballers at youth level and I encourage that, help out at the local club, etc. But if they got into the academy system I'd look at the statistical probability of them attaining the dream of playing professional football and strongly encourage them to focus on their education. Professional footballers disproportionately come from backgrounds where families perceive their wider career opportunities have a ceiling.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 30 minutes ago
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of valid comments throughout this discussion make it clear there's a mixture of factors at play, including cultural pressure from families to focus on education and a guarantee of a good career.
However, when it comes to perceptions of Asians on the part of youth coaches from grassroots level upward, I think it's quite possible for unconscious bias to play a role without any racist intentions. The human brain forms a sense of "what something looks like" based on previous experience. So "what a good footballer looks like" will be informed by what the good footballers of the past looked like - not just racially: there have been all sorts of stereotypes about the body shape, etc. of an ideal footballer / winger / centre back. Most of us thought that Peter Crouch 'doesn't look like a footballer' when we first saw him. Lots of people thought Modric looked too slight to be a top class central midfielder. But these things can take on racial aspects. I remember around 20 years ago it was pointed out that if you were a talented black footballer, coaches would tend to channel you into playing as a centre back or a striker, i.e. to perceive pace and physicality as your key attributes, rather than the vision and creativity you may need as a midfielder. And indeed, at a time when there were plenty of black players in British football, but a small % of them playing as number 10s or passing midfielders. Many notable players have emerged who have destroyed that stereotype - Rocastle, Vieira, Pogba - and I'd guess that preconception has waned over time.
In the same way, south Asian players don't 'look like footballers' to the primitive zones of the brain than scan for familiar associations. I guess our cognitive limitations has played a bit of a role here, and of course that also seeps into broader cultural attitudes. I think it's only a matter of time before positive recruitment policies and talented individuals demonstrate that there's no inherent ceiling to the level an Asian player can reach in the sport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post. And pretty much spot on.
You always have a way of summing up all the things I want to say but am too thick to articulate, RR
Sign in if you want to comment
british asian players
Page 1 of 4
posted on 22/9/21
Maybe I'm generalising but it seems most asian families try to get their children into more professional careers while those that are into sport are probably more into Cricket. Although saying that whenever I play with friends on 4G pitches there are loads of south Asian kids playing as well.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe I'm generalising but it seems most asian families try to get their children into more professional careers while those that are into sport are probably more into Cricket. Although saying that whenever I play with friends on 4G pitches there are loads of south Asian kids playing as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
at school we had a very good team and we had one asian lad who probably stood out above everyone else and could have made it as a pro.
his parents however would not support this as they were pushing him to become a doctor ( which he has)
posted on 22/9/21
It’s been well documented and an issue for years. Whether it’s parents pushing kids into another career or background or coaches generally viewing Asian players as less skilled or weaker, they’ve never been given the chance.
Still think there’s an air of racial profiling when academies pick their players. I think there was a documentary a couple years back on this topic.
Hopefully more South Asian players get the opportunity in the near future as views are changing
posted on 22/9/21
As a British Asian myself, there are a number of factors but I'd say for the 1st and 2nd generation, its got to to with family expectations and up bringing. Most Asian parents expect their children to go into a respectable profession, be it Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer etc and that's drilled onto them at a young age. They see football more of a pass time activity, same could be said for Chinese. They don't see a footballer as a profession to make a career out of.
A lot of my Asian friends love football, way more than cricket actually. I've got friends that play in Sunday league and are very good players, technically brilliant, maybe not physically though and that goes back to the issue we've had for decades in this country, always going for the big powerful lad rather than the more smaller technical one, seems to be changing now so who knows, may get more Asians break through. Us Asians aren't generally big, tall and physically imposing like the English or Northern Europeans.
posted on 22/9/21
Down to the parents. We will see more Asians coming through over time
posted on 22/9/21
Lads I grew up with dropped football pretty early on in their teens and there was more of an academic focus. Will likely see it change as generations change but it's going to be a bit behind. When I lived in Egypt it wasn't even a thing, all of the focus was on exams and results.
posted on 22/9/21
I think it's just been said in the OP, cultural differences and football just not being the main sport in that region of the world. Family probably links in with the cultural differences.
I've never been over to any parts of Asia, but I know a few people who have and they have told stories that do make you realise it's a different world over there entirely. Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
posted on 22/9/21
Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
------------------------------
Don't know what parts of Asia you're talking about but for South Asian countries at least that isn't true at all. If anything you see far more kids roaming the streets than you would in Western Countries. As has been mentioned though its usually cricket rather than football they're playing.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 3 minutes ago
Children, young adults etc probably don't have the safety or areas to go and kick a ball around on the streets, in a park etc.
------------------------------
Don't know what parts of Asia you're talking about but for South Asian countries at least that isn't true at all. If anything you see far more kids roaming the streets than you would in Western Countries. As has been mentioned though its usually cricket rather than football they're playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it's not true for all areas, just a few areas of China, Taiwan, Iran etc where I've heard stories of the quality of the areas are woeful for people.
Whether that's the "norm" in those countries is a different thing entirely though, as every country has it's deprived/unsafe area.
posted on 22/9/21
Preferring Cricket is a very poor cliche. Asian kids don't like cricket unless your dad/mum is from SouthAsia but now we are in 3rd generation and they all like football. Also encouraged to play football by parents.
Education is not a barrier either. You can do both unlike in the past.
There are some good Asian kids but they are not getting picked.
posted on 22/9/21
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
posted on 22/9/21
why do people think the % is so low?
========
Because they're playing cricket.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 0 seconds ago
why do people think the % is so low?
========
Because they're playing cricket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, just seen Kash's comment.
Just what I see on the fields around Nottingham and then what I see down at things like power league.
Figured it was that but maybe not then.
posted on 22/9/21
Asians still love cricket over here. Very close to football especially my neck of the woods
posted on 22/9/21
Dad - Loved cricket
Me - Loved football but also played cricket
Kids - Love football, Fifa but get bored when they play or watch cricket.
posted on 22/9/21
There doesn’t seem to that many top Asian players in general.
Can’t ever remember an Asian being a top 10 in the world player for instance.
Son is probably the best I’ve seen.
posted on 22/9/21
Kagawa, Nakamura, Minamino. The guy at Wolves looks good.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 3 minutes ago
Kagawa, Nakamura, Minamino. The guy at Wolves looks good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ya decent players but not elite.
posted on 22/9/21
This is an issue close to my heart. And something I briefly looked into a few years back.
Reading some of the responses, it's fair to say we hear some of them a lot. However some may have been true many years back but are not as true as people think.
Yes cricket was a favourite amongst south Asian kids in the late 70's and into the 80's however there wasn't many Asian kids coming through the set ups into county or international cricket even then. That number has got better in the county circuit and we have had the likes of Moin make it into the England set up.
The problems/issues in football seem to be the same as it was for cricket. And for me it isn't about the parents wanting kids in certain professions that is the main issue. Parents do want kids into those professions but it's more about thinking "well you won't get in so may as well focus on something you can do". This is usually based on conversation like this one, but that have been going on for years without any major break throughs in football.
Football is THE number one sport these days. I've had friends who made it to teams like Stoke City and iirc Oldham. Very good players too but never seemed to get past stage one. One left completely and one went to Pakistan and played for Pakistan for a bit but wasn't financially beneficial.
The guy at Stoke maintains he faced a lot of racism whilst there. As someone said there are black players who have made it but he insists the racism for the Asian guy even comes from the black players. Obviously I can't say if he is telling the truth or just bitter.
I myself loved cricket as a kid. I was very good too. I was the fastest bowler at our school but only made the team initially as I agreed to wicket keep. By the tile I was at uni I was opening the bowling for the team. I did get injuries that prevented me going pro but always felt support at school would have helped me get into pro cricket earlier and maybe the medical attention too.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 30 minutes ago
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of valid comments throughout this discussion make it clear there's a mixture of factors at play, including cultural pressure from families to focus on education and a guarantee of a good career.
However, when it comes to perceptions of Asians on the part of youth coaches from grassroots level upward, I think it's quite possible for unconscious bias to play a role without any racist intentions. The human brain forms a sense of "what something looks like" based on previous experience. So "what a good footballer looks like" will be informed by what the good footballers of the past looked like - not just racially: there have been all sorts of stereotypes about the body shape, etc. of an ideal footballer / winger / centre back. Most of us thought that Peter Crouch 'doesn't look like a footballer' when we first saw him. Lots of people thought Modric looked too slight to be a top class central midfielder. But these things can take on racial aspects. I remember around 20 years ago it was pointed out that if you were a talented black footballer, coaches would tend to channel you into playing as a centre back or a striker, i.e. to perceive pace and physicality as your key attributes, rather than the vision and creativity you may need as a midfielder. And indeed, at a time when there were plenty of black players in British football, but a small % of them playing as number 10s or passing midfielders. Many notable players have emerged who have destroyed that stereotype - Rocastle, Vieira, Pogba - and I'd guess that preconception has waned over time.
In the same way, south Asian players don't 'look like footballers' to the primitive zones of the brain than scan for familiar associations. I guess our cognitive limitations has played a bit of a role here, and of course that also seeps into broader cultural attitudes. I think it's only a matter of time before positive recruitment policies and talented individuals demonstrate that there's no inherent ceiling to the level an Asian player can reach in the sport.
posted on 22/9/21
I could play back in the days and I remember Bradford City had this open day for Asian players. Loads of PR, coverage etc. Me and mate got picked from our team to go and it was bolllocks.
I had my full Liverpool kit on and they made us play 5 a side for 10 mins. No one watched us and then we got a cheap medal and a dodgy certificate and then we went home.
I also had trials at Hudderfield and the coach who rejected me said I was too greedy with the ball.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 15 minutes ago
I also had trials at Hudderfield and the coach who rejected me said I was too dedicated to posting first on every man utd article on Ja606
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats a shame
posted on 22/9/21
The parents just lie waiting for the Asian kid to fack up (which happens all the time), then gaslight the kid into thinking they're not good enough for "physical" jobs, and push them into "decent" jobs like being a doctor. Asian parents are always trapping their kids into becoming "settled" because of their own immigrant insecurities. To enact this, they use a whole bunch of techniques and tricks to not let the kid play. They have good intentions though.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 5 minutes ago
The parents just lie waiting for the Asian kid to fack up (which happens all the time), then gaslight the kid into thinking they're not good enough for "physical" jobs, and push them into "decent" jobs like being a doctor. Asian parents are always trapping their kids into becoming "settled" because of their own immigrant insecurities. To enact this, they use a whole bunch of techniques and tricks to not let the kid play. They have good intentions though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a lot of parents who are in professional jobs already or are but have middle class aspirations for their family have the same attitude when it comes to their kids, regardless of race. My boys are decent footballers at youth level and I encourage that, help out at the local club, etc. But if they got into the academy system I'd look at the statistical probability of them attaining the dream of playing professional football and strongly encourage them to focus on their education. Professional footballers disproportionately come from backgrounds where families perceive their wider career opportunities have a ceiling.
posted on 22/9/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 30 minutes ago
I wouldnt put it down to racism given the over representation of Black / mixed race players within the professional game.
Probably more to do with cultural differences, although that should change given time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of valid comments throughout this discussion make it clear there's a mixture of factors at play, including cultural pressure from families to focus on education and a guarantee of a good career.
However, when it comes to perceptions of Asians on the part of youth coaches from grassroots level upward, I think it's quite possible for unconscious bias to play a role without any racist intentions. The human brain forms a sense of "what something looks like" based on previous experience. So "what a good footballer looks like" will be informed by what the good footballers of the past looked like - not just racially: there have been all sorts of stereotypes about the body shape, etc. of an ideal footballer / winger / centre back. Most of us thought that Peter Crouch 'doesn't look like a footballer' when we first saw him. Lots of people thought Modric looked too slight to be a top class central midfielder. But these things can take on racial aspects. I remember around 20 years ago it was pointed out that if you were a talented black footballer, coaches would tend to channel you into playing as a centre back or a striker, i.e. to perceive pace and physicality as your key attributes, rather than the vision and creativity you may need as a midfielder. And indeed, at a time when there were plenty of black players in British football, but a small % of them playing as number 10s or passing midfielders. Many notable players have emerged who have destroyed that stereotype - Rocastle, Vieira, Pogba - and I'd guess that preconception has waned over time.
In the same way, south Asian players don't 'look like footballers' to the primitive zones of the brain than scan for familiar associations. I guess our cognitive limitations has played a bit of a role here, and of course that also seeps into broader cultural attitudes. I think it's only a matter of time before positive recruitment policies and talented individuals demonstrate that there's no inherent ceiling to the level an Asian player can reach in the sport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post. And pretty much spot on.
You always have a way of summing up all the things I want to say but am too thick to articulate, RR
Page 1 of 4