There's absolutely no doubt MB's a fantastic coach.
Who has revived the club and given us an incredible
ride. Plus, a team of good guys who play a highly
watchable brand of football. That's fact.
Window doesn't open until January. There's quite
a few games between now and then. And we're in
a pickle. Unavailable, critical players missing is
massive. It'll be great to get them all back. But,
with a small squad, there's no guarantee other
injuries won't affect us in the same way.
My worry is (even if I doubt it'll happen) this
continues or god forbid gets worse and MB, who
we know is a man of honor, sees this dip as
his fault? Or feels he can't right things. And decides
to walk. Again, I doubt he'll do that. Nor do I think
he should.
Saying that, we could lose a lot of ground before
the window. And even then will the club strengthen?
Will they have resources to strengthen? If we do,
there's no guarantee we get the right players.
There's a lot to be concerned about right now. But,
I'm 100% sure the club recognize that. They're
not idiots. They have to be asking questions too.
Even if they're very uncomfortable ones.
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 3 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Shaun M - Everywhere you go, always take Rapinha with you! (U9955)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
Good coach, floored manager. Stick your head back in the sand ..... muppet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh the irony.
These are the types of comments that open yourself up for reactions when you make comments that show you don’t watch the games properly.
If you want to talk to people like that. Don’t cry when you get stick for really really stupid comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title of article implied people that think Bielsa aint fully up to it are muppets, nothing wrong with a like for like response. He's a great coach, but we're 17th and playing like crap for a reason. His small squad mentality is a floor and the owners need to wise up to it. Bournemouth we're comfortable in this league until they got ravaged by injuries.
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Absolute muppets.
The muppets who doubt Bielsa also moan about not spending money (We spent £48m on senior players in the close season with a few million more on U23s and have a £25m court case ongoing).
A large proportion of these moaners do not watch the games - its clear from what they write.
Not even wavered 1% away from Bielsa. 100% happy to have him here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn’t he doesn’t have faults/weaknesses though. And he is deserving of some criticism.
However he is clearly one of very few managers in the game who could have achieved what he has so far. And he’s had the same faults for the whole time in charge. So just because we are struggling at the moment. As we have done in the past. Would you back a worse manager to fix things?
If I want anyone to fix these problems it’s the guy that’s fixed so many problems over the last three years already.
"VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 28 minutes ago
Bielsa isn't and shouldn't be above critique.
Yes done wonders for the club, but some of the questions seem fair enough to me.
Personally don't think giving him the push is anything like the answer, yet. Need players back and some form (confidence maybe?) to string some results together. Said on another thread that I believe we'll stay up, still do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree about critique - but my issue is when people point at the very things that bielsa has done good over the years as a flaw - but are the first ones raving when it works. Can’t have it both ways
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think (hope) Bielsa can turn things round. Getting players back from injury will help that - but are his coaching/training methods part of the problem there maybe?
What he's done over the years has been against lesser players and invariably lesser coaches/managers. He's now plying his methods against the best - and they learn to adapt - not sure we do or will. First season was a bit of a revelation, i think we're truly seeing where the side is this time round. I never doubted this season would be tougher. Great point about expectations - last season the bar was set, i'm not sure we were ever going to replicate it.
At this stage i'm concerned, but certainly not panicking. Bielsa out - no way, certainly not at this stage."
Strange comments when comparing top players/managers against lesser, Bielsa has done great with what he has, the problem in comparing is we have to have the same class off player as others, but until the club builds itself up to the same standard as the top clubs in this league it won't be able to get that class off player!..
We could always sell Raphinha and Phillips than maybe we could get a few in!..
But would they be enough or good enough to bring us forward?..
The measure of how good Bielsa is will be where he goes from here.
We are facing a new challenge and now we get to see a.m new side to his management. Over the next couple of years also whether his integration methods of the younger players bears meaningful fruit.
So far, the evidence is there since he began his tenure. Either way, it’s a good learning curve for him and us abd we can be sure he’s analyaing in detail the best way to navigate out of this sticky patch.
It’s up to him, not us to get that right, least of all before we make judgements about his management!
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
I think the OP needs to wake up to reality, he is verging on being delusionary.
I guess we will know more after the Wolves game.
My wish for Saturday is that Bielsa makes significant changes allowing for a couple of players returning from injury in KP and Raphina, I would like to see Shackleton moved into midfield playing alongside KP with Klich slightly forward of them, James and Raphina on the wings but Raphina moving inside more supporting Rodrigo up top.
With Ayling still out then I think we should give young Drameh a chance and play Cooper at LB like he does sometimes for Scotland which would put Struiyk in his preferred position alongside Lorente.
That's what I think would give us more control of midfield and more balance at the back but I would forbid Cooper from marauding up the left flank and just make him concentrate on defending.
That's what I would like to see whether it will happen I'm not so sure but if we are not strong in the middle then Wolves will cut through us with ease I fear.
We need to win but a draw would at least give us a platform to build on for Norwich away.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonty
I’ve no intention of mocking people’s views on the current situation. But not going to hide the fact that I get peed off at comments which aren’t based on facts and from opinions from a minority that clearly have not watched many if any games.
As stated, yes the table doesn’t look good, but can someone point out where Bielsa is to blame exactly and align it to current points
Man U - expected to lose
Liverpool - expected
Everton - good result to come back being behind twice
Newcastle - we battered them first half and didn’t take chances.. nothing to do with bielsa tactics. Stonewall pen not given
West Ham - again, at 1-0 we had ample chances and didn’t take. Klitch one being the turning point for me. Clear pen on James not given. How does beilsa tactics come into that?
Burnley - think away at Burnley half of the division would take a draw
Southampton- very poor first half. 6 players out lost 1-0 hardly earth shattering and a call for a public enquiry is it? Let’s be honest
I think the problem is that there are a few people (naming no names) who enjoy a bit of a whinge, both on here and on twitter. There's even some people who I suspect enjoy us struggling, because it allows them to trot out their "I told you so's", or facilitates them complaining.
What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. For the last three years, these people will have been hailing just how fit our players are in comparison to other teams. This is an effect of Bielsa's training regimen. I just don't see how you can hail someone for something, then start using it as a stick to beat them with when it doesn't work for a bit.
We could have done with adding an 8 in the summer (we almost signed Gallagher, but I recall plenty on here not wanting him), but as has been said before, most teams in this league struggle if you take half of their starting lineup away and replace them with the backups. Reality is that if we get the wins against Newcastle, and draws against West Ham and Southampton, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Question, how mqany games have we dominated and played with the pressure we did last season?..
From here I only see games on my Laptop when I'm lucky enough to get them, but from what I have seen this year I haven't seen the press we played last season, is that down to Bielsa or is it the players not getting it together?..
Injuries are a big part, but if as suggested 6 first team players are missing than that is a bigger problem!..
Bring back 2 or 3 from those 6 then its a different game!..
I said to my brother that I don't think we'd have lost at the weekend had we carried on playing as badly as we did first half into the second. Southampton could have had the ball in front of our defence for hours and still not scored imo. What did it for us was poor game management, pushing too far forward when we sensed the opportunity to get a goal, and being caught on the break, similar to the second vs West Ham.
This comes about because we are having to play too many players who are inexperienced and have a point to prove.
"What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. "
^^^^^
In general, I buy that. Questioning something that
has clearly got us here, doesn't hold water.
On the flip side of that, we have heard that Koch,
Llorente, Firpo etc. didn't get injured prior to
joining us. So what changed? I've heard/read
people saying "it's just sh*tty luck." Which I'm not
sure I buy.
If we agree that MB's methods are unique and very tough, then since joining the club, and training the
way MB wants, must've contributed to the injury pile
up of these players? Which is then compounded by
our small squad.
Instead of blaming MB, do we have to look at Orta's
recruitment? And how he selects who he goes
after and drops money on? Not sure. It's a difficult
spot to be in right now. Hopefully, the Master gets
us going and going upward.
comment by Kern (U4664)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
"What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. "
^^^^^
In general, I buy that. Questioning something that
has clearly got us here, doesn't hold water.
On the flip side of that, we have heard that Koch,
Llorente, Firpo etc. didn't get injured prior to
joining us. So what changed? I've heard/read
people saying "it's just sh*tty luck." Which I'm not
sure I buy.
If we agree that MB's methods are unique and very tough, then since joining the club, and training the
way MB wants, must've contributed to the injury pile
up of these players? Which is then compounded by
our small squad.
Instead of blaming MB, do we have to look at Orta's
recruitment? And how he selects who he goes
after and drops money on? Not sure. It's a difficult
spot to be in right now. Hopefully, the Master gets
us going and going upward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no grouse with Bielsa's small-squad philosophy but, as Lubo infers, we have a small squad with an over-reliance on inexperienced players. I do think we've had 'sh!tty luck', too - surely players in the peak of their playing careers can't be suffering from Bielsa's extreme training regime, while others seem to flourish. Call me a cock-eyed optimist but I'm actually excited about the prospect of getting a full-strength team back and the heights we'll achieve.
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 6 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonty
I’ve no intention of mocking people’s views on the current situation. But not going to hide the fact that I get peed off at comments which aren’t based on facts and from opinions from a minority that clearly have not watched many if any games.
As stated, yes the table doesn’t look good, but can someone point out where Bielsa is to blame exactly and align it to current points
Man U - expected to lose
Liverpool - expected
Everton - good result to come back being behind twice
Newcastle - we battered them first half and didn’t take chances.. nothing to do with bielsa tactics. Stonewall pen not given
West Ham - again, at 1-0 we had ample chances and didn’t take. Klitch one being the turning point for me. Clear pen on James not given. How does beilsa tactics come into that?
Burnley - think away at Burnley half of the division would take a draw
Southampton- very poor first half. 6 players out lost 1-0 hardly earth shattering and a call for a public enquiry is it? Let’s be honest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
comment by Lubo - Struijk of Genius (U14008)
posted 7 hours, 17 minutes ago
I think the problem is that there are a few people (naming no names) who enjoy a bit of a whinge, both on here and on twitter. There's even some people who I suspect enjoy us struggling, because it allows them to trot out their "I told you so's", or facilitates them complaining.
What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. For the last three years, these people will have been hailing just how fit our players are in comparison to other teams. This is an effect of Bielsa's training regimen. I just don't see how you can hail someone for something, then start using it as a stick to beat them with when it doesn't work for a bit.
We could have done with adding an 8 in the summer (we almost signed Gallagher, but I recall plenty on here not wanting him), but as has been said before, most teams in this league struggle if you take half of their starting lineup away and replace them with the backups. Reality is that if we get the wins against Newcastle, and draws against West Ham and Southampton, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 9 hours, 31 minutes ago
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets not try and avoid the simple question eh.
Heres your context, we're bottom 3, things have not changed, we still have players out, players still not performing and you're bang on that we're unlucky all the time.
We're bottom three at Christmas, do you keep things the same.
It really is a simple question.
I'll answer Jonty. Based on that scenario:
Most fans are freaking out. We will be viewed more as relegation certs than survivors. Club will be asking hard questions regards all choices made. And with the january window looming, will have to think long and hard about bringing in several top end players to help.
Biggest part of that scenario you pose will be MB's position. If as you say nothing has changed and in bottom 3, he might well resign.
For me, I'd say we'd have to change a lot. If we don't, that scenario starts to look like dead club walking.
comment by Kern (U4664)
posted 56 minutes ago
I'll answer Jonty. Based on that scenario:
Most fans are freaking out. We will be viewed more as relegation certs than survivors. Club will be asking hard questions regards all choices made. And with the january window looming, will have to think long and hard about bringing in several top end players to help.
Biggest part of that scenario you pose will be MB's position. If as you say nothing has changed and in bottom 3, he might well resign.
For me, I'd say we'd have to change a lot. If we don't, that scenario starts to look like dead club walking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if he resigns, its for one of a few specific reasons:
He thinks he's failed or is the problem.
He thinks he's not being supported by the board.
What do the board do?
They need us to stay up. They see us in real problems, they want to give enough time to a rescuer type manager.
I like Bielsa, but he's not perfect and I hope he can rise to this particular challenge. This challenge should be seen as an opportunity. An opportunity to try other players and look at some alternative solutions.
Good news it, that scenario might never play out.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 9 hours, 31 minutes ago
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets not try and avoid the simple question eh.
Heres your context, we're bottom 3, things have not changed, we still have players out, players still not performing and you're bang on that we're unlucky all the time.
We're bottom three at Christmas, do you keep things the same.
It really is a simple question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are bottom 3, within touching distance of safety and we have players out and few others not performing I wouldn’t be changing the manager as a property. No. Definitely not. I’d hope beilsa would be knocking on the door of Orta and Radz hoping for 2 decent signings in January to push us up the table to safety.
Yet again - still no answer (from
Anyone) as to what exactly beilsa has done wrong tactically in some of the games I’ve mentioned above. His obsession with a small squad I don’t agree with - but didn’t agree with it 3 years ago either but didn’t complain when we were winning….
I’d hope beilsa would be knocking on the door of Orta and Radz hoping for 2 decent signings in January to push us up the table to safety.
----
The club has said doesn't like doing business in January.
Bielsa says a player needs a number of weeks to get match/system ready.
We don't have that much money.
If we are bottom 3 at Christmas and we've been lurking there all season (as we have for 2 months now) there is a high chance based on previous seasons that we go down and I'm not sure what he can change to change our direction. I hope he can, but I'm just not sure.
What has he done wrong tactically?
Relied on injury prone players meaning changing defensive line up, not developed the right cover for Philips over last few years, not making best use of Rodrigo, not giving youth more of a chance, not making effective substitutions.
This isn't meant to be knocking Bielsa, but if you're asking where things could have been improved this is where they could be improved.
Love Bielsa ... his personality, mannerisms, what he's brought to the club and the entertainment value i've seen from the stands and when forced to watch on TV.
But damned if i can't point out what i perceive are shortcomings/errors/possible issues etc......
I don't want him gone, way to much credit in his bank for me. Actually i'm not sure i'd want him gone even if the worst happened. But on a discussion forum i'll carry on being either Stadler or Waldorf and offer an opinion on where or how i think things might be improved.
Sign in if you want to comment
Only a muppet doubts Bielsa
Page 2 of 3
posted on 18/10/21
There's absolutely no doubt MB's a fantastic coach.
Who has revived the club and given us an incredible
ride. Plus, a team of good guys who play a highly
watchable brand of football. That's fact.
Window doesn't open until January. There's quite
a few games between now and then. And we're in
a pickle. Unavailable, critical players missing is
massive. It'll be great to get them all back. But,
with a small squad, there's no guarantee other
injuries won't affect us in the same way.
My worry is (even if I doubt it'll happen) this
continues or god forbid gets worse and MB, who
we know is a man of honor, sees this dip as
his fault? Or feels he can't right things. And decides
to walk. Again, I doubt he'll do that. Nor do I think
he should.
Saying that, we could lose a lot of ground before
the window. And even then will the club strengthen?
Will they have resources to strengthen? If we do,
there's no guarantee we get the right players.
There's a lot to be concerned about right now. But,
I'm 100% sure the club recognize that. They're
not idiots. They have to be asking questions too.
Even if they're very uncomfortable ones.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 3 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Shaun M - Everywhere you go, always take Rapinha with you! (U9955)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
Good coach, floored manager. Stick your head back in the sand ..... muppet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh the irony.
These are the types of comments that open yourself up for reactions when you make comments that show you don’t watch the games properly.
If you want to talk to people like that. Don’t cry when you get stick for really really stupid comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title of article implied people that think Bielsa aint fully up to it are muppets, nothing wrong with a like for like response. He's a great coach, but we're 17th and playing like crap for a reason. His small squad mentality is a floor and the owners need to wise up to it. Bournemouth we're comfortable in this league until they got ravaged by injuries.
posted on 18/10/21
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Absolute muppets.
The muppets who doubt Bielsa also moan about not spending money (We spent £48m on senior players in the close season with a few million more on U23s and have a £25m court case ongoing).
A large proportion of these moaners do not watch the games - its clear from what they write.
Not even wavered 1% away from Bielsa. 100% happy to have him here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn’t he doesn’t have faults/weaknesses though. And he is deserving of some criticism.
However he is clearly one of very few managers in the game who could have achieved what he has so far. And he’s had the same faults for the whole time in charge. So just because we are struggling at the moment. As we have done in the past. Would you back a worse manager to fix things?
If I want anyone to fix these problems it’s the guy that’s fixed so many problems over the last three years already.
posted on 18/10/21
"VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by VOF - Its all about believing .... (U17124)
posted 28 minutes ago
Bielsa isn't and shouldn't be above critique.
Yes done wonders for the club, but some of the questions seem fair enough to me.
Personally don't think giving him the push is anything like the answer, yet. Need players back and some form (confidence maybe?) to string some results together. Said on another thread that I believe we'll stay up, still do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree about critique - but my issue is when people point at the very things that bielsa has done good over the years as a flaw - but are the first ones raving when it works. Can’t have it both ways
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think (hope) Bielsa can turn things round. Getting players back from injury will help that - but are his coaching/training methods part of the problem there maybe?
What he's done over the years has been against lesser players and invariably lesser coaches/managers. He's now plying his methods against the best - and they learn to adapt - not sure we do or will. First season was a bit of a revelation, i think we're truly seeing where the side is this time round. I never doubted this season would be tougher. Great point about expectations - last season the bar was set, i'm not sure we were ever going to replicate it.
At this stage i'm concerned, but certainly not panicking. Bielsa out - no way, certainly not at this stage."
Strange comments when comparing top players/managers against lesser, Bielsa has done great with what he has, the problem in comparing is we have to have the same class off player as others, but until the club builds itself up to the same standard as the top clubs in this league it won't be able to get that class off player!..
We could always sell Raphinha and Phillips than maybe we could get a few in!..
But would they be enough or good enough to bring us forward?..
posted on 18/10/21
The measure of how good Bielsa is will be where he goes from here.
We are facing a new challenge and now we get to see a.m new side to his management. Over the next couple of years also whether his integration methods of the younger players bears meaningful fruit.
So far, the evidence is there since he began his tenure. Either way, it’s a good learning curve for him and us abd we can be sure he’s analyaing in detail the best way to navigate out of this sticky patch.
It’s up to him, not us to get that right, least of all before we make judgements about his management!
posted on 19/10/21
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
posted on 19/10/21
I think the OP needs to wake up to reality, he is verging on being delusionary.
posted on 19/10/21
I guess we will know more after the Wolves game.
posted on 19/10/21
My wish for Saturday is that Bielsa makes significant changes allowing for a couple of players returning from injury in KP and Raphina, I would like to see Shackleton moved into midfield playing alongside KP with Klich slightly forward of them, James and Raphina on the wings but Raphina moving inside more supporting Rodrigo up top.
With Ayling still out then I think we should give young Drameh a chance and play Cooper at LB like he does sometimes for Scotland which would put Struiyk in his preferred position alongside Lorente.
That's what I think would give us more control of midfield and more balance at the back but I would forbid Cooper from marauding up the left flank and just make him concentrate on defending.
That's what I would like to see whether it will happen I'm not so sure but if we are not strong in the middle then Wolves will cut through us with ease I fear.
We need to win but a draw would at least give us a platform to build on for Norwich away.
posted on 19/10/21
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonty
I’ve no intention of mocking people’s views on the current situation. But not going to hide the fact that I get peed off at comments which aren’t based on facts and from opinions from a minority that clearly have not watched many if any games.
As stated, yes the table doesn’t look good, but can someone point out where Bielsa is to blame exactly and align it to current points
Man U - expected to lose
Liverpool - expected
Everton - good result to come back being behind twice
Newcastle - we battered them first half and didn’t take chances.. nothing to do with bielsa tactics. Stonewall pen not given
West Ham - again, at 1-0 we had ample chances and didn’t take. Klitch one being the turning point for me. Clear pen on James not given. How does beilsa tactics come into that?
Burnley - think away at Burnley half of the division would take a draw
Southampton- very poor first half. 6 players out lost 1-0 hardly earth shattering and a call for a public enquiry is it? Let’s be honest
posted on 19/10/21
I think the problem is that there are a few people (naming no names) who enjoy a bit of a whinge, both on here and on twitter. There's even some people who I suspect enjoy us struggling, because it allows them to trot out their "I told you so's", or facilitates them complaining.
What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. For the last three years, these people will have been hailing just how fit our players are in comparison to other teams. This is an effect of Bielsa's training regimen. I just don't see how you can hail someone for something, then start using it as a stick to beat them with when it doesn't work for a bit.
We could have done with adding an 8 in the summer (we almost signed Gallagher, but I recall plenty on here not wanting him), but as has been said before, most teams in this league struggle if you take half of their starting lineup away and replace them with the backups. Reality is that if we get the wins against Newcastle, and draws against West Ham and Southampton, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
posted on 19/10/21
Question, how mqany games have we dominated and played with the pressure we did last season?..
From here I only see games on my Laptop when I'm lucky enough to get them, but from what I have seen this year I haven't seen the press we played last season, is that down to Bielsa or is it the players not getting it together?..
Injuries are a big part, but if as suggested 6 first team players are missing than that is a bigger problem!..
Bring back 2 or 3 from those 6 then its a different game!..
posted on 19/10/21
I said to my brother that I don't think we'd have lost at the weekend had we carried on playing as badly as we did first half into the second. Southampton could have had the ball in front of our defence for hours and still not scored imo. What did it for us was poor game management, pushing too far forward when we sensed the opportunity to get a goal, and being caught on the break, similar to the second vs West Ham.
This comes about because we are having to play too many players who are inexperienced and have a point to prove.
posted on 19/10/21
"What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. "
^^^^^
In general, I buy that. Questioning something that
has clearly got us here, doesn't hold water.
On the flip side of that, we have heard that Koch,
Llorente, Firpo etc. didn't get injured prior to
joining us. So what changed? I've heard/read
people saying "it's just sh*tty luck." Which I'm not
sure I buy.
If we agree that MB's methods are unique and very tough, then since joining the club, and training the
way MB wants, must've contributed to the injury pile
up of these players? Which is then compounded by
our small squad.
Instead of blaming MB, do we have to look at Orta's
recruitment? And how he selects who he goes
after and drops money on? Not sure. It's a difficult
spot to be in right now. Hopefully, the Master gets
us going and going upward.
posted on 19/10/21
comment by Kern (U4664)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
"What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. "
^^^^^
In general, I buy that. Questioning something that
has clearly got us here, doesn't hold water.
On the flip side of that, we have heard that Koch,
Llorente, Firpo etc. didn't get injured prior to
joining us. So what changed? I've heard/read
people saying "it's just sh*tty luck." Which I'm not
sure I buy.
If we agree that MB's methods are unique and very tough, then since joining the club, and training the
way MB wants, must've contributed to the injury pile
up of these players? Which is then compounded by
our small squad.
Instead of blaming MB, do we have to look at Orta's
recruitment? And how he selects who he goes
after and drops money on? Not sure. It's a difficult
spot to be in right now. Hopefully, the Master gets
us going and going upward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no grouse with Bielsa's small-squad philosophy but, as Lubo infers, we have a small squad with an over-reliance on inexperienced players. I do think we've had 'sh!tty luck', too - surely players in the peak of their playing careers can't be suffering from Bielsa's extreme training regime, while others seem to flourish. Call me a cock-eyed optimist but I'm actually excited about the prospect of getting a full-strength team back and the heights we'll achieve.
posted on 19/10/21
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 6 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 6 hours, 3 minutes ago
I see some muppets on social media and here are slowing turning on Bielsa and losing faith in him. Why? He is literally the reason why we are where we are
----
we're 4th from bottom.
I don't think mocking people for expressing doubts about our situation helps.
No one denies the great job he has done so far.
Most people can recognise that he is now in uncharted territory, he's been with a club side longer than any other and when you're in uncharted territory, doubts are par for the course.
We can say it['s due to 6 players out, but even with them available we weren't as effective as last season and the reality is that there are no guarantees regarding getting out of this situation at present.
I hope Bielsa succeeds and is given time to succeed, but let me ask you a simple question.
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonty
I’ve no intention of mocking people’s views on the current situation. But not going to hide the fact that I get peed off at comments which aren’t based on facts and from opinions from a minority that clearly have not watched many if any games.
As stated, yes the table doesn’t look good, but can someone point out where Bielsa is to blame exactly and align it to current points
Man U - expected to lose
Liverpool - expected
Everton - good result to come back being behind twice
Newcastle - we battered them first half and didn’t take chances.. nothing to do with bielsa tactics. Stonewall pen not given
West Ham - again, at 1-0 we had ample chances and didn’t take. Klitch one being the turning point for me. Clear pen on James not given. How does beilsa tactics come into that?
Burnley - think away at Burnley half of the division would take a draw
Southampton- very poor first half. 6 players out lost 1-0 hardly earth shattering and a call for a public enquiry is it? Let’s be honest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
posted on 19/10/21
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
posted on 19/10/21
comment by Lubo - Struijk of Genius (U14008)
posted 7 hours, 17 minutes ago
I think the problem is that there are a few people (naming no names) who enjoy a bit of a whinge, both on here and on twitter. There's even some people who I suspect enjoy us struggling, because it allows them to trot out their "I told you so's", or facilitates them complaining.
What I just don't get are the arguments like "oh, Bielsa's training regime is the problem". Just nonsensical. For the last three years, these people will have been hailing just how fit our players are in comparison to other teams. This is an effect of Bielsa's training regimen. I just don't see how you can hail someone for something, then start using it as a stick to beat them with when it doesn't work for a bit.
We could have done with adding an 8 in the summer (we almost signed Gallagher, but I recall plenty on here not wanting him), but as has been said before, most teams in this league struggle if you take half of their starting lineup away and replace them with the backups. Reality is that if we get the wins against Newcastle, and draws against West Ham and Southampton, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on
posted on 20/10/21
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 9 hours, 31 minutes ago
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets not try and avoid the simple question eh.
Heres your context, we're bottom 3, things have not changed, we still have players out, players still not performing and you're bang on that we're unlucky all the time.
We're bottom three at Christmas, do you keep things the same.
It really is a simple question.
posted on 20/10/21
I'll answer Jonty. Based on that scenario:
Most fans are freaking out. We will be viewed more as relegation certs than survivors. Club will be asking hard questions regards all choices made. And with the january window looming, will have to think long and hard about bringing in several top end players to help.
Biggest part of that scenario you pose will be MB's position. If as you say nothing has changed and in bottom 3, he might well resign.
For me, I'd say we'd have to change a lot. If we don't, that scenario starts to look like dead club walking.
posted on 20/10/21
comment by Kern (U4664)
posted 56 minutes ago
I'll answer Jonty. Based on that scenario:
Most fans are freaking out. We will be viewed more as relegation certs than survivors. Club will be asking hard questions regards all choices made. And with the january window looming, will have to think long and hard about bringing in several top end players to help.
Biggest part of that scenario you pose will be MB's position. If as you say nothing has changed and in bottom 3, he might well resign.
For me, I'd say we'd have to change a lot. If we don't, that scenario starts to look like dead club walking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if he resigns, its for one of a few specific reasons:
He thinks he's failed or is the problem.
He thinks he's not being supported by the board.
What do the board do?
They need us to stay up. They see us in real problems, they want to give enough time to a rescuer type manager.
I like Bielsa, but he's not perfect and I hope he can rise to this particular challenge. This challenge should be seen as an opportunity. An opportunity to try other players and look at some alternative solutions.
posted on 20/10/21
Good news it, that scenario might never play out.
posted on 20/10/21
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 9 hours, 31 minutes ago
-------------------------------
Not sure I saw an answer to this question:
If we're in bottom three at Christmas, would you continue with the same set up?
______________________________
You didn’t get an answer because it’s a question with many unknowns…. Why are we in bottom 3? Have we had 5 players + out for long periods? Have key players been missing? What’s the context regards the games we are losing. How many points are we off from safety?
Would need to provide more context before I can answer such a hypothetical question. I’ve stated earlier this team is a 11th-15th team. Given that say we are bottom 3 at Christmas and 3 points away from 15th place and have a few injuries no I certainly wouldn’t change things
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets not try and avoid the simple question eh.
Heres your context, we're bottom 3, things have not changed, we still have players out, players still not performing and you're bang on that we're unlucky all the time.
We're bottom three at Christmas, do you keep things the same.
It really is a simple question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are bottom 3, within touching distance of safety and we have players out and few others not performing I wouldn’t be changing the manager as a property. No. Definitely not. I’d hope beilsa would be knocking on the door of Orta and Radz hoping for 2 decent signings in January to push us up the table to safety.
Yet again - still no answer (from
Anyone) as to what exactly beilsa has done wrong tactically in some of the games I’ve mentioned above. His obsession with a small squad I don’t agree with - but didn’t agree with it 3 years ago either but didn’t complain when we were winning….
posted on 20/10/21
I’d hope beilsa would be knocking on the door of Orta and Radz hoping for 2 decent signings in January to push us up the table to safety.
----
The club has said doesn't like doing business in January.
Bielsa says a player needs a number of weeks to get match/system ready.
We don't have that much money.
If we are bottom 3 at Christmas and we've been lurking there all season (as we have for 2 months now) there is a high chance based on previous seasons that we go down and I'm not sure what he can change to change our direction. I hope he can, but I'm just not sure.
What has he done wrong tactically?
Relied on injury prone players meaning changing defensive line up, not developed the right cover for Philips over last few years, not making best use of Rodrigo, not giving youth more of a chance, not making effective substitutions.
This isn't meant to be knocking Bielsa, but if you're asking where things could have been improved this is where they could be improved.
posted on 20/10/21
Love Bielsa ... his personality, mannerisms, what he's brought to the club and the entertainment value i've seen from the stands and when forced to watch on TV.
But damned if i can't point out what i perceive are shortcomings/errors/possible issues etc......
I don't want him gone, way to much credit in his bank for me. Actually i'm not sure i'd want him gone even if the worst happened. But on a discussion forum i'll carry on being either Stadler or Waldorf and offer an opinion on where or how i think things might be improved.
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