comment by Hot Shot Hamish (U21959)
posted 7 minutes ago
The new Dune was excellent IMO
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watched it twice on the telly and going to the cinema tomorrow to see it. My birthday treat to myself
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 10 minutes ago
PointyDune was published in 1965 and there has been an 80s movie (with Sting in it) and a television mini-series as well as it being a well discussed classic sci-fi novel than spawned a saga with 5 other books then when the author died his son wrote over 12 more, so you can gtf by pretending not to know what happens in this film
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh really?
I was thinking about buying the book, but fvcked if I'm going to read a bajillion of them.
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by JFK - The Rebel Treble (U8919)
posted 24 minutes ago
Sadly, I believe COP26 is no more than a meeting of the peoples front of judea.
"ORETTA: I agree. It's action that counts, not words, and we need action now.
COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!
REG: You're right. We could sit around here all day talking, passing resolutions, making clever speeches. It's not going to shift one Roman soldier!
FRANCIS: So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!
COMMANDOS: Right!
LORETTA: I agree. This is a complete waste of time.
bam
JUDITH: They've arrested Brian!
REG: What?
COMMANDOS: What?
JUDITH: They've dragged him off! They're going to crucify him!
REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.
What should be concerning for environmentalists (and us all by extension) is th fact that this is the 26th of these global UN meetings to discuss what we're doing to the environment.. and it's still getting worse
The first of these meetings was 26 years ago. Already many promises made at previous meetings (including the last one in Paris) haven't been met. Deforestation being a major one.
Politicians making targets that are a generation away knowing that many of the tough decisions and policies that need to be made are unpopular with voters given we've had, and been promised nothing but growth for the past 150 years. Kicking the can along and passing the buck to someone else in the near future, who will undoubtedly do the same until it's too late.
Won't change until we've used up all of our oil and gas reserves globally and these sectors (energy providers) are forced into change as politicians are both tribalists and toothless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And I am far from convinced a shouty sweary teenager standing in a crowd in Glasgow singing 'you can shove your climate crisis up your erchie' is going to change that.
I am not criticising her or her efforts - I am far from convinced she will turn out to be one of the most important people of the 21st century.
Shes like a player thats outstanding at youth level. There no guarantees she can make the step up to first team eco activism.
I'm the same Hamish.. all credit to Greta for doing what she does, but until we all start singing from the same hymn sheet and start making our feelings known through the power of the vote, then politicians will continue to feel they can get away with doing the bare minimum.
Bill Maher read a stat/poll out on his show.. over 50% of Americans want tougher action from politicians to tackle climate change, but only 30% would support a targeted tax which would add $100 a year to their tax bill. It's that indifference that politicians capitalise on.. and that selfish, short sighted attitude from most people that ensures no real change will happen
End of the day, most folk care about too many other issues before the environment (and rightly so.. price of food and energy, rent/mortgage, childcare etc).
It's why our toothless politicians will get away with it. Assuming the younger generation(s) such as this Gen Z lot do start and continue to demand that the environment be up there as one of the frontline issues, and start voting for the Green Party or parties who promise really green/environmental policies then they too will continue to be a part of the problem.
comment by PointyBirds (U21890)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 10 minutes ago
PointyDune was published in 1965 and there has been an 80s movie (with Sting in it) and a television mini-series as well as it being a well discussed classic sci-fi novel than spawned a saga with 5 other books then when the author died his son wrote over 12 more, so you can gtf by pretending not to know what happens in this film
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh really?
I was thinking about buying the book, but fvcked if I'm going to read a bajillion of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've only read the first. Listened to it on audiobook first and I'd recommend that as it's quite good, with different voice actors for different roles and some added wee sound effects to help immerse you into it. Was great for driving along and listening to when that was a large part of my work.
Apparently the first three are a trilogy of sorts and then it starts getting really batshiit crazy. Had the second sitting in my cupboard for years and might finally give it a read once I've finished this Silk Roads book which is taking me weeks to finish
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
CBM - nice summary of the forestation stuff. Bow to your knowledge on that but you just know rich folk and lobbyists have been in the ear of politicos saying 'make it any tree, don't proscribe native only, then we can make 5% more margin on Canadian Spruce' or suchlike.
Also, we've all benefitted from cheap Chinese labour but have no influence over them a) cos they don't give a fck b) cos we are too dependent. No obvious strategy to spread that dependency. A few relative toe dips around SE Asia and India but ouch, their wages mean we lose 5% margin.....again.
It is why govs need to be strong but are inevitably weak in the light of voter popularity and MONEY!
Ha! See Ginger's manor has been targeted by the ER nutters today. They must be heading this way?
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 18 minutes ago
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The guy that made me aware of environmentalism back when I was 14 was my first employer who owns a local organic farm. He's been mad about it since he was in his twenties and he's past retirment age now.
Shared the story a few times about when he destroyed a load of crops in some GM fields, only to find out they got one of the fields wrong due to it being pitch black at night, and destroyed a heap of organic crop at the same time by accident
Went to jail for a few weeks for contempt of court as he refused to, erm, grass his pals in.
Was reading the other week that China's economy is showing early signs that it could be stagnating due to massive costs involved with their ageing population, low birth rate, increasing middle class which has led to wage rises and a reducing lower/under class that can be exploited, and also the fact they are on the brink of a credit crunch due to their central bank(s) over lending to construction firms who've been wasting it all on vanity projects/skyscrapers whilst pocketing and laundering large sums of those loans for themselves. Apparently loads of those buildings are falling apart or in need of maintenance already.
Why there's allegedly been such a clampdown by the President on corruption. Apparently if their economy slows and takes a massive hit, it'll have huge implications on the world economy. Most of the explanation went right over my head, but I assume that because we do so much trade with them across huge areas of our own economy.. any hit to them would be passed on?
All speculation of course as is most macro-economics and trade. Been interesting to read over the past few weeks that there were massive credit crunched back in medieval/middle ages times which affected global trade, bankrupting dynasties and nations, and directly leading to wars. Seems humanitytruly does have a propensity to repeat it's mistakes over and over
Still tinkering at the edges - forests and methane. Xi, Bolsonaro, Putin will all carry on as per and the developed world will be complicit. Modi and Biden show up but won't move fast enough. Ditto most of Europe.
Trillions to prevent the deaths of some old people - no problem. To reverse climate change, er, cough, shuffle. Way it goes.
Was it not yourself Silver who mentioned you used to do a fair bit of business with Chinese firms back in the day and they were a total nightmare as everyone was demanding kickbacks?
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 9 seconds ago
Was it not yourself Silver who mentioned you used to do a fair bit of business with Chinese firms back in the day and they were a total nightmare as everyone was demanding kickbacks?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might have been but years and years ago I had it explained that it is so omnipresent in some cultures it is, well, their culture. Ingrained so much that they look at other countries and cant understand how anything ever gets done. Much of old Soviet, India, Prussia....ffs in India it's still ingrained to effectively buy your in-laws.
Obviously the whole of Africa too, China different because it is party led corruption
And absolutely we have it here too but upper-echelon bankers washing money from the -stans through London to get their slice.
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
I reckon we're probably on the brink of another global depression and recession. Quantitive Easing just kicked the can down the road without addressing the issues around there being too much credit/debt in the global and national economies.
Just takes one big trigger in one section of a vital world economy to lead to another cascade of everyone calling in debts that can't be met as it did in 07/08. Companies start folding and then trade takes a massive hit. The pandemic showed just how fragile trade already is.. as soon as one part of the JIT global trade system is affected, it slows everything down.. so you can only imagine what sections of national economies stagnating or collapsing would do to global trade.
Seems to be a lot of artificial wealth in the world today.
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 53 minutes ago
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but politicians know they just need to win the vote of stupid people. Hold on! Could we say that climate change will force people from Africa and the middle east to emigrate to the UK? And we will be overrun? Need a spin that will get through to the small minded majority.
People sh@tting on emerging countries, especially China, Brazil and India (not just on this forum but in general) are missing the point. It's not just about good vs evil or a lack of goodwill/money.
We've gotten much better at everything in the past millennium, but it's still just as friggin hard to align goals & interest of different countries, let alone people on an individual basis.
At the moment it's mainly us/the western world vs China, telling them they should also commit to net zero and basically stop/significantly slow developing their country. I don't believe China think that's fair at all and I agree seeing that still milions live below poverty and don't have acces to our levels of healthcare (not even talking about having a fair share of population 'allowing' to become middle class in the near future with ditto luxury/consumption patterns). Also not even talking about Africa because we and China both became good at keeping them as poor/underdeveloped countries.
Eventually they will figure out what's fair on a country level and it get's even harder. Because we as individuals might need to go back to for example living in tiny houses with max 1 airplane holiday per 2 years. And I'm not voluntarily giving up my comfort en joy if my 'muh freedumb' neighbour is freeriding just as anti-Vax l00nies are doing now.
So governments need to force ('legislate' their people to commit and I can already tell you neither that neighbour nor China as a country will just suck it up...
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody, but I alluded to our over-dependence. For all its ills, China offers an enormous, stable, trained and obedient workforce great at taking orders, useless at deciding for themselves - manna for most.
All true, Lerra but the West also enabled much of that rapid Chinese development by exporting technology via tech outposts (none more so than my ex-employer) that became core resources and the training of their workforce in our universities.
Africa is a fooking nut job of corruption, laziness and political ineptitude that nobody wants to use.
India has huge attractions but not the infrastructure. Funny story - I know a guy that was sent there to set up a low level clean room for trial manufacturing. They couldn't understand how flies were still getting in through the airlocks but over time they correlated it with the workforce. They eventually found they were coming in underneath the saris the women were wearing. They refused to wear trousers. Eventually they gave up.
And btw, that neighbour in China, you want to see the vast housing schemes to take the new middle class - makes ours look desirable. Not been for years now but you used to see them flying in when the smog was blown. Brutal.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/05/26/P14-130526-305.jpg
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody, but I alluded to our over-dependence. For all its ills, China offers an enormous, stable, trained and obedient workforce great at taking orders, useless at deciding for themselves - manna for most.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In my line of work we are definitely starting to see some customers at least establishing a second source of supply for some things within the uk.
For some industries cost doesnt trump security of supply or quality - the pharma industry for one.
The risk of not getting something or the risk of getting something and it not meeting a spec and then having to deal with China over a quality issue are viewed as bigger risks to the supply chain than maybe paying 25% extra for the same component manufactured in the UK.
In my experience the changes in how big companies manage their supply chains is cyclical.
Lets rationalise our complex global network of manufacturingand single source key products from one site instead of making the same thing in ireland, the us and singapore. A few years down the line....there is a major issue at the one site we now manufacture critical products at and supply is interrupted. Lets go back to multi sourcing.
Lets outsource manufacture of as much as we can to china and india because its so cheap and close down our uk sites. Few years down the line - theres a big H&S or environmental issue in China/India which has significantly interrupted supply and escallated the risk rating of that operation - lets go back to investing in UK sites that were earmarked for closure.
True stories.
It wont be the same for all industries where margins are tight but high margin industries like pharma can afford to pay a bit more to have at worst a second source of supply in the UK in order to manage the risk in the supply chain.
I believe you Fash - my biz was car electronics. Ask them to qualify a 2nd source and they'd bleat like crazy and try and charge you for their work. Earthquake in Sendai - boom. Car CEOs asking questions gets progress in these situations but the root cause is the middle management over-working the junior management to achieve the unrealistic goals set by upper management so the nice to do gets lost.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 5 minutes ago
All true, Lerra but the West also enabled much of that rapid Chinese development by exporting technology via tech outposts (none more so than my ex-employer) that became core resources and the training of their workforce in our universities.
Africa is a fooking nut job of corruption, laziness and political ineptitude that nobody wants to use.
India has huge attractions but not the infrastructure. Funny story - I know a guy that was sent there to set up a low level clean room for trial manufacturing. They couldn't understand how flies were still getting in through the airlocks but over time they correlated it with the workforce. They eventually found they were coming in underneath the saris the women were wearing. They refused to wear trousers. Eventually they gave up.
And btw, that neighbour in China, you want to see the vast housing schemes to take the new middle class - makes ours look desirable. Not been for years now but you used to see them flying in when the smog was blown. Brutal.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/05/26/P14-130526-305.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
China also a huge player in the London housing market. Loads of developments have either stalled or not even begun as their credit crunch looms ever closer. Will have a huge knock-on effect to our housing market, especially if other developers can buy up their land and proposed projects at a fraction of the cost the Chinese paid for them a few years ago.
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Cop26
Page 4 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 2/11/21
comment by Hot Shot Hamish (U21959)
posted 7 minutes ago
The new Dune was excellent IMO
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watched it twice on the telly and going to the cinema tomorrow to see it. My birthday treat to myself
posted on 2/11/21
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 10 minutes ago
PointyDune was published in 1965 and there has been an 80s movie (with Sting in it) and a television mini-series as well as it being a well discussed classic sci-fi novel than spawned a saga with 5 other books then when the author died his son wrote over 12 more, so you can gtf by pretending not to know what happens in this film
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh really?
I was thinking about buying the book, but fvcked if I'm going to read a bajillion of them.
posted on 2/11/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by JFK - The Rebel Treble (U8919)
posted 24 minutes ago
Sadly, I believe COP26 is no more than a meeting of the peoples front of judea.
"ORETTA: I agree. It's action that counts, not words, and we need action now.
COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!
REG: You're right. We could sit around here all day talking, passing resolutions, making clever speeches. It's not going to shift one Roman soldier!
FRANCIS: So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!
COMMANDOS: Right!
LORETTA: I agree. This is a complete waste of time.
bam
JUDITH: They've arrested Brian!
REG: What?
COMMANDOS: What?
JUDITH: They've dragged him off! They're going to crucify him!
REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.
What should be concerning for environmentalists (and us all by extension) is th fact that this is the 26th of these global UN meetings to discuss what we're doing to the environment.. and it's still getting worse
The first of these meetings was 26 years ago. Already many promises made at previous meetings (including the last one in Paris) haven't been met. Deforestation being a major one.
Politicians making targets that are a generation away knowing that many of the tough decisions and policies that need to be made are unpopular with voters given we've had, and been promised nothing but growth for the past 150 years. Kicking the can along and passing the buck to someone else in the near future, who will undoubtedly do the same until it's too late.
Won't change until we've used up all of our oil and gas reserves globally and these sectors (energy providers) are forced into change as politicians are both tribalists and toothless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And I am far from convinced a shouty sweary teenager standing in a crowd in Glasgow singing 'you can shove your climate crisis up your erchie' is going to change that.
I am not criticising her or her efforts - I am far from convinced she will turn out to be one of the most important people of the 21st century.
Shes like a player thats outstanding at youth level. There no guarantees she can make the step up to first team eco activism.
posted on 2/11/21
I'm the same Hamish.. all credit to Greta for doing what she does, but until we all start singing from the same hymn sheet and start making our feelings known through the power of the vote, then politicians will continue to feel they can get away with doing the bare minimum.
Bill Maher read a stat/poll out on his show.. over 50% of Americans want tougher action from politicians to tackle climate change, but only 30% would support a targeted tax which would add $100 a year to their tax bill. It's that indifference that politicians capitalise on.. and that selfish, short sighted attitude from most people that ensures no real change will happen
End of the day, most folk care about too many other issues before the environment (and rightly so.. price of food and energy, rent/mortgage, childcare etc).
It's why our toothless politicians will get away with it. Assuming the younger generation(s) such as this Gen Z lot do start and continue to demand that the environment be up there as one of the frontline issues, and start voting for the Green Party or parties who promise really green/environmental policies then they too will continue to be a part of the problem.
posted on 2/11/21
comment by PointyBirds (U21890)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by lexballielegend (U22335)
posted 10 minutes ago
PointyDune was published in 1965 and there has been an 80s movie (with Sting in it) and a television mini-series as well as it being a well discussed classic sci-fi novel than spawned a saga with 5 other books then when the author died his son wrote over 12 more, so you can gtf by pretending not to know what happens in this film
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh really?
I was thinking about buying the book, but fvcked if I'm going to read a bajillion of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've only read the first. Listened to it on audiobook first and I'd recommend that as it's quite good, with different voice actors for different roles and some added wee sound effects to help immerse you into it. Was great for driving along and listening to when that was a large part of my work.
Apparently the first three are a trilogy of sorts and then it starts getting really batshiit crazy. Had the second sitting in my cupboard for years and might finally give it a read once I've finished this Silk Roads book which is taking me weeks to finish
posted on 2/11/21
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
posted on 2/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/11/21
CBM - nice summary of the forestation stuff. Bow to your knowledge on that but you just know rich folk and lobbyists have been in the ear of politicos saying 'make it any tree, don't proscribe native only, then we can make 5% more margin on Canadian Spruce' or suchlike.
Also, we've all benefitted from cheap Chinese labour but have no influence over them a) cos they don't give a fck b) cos we are too dependent. No obvious strategy to spread that dependency. A few relative toe dips around SE Asia and India but ouch, their wages mean we lose 5% margin.....again.
It is why govs need to be strong but are inevitably weak in the light of voter popularity and MONEY!
posted on 2/11/21
Ha! See Ginger's manor has been targeted by the ER nutters today. They must be heading this way?
posted on 2/11/21
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 18 minutes ago
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The guy that made me aware of environmentalism back when I was 14 was my first employer who owns a local organic farm. He's been mad about it since he was in his twenties and he's past retirment age now.
Shared the story a few times about when he destroyed a load of crops in some GM fields, only to find out they got one of the fields wrong due to it being pitch black at night, and destroyed a heap of organic crop at the same time by accident
Went to jail for a few weeks for contempt of court as he refused to, erm, grass his pals in.
posted on 2/11/21
Was reading the other week that China's economy is showing early signs that it could be stagnating due to massive costs involved with their ageing population, low birth rate, increasing middle class which has led to wage rises and a reducing lower/under class that can be exploited, and also the fact they are on the brink of a credit crunch due to their central bank(s) over lending to construction firms who've been wasting it all on vanity projects/skyscrapers whilst pocketing and laundering large sums of those loans for themselves. Apparently loads of those buildings are falling apart or in need of maintenance already.
Why there's allegedly been such a clampdown by the President on corruption. Apparently if their economy slows and takes a massive hit, it'll have huge implications on the world economy. Most of the explanation went right over my head, but I assume that because we do so much trade with them across huge areas of our own economy.. any hit to them would be passed on?
All speculation of course as is most macro-economics and trade. Been interesting to read over the past few weeks that there were massive credit crunched back in medieval/middle ages times which affected global trade, bankrupting dynasties and nations, and directly leading to wars. Seems humanitytruly does have a propensity to repeat it's mistakes over and over
posted on 2/11/21
Still tinkering at the edges - forests and methane. Xi, Bolsonaro, Putin will all carry on as per and the developed world will be complicit. Modi and Biden show up but won't move fast enough. Ditto most of Europe.
Trillions to prevent the deaths of some old people - no problem. To reverse climate change, er, cough, shuffle. Way it goes.
posted on 2/11/21
Was it not yourself Silver who mentioned you used to do a fair bit of business with Chinese firms back in the day and they were a total nightmare as everyone was demanding kickbacks?
posted on 2/11/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 9 seconds ago
Was it not yourself Silver who mentioned you used to do a fair bit of business with Chinese firms back in the day and they were a total nightmare as everyone was demanding kickbacks?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might have been but years and years ago I had it explained that it is so omnipresent in some cultures it is, well, their culture. Ingrained so much that they look at other countries and cant understand how anything ever gets done. Much of old Soviet, India, Prussia....ffs in India it's still ingrained to effectively buy your in-laws.
posted on 2/11/21
Obviously the whole of Africa too, China different because it is party led corruption
And absolutely we have it here too but upper-echelon bankers washing money from the -stans through London to get their slice.
posted on 2/11/21
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
posted on 2/11/21
I reckon we're probably on the brink of another global depression and recession. Quantitive Easing just kicked the can down the road without addressing the issues around there being too much credit/debt in the global and national economies.
Just takes one big trigger in one section of a vital world economy to lead to another cascade of everyone calling in debts that can't be met as it did in 07/08. Companies start folding and then trade takes a massive hit. The pandemic showed just how fragile trade already is.. as soon as one part of the JIT global trade system is affected, it slows everything down.. so you can only imagine what sections of national economies stagnating or collapsing would do to global trade.
Seems to be a lot of artificial wealth in the world today.
posted on 2/11/21
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
posted on 2/11/21
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 53 minutes ago
You can argue about her methods and her overall arguments, but what Greta has done very well is get environmentalism on the agenda of the politicians and on the front page of papers.
Environmental used to be seen as the domain of long haired hippy types, but she's helped make it an important topic and something that needs urgently addressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but politicians know they just need to win the vote of stupid people. Hold on! Could we say that climate change will force people from Africa and the middle east to emigrate to the UK? And we will be overrun? Need a spin that will get through to the small minded majority.
posted on 2/11/21
People sh@tting on emerging countries, especially China, Brazil and India (not just on this forum but in general) are missing the point. It's not just about good vs evil or a lack of goodwill/money.
We've gotten much better at everything in the past millennium, but it's still just as friggin hard to align goals & interest of different countries, let alone people on an individual basis.
At the moment it's mainly us/the western world vs China, telling them they should also commit to net zero and basically stop/significantly slow developing their country. I don't believe China think that's fair at all and I agree seeing that still milions live below poverty and don't have acces to our levels of healthcare (not even talking about having a fair share of population 'allowing' to become middle class in the near future with ditto luxury/consumption patterns). Also not even talking about Africa because we and China both became good at keeping them as poor/underdeveloped countries.
Eventually they will figure out what's fair on a country level and it get's even harder. Because we as individuals might need to go back to for example living in tiny houses with max 1 airplane holiday per 2 years. And I'm not voluntarily giving up my comfort en joy if my 'muh freedumb' neighbour is freeriding just as anti-Vax l00nies are doing now.
So governments need to force ('legislate' their people to commit and I can already tell you neither that neighbour nor China as a country will just suck it up...
posted on 2/11/21
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody, but I alluded to our over-dependence. For all its ills, China offers an enormous, stable, trained and obedient workforce great at taking orders, useless at deciding for themselves - manna for most.
posted on 2/11/21
All true, Lerra but the West also enabled much of that rapid Chinese development by exporting technology via tech outposts (none more so than my ex-employer) that became core resources and the training of their workforce in our universities.
Africa is a fooking nut job of corruption, laziness and political ineptitude that nobody wants to use.
India has huge attractions but not the infrastructure. Funny story - I know a guy that was sent there to set up a low level clean room for trial manufacturing. They couldn't understand how flies were still getting in through the airlocks but over time they correlated it with the workforce. They eventually found they were coming in underneath the saris the women were wearing. They refused to wear trousers. Eventually they gave up.
And btw, that neighbour in China, you want to see the vast housing schemes to take the new middle class - makes ours look desirable. Not been for years now but you used to see them flying in when the smog was blown. Brutal.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/05/26/P14-130526-305.jpg
posted on 2/11/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by JukeboxJunkie (U10162)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
Stop dealing with China?
Ok. Where will we get our products from? Because there sure as hell isn’t anywhere else that provides them in cheap abundance and no; companies and customers won’t pay more.
Pipe dream.
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Who said that?
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Nobody, but I alluded to our over-dependence. For all its ills, China offers an enormous, stable, trained and obedient workforce great at taking orders, useless at deciding for themselves - manna for most.
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In my line of work we are definitely starting to see some customers at least establishing a second source of supply for some things within the uk.
For some industries cost doesnt trump security of supply or quality - the pharma industry for one.
The risk of not getting something or the risk of getting something and it not meeting a spec and then having to deal with China over a quality issue are viewed as bigger risks to the supply chain than maybe paying 25% extra for the same component manufactured in the UK.
In my experience the changes in how big companies manage their supply chains is cyclical.
Lets rationalise our complex global network of manufacturingand single source key products from one site instead of making the same thing in ireland, the us and singapore. A few years down the line....there is a major issue at the one site we now manufacture critical products at and supply is interrupted. Lets go back to multi sourcing.
Lets outsource manufacture of as much as we can to china and india because its so cheap and close down our uk sites. Few years down the line - theres a big H&S or environmental issue in China/India which has significantly interrupted supply and escallated the risk rating of that operation - lets go back to investing in UK sites that were earmarked for closure.
True stories.
It wont be the same for all industries where margins are tight but high margin industries like pharma can afford to pay a bit more to have at worst a second source of supply in the UK in order to manage the risk in the supply chain.
posted on 2/11/21
I believe you Fash - my biz was car electronics. Ask them to qualify a 2nd source and they'd bleat like crazy and try and charge you for their work. Earthquake in Sendai - boom. Car CEOs asking questions gets progress in these situations but the root cause is the middle management over-working the junior management to achieve the unrealistic goals set by upper management so the nice to do gets lost.
posted on 2/11/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 5 minutes ago
All true, Lerra but the West also enabled much of that rapid Chinese development by exporting technology via tech outposts (none more so than my ex-employer) that became core resources and the training of their workforce in our universities.
Africa is a fooking nut job of corruption, laziness and political ineptitude that nobody wants to use.
India has huge attractions but not the infrastructure. Funny story - I know a guy that was sent there to set up a low level clean room for trial manufacturing. They couldn't understand how flies were still getting in through the airlocks but over time they correlated it with the workforce. They eventually found they were coming in underneath the saris the women were wearing. They refused to wear trousers. Eventually they gave up.
And btw, that neighbour in China, you want to see the vast housing schemes to take the new middle class - makes ours look desirable. Not been for years now but you used to see them flying in when the smog was blown. Brutal.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/05/26/P14-130526-305.jpg
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China also a huge player in the London housing market. Loads of developments have either stalled or not even begun as their credit crunch looms ever closer. Will have a huge knock-on effect to our housing market, especially if other developers can buy up their land and proposed projects at a fraction of the cost the Chinese paid for them a few years ago.
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