We have had the worst midfield in the top 10 ( maybe top 15 now). For 5 years now. At the end it has completely been ignored by our managers? Or upper management since it's not a position with lots of marketing potential. It makes no sense to me. The last midfielder we bought is Fred. Signed VDB and are now trying to convert him into a midfielder.
I have at least 5 articles on how sheit our midfield is and everytime the response was something like " the squad is good enough".
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
Yep, certainly need a better midfield. One of the things Shaw mentioned yesterday was that there weren't any passing options. I didn't see the whole game, as I was at the cinema. Were the midfielders hiding.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
Yep, certainly need a better midfield. One of the things Shaw mentioned yesterday was that there weren't any passing options. I didn't see the whole game, as I was at the cinema. Were the midfielders hiding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, even though they were shiiiit, they weren’t helped by the manager. Setting up against a 3 man midfield was suicide.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
United need to be ruthless in the summer and really make some major changes. No player should be safe.
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to go all out and offer him the world.
The two central midfield spots and the full backs are our biggest problems imo. Whilst Maguire has been poor at the back, it hasn't helped him how easily we are gotten at through the middle of the pitch.
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch. None of our attackers are overly wide players so the width from the fullbacks is crucial.
If we don't sign at least one cm or cdm who is comfortable on the ball and can make a pass this Jan, I don't think there's any chance of top 4. How we are favourites is beyond me when we've been outplayed by relegation candidates over xmas.
After the ownership, Robb, obviously
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? ... (U22716)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to go all out and offer him the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the mistake we have been consistently making.
Giving players the world and they slack off.
It's always the way. More players have "made it" and gone to pot than continued to be consistent. For every Ronaldo and Messi there has been a ronaldhino and Neymar.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. System is key. We don't have world class midfielders but they would look a lot better if the team shape was excellent. In Solskjaer's twilight days Fred and McT had an impossible job with the chasm of space they were asked to patrol. Under Rangnick things haven't improved but it takes a while to turn around a super-tanker and about a third of the time since his appointment he hasn't been able to train due to Covid.
Midfield has been criminally neglected for ages and upgrades are necessary. One thing that interests me is whether the kinds of players we would look for to improve us now are different from the ideal player to improve Solskjaer's 4-2-3-1. In the summer it struck me that we basically needed a world class, much more mobile version of Matic, who could sweep up effectively and recycle the ball quickly and cleverly, to play next to a more box-to-box midfielder. In a high pressing game plan I'm not sure the 'regista' is so important: I think Rangnick will be after athletes who can sprint for 90 minutes and execute to the letter the pressing demands.
Paradoxically, while there's a lot more quality in our attack and a lot more scope to upgrade our midfield, I think it's the attack at the moment that needs the most fixing in terms of executing the required game plan and shape. Fred was our best (and most Rangnick-esque) player in the win against Palace, McTominay was man of the match against Burnley. Cavani is the only forward who looks as though he really understands the movement required. But hopefully a few weeks of coaching will improve effectiveness of the front four in terms of our overall shape.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 minutes ago
The two central midfield spots and the full backs are our biggest problems imo. Whilst Maguire has been poor at the back, it hasn't helped him how easily we are gotten at through the middle of the pitch.
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch. None of our attackers are overly wide players so the width from the fullbacks is crucial.
If we don't sign at least one cm or cdm who is comfortable on the ball and can make a pass this Jan, I don't think there's any chance of top 4. How we are favourites is beyond me when we've been outplayed by relegation candidates over xmas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone made a comment on my Whatsapp group last night that Neves and Semedo would walk into our team now. I think you could add Moutinho to that as well. Last night was a shocking match and I can only hope it was our 'Burnley 2020' moment.
For those that want to believe in omens though Tuchel's first defeat at Chelsea came v a team from the black country...
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static. Not saying the forwards are being lazy. It's a new system and it takes a while to get on each other's wavelength so forwards have a sense of what run the midfielder is looking for and midfielders are confident the run is going to happen. This is another thing that should improve with coaching and training.
I think part of our problem at the moment is that we are just so easy to play against.
I hate using them as an example but even when Liverpool were really poor you'd go to Anfield and they'd make you really uncomfortable in the opening stages (only game I remember not being is under LVG in 2015 when we were excellent) just be being in your face. If you're not the most talented then you can certainly look to disrupt the opposition. All too often in recent years though we've been far too passive from the start which allows teams to grow into the game.
Fred could be a vital player in that respect. Between him and McT I think we could get away with playing one of them in the B2B but we do need a better, more defensive minded and technical player for the deeper position. I'm presuming here that Bruno comes back in as the AM/No10.
Last summer I felt a quality DM was the priority signing and I still stand by that. How a club like United have allowed themselves to exist with the set of midfielders we currently have is an absolute travesty.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
correct. this is why people who claim that pogba "loves to take too many touches" are talking cobblers, his first instinct is always to pass forwards - if you watch him he will look up to see what is on - but it is shocking how many times there is no good forward pass to be made. the general movement of our forwards, both individually, and as a collective, is frequently appalling.
I'm not clever enough about formations to fully assess the merits of the following, but...
I've seen some tactics geeks (who tend to be pretty sceptical about Ronaldo, which obviously plays to my prejudice) suggesting Bruno as part of the front two. I'd be really interested to see this. If you compare the pros and cons of playing him instead of Ronaldo in the front two:
Pressing - lots of effort instead of someone who has to pick when to sprint.
Finishing - pretty good, but not as good as Ronaldo (particularly in the air).
Interplay / creativity on overlap - superior to Ronaldo, less 'shoot on sight' policy.
There is always a trade-off when you don't have Ronaldo on the pitch, but I think if you have a front four of e.g. Fernandes, Cavani, Sancho and Greenwood, there's a lot of energy, movement, creativity and goal scoring ability, and the energy and movement in particular will benefit our midfield and defence.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
I'm not clever enough about formations to fully assess the merits of the following, but...
I've seen some tactics geeks (who tend to be pretty sceptical about Ronaldo, which obviously plays to my prejudice) suggesting Bruno as part of the front two. I'd be really interested to see this. If you compare the pros and cons of playing him instead of Ronaldo in the front two:
Pressing - lots of effort instead of someone who has to pick when to sprint.
Finishing - pretty good, but not as good as Ronaldo (particularly in the air).
Interplay / creativity on overlap - superior to Ronaldo, less 'shoot on sight' policy.
There is always a trade-off when you don't have Ronaldo on the pitch, but I think if you have a front four of e.g. Fernandes, Cavani, Sancho and Greenwood, there's a lot of energy, movement, creativity and goal scoring ability, and the energy and movement in particular will benefit our midfield and defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 28 minutes ago
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static. Not saying the forwards are being lazy. It's a new system and it takes a while to get on each other's wavelength so forwards have a sense of what run the midfielder is looking for and midfielders are confident the run is going to happen. This is another thing that should improve with coaching and training.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's been quite a few occasions where a through ball has been on, which our mids do see, but don't have the confidence or ability to make the pass.
There's been quite a few occasions where a through ball has been on, which our mids do see, but don't have the confidence or ability to make the pass.
------------------------------------------------------------
There have been some, but again I think it's not simply a case of 'bad midfielders: need upgrade' but of getting those combined team movements into the muscle memory of the side. That requires both more proactivity / bravery on the part of the midfielders and more anticipation and showing for passes on the part of the front four. In our better performances under Rangnick I've seen McTominay (against Burnley) and Fred (against Palace) passing the ball forward through the lines a lot more often than they used to. We need a lot more of that, and I do think it will improve, just more slowly than we perhaps hoped after the Palace game.
It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
----------------------------------------------------------
Hey, don't put words in my mouth Diafol!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
----------------------------------------------------------
Hey, don't put words in my mouth Diafol!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On your other point of passing between the lines Phil Jones did that last night to be fair I thought. If he could stay fit I certainly don't think he's any worse than Maguire as a CB. Perhaps Jones can be our new DM!
Sign Rice & McGinn and make one captain.
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Our midfield is the biggest issue
Page 1 of 2
posted on 4/1/22
We have had the worst midfield in the top 10 ( maybe top 15 now). For 5 years now. At the end it has completely been ignored by our managers? Or upper management since it's not a position with lots of marketing potential. It makes no sense to me. The last midfielder we bought is Fred. Signed VDB and are now trying to convert him into a midfielder.
I have at least 5 articles on how sheit our midfield is and everytime the response was something like " the squad is good enough".
posted on 4/1/22
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
posted on 4/1/22
Yep, certainly need a better midfield. One of the things Shaw mentioned yesterday was that there weren't any passing options. I didn't see the whole game, as I was at the cinema. Were the midfielders hiding.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
Yep, certainly need a better midfield. One of the things Shaw mentioned yesterday was that there weren't any passing options. I didn't see the whole game, as I was at the cinema. Were the midfielders hiding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, even though they were shiiiit, they weren’t helped by the manager. Setting up against a 3 man midfield was suicide.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
posted on 4/1/22
United need to be ruthless in the summer and really make some major changes. No player should be safe.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to go all out and offer him the world.
posted on 4/1/22
The two central midfield spots and the full backs are our biggest problems imo. Whilst Maguire has been poor at the back, it hasn't helped him how easily we are gotten at through the middle of the pitch.
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch. None of our attackers are overly wide players so the width from the fullbacks is crucial.
If we don't sign at least one cm or cdm who is comfortable on the ball and can make a pass this Jan, I don't think there's any chance of top 4. How we are favourites is beyond me when we've been outplayed by relegation candidates over xmas.
posted on 4/1/22
After the ownership, Robb, obviously
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? ... (U22716)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Labuschagne - ‘Need a rapid test? Play the English cricket team..’ (U22716)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we are going to play with Bruno, I think that Ronaldo becomes a problem. Neither are going to offer much defensively. Can we carry both in a team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can with two hard working midfielders behind them. For example….
In a 433..
Rice Bruno McGinn
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
(I know I’m one of only a few McGinnaholics on here but it’s just a name I quickly picked. Replace that with your own hard working midfielder).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice is looking more and more like a must for us. Going to be hard if Chelsea are interested though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to go all out and offer him the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the mistake we have been consistently making.
Giving players the world and they slack off.
It's always the way. More players have "made it" and gone to pot than continued to be consistent. For every Ronaldo and Messi there has been a ronaldhino and Neymar.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - It's Beekers! (U2958)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think the first thing we need to decide, as a club, is what or mid/long term goals are in terms of style and formation and then aggressively go after the midfielders for the role.
If we are to build the team around Bruno, for instance, we know we probably need two #6s behind him. McT and Fred are good squad options, but we need two quality first team CMs. Let Pogba go, idealy for a bit of cash this window. He will never work alongside a bruno type over a full season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. System is key. We don't have world class midfielders but they would look a lot better if the team shape was excellent. In Solskjaer's twilight days Fred and McT had an impossible job with the chasm of space they were asked to patrol. Under Rangnick things haven't improved but it takes a while to turn around a super-tanker and about a third of the time since his appointment he hasn't been able to train due to Covid.
Midfield has been criminally neglected for ages and upgrades are necessary. One thing that interests me is whether the kinds of players we would look for to improve us now are different from the ideal player to improve Solskjaer's 4-2-3-1. In the summer it struck me that we basically needed a world class, much more mobile version of Matic, who could sweep up effectively and recycle the ball quickly and cleverly, to play next to a more box-to-box midfielder. In a high pressing game plan I'm not sure the 'regista' is so important: I think Rangnick will be after athletes who can sprint for 90 minutes and execute to the letter the pressing demands.
Paradoxically, while there's a lot more quality in our attack and a lot more scope to upgrade our midfield, I think it's the attack at the moment that needs the most fixing in terms of executing the required game plan and shape. Fred was our best (and most Rangnick-esque) player in the win against Palace, McTominay was man of the match against Burnley. Cavani is the only forward who looks as though he really understands the movement required. But hopefully a few weeks of coaching will improve effectiveness of the front four in terms of our overall shape.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 minutes ago
The two central midfield spots and the full backs are our biggest problems imo. Whilst Maguire has been poor at the back, it hasn't helped him how easily we are gotten at through the middle of the pitch.
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch. None of our attackers are overly wide players so the width from the fullbacks is crucial.
If we don't sign at least one cm or cdm who is comfortable on the ball and can make a pass this Jan, I don't think there's any chance of top 4. How we are favourites is beyond me when we've been outplayed by relegation candidates over xmas.
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Someone made a comment on my Whatsapp group last night that Neves and Semedo would walk into our team now. I think you could add Moutinho to that as well. Last night was a shocking match and I can only hope it was our 'Burnley 2020' moment.
For those that want to believe in omens though Tuchel's first defeat at Chelsea came v a team from the black country...
posted on 4/1/22
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
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I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static. Not saying the forwards are being lazy. It's a new system and it takes a while to get on each other's wavelength so forwards have a sense of what run the midfielder is looking for and midfielders are confident the run is going to happen. This is another thing that should improve with coaching and training.
posted on 4/1/22
I think part of our problem at the moment is that we are just so easy to play against.
I hate using them as an example but even when Liverpool were really poor you'd go to Anfield and they'd make you really uncomfortable in the opening stages (only game I remember not being is under LVG in 2015 when we were excellent) just be being in your face. If you're not the most talented then you can certainly look to disrupt the opposition. All too often in recent years though we've been far too passive from the start which allows teams to grow into the game.
Fred could be a vital player in that respect. Between him and McT I think we could get away with playing one of them in the B2B but we do need a better, more defensive minded and technical player for the deeper position. I'm presuming here that Bruno comes back in as the AM/No10.
posted on 4/1/22
Last summer I felt a quality DM was the priority signing and I still stand by that. How a club like United have allowed themselves to exist with the set of midfielders we currently have is an absolute travesty.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
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I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static.
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correct. this is why people who claim that pogba "loves to take too many touches" are talking cobblers, his first instinct is always to pass forwards - if you watch him he will look up to see what is on - but it is shocking how many times there is no good forward pass to be made. the general movement of our forwards, both individually, and as a collective, is frequently appalling.
posted on 4/1/22
I'm not clever enough about formations to fully assess the merits of the following, but...
I've seen some tactics geeks (who tend to be pretty sceptical about Ronaldo, which obviously plays to my prejudice) suggesting Bruno as part of the front two. I'd be really interested to see this. If you compare the pros and cons of playing him instead of Ronaldo in the front two:
Pressing - lots of effort instead of someone who has to pick when to sprint.
Finishing - pretty good, but not as good as Ronaldo (particularly in the air).
Interplay / creativity on overlap - superior to Ronaldo, less 'shoot on sight' policy.
There is always a trade-off when you don't have Ronaldo on the pitch, but I think if you have a front four of e.g. Fernandes, Cavani, Sancho and Greenwood, there's a lot of energy, movement, creativity and goal scoring ability, and the energy and movement in particular will benefit our midfield and defence.
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
I'm not clever enough about formations to fully assess the merits of the following, but...
I've seen some tactics geeks (who tend to be pretty sceptical about Ronaldo, which obviously plays to my prejudice) suggesting Bruno as part of the front two. I'd be really interested to see this. If you compare the pros and cons of playing him instead of Ronaldo in the front two:
Pressing - lots of effort instead of someone who has to pick when to sprint.
Finishing - pretty good, but not as good as Ronaldo (particularly in the air).
Interplay / creativity on overlap - superior to Ronaldo, less 'shoot on sight' policy.
There is always a trade-off when you don't have Ronaldo on the pitch, but I think if you have a front four of e.g. Fernandes, Cavani, Sancho and Greenwood, there's a lot of energy, movement, creativity and goal scoring ability, and the energy and movement in particular will benefit our midfield and defence.
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It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 28 minutes ago
We have nobody in the middle of the park who can keep the ball let alone dictate the tempo of the game or make intelligent passes. Our fullbacks also keep failing to stop crosses coming into the box and are caught out positionally as well as not really offering much up the other end of the pitch.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying Fred, McTominay and Matic are prime Pirlo but movement of the front players is part of the problem. Over the Christmas period there have been loads of times when I've seen the midfielders receive the ball and shape to pass forward early and --- there's nothing on and everyone is static. Not saying the forwards are being lazy. It's a new system and it takes a while to get on each other's wavelength so forwards have a sense of what run the midfielder is looking for and midfielders are confident the run is going to happen. This is another thing that should improve with coaching and training.
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There's been quite a few occasions where a through ball has been on, which our mids do see, but don't have the confidence or ability to make the pass.
posted on 4/1/22
There's been quite a few occasions where a through ball has been on, which our mids do see, but don't have the confidence or ability to make the pass.
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There have been some, but again I think it's not simply a case of 'bad midfielders: need upgrade' but of getting those combined team movements into the muscle memory of the side. That requires both more proactivity / bravery on the part of the midfielders and more anticipation and showing for passes on the part of the front four. In our better performances under Rangnick I've seen McTominay (against Burnley) and Fred (against Palace) passing the ball forward through the lines a lot more often than they used to. We need a lot more of that, and I do think it will improve, just more slowly than we perhaps hoped after the Palace game.
posted on 4/1/22
It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
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Hey, don't put words in my mouth Diafol!
posted on 4/1/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's almost like you're saying signing Ronaldo really disrupted the (little) planning we had!
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Hey, don't put words in my mouth Diafol!
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On your other point of passing between the lines Phil Jones did that last night to be fair I thought. If he could stay fit I certainly don't think he's any worse than Maguire as a CB. Perhaps Jones can be our new DM!
posted on 4/1/22
Sign Rice & McGinn and make one captain.
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