Be interesting to see if Bielsa sticks with Summerville .I doubt it.And the other 10 we’ll have no one left if Bielsa sticks to his guns .Worrying.
It's been reported several times this season that MB
sees the U23s as crucial to training (more than maybe
their involvement in the first team).
I would think being cannon fodder for murder ball is
not what most of these younger lads want.
Hasn't Leif Davis just won player of the month for Bournemouth. I suspect that Leeds fans could have had an influence on that if public vote, but he had to have earned a nomination first.
Anyway, big problems in the academy with Bielsa and I have reason to believe it's been brewing for a while. Everyone is focusing on the obvious game time issue. But I have heard this is to do with Bielsa's communication methods of lack of. The cold nature of his management technique makes it very difficult for certain personalities, especially the young lads coming through. They definitely are not used to it. Drameh, we know is quiet and shy and is someone that needs an arm round the shoulder and encouragement, Bielsa just doesn't offer this. I think it showed when Drameh played in the first team and he couldn't enjoy it. I don't blame him for leaving and wish him well. The players love Mark Jackson, but didn't particularly like Corberan, apparently he is not as nice as the impression he gives. I don't know how integrated Jackson is with the first team compared to Corberan but maybe he needs to be around the first team set up more to aid the transition of those falling in limbo land between the 2 sides.
Listened to an interview with Cresswell's agent (among a few others in the side) and he explained how making the bench for the first team is one of the hardest times for a young player. Great to be on the bench but rarely getting minutes for the first team, as you would expect, but because of travel etc they end up hardly getting minutes for the u23s either. Mentally it's really difficult and obviously frustrating. Can be a hindrance on a players development also.
Of course depends on who the 10 want aways are. Does it include players like Bate, Greenwood and Cresswell who possibly have a future or like McKinstry, Allan and Kennah who probably don't.
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 minutes ago
Hasn't Leif Davis just won player of the month for Bournemouth. I suspect that Leeds fans could have had an influence on that if public vote, but he had to have earned a nomination first.
Anyway, big problems in the academy with Bielsa and I have reason to believe it's been brewing for a while. Everyone is focusing on the obvious game time issue. But I have heard this is to do with Bielsa's communication methods of lack of. The cold nature of his management technique makes it very difficult for certain personalities, especially the young lads coming through. They definitely are not used to it. Drameh, we know is quiet and shy and is someone that needs an arm round the shoulder and encouragement, Bielsa just doesn't offer this. I think it showed when Drameh played in the first team and he couldn't enjoy it. I don't blame him for leaving and wish him well. The players love Mark Jackson, but didn't particularly like Corberan, apparently he is not as nice as the impression he gives. I don't know how integrated Jackson is with the first team compared to Corberan but maybe he needs to be around the first team set up more to aid the transition of those falling in limbo land between the 2 sides.
Listened to an interview with Cresswell's agent (among a few others in the side) and he explained how making the bench for the first team is one of the hardest times for a young player. Great to be on the bench but rarely getting minutes for the first team, as you would expect, but because of travel etc they end up hardly getting minutes for the u23s either. Mentally it's really difficult and obviously frustrating. Can be a hindrance on a players development also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This has to be concerning for Radz/Orta and the upper
level of management. Whether we think Orta's been good or not, he and his scouting team have invested time and money into adding players to the system.
If they are quickly souring and wanting out, for whatever
reason, that is a very big issue. Long term.
I've said before but it seems nobody was interested, but Hsv Hamburg were in for Summerville, but couldn't agree to his wages!..
https://www.transfermarkt.de/berichte-hsv-verhandelt-mit-leeds-wegen-summerville-ndash-gehalt-wird-zum-knackpunkt/view/news/398909
You cant overpay a kid until he's earned his worth, so it makes you wonder what money our kids are on!..
10 is a lot. That's close to a max exodus considering how we run a small squad and the kids are the papers over the cracks. Can imagine central defenders wanting loans given how competitive we are there. We have half a team worth of talented CB's.
One issue seems to be that whenever we loan an u23 out they never come back and feature in the team. Many of them may see being loaned out as part of their development to be ready for the first team. However, we don't seem to do this. If a player is loaned out it seems to be the end of them. Many of the u23s might benefit from a proper loan / development system.
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
The fact that they knew the Bamford situation during Jan and didn’t move to rectify the situation was sacrelige.They didn’t have to spend huge money could have gotsomeonein his 30s that could score a few goals .Now its too late .The next two games are crucial.
Leif Davis recent past
18/12 v Boro. Not in the squad
27/12 v QPR. Not in the squad
30/12 v Cardiff. Unused substitute
08/01 v Yeovil. Started. Subbed off 84.
15/01 v Luton. Played 90
22/01 v Hull. Started subbed off 84.
29/01 v Barnsley. Unused substitute.
06/02 v Boreham. Played 90.
Seems he played the cup games and covered for Zemura for 2 league games also. February will tell us if he has broken into the side.
comment by tslufc (U12903)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve handed out 8 (EIGHT) debuts to teenagers this season. A premier league record.
Not sure what some of the young lads are expecting and not sure what some of the fans are smoking with their criticism on this one.
Think people are reading too much into this. My understanding is pretty much every u23 wants a loan ticket into man’s football… assuming they didn’t think there was a quick route to the first team at the place they were at.
The reasons are fairly obvious.
- from a personal perspective they want to actually play football
- from a career perspective they are all acutely aware that league football is a completely different game to 23s football… and that if they want a future in the pro game they need to prove themselves in the pro game.
On a separate point I think people need to reflect on the purpose of the academy. Orta copies the Seville model where he learnt his trade. The buy cheap sell big ethos doesn’t just apply to the 23s but it’s part of the master plan…
Build a string scouting network, Buy in young talent, hope some become first team players and save you a fortune (struijk gelhardt) - hope the best of the rest can turn a profit and help cover the costs of the program. Rinse and repeat.
The ones not deemed good enough or maybe good enough but in a position we don’t need are farmed out.
At other clubs some genuine talent is farmed out for experience with a view to returning but in our case bielsa prefers to be keep them close to home.
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by tslufc (U12903)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve handed out 8 (EIGHT) debuts to teenagers this season. A premier league record.
Not sure what some of the young lads are expecting and not sure what some of the fans are smoking with their criticism on this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. Because of catastrophic injury crisis. They have been dropped in ahead of schedule… some have shone some haven’t. But they know they won’t get a look in when everyone is back and some have had a look in and fancy more. To others it’s actually helped open doors and put them in the shop window.
For most of these guys… they’re just doing what their agent tells them.
Cresswell and hjelde looked genuine prospects… the others might well be but looked undercooked for premier league football to me. If they get offered half a season in league one/two? Personally wouldn’t blame them.
It’s how it is. I don’t see fault for either the club or the players on this one.
Summerville on fire tonight, pleased to see that.
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 4 minutes ago
Summerville on fire tonight, pleased to see that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking like he should be given more of an opportunity. He’s a much better dribbler than James
Mullen is having a cracking game too. Think he outshone Cresswell at the back 1st half.
comment by Sol (U2745)
posted 11 minutes ago
Mullen is having a cracking game too. Think he outshone Cresswell at the back 1st half.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, Cresser ok once he settled down.
Don’t know why anyone is surprised at this.
I’ve said it a number of times that it’s hard to keep fringe players happy if they feel no realistic chance of playing.
A few minutes here and there is not enough and players can’t justify going through intense training and not playing.
Secondly, people seem to think the U23s are world beaters.
They’re not., maybe a little less hype would help.
The thing that is not good is the fact they want to go snd Biejsa says he understands/no problem…just weeks after Kinnear said won’t sign players in case they hinder the youths progress….yet the youths aren’t progressing….they want to leave!
The thing that is not good is the fact they want to go snd Biejsa says he understands/no problem…just weeks after Kinnear said won’t sign players in case they hinder the youths progress….yet the youths aren’t progressing….they want to leave!
^^^^^
Situation nailed.
I said at the time Kinnear said that, that he was using one (not blocking progression of youth) to excuse the other (not signing anyone). There comes a point when
if it smells like a cow pat, it probably is.
A lot of the issues we have keep coming back to the squad size. We have had a situation for much of the season where with the need to have a 9 man bench and under 23 fixtures scheduled a day or two before a senior fixtures where we have chosen to either remove senior under 23 players (including Somerville) from their fixture or just play a half.
Not saying those players(with exception of Geldhart) should necessarily be seeing minutes but if then they do not feature they are not getting game time for either side on a no man's land between the two sides.
The impact on the under 23's aside from last night's promising result saw them in the bottom 2 backfilling players from under 18s which can't be great for morale amongst those lads.
Therefore ultimately the small squad and the need to fill the bench and remove that under 23 game time could actually hinder development rather than help it and I think that is perhaps where some of 'the ten' would be coming from.
A close thing, but I’d still rather have Kiko’s experience on the bench than Klaesson. Then again, what message would that send to Klaesson? Either way, all for the future right now. I think it would be worth accounting for another young goalkeeper.
We are so fortunate to have Meslier, but the thought of him getting injured sends shivers down the spine…
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posted on 7/2/22
Be interesting to see if Bielsa sticks with Summerville .I doubt it.And the other 10 we’ll have no one left if Bielsa sticks to his guns .Worrying.
posted on 7/2/22
It's been reported several times this season that MB
sees the U23s as crucial to training (more than maybe
their involvement in the first team).
I would think being cannon fodder for murder ball is
not what most of these younger lads want.
posted on 7/2/22
Hasn't Leif Davis just won player of the month for Bournemouth. I suspect that Leeds fans could have had an influence on that if public vote, but he had to have earned a nomination first.
Anyway, big problems in the academy with Bielsa and I have reason to believe it's been brewing for a while. Everyone is focusing on the obvious game time issue. But I have heard this is to do with Bielsa's communication methods of lack of. The cold nature of his management technique makes it very difficult for certain personalities, especially the young lads coming through. They definitely are not used to it. Drameh, we know is quiet and shy and is someone that needs an arm round the shoulder and encouragement, Bielsa just doesn't offer this. I think it showed when Drameh played in the first team and he couldn't enjoy it. I don't blame him for leaving and wish him well. The players love Mark Jackson, but didn't particularly like Corberan, apparently he is not as nice as the impression he gives. I don't know how integrated Jackson is with the first team compared to Corberan but maybe he needs to be around the first team set up more to aid the transition of those falling in limbo land between the 2 sides.
Listened to an interview with Cresswell's agent (among a few others in the side) and he explained how making the bench for the first team is one of the hardest times for a young player. Great to be on the bench but rarely getting minutes for the first team, as you would expect, but because of travel etc they end up hardly getting minutes for the u23s either. Mentally it's really difficult and obviously frustrating. Can be a hindrance on a players development also.
posted on 7/2/22
Of course depends on who the 10 want aways are. Does it include players like Bate, Greenwood and Cresswell who possibly have a future or like McKinstry, Allan and Kennah who probably don't.
posted on 7/2/22
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 minutes ago
Hasn't Leif Davis just won player of the month for Bournemouth. I suspect that Leeds fans could have had an influence on that if public vote, but he had to have earned a nomination first.
Anyway, big problems in the academy with Bielsa and I have reason to believe it's been brewing for a while. Everyone is focusing on the obvious game time issue. But I have heard this is to do with Bielsa's communication methods of lack of. The cold nature of his management technique makes it very difficult for certain personalities, especially the young lads coming through. They definitely are not used to it. Drameh, we know is quiet and shy and is someone that needs an arm round the shoulder and encouragement, Bielsa just doesn't offer this. I think it showed when Drameh played in the first team and he couldn't enjoy it. I don't blame him for leaving and wish him well. The players love Mark Jackson, but didn't particularly like Corberan, apparently he is not as nice as the impression he gives. I don't know how integrated Jackson is with the first team compared to Corberan but maybe he needs to be around the first team set up more to aid the transition of those falling in limbo land between the 2 sides.
Listened to an interview with Cresswell's agent (among a few others in the side) and he explained how making the bench for the first team is one of the hardest times for a young player. Great to be on the bench but rarely getting minutes for the first team, as you would expect, but because of travel etc they end up hardly getting minutes for the u23s either. Mentally it's really difficult and obviously frustrating. Can be a hindrance on a players development also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 7/2/22
This has to be concerning for Radz/Orta and the upper
level of management. Whether we think Orta's been good or not, he and his scouting team have invested time and money into adding players to the system.
If they are quickly souring and wanting out, for whatever
reason, that is a very big issue. Long term.
posted on 7/2/22
I've said before but it seems nobody was interested, but Hsv Hamburg were in for Summerville, but couldn't agree to his wages!..
https://www.transfermarkt.de/berichte-hsv-verhandelt-mit-leeds-wegen-summerville-ndash-gehalt-wird-zum-knackpunkt/view/news/398909
You cant overpay a kid until he's earned his worth, so it makes you wonder what money our kids are on!..
posted on 7/2/22
10 is a lot. That's close to a max exodus considering how we run a small squad and the kids are the papers over the cracks. Can imagine central defenders wanting loans given how competitive we are there. We have half a team worth of talented CB's.
posted on 7/2/22
One issue seems to be that whenever we loan an u23 out they never come back and feature in the team. Many of them may see being loaned out as part of their development to be ready for the first team. However, we don't seem to do this. If a player is loaned out it seems to be the end of them. Many of the u23s might benefit from a proper loan / development system.
posted on 7/2/22
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
posted on 7/2/22
The fact that they knew the Bamford situation during Jan and didn’t move to rectify the situation was sacrelige.They didn’t have to spend huge money could have gotsomeonein his 30s that could score a few goals .Now its too late .The next two games are crucial.
posted on 7/2/22
Leif Davis recent past
18/12 v Boro. Not in the squad
27/12 v QPR. Not in the squad
30/12 v Cardiff. Unused substitute
08/01 v Yeovil. Started. Subbed off 84.
15/01 v Luton. Played 90
22/01 v Hull. Started subbed off 84.
29/01 v Barnsley. Unused substitute.
06/02 v Boreham. Played 90.
Seems he played the cup games and covered for Zemura for 2 league games also. February will tell us if he has broken into the side.
posted on 7/2/22
comment by tslufc (U12903)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve handed out 8 (EIGHT) debuts to teenagers this season. A premier league record.
Not sure what some of the young lads are expecting and not sure what some of the fans are smoking with their criticism on this one.
posted on 7/2/22
Think people are reading too much into this. My understanding is pretty much every u23 wants a loan ticket into man’s football… assuming they didn’t think there was a quick route to the first team at the place they were at.
The reasons are fairly obvious.
- from a personal perspective they want to actually play football
- from a career perspective they are all acutely aware that league football is a completely different game to 23s football… and that if they want a future in the pro game they need to prove themselves in the pro game.
On a separate point I think people need to reflect on the purpose of the academy. Orta copies the Seville model where he learnt his trade. The buy cheap sell big ethos doesn’t just apply to the 23s but it’s part of the master plan…
Build a string scouting network, Buy in young talent, hope some become first team players and save you a fortune (struijk gelhardt) - hope the best of the rest can turn a profit and help cover the costs of the program. Rinse and repeat.
The ones not deemed good enough or maybe good enough but in a position we don’t need are farmed out.
At other clubs some genuine talent is farmed out for experience with a view to returning but in our case bielsa prefers to be keep them close to home.
posted on 7/2/22
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by tslufc (U12903)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
Taking in a lot of youth/U23 players seems to have been our way of working for quite a few years now. The idea behind it being they either come through into the first team if good enough or they are moved on perhaps to lower league teams but still at a profit to the club.
Maybe someone who keeps a better eye on the youth/U23 sides than I admit I do can give us an idea how this is working out.
I really do not know if we do any better or worse than other clubs regarding the proportion of our young players who "make it".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We’ve handed out 8 (EIGHT) debuts to teenagers this season. A premier league record.
Not sure what some of the young lads are expecting and not sure what some of the fans are smoking with their criticism on this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. Because of catastrophic injury crisis. They have been dropped in ahead of schedule… some have shone some haven’t. But they know they won’t get a look in when everyone is back and some have had a look in and fancy more. To others it’s actually helped open doors and put them in the shop window.
For most of these guys… they’re just doing what their agent tells them.
Cresswell and hjelde looked genuine prospects… the others might well be but looked undercooked for premier league football to me. If they get offered half a season in league one/two? Personally wouldn’t blame them.
It’s how it is. I don’t see fault for either the club or the players on this one.
posted on 7/2/22
Summerville on fire tonight, pleased to see that.
posted on 7/2/22
comment by Elsbels - The Specials' One (U21658)
posted 4 minutes ago
Summerville on fire tonight, pleased to see that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking like he should be given more of an opportunity. He’s a much better dribbler than James
posted on 7/2/22
Mullen is having a cracking game too. Think he outshone Cresswell at the back 1st half.
posted on 7/2/22
comment by Sol (U2745)
posted 11 minutes ago
Mullen is having a cracking game too. Think he outshone Cresswell at the back 1st half.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, Cresser ok once he settled down.
posted on 7/2/22
Don’t know why anyone is surprised at this.
I’ve said it a number of times that it’s hard to keep fringe players happy if they feel no realistic chance of playing.
A few minutes here and there is not enough and players can’t justify going through intense training and not playing.
Secondly, people seem to think the U23s are world beaters.
They’re not., maybe a little less hype would help.
The thing that is not good is the fact they want to go snd Biejsa says he understands/no problem…just weeks after Kinnear said won’t sign players in case they hinder the youths progress….yet the youths aren’t progressing….they want to leave!
posted on 7/2/22
The thing that is not good is the fact they want to go snd Biejsa says he understands/no problem…just weeks after Kinnear said won’t sign players in case they hinder the youths progress….yet the youths aren’t progressing….they want to leave!
^^^^^
Situation nailed.
I said at the time Kinnear said that, that he was using one (not blocking progression of youth) to excuse the other (not signing anyone). There comes a point when
if it smells like a cow pat, it probably is.
posted on 8/2/22
A lot of the issues we have keep coming back to the squad size. We have had a situation for much of the season where with the need to have a 9 man bench and under 23 fixtures scheduled a day or two before a senior fixtures where we have chosen to either remove senior under 23 players (including Somerville) from their fixture or just play a half.
Not saying those players(with exception of Geldhart) should necessarily be seeing minutes but if then they do not feature they are not getting game time for either side on a no man's land between the two sides.
The impact on the under 23's aside from last night's promising result saw them in the bottom 2 backfilling players from under 18s which can't be great for morale amongst those lads.
Therefore ultimately the small squad and the need to fill the bench and remove that under 23 game time could actually hinder development rather than help it and I think that is perhaps where some of 'the ten' would be coming from.
posted on 8/2/22
A close thing, but I’d still rather have Kiko’s experience on the bench than Klaesson. Then again, what message would that send to Klaesson? Either way, all for the future right now. I think it would be worth accounting for another young goalkeeper.
We are so fortunate to have Meslier, but the thought of him getting injured sends shivers down the spine…
Page 1 of 1