One thing that your post does not take into account, Jonty, is that Bielsa coaching theory and practice is now operating in uncharted territory: he has never stayed long enough at any one club for his theory and practice to be evaluating over the long term.
This is Year 4. The small squad has been weakened - perhaps fatally - by injuries. Money has not been spent. We are still in "augmented Championship" mode, rather than "consolidated Premiership" mode, it seems. Agree some of the seniors now look very jaded - Dallas, Klich and Ayling have literally run themselves into the ground
Some of Bielsa's tactics at times suggest he is utterly clueless, no Plan B, obstinately supporting struggling seniors - Roberts and Rodrigo, for example - when hungry U23s are champing at the bit.
The thing is, the difference in form from last year is just so astounding. Only occasionally have we seen glimpses of the beautifully urgent and relentless football we know these players are capable of.
Recently, Bielsa publicly took responsibility for the poor start to the season. He wasn't under pressure to do so - he just did it, in his typically honest fashion. I thought that was odd, almost like he was admitting he has his own doubts about his theory and practice of football coaching.
I also read somewhere the club was pressuring him to agree to commit beyond the end of this season. I don't know whether he has or not but if he hasn't, and the 49ers are taking over during the summer, then he can't expect to retain his position, surely.
I love the man and his theory and practices as much as any other fan but there is a huge element of doubt now growing about whether or not they are effective over the long term, particularly in this, the most financially deterministic competition in the world.
It's not enough to say we'd already be relegated without him as our coach if we are about to be relegated with him.
Agree totally with all that all the bielsas ringing commented previously.Interesting to see are changes coming.
6pts off 17th, look in the other direction and we're 6pts off 11th!..
I wonder what people would be saying if we'd had no injuries, red cards, international breaks or whatever else takes your players away?..
Leeds is one off the few that wanted to play on with half its first team missing while others wanted a break, I wonder what some think about that?..
People should also not forget that Bielsa has said in his own words he doesn't want unless its an improvement,(which usually isn't cheap!)and Radz has said he wants the academy to be used!..
So, which is it to be, do it the correct way?..
Or bust the club again?..
Rebuilding the club back up to what it was before Ridsdale takes time and money, but it seems people around here don't have the time but have too much money, I wonder in the real world how many of those of you's with the money would listen to those screaming at you to do it their way!..
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 15 hours, 9 minutes ago
Good thread Jonty. Nice to see some considered thoughts rather than knee jerk reactions.
ManU next. Be there or be square
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3pts and a relaxing Sunday evening please.
Jaz, have posted before about this being uncharted territory for him at club level, the other factor was lack of crowds, which had a significant factor in results last season.
Bielsa is getting on. Does he really want to have to start it all again somewhere, hope he gets integrity from owners etc etc?
I genuinely believe that his system can yield tangible results with better players and surely he'd like to prove that he can do it.
Changing manager would be suicidal.
I don’t think we have any money.
I’d cash in on our assets in the summer and rebuild.
More immediately - Man U will high press and if we persist with playing out from the back, we’ll get thumped.
Big picture this season - point per game will be comfortable, I don’t see the current bottom 3 getting more than 32 points.
I think after the highs of Villa in midweek, we are just so down after alongside the Southampton game, our worst performance of the season.
Respect all opinions on here, we all want us to succeed…MOT!
In each match we've played against Man U since being in the Prem, it's felt like we've been intimidated, starting slowly and only pulling it round when it's too late. Maybe I'm wrong but I do feel that if we start slowly and let them take charge, we're f@cked.
To beat ManU, teams have to attack them. Give them too much respect and they have the quality to hurt you.
Unfortunately when we attack we are vulnerable when we lose possession, something Rodrigo and Raph seem to do a lot recently. I can't see us getting anything from Sunday's game. I hope more than anything I'm wrong, but we're perfect opponents for a skilful, fast attacking team. It doesn't matter that they're iffy at the moment if we don't show some defensive intelligence.
I wonder if any of the bielsa out people remember the fifteen or so managers that couldn't get us back to the pl for twenty years. the only thing that bugs me a bit is our squad is too small to challenge for European places.
and i dont mean that thing spurs were in, even they didnt want to be in that.
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 18 hours, 21 minutes ago
To beat ManU, teams have to attack them. Give them too much respect and they have the quality to hurt you.
Unfortunately when we attack we are vulnerable when we lose possession, something Rodrigo and Raph seem to do a lot recently. I can't see us getting anything from Sunday's game. I hope more than anything I'm wrong, but we're perfect opponents for a skilful, fast attacking team. It doesn't matter that they're iffy at the moment if we don't show some defensive intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Man U facing a tough challenge in midweek against Brighton? I think we have a chance if we set up similar to how we played them at home last year, crowd the midfield and rely on Raph to provide some overdue magic.
Just watching Brighton v De Gea. Anyone think we can't get the points off this lot?
comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 3 hours, 24 minutes ago
Just watching Brighton v De Gea. Anyone think we can't get the points off this lot?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meslier chipping the ball out = possibly cricket score
Meslier banging it long, let them fight their way through the whole team = I think we could!
They like the high press, don’t play the game they want. Press them high, they don’t like it…Brighton should have been 1 or 2 up at HT tonight.
I think Bielsa will get a lot of comfort from that first half v Brighton. Potter will know that they should have scored, but you have to hand it to De Gea, that was world class from him.
However, Fernandez and Ronaldo can turn a game in a second. We may not have that kind of talent at our disposal, but we have enough in the team to test them out.
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posted on 14/2/22
One thing that your post does not take into account, Jonty, is that Bielsa coaching theory and practice is now operating in uncharted territory: he has never stayed long enough at any one club for his theory and practice to be evaluating over the long term.
This is Year 4. The small squad has been weakened - perhaps fatally - by injuries. Money has not been spent. We are still in "augmented Championship" mode, rather than "consolidated Premiership" mode, it seems. Agree some of the seniors now look very jaded - Dallas, Klich and Ayling have literally run themselves into the ground
Some of Bielsa's tactics at times suggest he is utterly clueless, no Plan B, obstinately supporting struggling seniors - Roberts and Rodrigo, for example - when hungry U23s are champing at the bit.
The thing is, the difference in form from last year is just so astounding. Only occasionally have we seen glimpses of the beautifully urgent and relentless football we know these players are capable of.
Recently, Bielsa publicly took responsibility for the poor start to the season. He wasn't under pressure to do so - he just did it, in his typically honest fashion. I thought that was odd, almost like he was admitting he has his own doubts about his theory and practice of football coaching.
I also read somewhere the club was pressuring him to agree to commit beyond the end of this season. I don't know whether he has or not but if he hasn't, and the 49ers are taking over during the summer, then he can't expect to retain his position, surely.
I love the man and his theory and practices as much as any other fan but there is a huge element of doubt now growing about whether or not they are effective over the long term, particularly in this, the most financially deterministic competition in the world.
It's not enough to say we'd already be relegated without him as our coach if we are about to be relegated with him.
posted on 14/2/22
Agree totally with all that all the bielsas ringing commented previously.Interesting to see are changes coming.
posted on 14/2/22
6pts off 17th, look in the other direction and we're 6pts off 11th!..
I wonder what people would be saying if we'd had no injuries, red cards, international breaks or whatever else takes your players away?..
Leeds is one off the few that wanted to play on with half its first team missing while others wanted a break, I wonder what some think about that?..
People should also not forget that Bielsa has said in his own words he doesn't want unless its an improvement,(which usually isn't cheap!)and Radz has said he wants the academy to be used!..
So, which is it to be, do it the correct way?..
Or bust the club again?..
Rebuilding the club back up to what it was before Ridsdale takes time and money, but it seems people around here don't have the time but have too much money, I wonder in the real world how many of those of you's with the money would listen to those screaming at you to do it their way!..
posted on 14/2/22
comment by Stoopo (U4707)
posted 15 hours, 9 minutes ago
Good thread Jonty. Nice to see some considered thoughts rather than knee jerk reactions.
ManU next. Be there or be square
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3pts and a relaxing Sunday evening please.
posted on 14/2/22
Jaz, have posted before about this being uncharted territory for him at club level, the other factor was lack of crowds, which had a significant factor in results last season.
Bielsa is getting on. Does he really want to have to start it all again somewhere, hope he gets integrity from owners etc etc?
I genuinely believe that his system can yield tangible results with better players and surely he'd like to prove that he can do it.
posted on 14/2/22
Changing manager would be suicidal.
I don’t think we have any money.
I’d cash in on our assets in the summer and rebuild.
More immediately - Man U will high press and if we persist with playing out from the back, we’ll get thumped.
Big picture this season - point per game will be comfortable, I don’t see the current bottom 3 getting more than 32 points.
I think after the highs of Villa in midweek, we are just so down after alongside the Southampton game, our worst performance of the season.
Respect all opinions on here, we all want us to succeed…MOT!
posted on 14/2/22
In each match we've played against Man U since being in the Prem, it's felt like we've been intimidated, starting slowly and only pulling it round when it's too late. Maybe I'm wrong but I do feel that if we start slowly and let them take charge, we're f@cked.
posted on 15/2/22
To beat ManU, teams have to attack them. Give them too much respect and they have the quality to hurt you.
Unfortunately when we attack we are vulnerable when we lose possession, something Rodrigo and Raph seem to do a lot recently. I can't see us getting anything from Sunday's game. I hope more than anything I'm wrong, but we're perfect opponents for a skilful, fast attacking team. It doesn't matter that they're iffy at the moment if we don't show some defensive intelligence.
posted on 15/2/22
I wonder if any of the bielsa out people remember the fifteen or so managers that couldn't get us back to the pl for twenty years. the only thing that bugs me a bit is our squad is too small to challenge for European places.
and i dont mean that thing spurs were in, even they didnt want to be in that.
posted on 15/2/22
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 18 hours, 21 minutes ago
To beat ManU, teams have to attack them. Give them too much respect and they have the quality to hurt you.
Unfortunately when we attack we are vulnerable when we lose possession, something Rodrigo and Raph seem to do a lot recently. I can't see us getting anything from Sunday's game. I hope more than anything I'm wrong, but we're perfect opponents for a skilful, fast attacking team. It doesn't matter that they're iffy at the moment if we don't show some defensive intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With Man U facing a tough challenge in midweek against Brighton? I think we have a chance if we set up similar to how we played them at home last year, crowd the midfield and rely on Raph to provide some overdue magic.
posted on 15/2/22
Just watching Brighton v De Gea. Anyone think we can't get the points off this lot?
posted on 16/2/22
comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 3 hours, 24 minutes ago
Just watching Brighton v De Gea. Anyone think we can't get the points off this lot?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meslier chipping the ball out = possibly cricket score
Meslier banging it long, let them fight their way through the whole team = I think we could!
They like the high press, don’t play the game they want. Press them high, they don’t like it…Brighton should have been 1 or 2 up at HT tonight.
posted on 16/2/22
I think Bielsa will get a lot of comfort from that first half v Brighton. Potter will know that they should have scored, but you have to hand it to De Gea, that was world class from him.
However, Fernandez and Ronaldo can turn a game in a second. We may not have that kind of talent at our disposal, but we have enough in the team to test them out.
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