We'll see. Just because we have a squad of players who are good enough to be at that stage doesn't mean it's likely to happen. For me next season is all about EtH getting in a few players he wants this summer, offloading a load and starting all over again with the squad. Getting the fitness levels up to an acceptable level will take time and during that time we will see some poor results while players adjust and the media will lap it up. On top of that the style of play thatt EtH will want is drastically different to what these players have expereinces at the club and hopefully we'll be able to see who is and who isn't willing to put in the effort to try and make it work.
For me next season is going to be brutal, we're gonna get a few pastings and many of these players will struggle. But hopefully over time (2-3 years) we will slowly see improvements and the squad starting to develop and play to the standard EtH will expect.
Thinking about having a shot at a trophy around Feb/March is just so naive and short term. What did our FA Cup, League Cup and EL wins achieve for us long term, absolutely nothing.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 29 minutes ago
It's highly unlikey and for fans to even think it could shows how unrealistic their thinking is.
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tbf i dont think it is unrealistic to think we can be challenging for trophies next year.
yes we are shiiiite at the minute but there is likely to be some big changes over the summer, both in players and hopefully style and attitude.
whilst noone should be expecting league challenges next season, challenging or being in the later stages of the cups isnt beyond the realms of impossibilities
Also, while we all want EtH to succeed and it's exciting that he's coming it does sound like most seem to think he will to some level. There is a very real chance that he will fail at this club like the 5 managers before him.
Thinking about having a shot at a trophy around Feb/March is just so naive and short term. What did our FA Cup, League Cup and EL wins achieve for us long term, absolutely nothing.
--------------------------------------
Well that's a different argument altogether and I don't really disagree. But you can guarantee that both the players and the manager won't be thinking like that. I would be quite concerned if they weren't.
I like how he is openly acknowledging that we are an absolute mess, gives me hope that he isn't just another yes man.
Other than DDG and Ronaldo, I genuinely wouldn't care less if any other player from our first team squad are sold. In fact, even DDG and Ronaldo are sellable given their age and salaries.
If this were Football Manager, I'd bring in 5/6 players and fill the other positions with youngsters to make a statement that if you don't take being at United for granted.
We could be in the conference league. Winning that wouldn’t be unrealistic.
bllodred
But that was what my original diagreement was all about, diagreeing with 'Still having. Shot at a trophy come Feb/Mar would be welcome.'
Of course we want/need players and manager who want to win and succeed but making the changes needed will IMO take time and until then we will see some bad results but we have to accept that if we want long term change.
Darren
F-ck, I forgot about that mess of a trophy, shame we can't miss European football all together next season. It's great EtH is gonna get a proper pre season with the squad this summer but a WC half way in the season isn't going to help, nor is Thursday European games.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 30 minutes ago
Example likes of maguire will be made to play an extremely high line even if they can’t and will be exposed. Commentators will be saying ten hag most Adjust to the players and be pragmatic but I see him following through with his ideas even if they don’t suit the players and are failing initially.
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Ten Hag’s Ajax don’t play with an extremely high line, so I’m not sure where you’ve got that from.
He prefers a quicker attacking transition, which unless his team is completely dominating possession, often means that Ajax’s three deepest outfielders infrequently/barely cross the halfway line.
Plus his system dictates that there’s always 4 players behind the ball *at any time* to cover in the case the ball is turned over. Even if one of the CBs steps up (which he uses to help Ajax control midfield battles), there are three players sat in.
As long as he has one pacey CB (preferably playing on the opposite side to where he wants to focus the overloads), he’s good.
I think we'll see a better Maguire next season. He's been poor since the Euro's but the mess the clubs been in hasn't helped nor the scrutiny he's been under with the media. I don't rate him much but he's obviously going to still be starting for us next season and hopfully a new manager can be the change he needs.
In the the Europa League Solskjaer got within a whisker of winning it one season and was a bit unlucky to fail to make the final the season before. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that ETH could match that. Of course the long-term job is to rebuild the club to an elite standard, and winning a minor trophy in the first season is neither a prerequisite, nor would it be a strong signal that he was on track.
With regard to the Klopp comparison, I think Liverpool were in less of a mess when he joined - their footballing principles were more proactive and suited to being built upon than United's are at this point, contrary to our hope that Rangnick would prepare the ground for a coach like Ten Hag. On the other hand, the chance of a full pre-season together and the probability of the biggest squad overhaul in years give ETH the chance to start the season with a more suitable bunch of players than we see at the moment.
Yeah I’ve said as such before that not playing in Europe could be useful to us. That said, it will allow ten Hag to test out different players and set ups in the Europa or the Conference League, and they are competitions we’d have a good chance of winning. I suspect winning a trophy will be high on the agenda for this team next season. We cannot fix all the issues in the team, and the coach and many of the players we have at the club will be desperate to win something.
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
But do you think Ole ever made the big changes that the club needed long term that were likely to hinder short term success?
For me the problem with Ole was that nothing ever seemed to really be about fixing deep rooted problems and more papering over the cracks and bringing a good atmosphere (which is very improtant too) which enabled us to do ok in second rate cup competitions.
I'm not saying long term planning can't also see some short term success but to hope we will get that short term success for me is just irrelvant.
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 7 minutes ago
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be happy to win it. Simply by being in it on a fairly regular basis, that shows that it's our level. Being in it and not winning it is more damning than winning it, for sure. I still have a nasty feeling we'll end up in the Conference though, which really doesn't have much of an up side imo
Depending on what everyone does in the transfer market, winning the Europa may be our best route back into the CL as well.
Finally got yourselves a serious manager with an attacking style. That's all you need tbh
Isn't it after next season when 5th will pretty much be guranteed a CL spot?
Making changes doesnt.mean you have to start at zero. Nor does it have to rake 2-3 years.
Better manager, better players = SHOULD equal better football.
It really doesnt have to be more complicated than that.
Ah ok. But the way English cups are doing it's pretty much certain the PL will get the extra spot right?
Hard to say right now. The two extra spots will be based on the country coefficient for the 23/24 season. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but this season England and the Netherlands are the top two leagues. The Conference League is the reason for that in the case of the Dutch. All it would take is one bad year and someone else would get that extra CL spot.
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 28 minutes ago
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s better:
- History showing that you were entered into a second rate competition, and that you failed to beat the second rate teams in it
- History showing that you were entered into a second rate competition, but that you won it.
Ah so the Conference League has some importance in getting that spot? So the Netherland have done well because they had 4 teams reach the Conference League knockout rounds but only had Ajax in the knockout rounds of either the CL or EL?
Barry logged into the wrong account.
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Erik speaks
Page 2 of 5
posted on 16/5/22
We'll see. Just because we have a squad of players who are good enough to be at that stage doesn't mean it's likely to happen. For me next season is all about EtH getting in a few players he wants this summer, offloading a load and starting all over again with the squad. Getting the fitness levels up to an acceptable level will take time and during that time we will see some poor results while players adjust and the media will lap it up. On top of that the style of play thatt EtH will want is drastically different to what these players have expereinces at the club and hopefully we'll be able to see who is and who isn't willing to put in the effort to try and make it work.
For me next season is going to be brutal, we're gonna get a few pastings and many of these players will struggle. But hopefully over time (2-3 years) we will slowly see improvements and the squad starting to develop and play to the standard EtH will expect.
Thinking about having a shot at a trophy around Feb/March is just so naive and short term. What did our FA Cup, League Cup and EL wins achieve for us long term, absolutely nothing.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 29 minutes ago
It's highly unlikey and for fans to even think it could shows how unrealistic their thinking is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbf i dont think it is unrealistic to think we can be challenging for trophies next year.
yes we are shiiiite at the minute but there is likely to be some big changes over the summer, both in players and hopefully style and attitude.
whilst noone should be expecting league challenges next season, challenging or being in the later stages of the cups isnt beyond the realms of impossibilities
posted on 16/5/22
Also, while we all want EtH to succeed and it's exciting that he's coming it does sound like most seem to think he will to some level. There is a very real chance that he will fail at this club like the 5 managers before him.
posted on 16/5/22
Thinking about having a shot at a trophy around Feb/March is just so naive and short term. What did our FA Cup, League Cup and EL wins achieve for us long term, absolutely nothing.
--------------------------------------
Well that's a different argument altogether and I don't really disagree. But you can guarantee that both the players and the manager won't be thinking like that. I would be quite concerned if they weren't.
posted on 16/5/22
I like how he is openly acknowledging that we are an absolute mess, gives me hope that he isn't just another yes man.
Other than DDG and Ronaldo, I genuinely wouldn't care less if any other player from our first team squad are sold. In fact, even DDG and Ronaldo are sellable given their age and salaries.
If this were Football Manager, I'd bring in 5/6 players and fill the other positions with youngsters to make a statement that if you don't take being at United for granted.
posted on 16/5/22
We could be in the conference league. Winning that wouldn’t be unrealistic.
posted on 16/5/22
bllodred
But that was what my original diagreement was all about, diagreeing with 'Still having. Shot at a trophy come Feb/Mar would be welcome.'
Of course we want/need players and manager who want to win and succeed but making the changes needed will IMO take time and until then we will see some bad results but we have to accept that if we want long term change.
posted on 16/5/22
Darren
F-ck, I forgot about that mess of a trophy, shame we can't miss European football all together next season. It's great EtH is gonna get a proper pre season with the squad this summer but a WC half way in the season isn't going to help, nor is Thursday European games.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 30 minutes ago
Example likes of maguire will be made to play an extremely high line even if they can’t and will be exposed. Commentators will be saying ten hag most Adjust to the players and be pragmatic but I see him following through with his ideas even if they don’t suit the players and are failing initially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten Hag’s Ajax don’t play with an extremely high line, so I’m not sure where you’ve got that from.
He prefers a quicker attacking transition, which unless his team is completely dominating possession, often means that Ajax’s three deepest outfielders infrequently/barely cross the halfway line.
Plus his system dictates that there’s always 4 players behind the ball *at any time* to cover in the case the ball is turned over. Even if one of the CBs steps up (which he uses to help Ajax control midfield battles), there are three players sat in.
As long as he has one pacey CB (preferably playing on the opposite side to where he wants to focus the overloads), he’s good.
posted on 16/5/22
I think we'll see a better Maguire next season. He's been poor since the Euro's but the mess the clubs been in hasn't helped nor the scrutiny he's been under with the media. I don't rate him much but he's obviously going to still be starting for us next season and hopfully a new manager can be the change he needs.
posted on 16/5/22
In the the Europa League Solskjaer got within a whisker of winning it one season and was a bit unlucky to fail to make the final the season before. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that ETH could match that. Of course the long-term job is to rebuild the club to an elite standard, and winning a minor trophy in the first season is neither a prerequisite, nor would it be a strong signal that he was on track.
With regard to the Klopp comparison, I think Liverpool were in less of a mess when he joined - their footballing principles were more proactive and suited to being built upon than United's are at this point, contrary to our hope that Rangnick would prepare the ground for a coach like Ten Hag. On the other hand, the chance of a full pre-season together and the probability of the biggest squad overhaul in years give ETH the chance to start the season with a more suitable bunch of players than we see at the moment.
posted on 16/5/22
Yeah I’ve said as such before that not playing in Europe could be useful to us. That said, it will allow ten Hag to test out different players and set ups in the Europa or the Conference League, and they are competitions we’d have a good chance of winning. I suspect winning a trophy will be high on the agenda for this team next season. We cannot fix all the issues in the team, and the coach and many of the players we have at the club will be desperate to win something.
posted on 16/5/22
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
posted on 16/5/22
But do you think Ole ever made the big changes that the club needed long term that were likely to hinder short term success?
For me the problem with Ole was that nothing ever seemed to really be about fixing deep rooted problems and more papering over the cracks and bringing a good atmosphere (which is very improtant too) which enabled us to do ok in second rate cup competitions.
I'm not saying long term planning can't also see some short term success but to hope we will get that short term success for me is just irrelvant.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 7 minutes ago
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be happy to win it. Simply by being in it on a fairly regular basis, that shows that it's our level. Being in it and not winning it is more damning than winning it, for sure. I still have a nasty feeling we'll end up in the Conference though, which really doesn't have much of an up side imo
posted on 16/5/22
Depending on what everyone does in the transfer market, winning the Europa may be our best route back into the CL as well.
posted on 16/5/22
Finally got yourselves a serious manager with an attacking style. That's all you need tbh
posted on 16/5/22
Isn't it after next season when 5th will pretty much be guranteed a CL spot?
posted on 16/5/22
Making changes doesnt.mean you have to start at zero. Nor does it have to rake 2-3 years.
Better manager, better players = SHOULD equal better football.
It really doesnt have to be more complicated than that.
posted on 16/5/22
Nope, season after.
posted on 16/5/22
Ah ok. But the way English cups are doing it's pretty much certain the PL will get the extra spot right?
posted on 16/5/22
Hard to say right now. The two extra spots will be based on the country coefficient for the 23/24 season. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but this season England and the Netherlands are the top two leagues. The Conference League is the reason for that in the case of the Dutch. All it would take is one bad year and someone else would get that extra CL spot.
posted on 16/5/22
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 28 minutes ago
Am I the only one that prefers not win the Europa League? Why would a club of our size want to add a cup that is essentially for 2nd tier teams? It's like consolidating into our history that we are the best of the losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s better:
- History showing that you were entered into a second rate competition, and that you failed to beat the second rate teams in it
- History showing that you were entered into a second rate competition, but that you won it.
posted on 16/5/22
Ah so the Conference League has some importance in getting that spot? So the Netherland have done well because they had 4 teams reach the Conference League knockout rounds but only had Ajax in the knockout rounds of either the CL or EL?
posted on 16/5/22
Barry logged into the wrong account.
Page 2 of 5