Wasn't really a fan of the inside wingers Marsch prefers. If we do go down that route (which we probably will) I think we need to upgrade on both full backs as it leaves them so exposed and I don't think either have the quality to work well in that system.
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 32 seconds ago
Wasn't really a fan of the inside wingers Marsch prefers. If we do go down that route (which we probably will) I think we need to upgrade on both full backs as it leaves them so exposed and I don't think either have the quality to work well in that system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I am aware the fullbacks are more like wide centre backs in Marsch's system and not expected to be very attacking. Hence hwy Koch worked well there at the end of the season.
Like you say, how does that work with Firpo who was clearly signed for Bielsa where full backs are closer to wingers with Phillips' role beiing the 'third' centre back.
Another reason why I don't understand the appointment of Marsch who was sold as a smooth transition, which he clearly isn't.
I can't see him staying. But can see it getting ugly.
Man U (thanks to Fernandes' friendship with Raph)
now seem to be a real option. They do have money.
And that should jolt Barca to stop f_nnying around.
I'd be happy for cash + Sergino Dest from Barca.
Honestly nothing worse than one of these champ manager style deals to Barca.
Apparently skint (yeah right) well will end up with 20m and 2 or 3 cast offs
Would rather see him go to skum for 45m.
He's done his job for us and kept us up. Put the effort in and carried us at times . He is too good for where we are right now. But if he sulks and demands let him wallow in the reserves. Otherwise, we play the cards and he can wait till someone offers what he is worth
Yorkie, I'd be happy if he went to Man U for 75 mill.
That's the 60 mill for Raph + the 15 mill they robbed
us of in the Dan James 25 mill transfer.
Hes not been linked to Man Utd so not sure where you get that from. Hes only really seriously been linked to Barca so far and all the rest is just paper talk. If you believe some of the garbage online youd think we were signing every player whos ever played for Marsch...
comment by Yorkie_116 (U2965)
posted 1 minute ago
Honestly nothing worse than one of these champ manager style deals to Barca.
Apparently skint (yeah right) well will end up with 20m and 2 or 3 cast offs
Would rather see him go to skum for 45m.
He's done his job for us and kept us up. Put the effort in and carried us at times . He is too good for where we are right now. But if he sulks and demands let him wallow in the reserves. Otherwise, we play the cards and he can wait till someone offers what he is worth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't see him kicking up a fuss. If he doesn't get the move he will sign a new contract to guarantee more money while he is here, but with the get out of a release clause at circa £60m. Gives Deco a year to find a buyer knowing all the figures.
Not mad keen on us getting Dest as part of the deal. Has struggled at Barca, and not really lived up to his potential from early on.
What does Marsch do if Raphinha stays? He celebrates wildly!
On his day, Raphinha is a match winner - just a little natural individual brilliance and he's scored or created an opportunity.
I'd be surprised if we manage to hold onto him, but if we do have to sell, it CANNOT be to Man Utd - that would be a Cantona-scale mistake!
If we can keep him, I'd hope Marsch doesn't try to square peg him but allows him to do his thing where he does it best, and give him a top quality striker to play with/off. He had something bubbling with Bamford last season.
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
What does Marsch do if Raphinha stays? He celebrates wildly!
On his day, Raphinha is a match winner - just a little natural individual brilliance and he's scored or created an opportunity.
I'd be surprised if we manage to hold onto him, but if we do have to sell, it CANNOT be to Man Utd - that would be a Cantona-scale mistake!
If we can keep him, I'd hope Marsch doesn't try to square peg him but allows him to do his thing where he does it best, and give him a top quality striker to play with/off. He had something bubbling with Bamford last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think he does.
I think his job is easier if Raphinha goes. If Raphinha stays then Marsch might have to go, unless he changes his philosophy. Which will be very difficult.
Raph is our best player, I think we are agreed on that. We know he wants to go, but he is still under contract with us. Unless there is a specific release clause, we should do what Spurs have done with Kane.
Playing for us at 75% is still better than anybody else we have in that position, and 100% better than himplaying for sc um.
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah - sorry I didn't address your very valid point about Marsch - I don't feel qualified to say if he could use Raph or not as I've no real feel for the style of football Marsch wants to play.
It seldom works out changing the style of play to suit one player, so I'd hope that Marsch can fit him into a role that benefits the team and doesn't frustrate Raph when he plays.
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah - sorry I didn't address your very valid point about Marsch - I don't feel qualified to say if he could use Raph or not as I've no real feel for the style of football Marsch wants to play.
It seldom works out changing the style of play to suit one player, so I'd hope that Marsch can fit him into a role that benefits the team and doesn't frustrate Raph when he plays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, agreed. There’s Also a lot of evidence to show that having a world class player does bring definitive guarantees.
However, it did bring valuable points, including to Jesse Marsch.
Maybe he even saw enough to consider, unlike Bielsa, that setting up differently to his preferred formation can bear fruit if a tactical change is necessary.
So food for thought for him over the Summer.
Giving our rapid spending, it does feel like this is already a ‘buy, buy, buy…..and then sell Raphinha’ type of Summer.
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did specify the last two games for a reason, Faith, because that was when Marsch realised he would get better results from Raph by playing him out wide. That suggests flexibility to me, how about you?
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did specify the last two games for a reason, Faith, because that was when Marsch realised he would get better results from Raph by playing him out wide. That suggests flexibility to me, how about you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It suggests it was a last resort in desperate circumstances.
And with Raphinha expected to leave and signing Aaronson, and looking at Gibbs-White it is clear the plan is to move away from wide attacking threat to more central players.
A role that Harrison has excelled in too.
So I don’t see Marsch spending the summer rethinking his beliefs and structure to utilise wingers.
Which is where the problem lies for Marsch if the sale of Raphinha doesn’t happen which will also restrict the finances to bring in the likes off Gibbs-White and leave Marsch with a squad out of balance for his requirements.
I have a feeling that Barca will up their offer to 40 mill
cash + a player in their squad that they rate in the 15-20
mill range. And eventually, Orta will bite. And Raph goes.
I can't see us being keen on any Barcelona player. Braithwaite is the obvious one but he's not got a great scoring record. Can't think of anyone else.
Me either Outwood. I personally rate Dest (US player).
But, why make another Firpo fck up? And Braithewaite's agent has said that he has no desire to leave Barca.
Said that he likes the club and the life around it. Seems
like he's happy to take a massive pay check and do
a Bale. No thanks on him.
An article on Leeds Live talking about the narrowness and likelihood that his how we will set up next season.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489
Of course Braithwaite has no desire to leave. He's a championship player at best.
Think Marsch experimented with players he picked in the positions he picked them in, to get a better idea of the adaptability of his squad. Also, difficult to nail down his personal philosophy, as the way he tends to play has been so informed by the tactics Red Bull like to have across their teams. I don't see him dropping them, though.
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What does Marsch do if Raphinha stays?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 31/5/22
Wasn't really a fan of the inside wingers Marsch prefers. If we do go down that route (which we probably will) I think we need to upgrade on both full backs as it leaves them so exposed and I don't think either have the quality to work well in that system.
posted on 31/5/22
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 32 seconds ago
Wasn't really a fan of the inside wingers Marsch prefers. If we do go down that route (which we probably will) I think we need to upgrade on both full backs as it leaves them so exposed and I don't think either have the quality to work well in that system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I am aware the fullbacks are more like wide centre backs in Marsch's system and not expected to be very attacking. Hence hwy Koch worked well there at the end of the season.
Like you say, how does that work with Firpo who was clearly signed for Bielsa where full backs are closer to wingers with Phillips' role beiing the 'third' centre back.
Another reason why I don't understand the appointment of Marsch who was sold as a smooth transition, which he clearly isn't.
posted on 31/5/22
I can't see him staying. But can see it getting ugly.
Man U (thanks to Fernandes' friendship with Raph)
now seem to be a real option. They do have money.
And that should jolt Barca to stop f_nnying around.
I'd be happy for cash + Sergino Dest from Barca.
posted on 31/5/22
Honestly nothing worse than one of these champ manager style deals to Barca.
Apparently skint (yeah right) well will end up with 20m and 2 or 3 cast offs
Would rather see him go to skum for 45m.
He's done his job for us and kept us up. Put the effort in and carried us at times . He is too good for where we are right now. But if he sulks and demands let him wallow in the reserves. Otherwise, we play the cards and he can wait till someone offers what he is worth
posted on 31/5/22
Yorkie, I'd be happy if he went to Man U for 75 mill.
That's the 60 mill for Raph + the 15 mill they robbed
us of in the Dan James 25 mill transfer.
posted on 31/5/22
Hes not been linked to Man Utd so not sure where you get that from. Hes only really seriously been linked to Barca so far and all the rest is just paper talk. If you believe some of the garbage online youd think we were signing every player whos ever played for Marsch...
posted on 31/5/22
comment by Yorkie_116 (U2965)
posted 1 minute ago
Honestly nothing worse than one of these champ manager style deals to Barca.
Apparently skint (yeah right) well will end up with 20m and 2 or 3 cast offs
Would rather see him go to skum for 45m.
He's done his job for us and kept us up. Put the effort in and carried us at times . He is too good for where we are right now. But if he sulks and demands let him wallow in the reserves. Otherwise, we play the cards and he can wait till someone offers what he is worth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't see him kicking up a fuss. If he doesn't get the move he will sign a new contract to guarantee more money while he is here, but with the get out of a release clause at circa £60m. Gives Deco a year to find a buyer knowing all the figures.
posted on 31/5/22
Not mad keen on us getting Dest as part of the deal. Has struggled at Barca, and not really lived up to his potential from early on.
posted on 31/5/22
What does Marsch do if Raphinha stays? He celebrates wildly!
On his day, Raphinha is a match winner - just a little natural individual brilliance and he's scored or created an opportunity.
I'd be surprised if we manage to hold onto him, but if we do have to sell, it CANNOT be to Man Utd - that would be a Cantona-scale mistake!
If we can keep him, I'd hope Marsch doesn't try to square peg him but allows him to do his thing where he does it best, and give him a top quality striker to play with/off. He had something bubbling with Bamford last season.
posted on 31/5/22
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
What does Marsch do if Raphinha stays? He celebrates wildly!
On his day, Raphinha is a match winner - just a little natural individual brilliance and he's scored or created an opportunity.
I'd be surprised if we manage to hold onto him, but if we do have to sell, it CANNOT be to Man Utd - that would be a Cantona-scale mistake!
If we can keep him, I'd hope Marsch doesn't try to square peg him but allows him to do his thing where he does it best, and give him a top quality striker to play with/off. He had something bubbling with Bamford last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think he does.
I think his job is easier if Raphinha goes. If Raphinha stays then Marsch might have to go, unless he changes his philosophy. Which will be very difficult.
posted on 1/6/22
Raph is our best player, I think we are agreed on that. We know he wants to go, but he is still under contract with us. Unless there is a specific release clause, we should do what Spurs have done with Kane.
Playing for us at 75% is still better than anybody else we have in that position, and 100% better than himplaying for sc um.
posted on 1/6/22
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
posted on 1/6/22
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
posted on 1/6/22
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah - sorry I didn't address your very valid point about Marsch - I don't feel qualified to say if he could use Raph or not as I've no real feel for the style of football Marsch wants to play.
It seldom works out changing the style of play to suit one player, so I'd hope that Marsch can fit him into a role that benefits the team and doesn't frustrate Raph when he plays.
posted on 2/6/22
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor47Years (U6871)
posted 48 minutes ago
We would have gone down if it wasn't for Raph this last season, so I can only see him staying as a positive should it happen.
If he does stay, it will be because Barca don't do the deal and he doesn't like the other options on the table for other clubs.
Going into a stronger club often means warming their bench for a spell, so that will be a factor. Raph is good, but could he dislodge the likes of Salah, Sancho, Saka, Mahrez etc. at the larger spending clubs?
I think (hope) that it's Barca or nothing for Raph. Staying, he signs a new 3 year deal with a chunky sell-on clause and a wage fitting his status and fires us a few places up the league table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raphinha staying can only be good for the club. He's our best player. I hope he stays and agree that the chance we have is that he wants to go to Barcelona, who can't finance a deal and we double his money and insert a release clause that Barcelona will be prepared to pay next summer. A deal can almost be done in principal between all 3 parties that way.
Then it gives us 12 months to persuade the player that he can achieve what he wants with us (unlikely)
The problem isn't for the club. The problem is for Mrasch who doesn't need/want a player of Raphinha's strengths in his squad. And will have to find a way of using because he's our best player. If he doesn't get it right then it could cost him his job.
Whereas if Raphinha goes he has the excuse of losing his best player and having to find new match winners etc. It will buy him more time. Doing this is easier than ripping up your entire philosophy to suit one player.
Maybe he could use Raphinha as a second striker and give him a freer role?
i don't know enough about Marsch's football to say whether this would work, hence me asking the question posed in the article.
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Yeah - sorry I didn't address your very valid point about Marsch - I don't feel qualified to say if he could use Raph or not as I've no real feel for the style of football Marsch wants to play.
It seldom works out changing the style of play to suit one player, so I'd hope that Marsch can fit him into a role that benefits the team and doesn't frustrate Raph when he plays.
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Yes, agreed. There’s Also a lot of evidence to show that having a world class player does bring definitive guarantees.
However, it did bring valuable points, including to Jesse Marsch.
Maybe he even saw enough to consider, unlike Bielsa, that setting up differently to his preferred formation can bear fruit if a tactical change is necessary.
So food for thought for him over the Summer.
Giving our rapid spending, it does feel like this is already a ‘buy, buy, buy…..and then sell Raphinha’ type of Summer.
posted on 2/6/22
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
posted on 3/6/22
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
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He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
posted on 3/6/22
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
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He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
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I did specify the last two games for a reason, Faith, because that was when Marsch realised he would get better results from Raph by playing him out wide. That suggests flexibility to me, how about you?
posted on 3/6/22
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by My favorite Marschian (U19827)
posted 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
Marsch showed he can not only accommodate Raph, but get a decent game out of him, in our last two games. We are so used to the inflexibility of Bielsa's system that we forget other coaches can make the holes rounder to fit the round pegs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He played James up front. Harrison and Raphinha narrow. Raphinha at RB. Greenwood as a 6. Koch at RB. Koch in midfield. Struijk at LB.
Seen no evidence at all that Marsch has a policy of round pegs for round holes.
The fact that he played Raphinha at RB before playing him as a winger is evidence of the problem Marsch will have.
His philosophy is to keep the players as narrow and tight as policy in and out of possession. That’s the last thing you want to do with Raphinha. It’s not a case of using a different formation. It’s a complete rethink of how Marsch thinks it’s best to play football.
If we go down the rethink route to get the best out of Raphinha what’s the point in doing it with Marsch and not a manager experienced and better suited to the football we would be playing?
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I did specify the last two games for a reason, Faith, because that was when Marsch realised he would get better results from Raph by playing him out wide. That suggests flexibility to me, how about you?
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It suggests it was a last resort in desperate circumstances.
And with Raphinha expected to leave and signing Aaronson, and looking at Gibbs-White it is clear the plan is to move away from wide attacking threat to more central players.
A role that Harrison has excelled in too.
So I don’t see Marsch spending the summer rethinking his beliefs and structure to utilise wingers.
Which is where the problem lies for Marsch if the sale of Raphinha doesn’t happen which will also restrict the finances to bring in the likes off Gibbs-White and leave Marsch with a squad out of balance for his requirements.
posted on 3/6/22
That too
posted on 3/6/22
I have a feeling that Barca will up their offer to 40 mill
cash + a player in their squad that they rate in the 15-20
mill range. And eventually, Orta will bite. And Raph goes.
posted on 3/6/22
I can't see us being keen on any Barcelona player. Braithwaite is the obvious one but he's not got a great scoring record. Can't think of anyone else.
posted on 3/6/22
Me either Outwood. I personally rate Dest (US player).
But, why make another Firpo fck up? And Braithewaite's agent has said that he has no desire to leave Barca.
Said that he likes the club and the life around it. Seems
like he's happy to take a massive pay check and do
a Bale. No thanks on him.
posted on 4/6/22
An article on Leeds Live talking about the narrowness and likelihood that his how we will set up next season.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/jesse-marschs-favoured-formation-likely-24123489
posted on 4/6/22
Of course Braithwaite has no desire to leave. He's a championship player at best.
Think Marsch experimented with players he picked in the positions he picked them in, to get a better idea of the adaptability of his squad. Also, difficult to nail down his personal philosophy, as the way he tends to play has been so informed by the tactics Red Bull like to have across their teams. I don't see him dropping them, though.
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