comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 8 hours, 58 minutes ago
Anyone think he is carrying more weight?
One of the huge differences Bielsa made to a lot of players was bringing their weight down. Phillips/ Dallas much more mobile.
Maybe Bielsa's training wasnt so bad afterall?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s very likely most players at Leeds will carry a little more weight under jm but he is known a fitness taskmaster too. Most modern day coaches are. Bielsa had a particular obsession for body fat %.
It’s documented by rob price that bielsa chose an extremely intense fitness and nutrition regime to squeeze every last drop from players and accepted that the quid pro quo was a potential impact on injuries. They figured one out weighed the other, if you pardon the pun.
Results suggest they were right from the clubs perspective … for 3 years out of 4 at least. What that says about player welfare is open to debate.
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 42 minutes ago
Phillips was only 22 when bielsa came and had had an ok if inconsistent season the year before. Bielsa transformed him by changing his position and giving him a system he could thrive in and suited his attributes. Obviously he got him fitter too.
There’s no doubt in my mind that bielsa made the whole greater than the sum of the parts and that if you took the players out of his Leeds side they won’t necessarily look as good elsewhere, but that’s true of all good managers.
But the idea that now bielsa has gone kp just reverts to what he was before? Porks out, forgets what he’s learnt? Really?
The idea that Man City and pretty much every other suitor in the premier league don’t know what they’re looking at when they’re scouting? That they Don’t measure the output metrics before spunking north of £50m?
KP wasn’t at his best when he returned from injury, playing in a new system, he had a bad game in a terrible team performance yesterday for England. Nothing more nothing less.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly.
He hasn't fully recovered from a long injury and doesn't deserve to be written off in some quarters.
Replacing him will be very very difficult and won't come cheap
Not fully fit, not had a good season either. It's no wonder he's off form. Needs a full season getting back into tip top condition and then start again.
How did England manage to lose 4-0 to Hungary. Shocking
Southgate's tactics a horrible. We got fairly lucky to get to the Euro final didn't we, easy run of games and then blew it.
comment by Earl * * Not available in N.I. (U9333)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 42 minutes ago
Phillips was only 22 when bielsa came and had had an ok if inconsistent season the year before. Bielsa transformed him by changing his position and giving him a system he could thrive in and suited his attributes. Obviously he got him fitter too.
There’s no doubt in my mind that bielsa made the whole greater than the sum of the parts and that if you took the players out of his Leeds side they won’t necessarily look as good elsewhere, but that’s true of all good managers.
But the idea that now bielsa has gone kp just reverts to what he was before? Porks out, forgets what he’s learnt? Really?
The idea that Man City and pretty much every other suitor in the premier league don’t know what they’re looking at when they’re scouting? That they Don’t measure the output metrics before spunking north of £50m?
KP wasn’t at his best when he returned from injury, playing in a new system, he had a bad game in a terrible team performance yesterday for England. Nothing more nothing less.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly.
He hasn't fully recovered from a long injury and doesn't deserve to be written off in some quarters.
Replacing him will be very very difficult and won't come cheap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's being dismissed now as others never rated him from the outset, didn't believe he'd be anywhere near a promotion level team, let alone international.
He wasn't the same player returning from injury - does anyone truly know to what level he'd recovered, and whether the end of the season just became get bodies on the pitch.
Let's see in the coming days how the suitors react, if bids/price reduce, then maybe others have a point.
Is it the right time to sell him - i'd like to see us build a squad, enhance what we had. I think Raph is gone - and that hopefully generates good funds - but beyond that, I'd rather we built than start dismantling the best parts of the squad and hoping to replace with better (which surely we must if we want to improve as a club).
.....anyone who thinks pep will not get the best out of kalvin don't understand football
Phillips is a good player, when surrounded by other good players who know the system and know their role.
Under Bielsa, he was a great player.
Except when he was surrounded by others who could not do their jobs as required - the cup games are an example, as was last season
In City, he would be a great player again.
Under Marsch, and if we continue improving our squad and understand the new system, he would be a great player for us.
But don’t expect him not to make mistakes. He is only human after all.
Sadly, I honestly feel that KP needs to move on for his own sake. I can't see him recovering the form he had with Bielsa unless he goes to City.
It's likely last season - injuries, not playing, change in training regime - that has produced this dip in form. I just don't think Marsch is the one to bring out the best in him.
He obviously struggles with his weight and Marcelo kept a check on it and didnt pick him if he went above his target weight (remember Man U away), looks big since he came back and sluggish and not sure he will regain the form he showed under MB, though when returning from injury going on holiday to Portugal then a stag do to Vegas was a good idea, for me at the moment if we get £30m plus its good business,
In other news looks like Shack and Charlie will be going out on loan.
Kalvin owes us nothing and I certainly won't begrudge a move but it's getting the right money for him.
People will make the comparison between him and Rice and that West Ham wanted 120m for Rice, but if we got 50m for Phillips it would be great business, considering where he was 3-4 years ago and what he's been like since Bielsa left
If he does go we need another DM to replace him
Who Do we go for?
I think we're seriously looking at Tyler Adams, DM with RB Leipzig. Marsch gave him his debut in MLS. Another who fits in Marsch's style. Roca + Adams with Forshaw as cover? Just can't see Kalvin staying.
In other news looks like Shack and Charlie will be going out on loan.
^^^^^
Good for both of them. Especially Charlie. Hopefully they both land with Championship sides with big aspirations.
Id prefer someone with PL experience to replace KP. Making all of our signings players without any PL experience is a concern.
Plenty of prem experience in the squad - assuming we keep many of them - so new additions from around the globe i'm less concerned about. I just hope, like everyone, that they prove to be improvements - probably some won't prove to be.
Surely if we look to replace KP with someone from within the prem, then KP suitors would go for them too? Or would we accept a potential downgrade? (depends on views of KP of course).
comment by Batty πΊπ¦ (U4664)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I think we're seriously looking at Tyler Adams, DM with RB Leipzig. Marsch gave him his debut in MLS. Another who fits in Marsch's style. Roca + Adams with Forshaw as cover? Just can't see Kalvin staying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those rumours aren’t going to go away anytime soon are they:
American, played for marsch in kp’s position and out of favour at his club.
Doesn’t mean it will happen obviously.
I hate saying this but KP needs to move on for his own good. He's 26 and won't be winning anything with Leeds anytime soon. At City,for example, he will win trophies and be surrounded by world class players. He will develop into an even better player. If he goes he does so with my blessing and best wishes.
Cant see Shackleton having a long term future at the club. Hope that Charlie and Drameh have a good season in the championship and then push for a first team place the following season. Makes sense.
City will be a good move for him, he’ll be rotated in and out…30 games a season will probably suit a player that carries massive responsibility at Leeds. He’s definitely capable of stepping up.
My view on Kalvin is that he came back into a relegation dogfight, and simply that was not the way to come back after a long injury:
I want to see us keep both him and Raphinha until after the World Cup and hopefully both will see their value increase with top draw performances. In Raphinha’s case, I think that if he has a stormer, 18 months on his contract will be long enough to persuade a team to part with the same amount of cash as now, and hopefully we will have benefited for those few extra months also.
Just another perspective.
I can't see how we can hold onto either Raphinha or Phillips, both of whom have sufficient potential to improve enormously if playing alongside better quality players and coached by better quality coaches. Both have reached critical stage of development in their careers, having broken into their respective national sides.
We will miss them but from the club's pov, yes it's time to cash in on these two players. I'd be surprised if we sign another winger this summer (unless Harrison goes too) but we must sign a DM to replace Phillips if he does go.
One thing that worries me is that it's Orta who's doing this work. Another is that we won't buy an established top quality DM but rather take a risk on a younger, cheaper player who can be developed in this role.
We must trust in Jesse Marsch to make sure Orta gets this right - we can't afford to ship goals like last season.
I think Kalvin will go because not only will the club accept an offer for him but he knows it’s time to move on and win things. At 26 he’s reaching his best years and a move to City will do him the world of good.
Hope I’m wrong as I’d love another season out of him and Raphinha, but we have to be realistic.
Am I the only one who thinks Adama would be a decent acquisition? Most on Twitter seem to think he’s just a beefed up James. I think he’s a far better player. Strong, direct and has ability. I wanted him last season.
Good luck to both Raphinha and Phillips. They have earned their respective moves.
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posted on 15/6/22
comment by Kebablegs (U17699)
posted 8 hours, 58 minutes ago
Anyone think he is carrying more weight?
One of the huge differences Bielsa made to a lot of players was bringing their weight down. Phillips/ Dallas much more mobile.
Maybe Bielsa's training wasnt so bad afterall?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s very likely most players at Leeds will carry a little more weight under jm but he is known a fitness taskmaster too. Most modern day coaches are. Bielsa had a particular obsession for body fat %.
It’s documented by rob price that bielsa chose an extremely intense fitness and nutrition regime to squeeze every last drop from players and accepted that the quid pro quo was a potential impact on injuries. They figured one out weighed the other, if you pardon the pun.
Results suggest they were right from the clubs perspective … for 3 years out of 4 at least. What that says about player welfare is open to debate.
posted on 15/6/22
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 42 minutes ago
Phillips was only 22 when bielsa came and had had an ok if inconsistent season the year before. Bielsa transformed him by changing his position and giving him a system he could thrive in and suited his attributes. Obviously he got him fitter too.
There’s no doubt in my mind that bielsa made the whole greater than the sum of the parts and that if you took the players out of his Leeds side they won’t necessarily look as good elsewhere, but that’s true of all good managers.
But the idea that now bielsa has gone kp just reverts to what he was before? Porks out, forgets what he’s learnt? Really?
The idea that Man City and pretty much every other suitor in the premier league don’t know what they’re looking at when they’re scouting? That they Don’t measure the output metrics before spunking north of £50m?
KP wasn’t at his best when he returned from injury, playing in a new system, he had a bad game in a terrible team performance yesterday for England. Nothing more nothing less.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly.
He hasn't fully recovered from a long injury and doesn't deserve to be written off in some quarters.
Replacing him will be very very difficult and won't come cheap
posted on 15/6/22
Not fully fit, not had a good season either. It's no wonder he's off form. Needs a full season getting back into tip top condition and then start again.
How did England manage to lose 4-0 to Hungary. Shocking
Southgate's tactics a horrible. We got fairly lucky to get to the Euro final didn't we, easy run of games and then blew it.
posted on 15/6/22
comment by Earl * * Not available in N.I. (U9333)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 42 minutes ago
Phillips was only 22 when bielsa came and had had an ok if inconsistent season the year before. Bielsa transformed him by changing his position and giving him a system he could thrive in and suited his attributes. Obviously he got him fitter too.
There’s no doubt in my mind that bielsa made the whole greater than the sum of the parts and that if you took the players out of his Leeds side they won’t necessarily look as good elsewhere, but that’s true of all good managers.
But the idea that now bielsa has gone kp just reverts to what he was before? Porks out, forgets what he’s learnt? Really?
The idea that Man City and pretty much every other suitor in the premier league don’t know what they’re looking at when they’re scouting? That they Don’t measure the output metrics before spunking north of £50m?
KP wasn’t at his best when he returned from injury, playing in a new system, he had a bad game in a terrible team performance yesterday for England. Nothing more nothing less.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly.
He hasn't fully recovered from a long injury and doesn't deserve to be written off in some quarters.
Replacing him will be very very difficult and won't come cheap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's being dismissed now as others never rated him from the outset, didn't believe he'd be anywhere near a promotion level team, let alone international.
He wasn't the same player returning from injury - does anyone truly know to what level he'd recovered, and whether the end of the season just became get bodies on the pitch.
Let's see in the coming days how the suitors react, if bids/price reduce, then maybe others have a point.
Is it the right time to sell him - i'd like to see us build a squad, enhance what we had. I think Raph is gone - and that hopefully generates good funds - but beyond that, I'd rather we built than start dismantling the best parts of the squad and hoping to replace with better (which surely we must if we want to improve as a club).
posted on 15/6/22
.....anyone who thinks pep will not get the best out of kalvin don't understand football
posted on 15/6/22
Phillips is a good player, when surrounded by other good players who know the system and know their role.
Under Bielsa, he was a great player.
Except when he was surrounded by others who could not do their jobs as required - the cup games are an example, as was last season
In City, he would be a great player again.
Under Marsch, and if we continue improving our squad and understand the new system, he would be a great player for us.
But don’t expect him not to make mistakes. He is only human after all.
posted on 15/6/22
Sadly, I honestly feel that KP needs to move on for his own sake. I can't see him recovering the form he had with Bielsa unless he goes to City.
It's likely last season - injuries, not playing, change in training regime - that has produced this dip in form. I just don't think Marsch is the one to bring out the best in him.
posted on 15/6/22
He obviously struggles with his weight and Marcelo kept a check on it and didnt pick him if he went above his target weight (remember Man U away), looks big since he came back and sluggish and not sure he will regain the form he showed under MB, though when returning from injury going on holiday to Portugal then a stag do to Vegas was a good idea, for me at the moment if we get £30m plus its good business,
In other news looks like Shack and Charlie will be going out on loan.
posted on 15/6/22
Kalvin owes us nothing and I certainly won't begrudge a move but it's getting the right money for him.
People will make the comparison between him and Rice and that West Ham wanted 120m for Rice, but if we got 50m for Phillips it would be great business, considering where he was 3-4 years ago and what he's been like since Bielsa left
posted on 15/6/22
If he does go we need another DM to replace him
Who Do we go for?
posted on 15/6/22
I think we're seriously looking at Tyler Adams, DM with RB Leipzig. Marsch gave him his debut in MLS. Another who fits in Marsch's style. Roca + Adams with Forshaw as cover? Just can't see Kalvin staying.
posted on 15/6/22
In other news looks like Shack and Charlie will be going out on loan.
^^^^^
Good for both of them. Especially Charlie. Hopefully they both land with Championship sides with big aspirations.
posted on 15/6/22
Id prefer someone with PL experience to replace KP. Making all of our signings players without any PL experience is a concern.
posted on 15/6/22
Plenty of prem experience in the squad - assuming we keep many of them - so new additions from around the globe i'm less concerned about. I just hope, like everyone, that they prove to be improvements - probably some won't prove to be.
Surely if we look to replace KP with someone from within the prem, then KP suitors would go for them too? Or would we accept a potential downgrade? (depends on views of KP of course).
posted on 15/6/22
comment by Batty πΊπ¦ (U4664)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
I think we're seriously looking at Tyler Adams, DM with RB Leipzig. Marsch gave him his debut in MLS. Another who fits in Marsch's style. Roca + Adams with Forshaw as cover? Just can't see Kalvin staying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those rumours aren’t going to go away anytime soon are they:
American, played for marsch in kp’s position and out of favour at his club.
Doesn’t mean it will happen obviously.
posted on 15/6/22
I hate saying this but KP needs to move on for his own good. He's 26 and won't be winning anything with Leeds anytime soon. At City,for example, he will win trophies and be surrounded by world class players. He will develop into an even better player. If he goes he does so with my blessing and best wishes.
posted on 15/6/22
Cant see Shackleton having a long term future at the club. Hope that Charlie and Drameh have a good season in the championship and then push for a first team place the following season. Makes sense.
posted on 15/6/22
City will be a good move for him, he’ll be rotated in and out…30 games a season will probably suit a player that carries massive responsibility at Leeds. He’s definitely capable of stepping up.
posted on 16/6/22
My view on Kalvin is that he came back into a relegation dogfight, and simply that was not the way to come back after a long injury:
I want to see us keep both him and Raphinha until after the World Cup and hopefully both will see their value increase with top draw performances. In Raphinha’s case, I think that if he has a stormer, 18 months on his contract will be long enough to persuade a team to part with the same amount of cash as now, and hopefully we will have benefited for those few extra months also.
Just another perspective.
posted on 16/6/22
I can't see how we can hold onto either Raphinha or Phillips, both of whom have sufficient potential to improve enormously if playing alongside better quality players and coached by better quality coaches. Both have reached critical stage of development in their careers, having broken into their respective national sides.
We will miss them but from the club's pov, yes it's time to cash in on these two players. I'd be surprised if we sign another winger this summer (unless Harrison goes too) but we must sign a DM to replace Phillips if he does go.
One thing that worries me is that it's Orta who's doing this work. Another is that we won't buy an established top quality DM but rather take a risk on a younger, cheaper player who can be developed in this role.
We must trust in Jesse Marsch to make sure Orta gets this right - we can't afford to ship goals like last season.
posted on 17/6/22
I think Kalvin will go because not only will the club accept an offer for him but he knows it’s time to move on and win things. At 26 he’s reaching his best years and a move to City will do him the world of good.
Hope I’m wrong as I’d love another season out of him and Raphinha, but we have to be realistic.
Am I the only one who thinks Adama would be a decent acquisition? Most on Twitter seem to think he’s just a beefed up James. I think he’s a far better player. Strong, direct and has ability. I wanted him last season.
Good luck to both Raphinha and Phillips. They have earned their respective moves.
Page 2 of 2