So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 10 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How should I know? But I do know that there is a programme on French television right now talking about the G7 meeting and Boris (hard to believe) had been praised by reporters, a general, and politicians as a shining example for backing them. Indeed the Ukrainian lead. Er has said the same
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh absolutely, he wants to be a modern day Churchill. Still his ambition has the right outcome for once.
He hasn't been bang on when it comes to the Ukrainian refugee crisis. Its also easy to send less money to Russia for gas, because we don't have a Nord Stream pipeline. I imagine we would have dragged our heels significantly if that was the case, given the even more dramatic knock on impact it would have had domestically.
What we did get right was the military support we provided prior to the invasion.
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats because we dont buy our gas from Russia like EU countries do.
And btw Britain is not at war with Russia. Let us not forget this.
We all know why Boris is msking these noises whilst being out of the country since the election results.
Who saw the clip of Boris getting out of a car outside his hotel in full running gear, then jogging 10m to the entrance. The bloke doesn’t give a sh-t about anything.
If he’s been bang on for the Ukraine crisis why haven’t we taken as much refugees as the rest of Europe?
The whole circus is total smokescreen
The right thing to do is shut the pipeline and cut ties with anything Russian, time for Germany as the most powerful country in the EU to do the right thing…yes it will hurt just as it hurt Churchill’s Britain doing the right thing in 1939.
The leadership of the Baltic states, particularly Estonia, and of Scandinavia, have been far more seriously and substantively supportive of Ukraine. The UK government led by Johnson, is fundamentally cynical and opportunistic. Its vocal support for Ukraine has been because it's a popular stance with the British public at a time when a distraction from a mountain of domestic scandals and failures has been very welcome. More than once Johnson has used a visit to Zelensky to avoid facing difficult questions at home. He's using Ukraine as a politically expedient fig leaf. Meanwhile, our economy is relatively less reliant on Russian gas and we're a big arms manufacturer, so it's easier and less painful for us to take these stances.
Maybe I'd be less jaded in my stance if the Tories hadn't taken huge quantities of donations from Russian oligarchs, refused to publish in full the security report into Russian interference in UK politics or to pursue its implications, and against his own security advice to make son-of-KGB-officer-and-friendly-newspaper-proprietor Evgeny Lebedev a member of the House of Lords.
And as Arab says, meanwhile we've been disgraceful in terms of the numbers of Ukrainian refugees we've let into the county (even if our treatment of them is considerably less dehumanising than that of brown skinned refugees).
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
The right thing to do is shut the pipeline and cut ties with anything Russian, time for Germany as the most powerful country in the EU to do the right thing…yes it will hurt just as it hurt Churchill’s Britain doing the right thing in 1939.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rations , mend & make do I can just see it coming , Boris loving it
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 5 minutes ago
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So WW3 then ?
What a nice thought.
comment by SteveF (U22027)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 5 minutes ago
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So WW3 then ?
What a nice thought.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm we didn't set a red line with Ukraine. This is almost a case of let them have Ukraine while we exhaust them and their resources from the fringes.
Then the red line is drawn with the Nato border and Finland/Sweden with them already significantly weaker in the short term at least and likely dealing with partisans in Ukraine.
On the question of Russian mobilisation:
1) So far most of the cannon fodder has been from poor provincial outposts and the 'breakaway' republics of Donbas where there is martial law and total male conscription. There's a reason why the Russian state is hesitant about sending the boys of middle class families and from Moscow and St Petersburg to die: this will cause political blowback and a kind of discontent that's harder to control.
2) Even if you have enough bodies, you need to train and equipment them. Training takes time. Even the first wave of the invasion saw troops with poorly maintained and surprisingly ancient equipment. Russia has a large defence budget but the military functions the same way as the rest of Putin's Russia: everyone understands that they are entitled to take a cut of every budget they control in exchange for subservience to the boss.
3) Russian troop motivation is low. Unless you are very poor and/or lack connections, you're likely to evade military service (in peacetime) because of the brutal bullying and low prestige associated with the army. There are revealing videos of Russian dudes being interviewed on the street, where first they are asked if they support the war (and they come out with a string of patriotic, macho speech as is expected of them) and then they're asked if they'd be ready to sign up here on this form to fight for the cause. You see the gap between 'public opinion' and 'what they really think' as the expression on their face changes.
4) Where Russia has a real advantage is artillery. They can pummel Ukrainian lines and civilians from a distance for a long time, currently without much fear of resistance or retaliation.
The prob with Johnson is not what he is doing with Ukraine, but why he is doing it. Every decision is made against one criterion - will it help save his miserable skin. If giving military aid to Putin was popular he'd be first in line. He is a complete fecking menace, a real danger.
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 42 seconds ago
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that's directed at me, I don't claim to be a military expert but I do have a PhD in Russian, a lot of background knowledge about Russian culture, politics and society from living there and visiting regularly since and, from the moment this catastrophic and evil invasion was launched, have been reading all the academic and expert sources I can find on the military situation.
Not just you Rr. And im not doubting your Russian knowledge and experiences and I agree and appreciate how informative you are with most of what you say usually. This is a sharticle that 52 has chucked in like a hand grenade apparently praising Boris... to wind people up is the only reason I can see. It all just makes me laugh sometimes on ja606. This place!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 42 seconds ago
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that's directed at me, I don't claim to be a military expert but I do have a PhD in Russian, a lot of background knowledge about Russian culture, politics and society from living there and visiting regularly since and, from the moment this catastrophic and evil invasion was launched, have been reading all the academic and expert sources I can find on the military situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of sheer intrigue, what on earth did you do to have a PhD in a language?!
I've got a Bachelors in French, and speak it fluently...
comment by Luke Combs - FJB (U3979)
posted 7 minutes ago
Out of sheer intrigue, what on earth did you do to have a PhD in a language?!
I've got a Bachelors in French, and speak it fluently...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The PhD wasn't about Russian language, but in the field of Russian studies (and therefore required fluency / primarily reading Russian sources). Why did I do it? I was drifting aimlessly. I'd done a BA, lived in Russia for a bit, then did a MA, then lived in Germany for a couple of years. I didn't really know what to do next, and I thought of a topic that hadn't been researched, which I found interesting and I thought would contribute to the field.
In retrospect, this was a mistake. I found it a slog, quite a lonely kind of work (whereas, I discovered, I prefer to work collaboratively with fellow humans) and I concluded I didn't want to stay in academia.
I see in his speech at the G7, Johnson talked about the value of international law in terms of the Ukraine crisis. On the same day, he encourages his party to vote to break it by backing out of the Brexit agreement.
I think that pretty much sums up how 'principled' he is.
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Boris
Page 1 of 4
posted on 27/6/22
Really???
posted on 27/6/22
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
posted on 27/6/22
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
posted on 27/6/22
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 10 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How should I know? But I do know that there is a programme on French television right now talking about the G7 meeting and Boris (hard to believe) had been praised by reporters, a general, and politicians as a shining example for backing them. Indeed the Ukrainian lead. Er has said the same
posted on 27/6/22
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh absolutely, he wants to be a modern day Churchill. Still his ambition has the right outcome for once.
posted on 27/6/22
He hasn't been bang on when it comes to the Ukrainian refugee crisis. Its also easy to send less money to Russia for gas, because we don't have a Nord Stream pipeline. I imagine we would have dragged our heels significantly if that was the case, given the even more dramatic knock on impact it would have had domestically.
What we did get right was the military support we provided prior to the invasion.
posted on 27/6/22
comment by thebettertwin (U8719)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 7 minutes ago
So what backing is the uk providing Ukraine that the other European leaders are refusing them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well not sending $1 billion a day to Russia for oil and gas for a start. Talk is cheap. Action on the other hand...
Pretty easy to send out of date- due to be decommissioned- weapons when the US is footing the bill for their replacements. Macron is still thinking he is a kingmaker able to negotiate with Adolf and Germany are dragging their feet desperate not to see their pipelines cut.
Having said all that, Boris is just an opportunist as ever. He is just saying what he thinks will be popular to the electorate and he would probably happily change his tune if he thought he could gain from it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats because we dont buy our gas from Russia like EU countries do.
And btw Britain is not at war with Russia. Let us not forget this.
We all know why Boris is msking these noises whilst being out of the country since the election results.
posted on 27/6/22
Who saw the clip of Boris getting out of a car outside his hotel in full running gear, then jogging 10m to the entrance. The bloke doesn’t give a sh-t about anything.
posted on 27/6/22
If he’s been bang on for the Ukraine crisis why haven’t we taken as much refugees as the rest of Europe?
posted on 27/6/22
The whole circus is total smokescreen
posted on 28/6/22
The right thing to do is shut the pipeline and cut ties with anything Russian, time for Germany as the most powerful country in the EU to do the right thing…yes it will hurt just as it hurt Churchill’s Britain doing the right thing in 1939.
posted on 28/6/22
The leadership of the Baltic states, particularly Estonia, and of Scandinavia, have been far more seriously and substantively supportive of Ukraine. The UK government led by Johnson, is fundamentally cynical and opportunistic. Its vocal support for Ukraine has been because it's a popular stance with the British public at a time when a distraction from a mountain of domestic scandals and failures has been very welcome. More than once Johnson has used a visit to Zelensky to avoid facing difficult questions at home. He's using Ukraine as a politically expedient fig leaf. Meanwhile, our economy is relatively less reliant on Russian gas and we're a big arms manufacturer, so it's easier and less painful for us to take these stances.
Maybe I'd be less jaded in my stance if the Tories hadn't taken huge quantities of donations from Russian oligarchs, refused to publish in full the security report into Russian interference in UK politics or to pursue its implications, and against his own security advice to make son-of-KGB-officer-and-friendly-newspaper-proprietor Evgeny Lebedev a member of the House of Lords.
posted on 28/6/22
And as Arab says, meanwhile we've been disgraceful in terms of the numbers of Ukrainian refugees we've let into the county (even if our treatment of them is considerably less dehumanising than that of brown skinned refugees).
posted on 28/6/22
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 2 hours, 32 minutes ago
The right thing to do is shut the pipeline and cut ties with anything Russian, time for Germany as the most powerful country in the EU to do the right thing…yes it will hurt just as it hurt Churchill’s Britain doing the right thing in 1939.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rations , mend & make do I can just see it coming , Boris loving it
posted on 28/6/22
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 5 minutes ago
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So WW3 then ?
What a nice thought.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by SteveF (U22027)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 5 minutes ago
I agree but still feel like we could give them whatever they need and eventually the Russians will still overcome them with sheer numbers.
They would need a general mobilisation but I doubt they can be stopped by Ukrainian soldiers alone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So WW3 then ?
What a nice thought.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm we didn't set a red line with Ukraine. This is almost a case of let them have Ukraine while we exhaust them and their resources from the fringes.
Then the red line is drawn with the Nato border and Finland/Sweden with them already significantly weaker in the short term at least and likely dealing with partisans in Ukraine.
posted on 28/6/22
On the question of Russian mobilisation:
1) So far most of the cannon fodder has been from poor provincial outposts and the 'breakaway' republics of Donbas where there is martial law and total male conscription. There's a reason why the Russian state is hesitant about sending the boys of middle class families and from Moscow and St Petersburg to die: this will cause political blowback and a kind of discontent that's harder to control.
2) Even if you have enough bodies, you need to train and equipment them. Training takes time. Even the first wave of the invasion saw troops with poorly maintained and surprisingly ancient equipment. Russia has a large defence budget but the military functions the same way as the rest of Putin's Russia: everyone understands that they are entitled to take a cut of every budget they control in exchange for subservience to the boss.
3) Russian troop motivation is low. Unless you are very poor and/or lack connections, you're likely to evade military service (in peacetime) because of the brutal bullying and low prestige associated with the army. There are revealing videos of Russian dudes being interviewed on the street, where first they are asked if they support the war (and they come out with a string of patriotic, macho speech as is expected of them) and then they're asked if they'd be ready to sign up here on this form to fight for the cause. You see the gap between 'public opinion' and 'what they really think' as the expression on their face changes.
4) Where Russia has a real advantage is artillery. They can pummel Ukrainian lines and civilians from a distance for a long time, currently without much fear of resistance or retaliation.
posted on 28/6/22
The prob with Johnson is not what he is doing with Ukraine, but why he is doing it. Every decision is made against one criterion - will it help save his miserable skin. If giving military aid to Putin was popular he'd be first in line. He is a complete fecking menace, a real danger.
posted on 28/6/22
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 42 seconds ago
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that's directed at me, I don't claim to be a military expert but I do have a PhD in Russian, a lot of background knowledge about Russian culture, politics and society from living there and visiting regularly since and, from the moment this catastrophic and evil invasion was launched, have been reading all the academic and expert sources I can find on the military situation.
posted on 28/6/22
Not just you Rr. And im not doubting your Russian knowledge and experiences and I agree and appreciate how informative you are with most of what you say usually. This is a sharticle that 52 has chucked in like a hand grenade apparently praising Boris... to wind people up is the only reason I can see. It all just makes me laugh sometimes on ja606. This place!
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - What is it now, Ralf? (U21434)
posted 42 seconds ago
so many military experts itk about this war on this website.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that's directed at me, I don't claim to be a military expert but I do have a PhD in Russian, a lot of background knowledge about Russian culture, politics and society from living there and visiting regularly since and, from the moment this catastrophic and evil invasion was launched, have been reading all the academic and expert sources I can find on the military situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of sheer intrigue, what on earth did you do to have a PhD in a language?!
I've got a Bachelors in French, and speak it fluently...
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Luke Combs - FJB (U3979)
posted 7 minutes ago
Out of sheer intrigue, what on earth did you do to have a PhD in a language?!
I've got a Bachelors in French, and speak it fluently...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The PhD wasn't about Russian language, but in the field of Russian studies (and therefore required fluency / primarily reading Russian sources). Why did I do it? I was drifting aimlessly. I'd done a BA, lived in Russia for a bit, then did a MA, then lived in Germany for a couple of years. I didn't really know what to do next, and I thought of a topic that hadn't been researched, which I found interesting and I thought would contribute to the field.
In retrospect, this was a mistake. I found it a slog, quite a lonely kind of work (whereas, I discovered, I prefer to work collaboratively with fellow humans) and I concluded I didn't want to stay in academia.
posted on 28/6/22
I see in his speech at the G7, Johnson talked about the value of international law in terms of the Ukraine crisis. On the same day, he encourages his party to vote to break it by backing out of the Brexit agreement.
I think that pretty much sums up how 'principled' he is.
Page 1 of 4