comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not anymore apparently or they wouldn't be prevaricating offering him a new deal.
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Spent all their money on Mane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So they upgraded and want some mug in the premier league to spend more on an inferior player?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I say mane was inferior?
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So you acknowledge Mane is superior to Gnabry. So why not look for someone who can be the next Mane?
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 1 minute ago
Gnabry is better than anyone we have. Dunno why arsenal apparently are too good for proven world class players because we have "potential talent"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because Arteta doesn't veer away from his plan. Coupled with Arsenal being slow to act and therefore suffer from Shoulda Woulda Coulda Syndrome.
So let's get Gnabry and a new manager 😁👍
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
We aren't after him. Whether we should be is a different story...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry 14 G 5 Assists (weaker league and better squad)
Saka 11 G 7 Assists
ESR 10 G 2 Assists
Martinelli 6 G 6 Assists
Do we really need him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Improved squad depth with a proven player who can play on either wing and therefore help with changes to the system? Why not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a) How many times have you seen Arteta use the squad?
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
b) How would sitting on the bench improve Marti, ESR or Saka?
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
c) Marti is a future 9. Saka a no. 10 and so is ESR. If anything if you want to change the system we could do with a Gakpo (who is very similar to RVP). Not sure Gnabry provides anything more than what we already have. Keep in mind Jesus/Eddie can also both play wide. And then there is Marquinhos who is a complete wild card.
MP: Again, so why look at Raphinha who would back Saka up? Also, you spoke about those players' FUTURE positions. Right now, particularly if Pepe goes (or even if he doesn't), who is direct back up for Saka on the right... as we go into a hectic WC-interrupted 4 competition season?
Don't get me wrong here. I wished Wenger never sold Gnabry. But to bring him back with all the talent already in the squad just seems an immense waste of money and nothing more than a duplication of skills we have in the squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 3 minutes ago
So let's get Gnabry and a new manager 😁👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some would love that but Arteta ain't going nowhere so we're stuck with his rigid approach. We can only hope it brings results (and trophies).
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
------------------
Like suggested above I think Raffy is a luxury player who we don't actually need. However stylistically, Raffy is very different to Gnabry. Whereas Gnabry stays wide, Raffy can already play that half/half position that Ineista used to roam about in. Which means he can takeover a game. Ganbry isn't that type or that class.
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
---------------------------------------------------
Are you serious? Saka is already valued around €100m and was talked of as Liverpool replacement to Salah before he signed an extension. He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?
ESR similarly has scored 10 goals in the premier league even with all his injury issues. How is he going to improve by not playing?
I don't think Gnabry is much better ESR and I believe Saka is already on par with Gnabry and only going to get better.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
------------------
Like suggested above I think Raffy is a luxury player who we don't actually need. However stylistically, Raffy is very different to Gnabry. Whereas Gnabry stays wide, Raffy can already play that half/half position that Ineista used to roam about in. Which means he can takeover a game. Ganbry isn't that type or that class.
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
---------------------------------------------------
"Are you serious? Saka is already valued around €100m and was talked of as Liverpool replacement to Salah before he signed an extension. He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?"
MP: So what if that's his value? You think he can't learn anything else? At 21 years old with at least 10 years at a top level ahead of him? You think he's peaked? Did you not hear Arteta saying that Saka going to England would be good as he'll learn stuff from a different group of players / different manager (when he was first called up)? Do you seriously think that's over now that he's 21 and worth £100m??
"ESR similarly has scored 10 goals in the premier league even with all his injury issues. How is he going to improve by not playing?"
MP: Again, young player... do you think he knows it all and has nothing left to learn? Also... injuries. Unless you believe he'll play through those, we'll need cover. And what happens when you have a combination of injuries and fatigue at that point where we're playing 3 games a week? Have you forgotten all the times we've thought that we're good for players only to struggle to field a full team because of the above issues?
"I don't think Gnabry is much better ESR and I believe Saka is already on par with Gnabry and only going to get better."
MP: Make up your mind. Is Saka the £100m who can't learn anything else or is he going to get better. This is the kind of inconsistency that makes this conversation almost not worth having...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you calling yourself some version of "genius"...?
It seems you have a hangup about the valuation so here is a link to player values conducted by an independent think tank connected to FIFA.
1/6/2022
https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp384/en/
Thats Saka's value right now! It is based on potential and what his perceived ceiling is. This is why City are keeping an eye on his contract situation.
And he has to realise his potential. Where am I saying he is the finished article? But if you think he is not going already a guaranteed starter than you haven't been watching very many games.
If Saka was sold today thats what he would cost another club. And if he continues to develop that valuation will increase.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
It seems you have a hangup about the valuation so here is a link to player values conducted by an independent think tank connected to FIFA.
1/6/2022
https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp384/en/
Thats Saka's value right now! It is based on potential and what his perceived ceiling is. This is why City are keeping an eye on his contract situation.
And he has to realise his potential. Where am I saying he is the finished article? But if you think he is not going already a guaranteed starter than you haven't been watching very many games.
If Saka was sold today thats what he would cost another club. And if he continues to develop that valuation will increase.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Value was all you. I never mentioned it until you did. My point being that value isn't the only measure of a player.
Where did you say he's the finished article? You didn't say it explicitly but it was inferred by you saying this: "He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?" (for clarity, the inference being that if you're not learning in training, you know it all and therefore you're the finished article).
So your contradiction and my question still stand: is he the finished article who needs to learn nothing or is he going to improve...?
Saka is not the finished article. But he is already good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Arsenal and is pushing to be starting for England. That should give you some idea of what scouts and clubs think of him at just 20 years old.
Is it clearer for you?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Saka is not the finished article. But he is already good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Arsenal and is pushing to be starting for England. That should give you some idea of what scouts and clubs think of him at just 20 years old.
Is it clearer for you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems you've taken this approach because you don't want to tackle the questions asked. What do other clubs and the value Saka has have to do with looking at Gnabry (and almost bringing in Raphinha) to swap with Saka?
Do we not need any support for Saka? So bringing in another player for him to push himself against (and learn from) is a waste? He's okay to be out right forward for all games this season (60+ games)? Those are the questions not what his value is or whether he's a starter. You almost had me with your attempt to change the narrative!
Swap in our game play not swap between clubs... to be clear.
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
Did Arsenal really need to sign a new goalkeeper who will want lots of playing time?
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy. Bearing in mind my last question specifically said "a player" not Gnabry... which I used because I have no expectation that we will bring Gnabry in (see my very first comment here). So since I have to break it down like I'm cutting a child's food for you to eat, if a player like Gnabry or Raphinha, it could be competing (or, taking into account injuries in other forward areas, they could play WITH each other); if a younger player, it could be a case of understudying. Either way... SAKA WOULD HAVE SUPPORT!!!
I'll bite re: strikers. I actually would like us to go for one more striker, of the Abrahams / Scamacca mould. Unlikely so the question is whether we keep Balogun to have three strikers (which potentially disproves your theory that our strikers will only number 2).
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He must be. Turner will curtail his development.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you don't understand how transfers work. So let me explain it to you. When you attempt to buy current Internationals, you have to guarantee playing time. In fact a lot of the times their contracts are based on bonuses based on appearances. So you cannot attract anyone by saying I am bringing you in to 'compete' with a player.
Do you remember how Giroud asked for transfer as soon as Lacazette was bought? And first transfer window after that he moved on.
Thats why you generally buy players of a lesser profile to sit on the bench or 'compete'. That way you do not hurt the profile of your current player or literally you are sending a message to your current player he can now leave!
And they try to leave if you can find a buyer. Which is what is happening to Leno right now. As soon as we bought Ramsdale, Leno knew he was finished at Arsenal
comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure of your point.
Do you think that Matt Turner is of the same profile as Gnabry?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you don't understand how transfers work. So let me explain it to you. When you attempt to buy current Internationals, you have to guarantee playing time. In fact a lot of the times their contracts are based on bonuses based on appearances. So you cannot attract anyone by saying I am bringing you in to 'compete' with a player.
Do you remember how Giroud asked for transfer as soon as Lacazette was bought? And first transfer window after that he moved on.
Thats why you generally buy players of a lesser profile to sit on the bench or 'compete'. That way you do not hurt the profile of your current player or literally you are sending a message to your current player he can now leave!
And they try to leave if you can find a buyer. Which is what is happening to Leno right now. As soon as we bought Ramsdale, Leno knew he was finished at Arsenal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many times have we heard Wenger say that he cannot and will not guarantee playing time. So spare me this idea that that is an immovable clause in a contract. Unless you can show me in the majority of football contracts that this clause is standard.
Conversely, how many times have we wondered why some players that have come in haven't been playing as much only to find out that there was some clause linked to a financial benefit that the club decided it didn't want to honour. Point being... even if there IS a clause, the club can ignore it once the player is here.
Secondly, Nketiah just signed (and boy did Arsenal fight to keep him) with a view that he's going to play. Jesus just signed with a view that he's going to play. They both predominantly play the same position. Are you saying that they both have the same contract with this clause which will almost undoubtedly leave one player short. Should we therefore expect an exit in summer 2023? Who's profile will be hurt?
Do you really think Giroud's departure was simply down to the arrival of Laca and some unconfirmed clause? Come on, even you have to realise that that's a stretch of Mr Fantastic proportions!
So again we return to Raphinha. Is he this player of a lesser profile who will sit on the bench? Or is he a player of international level who has a clause in his contract that sets out minimum minutes to be played? Or was he considered the right player to come in and compete with and support Saka (among other forwards)?
I'll bite re: strikers. I actually would like us to go for one more striker, of the Abrahams / Scamacca mould. Unlikely so the question is whether we keep Balogun to have three strikers (which potentially disproves your theory that our strikers will only number 2).
--------------------------------
My theory on strikers? I haven't posted here, so not sure what you mean.
However its quite simple. Jesus is no.1. And Eddie is his 'understudy'. The problem is that Eddie is very similar in style to Jesus and in my opinion it may hurt if teams sit deep where I think someone taller would help.
Which is why I wanted Gakpo as an addition who can offer something different. I doubt he would have an issue being a squad player at this point in his career. He can then play on the left at times backing ESR/Marti or in the middle when the situation requires it.
However there is no way you will be able to attract the likes of Osimhen or Tammy or even DCL to sit on the bench. And if Arteta has promised Jesus the no.9 role as has been rumoured then he is not going to move to the wing to accommodate a more prominent profile player.
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Serge Gnarby
Page 2 of 4
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
Not anymore apparently or they wouldn't be prevaricating offering him a new deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spent all their money on Mane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So they upgraded and want some mug in the premier league to spend more on an inferior player?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I say mane was inferior?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you acknowledge Mane is superior to Gnabry. So why not look for someone who can be the next Mane?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 1 minute ago
Gnabry is better than anyone we have. Dunno why arsenal apparently are too good for proven world class players because we have "potential talent"
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Because Arteta doesn't veer away from his plan. Coupled with Arsenal being slow to act and therefore suffer from Shoulda Woulda Coulda Syndrome.
posted on 4/7/22
So let's get Gnabry and a new manager 😁👍
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
We aren't after him. Whether we should be is a different story...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry 14 G 5 Assists (weaker league and better squad)
Saka 11 G 7 Assists
ESR 10 G 2 Assists
Martinelli 6 G 6 Assists
Do we really need him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Improved squad depth with a proven player who can play on either wing and therefore help with changes to the system? Why not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
a) How many times have you seen Arteta use the squad?
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
b) How would sitting on the bench improve Marti, ESR or Saka?
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
c) Marti is a future 9. Saka a no. 10 and so is ESR. If anything if you want to change the system we could do with a Gakpo (who is very similar to RVP). Not sure Gnabry provides anything more than what we already have. Keep in mind Jesus/Eddie can also both play wide. And then there is Marquinhos who is a complete wild card.
MP: Again, so why look at Raphinha who would back Saka up? Also, you spoke about those players' FUTURE positions. Right now, particularly if Pepe goes (or even if he doesn't), who is direct back up for Saka on the right... as we go into a hectic WC-interrupted 4 competition season?
Don't get me wrong here. I wished Wenger never sold Gnabry. But to bring him back with all the talent already in the squad just seems an immense waste of money and nothing more than a duplication of skills we have in the squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Arteta's Culture Club ♫He is a man without conviction, he is a man who doesn't know♫ (U3245)
posted 3 minutes ago
So let's get Gnabry and a new manager 😁👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some would love that but Arteta ain't going nowhere so we're stuck with his rigid approach. We can only hope it brings results (and trophies).
posted on 4/7/22
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
------------------
Like suggested above I think Raffy is a luxury player who we don't actually need. However stylistically, Raffy is very different to Gnabry. Whereas Gnabry stays wide, Raffy can already play that half/half position that Ineista used to roam about in. Which means he can takeover a game. Ganbry isn't that type or that class.
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
---------------------------------------------------
Are you serious? Saka is already valued around €100m and was talked of as Liverpool replacement to Salah before he signed an extension. He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?
ESR similarly has scored 10 goals in the premier league even with all his injury issues. How is he going to improve by not playing?
I don't think Gnabry is much better ESR and I believe Saka is already on par with Gnabry and only going to get better.
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
MP: What was the plan with Raphinha then?
------------------
Like suggested above I think Raffy is a luxury player who we don't actually need. However stylistically, Raffy is very different to Gnabry. Whereas Gnabry stays wide, Raffy can already play that half/half position that Ineista used to roam about in. Which means he can takeover a game. Ganbry isn't that type or that class.
MP: Players push each other in training. A player on the bench will want to play not sit there so will work harder. It's not that difficult to understand.
---------------------------------------------------
"Are you serious? Saka is already valued around €100m and was talked of as Liverpool replacement to Salah before he signed an extension. He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?"
MP: So what if that's his value? You think he can't learn anything else? At 21 years old with at least 10 years at a top level ahead of him? You think he's peaked? Did you not hear Arteta saying that Saka going to England would be good as he'll learn stuff from a different group of players / different manager (when he was first called up)? Do you seriously think that's over now that he's 21 and worth £100m??
"ESR similarly has scored 10 goals in the premier league even with all his injury issues. How is he going to improve by not playing?"
MP: Again, young player... do you think he knows it all and has nothing left to learn? Also... injuries. Unless you believe he'll play through those, we'll need cover. And what happens when you have a combination of injuries and fatigue at that point where we're playing 3 games a week? Have you forgotten all the times we've thought that we're good for players only to struggle to field a full team because of the above issues?
"I don't think Gnabry is much better ESR and I believe Saka is already on par with Gnabry and only going to get better."
MP: Make up your mind. Is Saka the £100m who can't learn anything else or is he going to get better. This is the kind of inconsistency that makes this conversation almost not worth having...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you calling yourself some version of "genius"...?
posted on 4/7/22
It seems you have a hangup about the valuation so here is a link to player values conducted by an independent think tank connected to FIFA.
1/6/2022
https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp384/en/
Thats Saka's value right now! It is based on potential and what his perceived ceiling is. This is why City are keeping an eye on his contract situation.
And he has to realise his potential. Where am I saying he is the finished article? But if you think he is not going already a guaranteed starter than you haven't been watching very many games.
If Saka was sold today thats what he would cost another club. And if he continues to develop that valuation will increase.
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
It seems you have a hangup about the valuation so here is a link to player values conducted by an independent think tank connected to FIFA.
1/6/2022
https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp384/en/
Thats Saka's value right now! It is based on potential and what his perceived ceiling is. This is why City are keeping an eye on his contract situation.
And he has to realise his potential. Where am I saying he is the finished article? But if you think he is not going already a guaranteed starter than you haven't been watching very many games.
If Saka was sold today thats what he would cost another club. And if he continues to develop that valuation will increase.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Value was all you. I never mentioned it until you did. My point being that value isn't the only measure of a player.
Where did you say he's the finished article? You didn't say it explicitly but it was inferred by you saying this: "He is pushing as the first choice for England and you want him to learn in training?" (for clarity, the inference being that if you're not learning in training, you know it all and therefore you're the finished article).
posted on 4/7/22
So your contradiction and my question still stand: is he the finished article who needs to learn nothing or is he going to improve...?
posted on 4/7/22
Saka is not the finished article. But he is already good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Arsenal and is pushing to be starting for England. That should give you some idea of what scouts and clubs think of him at just 20 years old.
Is it clearer for you?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Saka is not the finished article. But he is already good enough to be a guaranteed starter for Arsenal and is pushing to be starting for England. That should give you some idea of what scouts and clubs think of him at just 20 years old.
Is it clearer for you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems you've taken this approach because you don't want to tackle the questions asked. What do other clubs and the value Saka has have to do with looking at Gnabry (and almost bringing in Raphinha) to swap with Saka?
Do we not need any support for Saka? So bringing in another player for him to push himself against (and learn from) is a waste? He's okay to be out right forward for all games this season (60+ games)? Those are the questions not what his value is or whether he's a starter. You almost had me with your attempt to change the narrative!
posted on 4/7/22
Swap in our game play not swap between clubs... to be clear.
posted on 4/7/22
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
posted on 4/7/22
Did Arsenal really need to sign a new goalkeeper who will want lots of playing time?
posted on 4/7/22
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy. Bearing in mind my last question specifically said "a player" not Gnabry... which I used because I have no expectation that we will bring Gnabry in (see my very first comment here). So since I have to break it down like I'm cutting a child's food for you to eat, if a player like Gnabry or Raphinha, it could be competing (or, taking into account injuries in other forward areas, they could play WITH each other); if a younger player, it could be a case of understudying. Either way... SAKA WOULD HAVE SUPPORT!!!
I'll bite re: strikers. I actually would like us to go for one more striker, of the Abrahams / Scamacca mould. Unlikely so the question is whether we keep Balogun to have three strikers (which potentially disproves your theory that our strikers will only number 2).
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He must be. Turner will curtail his development.
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you don't understand how transfers work. So let me explain it to you. When you attempt to buy current Internationals, you have to guarantee playing time. In fact a lot of the times their contracts are based on bonuses based on appearances. So you cannot attract anyone by saying I am bringing you in to 'compete' with a player.
Do you remember how Giroud asked for transfer as soon as Lacazette was bought? And first transfer window after that he moved on.
Thats why you generally buy players of a lesser profile to sit on the bench or 'compete'. That way you do not hurt the profile of your current player or literally you are sending a message to your current player he can now leave!
And they try to leave if you can find a buyer. Which is what is happening to Leno right now. As soon as we bought Ramsdale, Leno knew he was finished at Arsenal
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Globaled (U7198)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
Turner has already agreed to sit on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Ramsdale leaving the Gunners?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure of your point.
Do you think that Matt Turner is of the same profile as Gnabry?
posted on 4/7/22
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
What narrative do you want me address?
Saka will start. Jesus will start. and so we are talking of one position which is presently open to competition.
And frankly in my opinion only if Arteta starts with 4-1-4-1 having already bought Vieira!
So you believe we should curtail the development of ESR and Martinelli to open a slot for a player who offers nothing very different to ESR or Martinelli?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does bringing in a player to compete with Saka (or be his understudy) curtail his development?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gnabry is 26 years old and a German International currently playing for Giant German club in the CL.
In what world do you think he will agree to be Saka's understudy?
And why should Arsenal spend £40m for an understudy when we still have glaring holes in CM and at CF where the only player backing up Jesus is Eddie Nketiah?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You clearly ignored me writing "compete with" in order to turn this into something about understudy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you don't understand how transfers work. So let me explain it to you. When you attempt to buy current Internationals, you have to guarantee playing time. In fact a lot of the times their contracts are based on bonuses based on appearances. So you cannot attract anyone by saying I am bringing you in to 'compete' with a player.
Do you remember how Giroud asked for transfer as soon as Lacazette was bought? And first transfer window after that he moved on.
Thats why you generally buy players of a lesser profile to sit on the bench or 'compete'. That way you do not hurt the profile of your current player or literally you are sending a message to your current player he can now leave!
And they try to leave if you can find a buyer. Which is what is happening to Leno right now. As soon as we bought Ramsdale, Leno knew he was finished at Arsenal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many times have we heard Wenger say that he cannot and will not guarantee playing time. So spare me this idea that that is an immovable clause in a contract. Unless you can show me in the majority of football contracts that this clause is standard.
Conversely, how many times have we wondered why some players that have come in haven't been playing as much only to find out that there was some clause linked to a financial benefit that the club decided it didn't want to honour. Point being... even if there IS a clause, the club can ignore it once the player is here.
Secondly, Nketiah just signed (and boy did Arsenal fight to keep him) with a view that he's going to play. Jesus just signed with a view that he's going to play. They both predominantly play the same position. Are you saying that they both have the same contract with this clause which will almost undoubtedly leave one player short. Should we therefore expect an exit in summer 2023? Who's profile will be hurt?
Do you really think Giroud's departure was simply down to the arrival of Laca and some unconfirmed clause? Come on, even you have to realise that that's a stretch of Mr Fantastic proportions!
So again we return to Raphinha. Is he this player of a lesser profile who will sit on the bench? Or is he a player of international level who has a clause in his contract that sets out minimum minutes to be played? Or was he considered the right player to come in and compete with and support Saka (among other forwards)?
posted on 4/7/22
I'll bite re: strikers. I actually would like us to go for one more striker, of the Abrahams / Scamacca mould. Unlikely so the question is whether we keep Balogun to have three strikers (which potentially disproves your theory that our strikers will only number 2).
--------------------------------
My theory on strikers? I haven't posted here, so not sure what you mean.
However its quite simple. Jesus is no.1. And Eddie is his 'understudy'. The problem is that Eddie is very similar in style to Jesus and in my opinion it may hurt if teams sit deep where I think someone taller would help.
Which is why I wanted Gakpo as an addition who can offer something different. I doubt he would have an issue being a squad player at this point in his career. He can then play on the left at times backing ESR/Marti or in the middle when the situation requires it.
However there is no way you will be able to attract the likes of Osimhen or Tammy or even DCL to sit on the bench. And if Arteta has promised Jesus the no.9 role as has been rumoured then he is not going to move to the wing to accommodate a more prominent profile player.
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