The FIA admitting that Masi handed the title to Max wrongly with his application of the rules is good to hear as a fan I suppose.
Still adds a black mark over Max's win which I think is a bit unfair hopefully he wins more so that a tainted title is not the focus of his achievements.
Masi is a absolute fool who applied his own rules for either the benefit of drama or driver preference at the expense of sporting integrity.
Masi made a mistake....but I don't know how many times I've read articles like this and opinions basically nailing Masi to the wall.....without a single thing being said with regards to the teams actively working with the race director to try and ensure, that if it is at all possible, races should be completed under green flag racing conditions, so that important races such as this one, arent decided in a processional nature under a safety car.
Before Abu Dhabi, it was said time and time and time again that this is what everyone wanted....by everyone, including Toto Wolff.
What Masi did, although wrong, was precisely what the teams had been asking for, do everything he could to get the race to finish under green flag conditions, so that such an important race was decided on track, and not behind a safety car.
Really grates on me that this is hardly ever spoken about.
Teams and drivers whinge and moan about bloody everything, and so much pressure was put on Masi in the 2021 season it was ridiculous. Annoys me that this regularly doesn't get picked up on at all.
Go back to the Saudi GP where Masi was basically cutting deals with the teams after a red flag to say what their drivers positions would be for the restart etc....where is that within the rules??.....and who complained about the rulebook not being strictly adhered to in those situations??
Teams constantly want their cake and to eat it...Masi took it too far yes, but the seeds for this were sown by the teams themselves, including Wolff, which is why it grates to see him talk about Masi in the manner he does.
The guy bent over backwards at times to help the teams and give them what they wanted, and Wolff was happy with that until it bit him on the erse
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 9 minutes ago
Masi made a mistake....but I don't know how many times I've read articles like this and opinions basically nailing Masi to the wall.....without a single thing being said with regards to the teams actively working with the race director to try and ensure, that if it is at all possible, races should be completed under green flag racing conditions, so that important races such as this one, arent decided in a processional nature under a safety car.
Before Abu Dhabi, it was said time and time and time again that this is what everyone wanted....by everyone, including Toto Wolff.
What Masi did, although wrong, was precisely what the teams had been asking for, do everything he could to get the race to finish under green flag conditions, so that such an important race was decided on track, and not behind a safety car.
Really grates on me that this is hardly ever spoken about.
Teams and drivers whinge and moan about bloody everything, and so much pressure was put on Masi in the 2021 season it was ridiculous. Annoys me that this regularly doesn't get picked up on at all.
Go back to the Saudi GP where Masi was basically cutting deals with the teams after a red flag to say what their drivers positions would be for the restart etc....where is that within the rules??.....and who complained about the rulebook not being strictly adhered to in those situations??
Teams constantly want their cake and to eat it...Masi took it too far yes, but the seeds for this were sown by the teams themselves, including Wolff, which is why it grates to see him talk about Masi in the manner he does.
The guy bent over backwards at times to help the teams and give them what they wanted, and Wolff was happy with that until it bit him on the erse
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how do you know it was a mistake though?
even it was , its far too costly a mistake to be allowed to make.
It doesnt matter what the teams want his job was apply the rules to ensure a fair race.
what he did was come up with his own rules to manipulate the outcome
the rules were there, quite clear, they had been established since the beginning of the season, he had followed them correctly all season and for whatever reason be that corrupt or mistake he didnt follow them.
this resulted in prob the biggest farce in modern day motorsport. an absolute joke that left a bad taste in many many fans and (in terms of America certainly) and with a very large amount of casual fans made them walk away from watching it
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
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i find it hard to believe it was a mistake ... how can you apply the rule correctly all season then in the most important part of the season you dont?
I firmly believe he did it for the drama of the sport to create headlines and get viewers talking and tuning in. not any venedetta against Lewis or Merc.
He had applied the correct rule every single time that year under safety car he didnt adapt anything. At no point in the season had he changed the rule under safety car ... not once. He followed the same procedure every single time, the way it has always been.
However with 4 laps to go in the last race he decided to make up his own rule to avoid a boring end to the season at the expense of sporting integrity IMO.
He was not fit for purpose, it wasnt a difficult call to make, it was no different to the same call he had made plenty of times in his position. He wanted drama. The sports image was damaged as a result of it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Belgian GP which was a complete washout, I don't remember a single race that didn't end under green flag conditions in the 2021 season.
You peddle this line that Masi applied the correct rule every single time that year and didn't adapt anything until the last race of the season.
If you can tell me when a race ended under a safety car in 2021, I'll agree with you, I don't remember it.
Abu Dhabi was the only occassion that there was a risk of this happeneing, and as said, with the teams, F1 and the FIA endearing to try and finish all races under green flag conditions, this was the special set of circumstances, not some sort of effort by Masi to create drama.
The sport was damaged because they have been constantly talking about doing everything they can to ensure races finish under green flag condtions, without putting clear rules and regulations in place (like issuing red flags instead of a safety car when a certain number of laps remain, or extra laps etc.) to allow such scenarios to take place.
They have still not decided what to do to ensure this happened, but its what they want, and what Masi tried to deliver
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 days ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Belgian GP which was a complete washout, I don't remember a single race that didn't end under green flag conditions in the 2021 season.
You peddle this line that Masi applied the correct rule every single time that year and didn't adapt anything until the last race of the season.
If you can tell me when a race ended under a safety car in 2021, I'll agree with you, I don't remember it.
Abu Dhabi was the only occassion that there was a risk of this happeneing, and as said, with the teams, F1 and the FIA endearing to try and finish all races under green flag conditions, this was the special set of circumstances, not some sort of effort by Masi to create drama.
The sport was damaged because they have been constantly talking about doing everything they can to ensure races finish under green flag condtions, without putting clear rules and regulations in place (like issuing red flags instead of a safety car when a certain number of laps remain, or extra laps etc.) to allow such scenarios to take place.
They have still not decided what to do to ensure this happened, but its what they want, and what Masi tried to deliver
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No the problem lay with his decision to let some of the cars past.
When the accident happened we had to wait til it was clear, the track was clear etc. by the time this all hapenned there was two laps left ...
Masi didnt wanna end the race under safety car and yes the teams had said they would rather avoid that ... the sponsors and tv audience prefer that also.
Masi had two options by the rule book here. He could say all the cars unlap themselves as per the rules but by the time that happens the last lap would be by then and no restart would be possible. The other option is to let no cars through and put the blue flags out instantly which is 100% what should have happened
. Both scenarios result in a quiet uneventful end to the race but one that was done as per the rules.
There was no rule that said pick and choose what drivers can unlap themselves and then restart with 1 lap to go.
Masi created a rule in order to manipulate a last lap showdown and drama.
Tell me of another occasion when cars have not been allowed to unlap themselves
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 9 hours, 42 minutes ago
Tell me of another occasion when cars have not been allowed to unlap themselves
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why does there need to be an occasion. the rules are there in black in white.
Either you let all the cars unlap themselves or you dont. Thats the two options already agreed upon for the season.
No rule exists where the race director picks and chooses what cars can unlap themselves.
Normally all cars are allowed to unlap themselves cos it makes the the grid is in more organised manner. meaning less chance of restart or mistakes that can be caused by blue flags.
the rules where there in black and white and Masi had enforced them in this sense correctly all season then made it his own version in the last race in the last laps
I agree that Masi came up with his own interpretation.
The point I am making is that if he hadn't let the cars unlap themselves, that would have been seen as prejudice against Verstappen and Red Bull, as it is only on very rare occasions that the cars are not allowed to unlap themselves.
It would have been very peculiar for the race to have been restarted, with the lapped cars still intertwined amongst the front runners, when else has that happened, and when has it happened in such a pivotal race.
Masi tried to do the right thing...thats all he did.
This notion that he just made things up, as I have said before, is all a result of the FIA, of F1 and the teams wanting this that and the next thing, with no proper rules and regulations in place to allow people like the race director to meet those demands.
The rules need to be changed...Masi was a victim of trying to please everyone within the rules that he had to work with.
For me, the mistake Masi made, was not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves sooner. If he had done that, the race could have been restarted, on the final lap, and all protocols could have been met. Becasue he made that call too late, thats why he made up the interpretation that he did.
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 14 hours, 28 minutes ago
I agree that Masi came up with his own interpretation.
The point I am making is that if he hadn't let the cars unlap themselves, that would have been seen as prejudice against Verstappen and Red Bull, as it is only on very rare occasions that the cars are not allowed to unlap themselves.
It would have been very peculiar for the race to have been restarted, with the lapped cars still intertwined amongst the front runners, when else has that happened, and when has it happened in such a pivotal race.
Masi tried to do the right thing...thats all he did.
This notion that he just made things up, as I have said before, is all a result of the FIA, of F1 and the teams wanting this that and the next thing, with no proper rules and regulations in place to allow people like the race director to meet those demands.
The rules need to be changed...Masi was a victim of trying to please everyone within the rules that he had to work with.
For me, the mistake Masi made, was not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves sooner. If he had done that, the race could have been restarted, on the final lap, and all protocols could have been met. Becasue he made that call too late, thats why he made up the interpretation that he did.
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so you agree that Masi made up a version of a rule at the end of the last race of the season.
then you say "This notion that he just made things up,"
the rules were already in place, clear and in black and white.... there is two options available (whether you agree with them or not is a different question altogether).
Just because it is peculiar for them to finish that way doesnt mean it shouldnt be done. you follow the rules, they are in black and white there is no interpretation of them. you either let ALL the cars through or you dont let any through.
The rules have been re-written slightly to reinforce the fact that ALL cars must pass if given the instruction to do so.
Masi couldnt let the cars unlap themselves until he had been given the all clear that the other car had been removed safely from the circuit. again its black and white he needs to wait for the all clear its not a decision he makes.
you keep saying he made up his interpretation so I dont know what your arguing.. you are literally admitting he made up a rule when he shouldnt have. the rule had already been created and he didnt not enforce them correctly and he was sacked due to it.
He wanted a competitive end of the race and end of season, so changed the rules to ensure thats what happened.
LIke I said there was two options available to Masi by the time the accident had been cleared. He could either allow all the cars to unlap themselves which would mean the safety car couldnt come in with 1 lap to go and the race ends under saftey car which the team all agreed is not their preference. The other option was start the race as they were.
that was the rules,,, he chooses one or the other. You admit that he choose not to follow either rule and instead made up his own. This is not on , it was not agreed with and it ruined the sport. Teams base the decisions they make based on the written rules.
Go back and listen to all the radio messages of the drivers as it was happening.... all the neutrals opinions are there to see for all.
The point I'm arguing is that Masi didn't just do this off his own back......he was trying to appease the teams, the FIA and F1 and give them all what they wanted
Even though what he did handed a huge advantage to Verstappen, if there was time left in the race to let the unlapped cars pass, and have Verstappen right behind Hamilton when the race resumed, it's an advantage he would have had anyway
No matter what happened, Hamilton could not have came into the pits as he would have lost track position, so the only thing that was going to win the race for Hamilton, was the clock running out and the safety car staying out until the last lap, or the lapped cars staying in place and holding Verstappen up.....which would not be seen as racing
As I have said repeatedly, the FIA, F1, the teams...all of them, including Mercedes, were all in agreement that races should conclude under green flag conditions, so that racing decided who won, not safety cars, not rules and regulations that put obstacles in front of cars racing for position, or anything like that.
So yes, Masi made up an interpretation of the rules to facilitate that, the rules did state that the race director had overall control of when the safety car came in etc .....but he would not have done any of that if the FIA, F1, the teams....if all of them hadn't tried to have their cake and eat it with no proper rules and regulations in place to facilitate this "racing should decide things" idea that they all wanted
As also said...they still haven't resolved this, so the next time a race ends under a safety car period, they will all be bloody moaning about it again
My opinion is neutral...Masi was put under immense pressure, tried to make a decision he though was right and would have delivered what was being asked for....and he was hung out to dry for it
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 3 minutes ago
The point I'm arguing is that Masi didn't just do this off his own back......he was trying to appease the teams, the FIA and F1 and give them all what they wanted
Even though what he did handed a huge advantage to Verstappen, if there was time left in the race to let the unlapped cars pass, and have Verstappen right behind Hamilton when the race resumed, it's an advantage he would have had anyway
No matter what happened, Hamilton could not have came into the pits as he would have lost track position, so the only thing that was going to win the race for Hamilton, was the clock running out and the safety car staying out until the last lap, or the lapped cars staying in place and holding Verstappen up.....which would not be seen as racing
As I have said repeatedly, the FIA, F1, the teams...all of them, including Mercedes, were all in agreement that races should conclude under green flag conditions, so that racing decided who won, not safety cars, not rules and regulations that put obstacles in front of cars racing for position, or anything like that.
So yes, Masi made up an interpretation of the rules to facilitate that, the rules did state that the race director had overall control of when the safety car came in etc .....but he would not have done any of that if the FIA, F1, the teams....if all of them hadn't tried to have their cake and eat it with no proper rules and regulations in place to facilitate this "racing should decide things" idea that they all wanted
As also said...they still haven't resolved this, so the next time a race ends under a safety car period, they will all be bloody moaning about it again
My opinion is neutral...Masi was put under immense pressure, tried to make a decision he though was right and would have delivered what was being asked for....and he was hung out to dry for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree I dont think he was trying to appease the teams if that was the case he would just go by the black and white and say that is appeasing the teams as they agreed at the beginning of the season that these are the rules in which to follow and the teams will base their decision on track on the back of these rules.
mate the race restarting with the other drivers in front of him IS racing ... getting past whoever you need to get passed IS RACING. moving they guys out the way to artificially create a drama showing is NOT RACING.
Again you have said repeatedly that the teams agreed to finish the race under green flags yes they did and they still could have if no cars were allowed to pass. They also agreed that there is 2 rules in place for safety cars the did not agree to allow Masi to decide to make up a rule under safety cars.
they HAVE resolved it the rules wording was changed slightly to make sure it doesnt happen again. It now specifically says that all cars need to pass the safety car not some cars, it MUST be all cars or NO cars regardless is its the last lap or first lap. The FIA came out and stated this before the season started.
they can moan all they want the narrative will be the same .... thats the rules you all agreed to at the beginning of the season.
Masi was under tremendous pressure and showed he is not capable to doing the job under such, we know this cos he was sacked for failing to do his job properly.
you just dont seem to understand that there was rules in place for this sort of thing, the teams had already agreed to it.
Hence why all of the drivers were confused... first of all confused at no clear instruction being given at first then a new rule placed upon them during the race with 2 laps to go.
Being a neutral has nothing to do with it... I aint I actually favour Max mainly cos I have raced with quite a few times on I racing , I have actually spoken to him and Lando Norris and raced against a few of them.
That doesnt hide the fact that what was done was wrong. You cannot create a rule half way though a season without the teams prior knowledge let alone during a race.
Masi's job was to enforce the AGREED upon rules it was not his job to create a rule in a cpl of minutes and apply it with 2 laps to go.
So what rules were in place when Masi was basically offerred a deal to Red Bull with regards where Verstappen was placed on the grid for a restart in Saudi Arabia?
Did Masi not come up with his own interpretation then? Was he hung out to dry for that?
The issue has not been fixed....if the FIA, F1 and the teams want races to be finished under green flag conditions
If the safety car needs to stay out because a hazard hasn't been cleared with only a lap or two remaining...the same issue will arise.
If they really want green flag conditions, true green flag conditions to be in place for the end of every races they either need to allow for extra laps (which introduces fuelling issues)....or make it mandatory that red flags are issues instead of safety cars when there are say 5 laps remaining or something
I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat, and it's all because there has been a push for something that the rules simply didn't accommodate, and still dont
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 27 seconds ago
So what rules were in place when Masi was basically offerred a deal to Red Bull with regards where Verstappen was placed on the grid for a restart in Saudi Arabia?
Did Masi not come up with his own interpretation then? Was he hung out to dry for that?
The issue has not been fixed....if the FIA, F1 and the teams want races to be finished under green flag conditions
If the safety car needs to stay out because a hazard hasn't been cleared with only a lap or two remaining...the same issue will arise.
If they really want green flag conditions, true green flag conditions to be in place for the end of every races they either need to allow for extra laps (which introduces fuelling issues)....or make it mandatory that red flags are issues instead of safety cars when there are say 5 laps remaining or something
I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat, and it's all because there has been a push for something that the rules simply didn't accommodate, and still dont
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there was no set rule to follow for that situation..... there was a rule in place for the scenario in the last laps in Abu Dhabi.
The teams and fans want races to end under green flags yes as long as its safe and fair to do so, but they also want the races to be as fair as possible. safety trumps any "want" and if the safety car needs to kept out then thats what happens.
The reaction after Abu Dhabi shows you the feelings of the fans and it was a real bad taste (unless you were a max fan) but even so as a Max fan i think it leaves a black mark on his accomplishment.
we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags.
Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse .... thats then specifically catering towards a team or individual and is far more serious than doing it for the drama.... every race director get harrassed by the team principles and drivers... they will look for any advatange they can get. The race director needs to be able to make decisions ignoring all outside influences and apply the rules agreed upon.
He 100% percent deserved to lose his job and it 100% ruined the end of the season and left a real bitter taste. Netflix fricking loved it though !!
Wasnt gutted as it meant Max was winner and I was chuffed to bits for him, he will now go on to replace Hamilton I feel, he will take another step forward on the back of winning this and become a more complete driver.
"Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse"
Didn't say that at all
"we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags."
If the FIA, F1 and the teams were willing to accept that, Masi wouldn't have done what he did...that's the point
He didn't do it for the drama, he didn't do it to benefit one team or spite another...he done it because it's what his bosses, the sport and the teams taking part had all been asking him to try and do if it was at all possible.
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse"
Didn't say that at all
"we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags."
If the FIA, F1 and the teams were willing to accept that, Masi wouldn't have done what he did...that's the point
He didn't do it for the drama, he didn't do it to benefit one team or spite another...he done it because it's what his bosses, the sport and the teams taking part had all been asking him to try and do if it was at all possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat"
what did you mean by saying his hand was forced that sounds to me like his decision was affected by teams demands... and the only team that benefitted from what he did was red bull ... they were the only team demanding the cars get out the way.
there is no rule saying that races need to end under green flag ... it was a preference ... it was an informal agreement that when they can they end under green flags... the rules say certain fuel loads need to be used, certain laps need to be completed, certain time the race can last .... all these mean that there is a possibility the race might need to end under red flags.
this race should have ended with none of the cars being allowed to pass.
the rule is green flag if its safe, the rule was all cars pass the leaf car or no cars pass the lead car.
in this scenario the rules are there quite clear.... if the accident gets cleared up in time, allow the all cars to pass and if there is time once this has been done green flags. if not end the race under red flags cos you have no choice... the ending under green flags is a preference and shouldnt overule any set rules.
You seem to think that there is some rule for ending under green flags, there is not its just a preference.
I think he did it for the drama, you dont.
He didnt do his job properly and it messed up the championship and cost him jobs, thats the facts.
Not one single member of the FIA advised or told him to do anything that is pure fabrication no idea where you came up with that, the sport? you mean the fans ... no the backlash says its not what they wanted, its not his job to be persuaded by the wishes of the teams or indeed even the FIA. His job was to enforce the agreed upon rules. If the head of FIA came down and told him to do it he should have said no, my job is to enforce the rules not to do what you tell me.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 6 days, 20 hours ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find it hard to believe it was a mistake ... how can you apply the rule correctly all season then in the most important part of the season you dont?
I firmly believe he did it for the drama of the sport to create headlines and get viewers talking and tuning in. not any venedetta against Lewis or Merc.
He had applied the correct rule every single time that year under safety car he didnt adapt anything. At no point in the season had he changed the rule under safety car ... not once. He followed the same procedure every single time, the way it has always been.
However with 4 laps to go in the last race he decided to make up his own rule to avoid a boring end to the season at the expense of sporting integrity IMO.
He was not fit for purpose, it wasnt a difficult call to make, it was no different to the same call he had made plenty of times in his position. He wanted drama. The sports image was damaged as a result of it.
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I find this to be a total bollox conclusion bordering conspiracy theory. Rules were applied all over the place last season. Massi was also put under tremendous pressure from both RB and Merc to 'do the right thing' whatever it was. Toto was begging Massi not to put out the SC because he knew they would be facked then.
it MUST be all cars or NO cars
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The word "all" is not in the rules it is "any"
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I find this to be a total bollox conclusion bordering conspiracy theory. Rules were applied all over the place last season. Massi was also put under tremendous pressure from both RB and Merc to 'do the right thing' whatever it was. Toto was begging Massi not to put out the SC because he knew they would be facked then.
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feel free to prove me wrong then assuming you must have evidence to dismiss what I say.
Every race director gets put under massive pressure.... were talking about jobs on the line, hundreds of millions of pounds, reputations. Every race director in every major motorsport gets put under pressure. Its his job to make the right calls under pressure he didnt do it.
The right thing was to apply the rules correctly to which he didnt. he didnt apply any agreed rule and instead created his own.
You dont think Charlie Whiting had all the same stuff throughout his years. Well not so much at the end of his career cos he had spent so many years applying the rules properly.
End of the day rules were there in black and white to be followed and they were not. Is that true or false?
comment by Ladmin 3 (U1250)
posted 35 seconds ago
it MUST be all cars or NO cars
-----------------------
The word "all" is not in the rules it is "any"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no the rule was changed to ALL cars this year for that very reason .... the terminology is the route that was taken in his appeal process and was dismissed.
they knew what "any" car meant, it was meant as any car that is lapped now unlaps themselves as was agreed upon prior to the season and had been applied every time a safety car had been deployed that season.
This should be another easy race for Red Bull.
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Yes, so it wasnt last year, which is what you were discussing
comment by Ladmin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
This should be another easy race for Red Bull.
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Yes, so it wasnt last year, which is what you were discussing
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so are you saying that you read the rule "any car that is lapped can unlap themselves" last year to mean Masi gets to pick and choose what cars to let through?
I bet you do.
Why did they have to reword the rule to make sure it couldnt be exploited? Why is Masi unemployed, why did Masi lose his appeal? Why did the vast majority of drivers and teams disagree and seemed confused by the instructions?
ahh right cos you dont care cos it helped Max.
I love Max he is a beast but I prefer fairness over that. The radio messages from the other drivers tells you everything you need to know.
the rules wording and terminology were changed not the rule itself. Are you too much a moron to understand this ?
Why the name calling when i just engage in a discussion? Someone disagrees, you call them a moron, you've lost the argument.
Sign in if you want to comment
good riddance-leaves a nastry taste
Page 1 of 2
posted on 13/7/22
The FIA admitting that Masi handed the title to Max wrongly with his application of the rules is good to hear as a fan I suppose.
Still adds a black mark over Max's win which I think is a bit unfair hopefully he wins more so that a tainted title is not the focus of his achievements.
Masi is a absolute fool who applied his own rules for either the benefit of drama or driver preference at the expense of sporting integrity.
posted on 14/7/22
Masi made a mistake....but I don't know how many times I've read articles like this and opinions basically nailing Masi to the wall.....without a single thing being said with regards to the teams actively working with the race director to try and ensure, that if it is at all possible, races should be completed under green flag racing conditions, so that important races such as this one, arent decided in a processional nature under a safety car.
Before Abu Dhabi, it was said time and time and time again that this is what everyone wanted....by everyone, including Toto Wolff.
What Masi did, although wrong, was precisely what the teams had been asking for, do everything he could to get the race to finish under green flag conditions, so that such an important race was decided on track, and not behind a safety car.
Really grates on me that this is hardly ever spoken about.
Teams and drivers whinge and moan about bloody everything, and so much pressure was put on Masi in the 2021 season it was ridiculous. Annoys me that this regularly doesn't get picked up on at all.
Go back to the Saudi GP where Masi was basically cutting deals with the teams after a red flag to say what their drivers positions would be for the restart etc....where is that within the rules??.....and who complained about the rulebook not being strictly adhered to in those situations??
Teams constantly want their cake and to eat it...Masi took it too far yes, but the seeds for this were sown by the teams themselves, including Wolff, which is why it grates to see him talk about Masi in the manner he does.
The guy bent over backwards at times to help the teams and give them what they wanted, and Wolff was happy with that until it bit him on the erse
posted on 14/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 9 minutes ago
Masi made a mistake....but I don't know how many times I've read articles like this and opinions basically nailing Masi to the wall.....without a single thing being said with regards to the teams actively working with the race director to try and ensure, that if it is at all possible, races should be completed under green flag racing conditions, so that important races such as this one, arent decided in a processional nature under a safety car.
Before Abu Dhabi, it was said time and time and time again that this is what everyone wanted....by everyone, including Toto Wolff.
What Masi did, although wrong, was precisely what the teams had been asking for, do everything he could to get the race to finish under green flag conditions, so that such an important race was decided on track, and not behind a safety car.
Really grates on me that this is hardly ever spoken about.
Teams and drivers whinge and moan about bloody everything, and so much pressure was put on Masi in the 2021 season it was ridiculous. Annoys me that this regularly doesn't get picked up on at all.
Go back to the Saudi GP where Masi was basically cutting deals with the teams after a red flag to say what their drivers positions would be for the restart etc....where is that within the rules??.....and who complained about the rulebook not being strictly adhered to in those situations??
Teams constantly want their cake and to eat it...Masi took it too far yes, but the seeds for this were sown by the teams themselves, including Wolff, which is why it grates to see him talk about Masi in the manner he does.
The guy bent over backwards at times to help the teams and give them what they wanted, and Wolff was happy with that until it bit him on the erse
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how do you know it was a mistake though?
even it was , its far too costly a mistake to be allowed to make.
It doesnt matter what the teams want his job was apply the rules to ensure a fair race.
what he did was come up with his own rules to manipulate the outcome
the rules were there, quite clear, they had been established since the beginning of the season, he had followed them correctly all season and for whatever reason be that corrupt or mistake he didnt follow them.
this resulted in prob the biggest farce in modern day motorsport. an absolute joke that left a bad taste in many many fans and (in terms of America certainly) and with a very large amount of casual fans made them walk away from watching it
posted on 15/7/22
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
posted on 15/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
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i find it hard to believe it was a mistake ... how can you apply the rule correctly all season then in the most important part of the season you dont?
I firmly believe he did it for the drama of the sport to create headlines and get viewers talking and tuning in. not any venedetta against Lewis or Merc.
He had applied the correct rule every single time that year under safety car he didnt adapt anything. At no point in the season had he changed the rule under safety car ... not once. He followed the same procedure every single time, the way it has always been.
However with 4 laps to go in the last race he decided to make up his own rule to avoid a boring end to the season at the expense of sporting integrity IMO.
He was not fit for purpose, it wasnt a difficult call to make, it was no different to the same call he had made plenty of times in his position. He wanted drama. The sports image was damaged as a result of it.
posted on 16/7/22
Correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Belgian GP which was a complete washout, I don't remember a single race that didn't end under green flag conditions in the 2021 season.
You peddle this line that Masi applied the correct rule every single time that year and didn't adapt anything until the last race of the season.
If you can tell me when a race ended under a safety car in 2021, I'll agree with you, I don't remember it.
Abu Dhabi was the only occassion that there was a risk of this happeneing, and as said, with the teams, F1 and the FIA endearing to try and finish all races under green flag conditions, this was the special set of circumstances, not some sort of effort by Masi to create drama.
The sport was damaged because they have been constantly talking about doing everything they can to ensure races finish under green flag condtions, without putting clear rules and regulations in place (like issuing red flags instead of a safety car when a certain number of laps remain, or extra laps etc.) to allow such scenarios to take place.
They have still not decided what to do to ensure this happened, but its what they want, and what Masi tried to deliver
posted on 18/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 days ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but other than the Belgian GP which was a complete washout, I don't remember a single race that didn't end under green flag conditions in the 2021 season.
You peddle this line that Masi applied the correct rule every single time that year and didn't adapt anything until the last race of the season.
If you can tell me when a race ended under a safety car in 2021, I'll agree with you, I don't remember it.
Abu Dhabi was the only occassion that there was a risk of this happeneing, and as said, with the teams, F1 and the FIA endearing to try and finish all races under green flag conditions, this was the special set of circumstances, not some sort of effort by Masi to create drama.
The sport was damaged because they have been constantly talking about doing everything they can to ensure races finish under green flag condtions, without putting clear rules and regulations in place (like issuing red flags instead of a safety car when a certain number of laps remain, or extra laps etc.) to allow such scenarios to take place.
They have still not decided what to do to ensure this happened, but its what they want, and what Masi tried to deliver
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No the problem lay with his decision to let some of the cars past.
When the accident happened we had to wait til it was clear, the track was clear etc. by the time this all hapenned there was two laps left ...
Masi didnt wanna end the race under safety car and yes the teams had said they would rather avoid that ... the sponsors and tv audience prefer that also.
Masi had two options by the rule book here. He could say all the cars unlap themselves as per the rules but by the time that happens the last lap would be by then and no restart would be possible. The other option is to let no cars through and put the blue flags out instantly which is 100% what should have happened
. Both scenarios result in a quiet uneventful end to the race but one that was done as per the rules.
There was no rule that said pick and choose what drivers can unlap themselves and then restart with 1 lap to go.
Masi created a rule in order to manipulate a last lap showdown and drama.
posted on 18/7/22
Tell me of another occasion when cars have not been allowed to unlap themselves
posted on 19/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 9 hours, 42 minutes ago
Tell me of another occasion when cars have not been allowed to unlap themselves
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why does there need to be an occasion. the rules are there in black in white.
Either you let all the cars unlap themselves or you dont. Thats the two options already agreed upon for the season.
No rule exists where the race director picks and chooses what cars can unlap themselves.
Normally all cars are allowed to unlap themselves cos it makes the the grid is in more organised manner. meaning less chance of restart or mistakes that can be caused by blue flags.
the rules where there in black and white and Masi had enforced them in this sense correctly all season then made it his own version in the last race in the last laps
posted on 20/7/22
I agree that Masi came up with his own interpretation.
The point I am making is that if he hadn't let the cars unlap themselves, that would have been seen as prejudice against Verstappen and Red Bull, as it is only on very rare occasions that the cars are not allowed to unlap themselves.
It would have been very peculiar for the race to have been restarted, with the lapped cars still intertwined amongst the front runners, when else has that happened, and when has it happened in such a pivotal race.
Masi tried to do the right thing...thats all he did.
This notion that he just made things up, as I have said before, is all a result of the FIA, of F1 and the teams wanting this that and the next thing, with no proper rules and regulations in place to allow people like the race director to meet those demands.
The rules need to be changed...Masi was a victim of trying to please everyone within the rules that he had to work with.
For me, the mistake Masi made, was not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves sooner. If he had done that, the race could have been restarted, on the final lap, and all protocols could have been met. Becasue he made that call too late, thats why he made up the interpretation that he did.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 14 hours, 28 minutes ago
I agree that Masi came up with his own interpretation.
The point I am making is that if he hadn't let the cars unlap themselves, that would have been seen as prejudice against Verstappen and Red Bull, as it is only on very rare occasions that the cars are not allowed to unlap themselves.
It would have been very peculiar for the race to have been restarted, with the lapped cars still intertwined amongst the front runners, when else has that happened, and when has it happened in such a pivotal race.
Masi tried to do the right thing...thats all he did.
This notion that he just made things up, as I have said before, is all a result of the FIA, of F1 and the teams wanting this that and the next thing, with no proper rules and regulations in place to allow people like the race director to meet those demands.
The rules need to be changed...Masi was a victim of trying to please everyone within the rules that he had to work with.
For me, the mistake Masi made, was not allowing the lapped cars to unlap themselves sooner. If he had done that, the race could have been restarted, on the final lap, and all protocols could have been met. Becasue he made that call too late, thats why he made up the interpretation that he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so you agree that Masi made up a version of a rule at the end of the last race of the season.
then you say "This notion that he just made things up,"
the rules were already in place, clear and in black and white.... there is two options available (whether you agree with them or not is a different question altogether).
Just because it is peculiar for them to finish that way doesnt mean it shouldnt be done. you follow the rules, they are in black and white there is no interpretation of them. you either let ALL the cars through or you dont let any through.
The rules have been re-written slightly to reinforce the fact that ALL cars must pass if given the instruction to do so.
Masi couldnt let the cars unlap themselves until he had been given the all clear that the other car had been removed safely from the circuit. again its black and white he needs to wait for the all clear its not a decision he makes.
you keep saying he made up his interpretation so I dont know what your arguing.. you are literally admitting he made up a rule when he shouldnt have. the rule had already been created and he didnt not enforce them correctly and he was sacked due to it.
He wanted a competitive end of the race and end of season, so changed the rules to ensure thats what happened.
LIke I said there was two options available to Masi by the time the accident had been cleared. He could either allow all the cars to unlap themselves which would mean the safety car couldnt come in with 1 lap to go and the race ends under saftey car which the team all agreed is not their preference. The other option was start the race as they were.
that was the rules,,, he chooses one or the other. You admit that he choose not to follow either rule and instead made up his own. This is not on , it was not agreed with and it ruined the sport. Teams base the decisions they make based on the written rules.
Go back and listen to all the radio messages of the drivers as it was happening.... all the neutrals opinions are there to see for all.
posted on 21/7/22
The point I'm arguing is that Masi didn't just do this off his own back......he was trying to appease the teams, the FIA and F1 and give them all what they wanted
Even though what he did handed a huge advantage to Verstappen, if there was time left in the race to let the unlapped cars pass, and have Verstappen right behind Hamilton when the race resumed, it's an advantage he would have had anyway
No matter what happened, Hamilton could not have came into the pits as he would have lost track position, so the only thing that was going to win the race for Hamilton, was the clock running out and the safety car staying out until the last lap, or the lapped cars staying in place and holding Verstappen up.....which would not be seen as racing
As I have said repeatedly, the FIA, F1, the teams...all of them, including Mercedes, were all in agreement that races should conclude under green flag conditions, so that racing decided who won, not safety cars, not rules and regulations that put obstacles in front of cars racing for position, or anything like that.
So yes, Masi made up an interpretation of the rules to facilitate that, the rules did state that the race director had overall control of when the safety car came in etc .....but he would not have done any of that if the FIA, F1, the teams....if all of them hadn't tried to have their cake and eat it with no proper rules and regulations in place to facilitate this "racing should decide things" idea that they all wanted
As also said...they still haven't resolved this, so the next time a race ends under a safety car period, they will all be bloody moaning about it again
My opinion is neutral...Masi was put under immense pressure, tried to make a decision he though was right and would have delivered what was being asked for....and he was hung out to dry for it
posted on 21/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 3 minutes ago
The point I'm arguing is that Masi didn't just do this off his own back......he was trying to appease the teams, the FIA and F1 and give them all what they wanted
Even though what he did handed a huge advantage to Verstappen, if there was time left in the race to let the unlapped cars pass, and have Verstappen right behind Hamilton when the race resumed, it's an advantage he would have had anyway
No matter what happened, Hamilton could not have came into the pits as he would have lost track position, so the only thing that was going to win the race for Hamilton, was the clock running out and the safety car staying out until the last lap, or the lapped cars staying in place and holding Verstappen up.....which would not be seen as racing
As I have said repeatedly, the FIA, F1, the teams...all of them, including Mercedes, were all in agreement that races should conclude under green flag conditions, so that racing decided who won, not safety cars, not rules and regulations that put obstacles in front of cars racing for position, or anything like that.
So yes, Masi made up an interpretation of the rules to facilitate that, the rules did state that the race director had overall control of when the safety car came in etc .....but he would not have done any of that if the FIA, F1, the teams....if all of them hadn't tried to have their cake and eat it with no proper rules and regulations in place to facilitate this "racing should decide things" idea that they all wanted
As also said...they still haven't resolved this, so the next time a race ends under a safety car period, they will all be bloody moaning about it again
My opinion is neutral...Masi was put under immense pressure, tried to make a decision he though was right and would have delivered what was being asked for....and he was hung out to dry for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree I dont think he was trying to appease the teams if that was the case he would just go by the black and white and say that is appeasing the teams as they agreed at the beginning of the season that these are the rules in which to follow and the teams will base their decision on track on the back of these rules.
mate the race restarting with the other drivers in front of him IS racing ... getting past whoever you need to get passed IS RACING. moving they guys out the way to artificially create a drama showing is NOT RACING.
Again you have said repeatedly that the teams agreed to finish the race under green flags yes they did and they still could have if no cars were allowed to pass. They also agreed that there is 2 rules in place for safety cars the did not agree to allow Masi to decide to make up a rule under safety cars.
they HAVE resolved it the rules wording was changed slightly to make sure it doesnt happen again. It now specifically says that all cars need to pass the safety car not some cars, it MUST be all cars or NO cars regardless is its the last lap or first lap. The FIA came out and stated this before the season started.
they can moan all they want the narrative will be the same .... thats the rules you all agreed to at the beginning of the season.
Masi was under tremendous pressure and showed he is not capable to doing the job under such, we know this cos he was sacked for failing to do his job properly.
you just dont seem to understand that there was rules in place for this sort of thing, the teams had already agreed to it.
Hence why all of the drivers were confused... first of all confused at no clear instruction being given at first then a new rule placed upon them during the race with 2 laps to go.
Being a neutral has nothing to do with it... I aint I actually favour Max mainly cos I have raced with quite a few times on I racing , I have actually spoken to him and Lando Norris and raced against a few of them.
That doesnt hide the fact that what was done was wrong. You cannot create a rule half way though a season without the teams prior knowledge let alone during a race.
Masi's job was to enforce the AGREED upon rules it was not his job to create a rule in a cpl of minutes and apply it with 2 laps to go.
posted on 21/7/22
So what rules were in place when Masi was basically offerred a deal to Red Bull with regards where Verstappen was placed on the grid for a restart in Saudi Arabia?
Did Masi not come up with his own interpretation then? Was he hung out to dry for that?
The issue has not been fixed....if the FIA, F1 and the teams want races to be finished under green flag conditions
If the safety car needs to stay out because a hazard hasn't been cleared with only a lap or two remaining...the same issue will arise.
If they really want green flag conditions, true green flag conditions to be in place for the end of every races they either need to allow for extra laps (which introduces fuelling issues)....or make it mandatory that red flags are issues instead of safety cars when there are say 5 laps remaining or something
I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat, and it's all because there has been a push for something that the rules simply didn't accommodate, and still dont
posted on 21/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 27 seconds ago
So what rules were in place when Masi was basically offerred a deal to Red Bull with regards where Verstappen was placed on the grid for a restart in Saudi Arabia?
Did Masi not come up with his own interpretation then? Was he hung out to dry for that?
The issue has not been fixed....if the FIA, F1 and the teams want races to be finished under green flag conditions
If the safety car needs to stay out because a hazard hasn't been cleared with only a lap or two remaining...the same issue will arise.
If they really want green flag conditions, true green flag conditions to be in place for the end of every races they either need to allow for extra laps (which introduces fuelling issues)....or make it mandatory that red flags are issues instead of safety cars when there are say 5 laps remaining or something
I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat, and it's all because there has been a push for something that the rules simply didn't accommodate, and still dont
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there was no set rule to follow for that situation..... there was a rule in place for the scenario in the last laps in Abu Dhabi.
The teams and fans want races to end under green flags yes as long as its safe and fair to do so, but they also want the races to be as fair as possible. safety trumps any "want" and if the safety car needs to kept out then thats what happens.
The reaction after Abu Dhabi shows you the feelings of the fans and it was a real bad taste (unless you were a max fan) but even so as a Max fan i think it leaves a black mark on his accomplishment.
we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags.
Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse .... thats then specifically catering towards a team or individual and is far more serious than doing it for the drama.... every race director get harrassed by the team principles and drivers... they will look for any advatange they can get. The race director needs to be able to make decisions ignoring all outside influences and apply the rules agreed upon.
He 100% percent deserved to lose his job and it 100% ruined the end of the season and left a real bitter taste. Netflix fricking loved it though !!
Wasnt gutted as it meant Max was winner and I was chuffed to bits for him, he will now go on to replace Hamilton I feel, he will take another step forward on the back of winning this and become a more complete driver.
posted on 21/7/22
"Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse"
Didn't say that at all
"we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags."
If the FIA, F1 and the teams were willing to accept that, Masi wouldn't have done what he did...that's the point
He didn't do it for the drama, he didn't do it to benefit one team or spite another...he done it because it's what his bosses, the sport and the teams taking part had all been asking him to try and do if it was at all possible.
posted on 21/7/22
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Your saying Masi's hand was forced or persuaded by what Red Bull were saying ??? thats even worse"
Didn't say that at all
"we just need to accept that once every 30/40/50 races or whatever it is that 1 race might not end under green flags."
If the FIA, F1 and the teams were willing to accept that, Masi wouldn't have done what he did...that's the point
He didn't do it for the drama, he didn't do it to benefit one team or spite another...he done it because it's what his bosses, the sport and the teams taking part had all been asking him to try and do if it was at all possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm am not disagreeing that what Masi did was wrong...but for me his hand was forced somewhat"
what did you mean by saying his hand was forced that sounds to me like his decision was affected by teams demands... and the only team that benefitted from what he did was red bull ... they were the only team demanding the cars get out the way.
there is no rule saying that races need to end under green flag ... it was a preference ... it was an informal agreement that when they can they end under green flags... the rules say certain fuel loads need to be used, certain laps need to be completed, certain time the race can last .... all these mean that there is a possibility the race might need to end under red flags.
this race should have ended with none of the cars being allowed to pass.
the rule is green flag if its safe, the rule was all cars pass the leaf car or no cars pass the lead car.
in this scenario the rules are there quite clear.... if the accident gets cleared up in time, allow the all cars to pass and if there is time once this has been done green flags. if not end the race under red flags cos you have no choice... the ending under green flags is a preference and shouldnt overule any set rules.
You seem to think that there is some rule for ending under green flags, there is not its just a preference.
I think he did it for the drama, you dont.
He didnt do his job properly and it messed up the championship and cost him jobs, thats the facts.
Not one single member of the FIA advised or told him to do anything that is pure fabrication no idea where you came up with that, the sport? you mean the fans ... no the backlash says its not what they wanted, its not his job to be persuaded by the wishes of the teams or indeed even the FIA. His job was to enforce the agreed upon rules. If the head of FIA came down and told him to do it he should have said no, my job is to enforce the rules not to do what you tell me.
posted on 22/7/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 6 days, 20 hours ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 2 minutes ago
Pretty obvious that it was a mistkae...but it was a mistake made with good intentions.
Dnt start giving it this bit that he did it intentionally to spite Mercedes or Hamilton...was never the case, and wont listen to that argument.
He tried to end the season under racing conditions, using, what he thought, was some flexibility in the rules at his disposal.
Can say it doesn't matter what the teams want....the FIA are constantly bending over backwards to give the teams what they want.
If the rule are the rules, they should be adhered to at all times....that wasnt happening, teams were asking for the rules to be interpreted in a number of ways throughout the last few seasons, so for me, what happened in Abu Dhabi was, at least in part, a consequence of that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i find it hard to believe it was a mistake ... how can you apply the rule correctly all season then in the most important part of the season you dont?
I firmly believe he did it for the drama of the sport to create headlines and get viewers talking and tuning in. not any venedetta against Lewis or Merc.
He had applied the correct rule every single time that year under safety car he didnt adapt anything. At no point in the season had he changed the rule under safety car ... not once. He followed the same procedure every single time, the way it has always been.
However with 4 laps to go in the last race he decided to make up his own rule to avoid a boring end to the season at the expense of sporting integrity IMO.
He was not fit for purpose, it wasnt a difficult call to make, it was no different to the same call he had made plenty of times in his position. He wanted drama. The sports image was damaged as a result of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I find this to be a total bollox conclusion bordering conspiracy theory. Rules were applied all over the place last season. Massi was also put under tremendous pressure from both RB and Merc to 'do the right thing' whatever it was. Toto was begging Massi not to put out the SC because he knew they would be facked then.
posted on 22/7/22
it MUST be all cars or NO cars
-----------------------
The word "all" is not in the rules it is "any"
posted on 22/7/22
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I find this to be a total bollox conclusion bordering conspiracy theory. Rules were applied all over the place last season. Massi was also put under tremendous pressure from both RB and Merc to 'do the right thing' whatever it was. Toto was begging Massi not to put out the SC because he knew they would be facked then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to prove me wrong then assuming you must have evidence to dismiss what I say.
Every race director gets put under massive pressure.... were talking about jobs on the line, hundreds of millions of pounds, reputations. Every race director in every major motorsport gets put under pressure. Its his job to make the right calls under pressure he didnt do it.
The right thing was to apply the rules correctly to which he didnt. he didnt apply any agreed rule and instead created his own.
You dont think Charlie Whiting had all the same stuff throughout his years. Well not so much at the end of his career cos he had spent so many years applying the rules properly.
End of the day rules were there in black and white to be followed and they were not. Is that true or false?
posted on 22/7/22
comment by Ladmin 3 (U1250)
posted 35 seconds ago
it MUST be all cars or NO cars
-----------------------
The word "all" is not in the rules it is "any"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no the rule was changed to ALL cars this year for that very reason .... the terminology is the route that was taken in his appeal process and was dismissed.
they knew what "any" car meant, it was meant as any car that is lapped now unlaps themselves as was agreed upon prior to the season and had been applied every time a safety car had been deployed that season.
posted on 22/7/22
This should be another easy race for Red Bull.
--------------
Yes, so it wasnt last year, which is what you were discussing
posted on 22/7/22
comment by Ladmin 3 (U1250)
posted 1 minute ago
This should be another easy race for Red Bull.
--------------
Yes, so it wasnt last year, which is what you were discussing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so are you saying that you read the rule "any car that is lapped can unlap themselves" last year to mean Masi gets to pick and choose what cars to let through?
I bet you do.
Why did they have to reword the rule to make sure it couldnt be exploited? Why is Masi unemployed, why did Masi lose his appeal? Why did the vast majority of drivers and teams disagree and seemed confused by the instructions?
ahh right cos you dont care cos it helped Max.
I love Max he is a beast but I prefer fairness over that. The radio messages from the other drivers tells you everything you need to know.
posted on 22/7/22
the rules wording and terminology were changed not the rule itself. Are you too much a moron to understand this ?
posted on 22/7/22
Why the name calling when i just engage in a discussion? Someone disagrees, you call them a moron, you've lost the argument.
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