comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
Whilst I support the right to self determination (Scottish independence) the UK's departure from the EU (in particular its regulatory regime and customs union) has pretty much kyboshed Scottish independence.
Unless an independent Scotland chose to grandfather/shadow English customs facilitation and regulatory arrangements. Without having any say (Westminster representation) on shaping them.
The more Scotland chose to diverge from English regs, the harder the border between England and Scotland would become. Which would be disastrous for Scotland. And cross border trade on both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well seeing as it is already a monumental disaster what is the big deal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine the impacts of a trade border (BCPs etc) between Scotland and England.
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Loch Ness holds an estimated 263 billion cubic feet of water. Which is more than all the water in all the lakes, rivers and reservoirs in the whole of England and Wales combined.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nessie does get thirsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nessie is a Greenland Shark
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then explain the humps.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think ... (U3126)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...Not to mention those pork markets [long pause, while smiling strangely]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We (UK) import two thirds of our cheese. That. Is. A. Disgrace!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be from EU as customs do not allow cheese from outside of the EU into the UK.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think ... (U3126)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...Not to mention those pork markets [long pause, while smiling strangely]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We (UK) import two thirds of our cheese. That. Is. A. Disgrace!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be from EU as customs do not allow cheese from outside of the EU into the UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was from a nonsensical Truss speech a while back.
https://youtu.be/y2V3PrfN98U
The Tories don’t want Scotland to be independent. Mostly because of Trident, it’s a logistical and economic ball ache to move the base to England, in the event of Scottish indy.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 47 seconds ago
The Tories don’t want Scotland to be independent. Mostly because of Trident, it’s a logistical and economic ball ache to move the base to England, in the event of Scottish indy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you saying they're incompetent then?
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it would go through Belfast to a United Ireland. Why would NI want to be part of England instead of part of Ireland and the EU? England can just whither away in its own hatred of the rest of the world, with their lack of resources, flooding and ironically drought as they drink their last sip of liquid, the dregs of an out of date Carling whilst shouting about a long dead queen and their hatred of Charles. They die knowing that everything they thought was great about England/Britain has died before them. On the 10th record July temperature in a row as the TV flickers on and off showing Germany winning the world cup, they gently close their eyes. The first few times they are able to reopen their eyes, but after 5 or 6 reopenings, the eyes stay shut. The celebrations continue on the TV, the only sound that is left in England. A now dead England. Goodbye England.
Obviously they are. But apparently it actually wouldn’t be possible to build a base in England like the one they have in Scotland because of the natural terrain. Scottish indy would be a boon for any government that wants to scrap Trident, however, that’s certainly not the Tories.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
Scotland has oil, whisky and water. England has Carling. That's the long and short of it really.
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 11 minutes ago
Scotland has oil, whisky and water. England has Carling. That's the long and short of it really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carling is owned by Molson Coors (Canadian/US) However England has London, and in particular the tower hamlets.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol!
Not in the slightest. Its just the simple reality of erecting trade borders. There's very rarely a 'winner' as both parties try to manage trade distortion to the best of their ability.
The larger party (in this case, England and the EU) are better placed to cater for damage limitation. Trade gravity.
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She want's to lift the ban on fox hunting.
I assume the reintroduction of beavers is to encourage a future trade in beaver pelts..
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol!
Not in the slightest. Its just the simple reality of erecting trade borders. There's very rarely a 'winner' as both parties try to manage trade distortion to the best of their ability.
The larger party (in this case, England and the EU) are better placed to cater for damage limitation. Trade gravity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but in this case the establishment of one trade border also implies the dismantlement of another that opens the door to the reestablishment of free trade and movement with the EU.
On the emotional level, looking back at the Brexit vote, it was England that chose to isolate itself and drag the rest of the UK out with it. It’s only normal that the rest feels antagonised, more so when the threat during IndyRef was precisely that England would see to Scotland being barred from the EU.
As you stated, Ireland’s created its own routes; no reason Scotland couldn’t do the same, and the breakaway from the country that’s always viewed it as a lesser partner you could be assured that the determination to make it work would be huge.
Itsonlyagame
That still doesn't address English/Scottish trade flows. SMEs on both sides of Hadrians wall will find it extremely difficult, (and in many cases ecomonically unviable) to continue to trade with each other. Unless Scotland adopts the same regulations and customs code(s) as England. Which kinda defeats the purpose of independence. Scotland shadowing Westminster trade policy with no Westminster representation.
Before Brexit I'd have fully supported Scottish independence, however now it would be disastrous for the Scottish populace. Even though I'm still largely sympathetic to the sentiment given Tory (Bluekip) nationalism, and distain for Scottish politicians.
Sadly I can't see any of the stark realities Scotland would need to consider forming part of any future independence debate.
Ok, well I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this one, even though I’d imagine the EU would be prepared to lend a helping hand as it does to any new member, with the added incentive of sticking a middle finger up at the UK, especially if it’s still under the Tories.
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 36 minutes ago
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scotland have a higher medal to person ratio than England, meaning that proportionally, Scotland are doing better than England.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 8 hours, 28 minutes ago
Ok, well I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this one, even though I’d imagine the EU would be prepared to lend a helping hand as it does to any new member, with the added incentive of sticking a middle finger up at the UK, especially if it’s still under the Tories.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure the EU would endeavour to accommodate Scotland’s needs as much as possible.
That being said Scotland as a member state would be treaty obliged to treat England as a third country. The impacts for example this would have on the CTA. As England (UK under Frost) declined a mutual recognition agreement with the EU on passports.
So as we have seen at Dover, French authorities are required to wet stamp every single passport rather than a cursory check/glance. Causing miles of tailbacks.
Scotland, (unless England had a drastic change of policy towards the EU) would be required to do the same. As it would be in the EU and England would not.
Much of the Indy/Brexit debates have cantered on internal borders, however very little has focused on the fact that borders have two sides and are shared.
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 36 minutes ago
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scotland have a higher medal to person ratio than England, meaning that proportionally, Scotland are doing better than England.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Burnley are the best supported football team in England?
We need more people coming to Scotland. The border could work like Poundland or Lidl. Really easy to get into but then when you realise you have no purpose for actually being there, it is very difficult to leave without joining a queue and spending some money.
Sign in if you want to comment
The UK's future (or Liverpool's flooding)
Page 2 of 3
posted on 2/8/22
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
Whilst I support the right to self determination (Scottish independence) the UK's departure from the EU (in particular its regulatory regime and customs union) has pretty much kyboshed Scottish independence.
Unless an independent Scotland chose to grandfather/shadow English customs facilitation and regulatory arrangements. Without having any say (Westminster representation) on shaping them.
The more Scotland chose to diverge from English regs, the harder the border between England and Scotland would become. Which would be disastrous for Scotland. And cross border trade on both sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well seeing as it is already a monumental disaster what is the big deal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine the impacts of a trade border (BCPs etc) between Scotland and England.
posted on 2/8/22
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
posted on 2/8/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Loch Ness holds an estimated 263 billion cubic feet of water. Which is more than all the water in all the lakes, rivers and reservoirs in the whole of England and Wales combined.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nessie does get thirsty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nessie is a Greenland Shark
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then explain the humps.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think ... (U3126)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...Not to mention those pork markets [long pause, while smiling strangely]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We (UK) import two thirds of our cheese. That. Is. A. Disgrace!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be from EU as customs do not allow cheese from outside of the EU into the UK.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think ... (U3126)
posted 58 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...Not to mention those pork markets [long pause, while smiling strangely]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We (UK) import two thirds of our cheese. That. Is. A. Disgrace!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be from EU as customs do not allow cheese from outside of the EU into the UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was from a nonsensical Truss speech a while back.
https://youtu.be/y2V3PrfN98U
posted on 2/8/22
The Tories don’t want Scotland to be independent. Mostly because of Trident, it’s a logistical and economic ball ache to move the base to England, in the event of Scottish indy.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 47 seconds ago
The Tories don’t want Scotland to be independent. Mostly because of Trident, it’s a logistical and economic ball ache to move the base to England, in the event of Scottish indy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you saying they're incompetent then?
posted on 2/8/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it would go through Belfast to a United Ireland. Why would NI want to be part of England instead of part of Ireland and the EU? England can just whither away in its own hatred of the rest of the world, with their lack of resources, flooding and ironically drought as they drink their last sip of liquid, the dregs of an out of date Carling whilst shouting about a long dead queen and their hatred of Charles. They die knowing that everything they thought was great about England/Britain has died before them. On the 10th record July temperature in a row as the TV flickers on and off showing Germany winning the world cup, they gently close their eyes. The first few times they are able to reopen their eyes, but after 5 or 6 reopenings, the eyes stay shut. The celebrations continue on the TV, the only sound that is left in England. A now dead England. Goodbye England.
posted on 2/8/22
Obviously they are. But apparently it actually wouldn’t be possible to build a base in England like the one they have in Scotland because of the natural terrain. Scottish indy would be a boon for any government that wants to scrap Trident, however, that’s certainly not the Tories.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
posted on 2/8/22
Scotland has oil, whisky and water. England has Carling. That's the long and short of it really.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 11 minutes ago
Scotland has oil, whisky and water. England has Carling. That's the long and short of it really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carling is owned by Molson Coors (Canadian/US) However England has London, and in particular the tower hamlets.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol!
Not in the slightest. Its just the simple reality of erecting trade borders. There's very rarely a 'winner' as both parties try to manage trade distortion to the best of their ability.
The larger party (in this case, England and the EU) are better placed to cater for damage limitation. Trade gravity.
posted on 2/8/22
comment by Robb We Win (U22716)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
Can we all leave Liz Truss alone. She reintroduced beavers to the wild so she’s obviously qualified to lead the UK
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She want's to lift the ban on fox hunting.
I assume the reintroduction of beavers is to encourage a future trade in beaver pelts..
posted on 2/8/22
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Who do you think you are kidding Mr.... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Ireland is capable of leading a relatively prosperous existence within the EU, why shouldn’t Scotland be too?
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If an independent Scotland chose to rejoin the EU, and England remained a third country, the same customs and regulatory checks (Dover/Calais for example) would be required between England and Scotland.
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Yes, I understand that, and I also grasp that the vast majority of Scottish exports go to the UK - but as I said, what’s to stop them developing other lines of trade with preferential partners in the EU and elsewhere? It might take time, but I don’t see why it would be unfeasible. Also, I presume not all trade with England would be killed off.
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A trade border (England/Scotland) would lead to traders being forced to create new supply channels (assuming Scotland as an EU member state) to mitigate delays and costs of border checks. Ie by passing England via Ireland or Norway for example. Just as Ireland has created a host of new routes to Europe by bypassing the traditional English 'footbridge' to the EU.
Could Scotland offset loss of trade with England by gaining greater access to EU markets. Possibly but towns and cities/SMEs in border regions north and south of the border would be impacted more than others. Especially in the food and drink industry where margins are tight (high volume, low margins etc).
In short, creating trade borders/impediments to trade when once there were none, is never going to be a gateway to a successful economy.
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Yes, and England would punish Scotland for their audacity just as the EU are doing to the UK now.
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Lol!
Not in the slightest. Its just the simple reality of erecting trade borders. There's very rarely a 'winner' as both parties try to manage trade distortion to the best of their ability.
The larger party (in this case, England and the EU) are better placed to cater for damage limitation. Trade gravity.
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Yes, but in this case the establishment of one trade border also implies the dismantlement of another that opens the door to the reestablishment of free trade and movement with the EU.
On the emotional level, looking back at the Brexit vote, it was England that chose to isolate itself and drag the rest of the UK out with it. It’s only normal that the rest feels antagonised, more so when the threat during IndyRef was precisely that England would see to Scotland being barred from the EU.
As you stated, Ireland’s created its own routes; no reason Scotland couldn’t do the same, and the breakaway from the country that’s always viewed it as a lesser partner you could be assured that the determination to make it work would be huge.
posted on 2/8/22
Itsonlyagame
That still doesn't address English/Scottish trade flows. SMEs on both sides of Hadrians wall will find it extremely difficult, (and in many cases ecomonically unviable) to continue to trade with each other. Unless Scotland adopts the same regulations and customs code(s) as England. Which kinda defeats the purpose of independence. Scotland shadowing Westminster trade policy with no Westminster representation.
Before Brexit I'd have fully supported Scottish independence, however now it would be disastrous for the Scottish populace. Even though I'm still largely sympathetic to the sentiment given Tory (Bluekip) nationalism, and distain for Scottish politicians.
Sadly I can't see any of the stark realities Scotland would need to consider forming part of any future independence debate.
posted on 3/8/22
Ok, well I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this one, even though I’d imagine the EU would be prepared to lend a helping hand as it does to any new member, with the added incentive of sticking a middle finger up at the UK, especially if it’s still under the Tories.
posted on 3/8/22
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
posted on 3/8/22
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 36 minutes ago
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
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Scotland have a higher medal to person ratio than England, meaning that proportionally, Scotland are doing better than England.
posted on 3/8/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 8 hours, 28 minutes ago
Ok, well I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this one, even though I’d imagine the EU would be prepared to lend a helping hand as it does to any new member, with the added incentive of sticking a middle finger up at the UK, especially if it’s still under the Tories.
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I'm sure the EU would endeavour to accommodate Scotland’s needs as much as possible.
That being said Scotland as a member state would be treaty obliged to treat England as a third country. The impacts for example this would have on the CTA. As England (UK under Frost) declined a mutual recognition agreement with the EU on passports.
So as we have seen at Dover, French authorities are required to wet stamp every single passport rather than a cursory check/glance. Causing miles of tailbacks.
Scotland, (unless England had a drastic change of policy towards the EU) would be required to do the same. As it would be in the EU and England would not.
Much of the Indy/Brexit debates have cantered on internal borders, however very little has focused on the fact that borders have two sides and are shared.
posted on 3/8/22
comment by Brian Easton (U1734)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 36 minutes ago
They have their independence in the Commonwealth games...hows that working out in the medals table
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Scotland have a higher medal to person ratio than England, meaning that proportionally, Scotland are doing better than England.
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Like Burnley are the best supported football team in England?
posted on 3/8/22
We need more people coming to Scotland. The border could work like Poundland or Lidl. Really easy to get into but then when you realise you have no purpose for actually being there, it is very difficult to leave without joining a queue and spending some money.
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