comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 8 minutes ago
I just can’t believe that so many people would have preferred Martial up front this season over Ronaldo. He’s way too inconsistent
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I would have preferred another player to come in.
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Same but that ain’t happening

Arnautovic aside of course 😂
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We don’t know yet.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Basing it on his time at the club, including last season. He just interacts better with his teammates in general play. So we tend to be more dynamic in creative. Even if they keep missing chances Ronaldo would score.

I want to see us play entertaining football, but Ronaldo makes his teams crap to watch because of his limitations now. Results aren’t important to me. And Ronaldo doesn’t really provide results for his teams nowadays anyway.
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I understand that but I just couldn’t seriously include Martial anymore. He’s had too many seasons and not delivered consistently.

I would also like us to play good football but right now we need to win games and that’s Ronaldo, not Anthony Martial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We won more games the two seasons before Ronaldo came back.

I don’t expect him to either, we need another striker. But if it’s a choice of watching him in the team or Ronaldo I’d rather the Frenchman. The results don’t concern me because it’s going to take time to get this team playing as it should. And Ronaldo just isn’t conducive to that, it’s just kicking the can down the road for a bloke that doesn’t want to be at the club and has no respect for his teammates. Unfortunately we are stuck with him because any good clubs have realised he’s not worth the hassle.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Basing it on his time at the club, including last season. He just interacts better with his teammates in general play. So we tend to be more dynamic in creative. Even if they keep missing chances Ronaldo would score.

I want to see us play entertaining football, but Ronaldo makes his teams crap to watch because of his limitations now. Results aren’t important to me. And Ronaldo doesn’t really provide results for his teams nowadays anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that but I just couldn’t seriously include Martial anymore. He’s had too many seasons and not delivered consistently.

I would also like us to play good football but right now we need to win games and that’s Ronaldo, not Anthony Martial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We won more games the two seasons before Ronaldo came back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation though?

I don’t think it was down to Tony Martial mate

comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
Brilliantly put.

I have been at the thick end of this argument and some I am happy to read and listen. The push for Martial, Rashford and Sancho based on sweet all is what I won't accept. Just look at Rashford and Sancho yesterday, was the lad Sancho even playing. I fear we have bought Kagawa 2.0 here
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Micky was Kagawa 2.0

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Basing it on his time at the club, including last season. He just interacts better with his teammates in general play. So we tend to be more dynamic in creative. Even if they keep missing chances Ronaldo would score.

I want to see us play entertaining football, but Ronaldo makes his teams crap to watch because of his limitations now. Results aren’t important to me. And Ronaldo doesn’t really provide results for his teams nowadays anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that but I just couldn’t seriously include Martial anymore. He’s had too many seasons and not delivered consistently.

I would also like us to play good football but right now we need to win games and that’s Ronaldo, not Anthony Martial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We won more games the two seasons before Ronaldo came back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation though?

I don’t think it was down to Tony Martial mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was down to better team performances. No one said it was down to Martial.

This is what you don’t understand, which is fine.

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
Brilliantly put.

I have been at the thick end of this argument and some I am happy to read and listen. The push for Martial, Rashford and Sancho based on sweet all is what I won't accept. Just look at Rashford and Sancho yesterday, was the lad Sancho even playing. I fear we have bought Kagawa 2.0 here
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Micky was Kagawa 2.0
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We are going for number 3 then.

comment by Franko Cantona 🏆 for ego only (U22187)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
That’s not true actually because Haaland isn’t static like Ronaldo. It does cause us issues in transition, even if there are clearly issues behind the striker.
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Ronaldo isn’t static though even ETH said he improved us in the second half, it’s just an agenda on here to blame Ronaldo for everything, we have had the same real problems in the team for years.

I really don’t care if Ronaldo goes or stays provided the only fall back isn’t Martial but until our bunch of pansies can actually compete in a man’s football match nothing is going to change it will just be another individual to pick on, most of our feckers don’t even deserve to share a pitch with a player like Ronaldo but don’t worry he will gone soon and the mighty Martial can prove me wrong, welbeck amazingly looked twice the player Martial has ever been yesterday
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It's not an agenda. Its based on the fact Ronaldo is in the bottom 1% for pressing and ETH wants us to press.

Arnautovic is the missing piece.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Basing it on his time at the club, including last season. He just interacts better with his teammates in general play. So we tend to be more dynamic in creative. Even if they keep missing chances Ronaldo would score.

I want to see us play entertaining football, but Ronaldo makes his teams crap to watch because of his limitations now. Results aren’t important to me. And Ronaldo doesn’t really provide results for his teams nowadays anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that but I just couldn’t seriously include Martial anymore. He’s had too many seasons and not delivered consistently.

I would also like us to play good football but right now we need to win games and that’s Ronaldo, not Anthony Martial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We won more games the two seasons before Ronaldo came back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation though?

I don’t think it was down to Tony Martial mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps a bit harsh he did have a decent 19/20 season tbf

The total of those two seasons

Played 86 scored 35 15 assists

Vs

Played 39 scored 24 3 assists

Ronaldo was also top of the list of point-earning goals last season in the premier league I think a SKY stat popped up on the game.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Basing it on his time at the club, including last season. He just interacts better with his teammates in general play. So we tend to be more dynamic in creative. Even if they keep missing chances Ronaldo would score.

I want to see us play entertaining football, but Ronaldo makes his teams crap to watch because of his limitations now. Results aren’t important to me. And Ronaldo doesn’t really provide results for his teams nowadays anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that but I just couldn’t seriously include Martial anymore. He’s had too many seasons and not delivered consistently.

I would also like us to play good football but right now we need to win games and that’s Ronaldo, not Anthony Martial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We won more games the two seasons before Ronaldo came back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correlation or causation though?

I don’t think it was down to Tony Martial mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was down to better team performances. No one said it was down to Martial.

This is what you don’t understand, which is fine.

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It is what I am yet to have properly demonstrated. This team has been up and down way before Ronaldo came back.

16/17 we scored less goals than we did last year I think

The total of those two seasons

Played 86 scored 35 15 assists

Vs

Played 39 scored 24 3 assists

….

This is why you don’t understand what is being said. It isn’t about stats it is about the way we play.

For all Ronaldo’s stats we lost more games with him than we did in the two years before him.

When you get this bit you might understand why nobody else wants him and why Souness for example would love him to stay at OT.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
The total of those two seasons

Played 86 scored 35 15 assists

Vs

Played 39 scored 24 3 assists

….

This is why you don’t understand what is being said. It isn’t about stats it is about the way we play.

For all Ronaldo’s stats we lost more games with him than we did in the two years before him.

When you get this bit you might understand why nobody else wants him and why Souness for example would love him to stay at OT.
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As per my post above. You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return. Correlation or causation.

If you can demonstrably prove it, then great. But until then, I won’t be convinced just because you continue to post that you think I don’t understand the benefits of more fluid football.

It is my case that with our midfield and defence our results wouldn’t really have been much better if at all with someone else in place of Ronaldo.

Also it’s not just Souness, is it?

Lost more games = our striker’s fault hmmmm….

Not the midfield not being able to retain the ball and not our defence defending like schoolboys at times.

Nah, it’s because Ronaldo is too static and doesn’t press enough.

You can’t blame just Ronaldo for the results, it’s patently untrue. But he is a problem, and you can certainly point to his inclusion as a major issue with our performances.

Better performances are what we really need to be addressing. The results will eventually come if we do this. But our performances are always going to be limited by Ronaldo’s presence in the team - particularly from an entertainment point of view.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Lost more games = our striker’s fault hmmmm….

Not the midfield not being able to retain the ball and not our defence defending like schoolboys at times.

Nah, it’s because Ronaldo is too static and doesn’t press enough.
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Whether he pressed enough under and old manager's tactics is kind of irrelevant. Is he going to be able to do what ETH needs him to? I'm not convinced, but hope I am wrong.

comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Lost more games = our striker’s fault hmmmm….

Not the midfield not being able to retain the ball and not our defence defending like schoolboys at times.

Nah, it’s because Ronaldo is too static and doesn’t press enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Whether he pressed enough under and old manager's tactics is kind of irrelevant. Is he going to be able to do what ETH needs him to? I'm not convinced, but hope I am wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think he suits ETH’s approach at all, no. But we don’t have suitable, better options imo. Some think Martial would produce better play and therefore better results but I really can’t see it.

You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return.

…

I have already said at the start of this that he isn’t the problem but part of it. And the way we will play to accommodate him is what the issue is with me.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return.

…

I have already said at the start of this that he isn’t the problem but part of it. And the way we will play to accommodate him is what the issue is with me.
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I just don’t think that is the key that is going to unlock that style of play (that we all want). The midfield mostly and we need to sort the defence out too.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
Lost more games = our striker’s fault hmmmm….

Not the midfield not being able to retain the ball and not our defence defending like schoolboys at times.

Nah, it’s because Ronaldo is too static and doesn’t press enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Whether he pressed enough under and old manager's tactics is kind of irrelevant. Is he going to be able to do what ETH needs him to? I'm not convinced, but hope I am wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think he suits ETH’s approach at all, no. But we don’t have suitable, better options imo. Some think Martial would produce better play and therefore better results but I really can’t see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Martial will better suit his style. Not that he is the ultimate answer

There is no key. But given Ten Hag is known to be big on high pressing and rotations in the attack, Ronaldo’s obviously the biggest problem with that.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return.

…

I have already said at the start of this that he isn’t the problem but part of it. And the way we will play to accommodate him is what the issue is with me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t think that is the key that is going to unlock that style of play (that we all want). The midfield mostly and we need to sort the defence out too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was in 2005 with RvN but we had such a better team and character back then. If we replaced Ronnie with Kane for example, it wouldn’t have the effect that getting rid of Ruud did

I wouldn’t mind seeing what Ten Hag could do with Bruno as a striker.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return.

…

I have already said at the start of this that he isn’t the problem but part of it. And the way we will play to accommodate him is what the issue is with me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t think that is the key that is going to unlock that style of play (that we all want). The midfield mostly and we need to sort the defence out too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The striker triggers the press. If he can't do it then I don't see how ETH can play his system. Its not a slight on Ronaldo. He's never been the player to do that and it's unreasonable to expect him to do it now

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 43 seconds ago
You, and others, are yet to demonstrate that the worse results are due to Ronaldo rather than coinciding with his return.

…

I have already said at the start of this that he isn’t the problem but part of it. And the way we will play to accommodate him is what the issue is with me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t think that is the key that is going to unlock that style of play (that we all want). The midfield mostly and we need to sort the defence out too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course. But it makes it easier for the midfield and defence if we can defend from the front better and stop teams walking through us.

We actually did this much better yesterday. None of their goals were from walking through us from the keeper.