comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
Who is being a hypocrite, have the UK gov stated they don’t want Qatar to host the WC?
Or are you claiming anyone in the UK who is against the WC in Qatar is a hypocrite because of the actions of their government?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. People should be more vocal about this than some ultimately irrelevant sporting competition.
Why are we working with and enriching an entity that treats people so badly, but don't want then to host a world cup for the same reason. If people feel so strongly about it where are the calls for us to cut ties.
Boycott Qatar in more meaningful ways than a world cup FFS.
Whatever you think of the OP, he makes a good point in this particular article. A point no one can respond to because it's true and therefore people resort to bringing up other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What point? Have the government tried to stop the World Cup?
You can argue that the FA should have said no, but that doesn't make the government hypocritical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The OP didn't mention the government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? He didn't mention the government in his post. Government is mentioned in his link, which isn't the same thing.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 minutes ago
He isn't making a good point because the people who are trading with Qatar have not said they are against the WC happening in Qatar. While anyone in the UK who is against it have nothing to do with the actions of their government, in fact I'd imagine a large percentage of those people against the WC are also against the current government and much of what they do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why limit this to the people who are trading with Qatar? None of the preacher's attacking this world cup and attacking people like Neville are going to be playing at the world cup either, doesn't stop them from "boycotting it".
An entity that is so evil that it shouldn't even host a sports tournament is OK to trade with, enrich and even support their military?
Instead of defence partnerships, maybe we should invade them too, and bomb the whole country back into the stone age, kill a few women and children while we're at it, so as to civilise them and make things better for everyone in the world and everyone will feel much safer afterwards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The weakness in your argument is your failure to differentiate between various points of view, which are not all held by the same people. At a minimum, you should be aware of the following distinct viewpoints that inform approaches to relations with the Gulf states:
- Concern for the human rights and welfare of the most vulnerable people, such as migrant workers.
- Belief in tolerance and equality around all types of identity.
- Belief in the superiority of Western culture / racist disparagement of others.
- A view (fashionable within parts of the Anglo-American political establishment around the turn of the millennium) that democratic rights and freedom from tyranny are universal, and that it is acceptable to use force to liberate oppressed people.
- Prioritising trade over ethical concerns.
Many of the above are hugely controversial within Western societies. For instance, I would subscribe to the first two views but absolutely not the rest. I was totally opposed to the Iraq invasion, which I consider to be criminal. It does not follow from my criticism of Qatari treatment of migrant workers that I advocate obliterating their country. (Migrants from south Asia make up a large majority of the total population, incidentally. When we hear about respecting the local values of Qatar, let's remember that the vast majority of people who live there belong to a servant class with almost zero personal, let alone political, agency. *Their* values do not have to be respected in any way.)
When there are people who espouse views that clash, then you can talk about inconsistency and hypocrisy. For example, if you talk of respecting minorities and also adopt language describing Qataris in modern-day colonial terms as 'backward', there's a tension that's worth exploring. Similarly, if you talk about sacred human dignity and drop bombs on civilians. There is also a great deal of hypocrisy around governments that talk about ethics and turn a blind eye to especially useful geopolitical or economic partners. But it's lazy to assume that everyone is a hypocrite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
What are you doing? Making assumptions based on no facts.
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 2 hours, 22 minutes ago
Not gonna be another one of your rants about how homosexuality is abhorrent is it? I’ve been booted off here for tongue in cheek stuff which was also far less offensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should have been castrated in real life midget khunt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's first time you've even made me laugh.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
I do not think that any country or government is free from hypocrisy, and if you drew up a list of countries to trade with that were 'whiter than white' it would be a very short list indeed.
But for me what this Qatar WC does highlight is that they are having to open themselves up to scrutiny and this at least should have a positive effect on the country and their culture (generally in terms of tolerance). All part of small gains in moving countries like this to being more tolerant and respectful of human life which otherwise may not have happened had they not hosted this WC. It also shines a light on these countries so that the wider populations of the world can see what is happening and ask questions of their governments as to what they are doing to influence change or are they just taking their money and turning a blind eye. The trade links the exist also provide this opportunity so i do not think it is hypocritcal for us to trade with Qatar and similar regimes unless we truly are turning a blind eye. I mean look at China...all of us have countless items in our homes that are made in China. Anyone out there refusing to buy Chinese goods on the basis of their human rights record. Nah, thought not.
The OP is just another classic virtue-signalling hypocrite who will happily throw such accusations around but whose personal actions probably wouldnt stand up to the same standards they apply to others. Is the OP boycotting the WC?
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 26 minutes ago
No alcohol will be served at stadiums during the World Cup.
Budweiser must be fuming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that's going to really effect their Qatar sales projections 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s more the millions they have paid and their product is banned in the stadiums.
The Qataris will happily let migrant workers die building their stadiums but you western infidels can’t drink beer inside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
99.99% of intestinal in games will come from global TV, and they will still have their brand everywhere. Won't stop people drinking their pi55water whilst they watch it
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argumentation is extremely vague. You have a vague sense of both who the hypocrites are, and what the actual inconsistent views they are espousing are.
For instance, how many people - even here on this forum - are actually advocating a boycott of the Qatari World Cup? Most, as far as I can see, are simply criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to a nation that put indentured migrant workers in such conditions that it was inevitable that many would die during the construction of stadiums and (contrary to FIFA's stated values) one that would not welcome all members of the footballing community to the competition. It does not follow from such criticism that we should be actively campaigning to sever all relations with Qatar.
Would you describe yourself as a hypocrite for on one hand opposing the exercise of Western power against weaker and poorer people in the Middle East, while on the other hand passing no comment on the deadly abuse and exploitation of powerless and poor Nepalese and Bangladeshi migrants by wealthy Qataris?
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
Who is being a hypocrite, have the UK gov stated they don’t want Qatar to host the WC?
Or are you claiming anyone in the UK who is against the WC in Qatar is a hypocrite because of the actions of their government?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. People should be more vocal about this than some ultimately irrelevant sporting competition.
Why are we working with and enriching an entity that treats people so badly, but don't want then to host a world cup for the same reason. If people feel so strongly about it where are the calls for us to cut ties.
Boycott Qatar in more meaningful ways than a world cup FFS.
Whatever you think of the OP, he makes a good point in this particular article. A point no one can respond to because it's true and therefore people resort to bringing up other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What point? Have the government tried to stop the World Cup?
You can argue that the FA should have said no, but that doesn't make the government hypocritical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The OP didn't mention the government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? He didn't mention the government in his post. Government is mentioned in his link, which isn't the same thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was talking about the hypocrisy of trading with Qatar. Who trades with Qatar? The UK Government - as per his provided link.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argumentation is extremely vague. You have a vague sense of both who the hypocrites are, and what the actual inconsistent views they are espousing are.
For instance, how many people - even here on this forum - are actually advocating a boycott of the Qatari World Cup? Most, as far as I can see, are simply criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to a nation that put indentured migrant workers in such conditions that it was inevitable that many would die during the construction of stadiums and (contrary to FIFA's stated values) one that would not welcome all members of the footballing community to the competition. It does not follow from such criticism that we should be actively campaigning to sever all relations with Qatar.
-----
Nobody said that this is how it works. You are first trying to explain to me your own version of what I'm saying, instead of reading what I actually said, and then using that self generated premise as a purported reply.
You also zero it down to people campaigning to boycott the world cup, but this doesn't apply to those people alone.
As you said, most are criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to them, without pointing out that if the same standards were applied to all world cups, we would hardly ever have a host. Russia are now barred from participating in most sports but USA and its allies have never faced such action even though they've been just as bad if not worse. These are the same guys that have no problem selling arms and bombs to dictators and authoritarians which are used to kill people. They have directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions of men, women and children. The world is flooded with refugees because of wars and proxy wars when we all know it's all about money and control of natural wealth.
So I am not defending Qatar but spare me the sermon.
Would you describe yourself as a hypocrite for on one hand opposing the exercise of Western power against weaker and poorer people in the Middle East, while on the other hand passing no comment on the deadly abuse and exploitation of powerless and poor Nepalese and Bangladeshi migrants by wealthy Qataris?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again this is not at the individual level. You keep bringing it back to the individual because otherwise your point wouldn't be relevant.
Groups of people can have characteristics and emotions and hypocrisy is something a group of people or country can exhibit. You talk as if it doesn't exist. It exists and this Qatar world cup is a classic example and has exposed many things, including that hypocrisy.
Sign in if you want to comment
Look what I stumbled upon
Page 3 of 3
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
Who is being a hypocrite, have the UK gov stated they don’t want Qatar to host the WC?
Or are you claiming anyone in the UK who is against the WC in Qatar is a hypocrite because of the actions of their government?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. People should be more vocal about this than some ultimately irrelevant sporting competition.
Why are we working with and enriching an entity that treats people so badly, but don't want then to host a world cup for the same reason. If people feel so strongly about it where are the calls for us to cut ties.
Boycott Qatar in more meaningful ways than a world cup FFS.
Whatever you think of the OP, he makes a good point in this particular article. A point no one can respond to because it's true and therefore people resort to bringing up other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What point? Have the government tried to stop the World Cup?
You can argue that the FA should have said no, but that doesn't make the government hypocritical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The OP didn't mention the government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? He didn't mention the government in his post. Government is mentioned in his link, which isn't the same thing.
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 12 minutes ago
He isn't making a good point because the people who are trading with Qatar have not said they are against the WC happening in Qatar. While anyone in the UK who is against it have nothing to do with the actions of their government, in fact I'd imagine a large percentage of those people against the WC are also against the current government and much of what they do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why limit this to the people who are trading with Qatar? None of the preacher's attacking this world cup and attacking people like Neville are going to be playing at the world cup either, doesn't stop them from "boycotting it".
An entity that is so evil that it shouldn't even host a sports tournament is OK to trade with, enrich and even support their military?
Instead of defence partnerships, maybe we should invade them too, and bomb the whole country back into the stone age, kill a few women and children while we're at it, so as to civilise them and make things better for everyone in the world and everyone will feel much safer afterwards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The weakness in your argument is your failure to differentiate between various points of view, which are not all held by the same people. At a minimum, you should be aware of the following distinct viewpoints that inform approaches to relations with the Gulf states:
- Concern for the human rights and welfare of the most vulnerable people, such as migrant workers.
- Belief in tolerance and equality around all types of identity.
- Belief in the superiority of Western culture / racist disparagement of others.
- A view (fashionable within parts of the Anglo-American political establishment around the turn of the millennium) that democratic rights and freedom from tyranny are universal, and that it is acceptable to use force to liberate oppressed people.
- Prioritising trade over ethical concerns.
Many of the above are hugely controversial within Western societies. For instance, I would subscribe to the first two views but absolutely not the rest. I was totally opposed to the Iraq invasion, which I consider to be criminal. It does not follow from my criticism of Qatari treatment of migrant workers that I advocate obliterating their country. (Migrants from south Asia make up a large majority of the total population, incidentally. When we hear about respecting the local values of Qatar, let's remember that the vast majority of people who live there belong to a servant class with almost zero personal, let alone political, agency. *Their* values do not have to be respected in any way.)
When there are people who espouse views that clash, then you can talk about inconsistency and hypocrisy. For example, if you talk of respecting minorities and also adopt language describing Qataris in modern-day colonial terms as 'backward', there's a tension that's worth exploring. Similarly, if you talk about sacred human dignity and drop bombs on civilians. There is also a great deal of hypocrisy around governments that talk about ethics and turn a blind eye to especially useful geopolitical or economic partners. But it's lazy to assume that everyone is a hypocrite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
posted on 18/11/22
What are you doing? Making assumptions based on no facts.
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Kingdom of Davids (U21957)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 2 hours, 22 minutes ago
Not gonna be another one of your rants about how homosexuality is abhorrent is it? I’ve been booted off here for tongue in cheek stuff which was also far less offensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should have been castrated in real life midget khunt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's first time you've even made me laugh.
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
posted on 18/11/22
I do not think that any country or government is free from hypocrisy, and if you drew up a list of countries to trade with that were 'whiter than white' it would be a very short list indeed.
But for me what this Qatar WC does highlight is that they are having to open themselves up to scrutiny and this at least should have a positive effect on the country and their culture (generally in terms of tolerance). All part of small gains in moving countries like this to being more tolerant and respectful of human life which otherwise may not have happened had they not hosted this WC. It also shines a light on these countries so that the wider populations of the world can see what is happening and ask questions of their governments as to what they are doing to influence change or are they just taking their money and turning a blind eye. The trade links the exist also provide this opportunity so i do not think it is hypocritcal for us to trade with Qatar and similar regimes unless we truly are turning a blind eye. I mean look at China...all of us have countless items in our homes that are made in China. Anyone out there refusing to buy Chinese goods on the basis of their human rights record. Nah, thought not.
The OP is just another classic virtue-signalling hypocrite who will happily throw such accusations around but whose personal actions probably wouldnt stand up to the same standards they apply to others. Is the OP boycotting the WC?
posted on 18/11/22
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 26 minutes ago
No alcohol will be served at stadiums during the World Cup.
Budweiser must be fuming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that's going to really effect their Qatar sales projections 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s more the millions they have paid and their product is banned in the stadiums.
The Qataris will happily let migrant workers die building their stadiums but you western infidels can’t drink beer inside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
99.99% of intestinal in games will come from global TV, and they will still have their brand everywhere. Won't stop people drinking their pi55water whilst they watch it
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argumentation is extremely vague. You have a vague sense of both who the hypocrites are, and what the actual inconsistent views they are espousing are.
For instance, how many people - even here on this forum - are actually advocating a boycott of the Qatari World Cup? Most, as far as I can see, are simply criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to a nation that put indentured migrant workers in such conditions that it was inevitable that many would die during the construction of stadiums and (contrary to FIFA's stated values) one that would not welcome all members of the footballing community to the competition. It does not follow from such criticism that we should be actively campaigning to sever all relations with Qatar.
Would you describe yourself as a hypocrite for on one hand opposing the exercise of Western power against weaker and poorer people in the Middle East, while on the other hand passing no comment on the deadly abuse and exploitation of powerless and poor Nepalese and Bangladeshi migrants by wealthy Qataris?
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 44 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
Who is being a hypocrite, have the UK gov stated they don’t want Qatar to host the WC?
Or are you claiming anyone in the UK who is against the WC in Qatar is a hypocrite because of the actions of their government?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. People should be more vocal about this than some ultimately irrelevant sporting competition.
Why are we working with and enriching an entity that treats people so badly, but don't want then to host a world cup for the same reason. If people feel so strongly about it where are the calls for us to cut ties.
Boycott Qatar in more meaningful ways than a world cup FFS.
Whatever you think of the OP, he makes a good point in this particular article. A point no one can respond to because it's true and therefore people resort to bringing up other stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What point? Have the government tried to stop the World Cup?
You can argue that the FA should have said no, but that doesn't make the government hypocritical
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The OP didn't mention the government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? He didn't mention the government in his post. Government is mentioned in his link, which isn't the same thing.
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He was talking about the hypocrisy of trading with Qatar. Who trades with Qatar? The UK Government - as per his provided link.
posted on 18/11/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 hours, 36 minutes ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Serious Thorgen Kloppinson - No laughing matter (U1282)
posted 6 seconds ago
Well said tbh, but I haven't assumed everyone is a hypocrite. It's impossible to differentiate individuals as there's billions of us. Points are made in reference to the perception you get from the collective, so I accept what you say, but that's not what I'm doing here.
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How valuable do you think it is to talk about a generalised hypocrisy when in reality there may be very few people who are actually hypocritical? For instance:
- I may be wrong, but I reckon there aren't many racist Islamophobes who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age probably who care that much about migrant or gay rights.
- Those who prioritise trade over ethics are by nature going to want to play down political and moral questions about the Qatari state.
Isn't the muddle of different, clashing points of view that you are describing less a case of hypocrisy, and more one of the diversity of opinion that characterises a large, pluralistic society?
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You don't know if it's a few people. In my perception it's many people and that drives my opinion. Perhaps you perceive differently which drives your opinion, and that's fair enough.
Of course there aren't many people who want to bomb Arabia to the stone age. Most people don't care enough IMO, which is the problem, otherwise there'd be more furore over what's happened there for many decades now. Seems to me like there is more concern over a world cup.
And the hypocrisy isn't limited to just the OP. How can it not be hypocrisy to call for a boycott of Qatar world cup and not call for boycott of everything Qatar?
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Your argumentation is extremely vague. You have a vague sense of both who the hypocrites are, and what the actual inconsistent views they are espousing are.
For instance, how many people - even here on this forum - are actually advocating a boycott of the Qatari World Cup? Most, as far as I can see, are simply criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to a nation that put indentured migrant workers in such conditions that it was inevitable that many would die during the construction of stadiums and (contrary to FIFA's stated values) one that would not welcome all members of the footballing community to the competition. It does not follow from such criticism that we should be actively campaigning to sever all relations with Qatar.
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Nobody said that this is how it works. You are first trying to explain to me your own version of what I'm saying, instead of reading what I actually said, and then using that self generated premise as a purported reply.
You also zero it down to people campaigning to boycott the world cup, but this doesn't apply to those people alone.
As you said, most are criticising Qatar and criticising the decision to award the hosting rights to them, without pointing out that if the same standards were applied to all world cups, we would hardly ever have a host. Russia are now barred from participating in most sports but USA and its allies have never faced such action even though they've been just as bad if not worse. These are the same guys that have no problem selling arms and bombs to dictators and authoritarians which are used to kill people. They have directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions of men, women and children. The world is flooded with refugees because of wars and proxy wars when we all know it's all about money and control of natural wealth.
So I am not defending Qatar but spare me the sermon.
Would you describe yourself as a hypocrite for on one hand opposing the exercise of Western power against weaker and poorer people in the Middle East, while on the other hand passing no comment on the deadly abuse and exploitation of powerless and poor Nepalese and Bangladeshi migrants by wealthy Qataris?
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Again this is not at the individual level. You keep bringing it back to the individual because otherwise your point wouldn't be relevant.
Groups of people can have characteristics and emotions and hypocrisy is something a group of people or country can exhibit. You talk as if it doesn't exist. It exists and this Qatar world cup is a classic example and has exposed many things, including that hypocrisy.
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