comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 12 seconds ago
VVD has no red cards. Vidic has 4 just against liverpool. Thing is Vidic had rio etc so they were still solid in his absence. VVD came in at Liverpool and made the other defenders better, and is a huge loss even now when injured.
United were so good back then under fergie. Vidic was immense but not as essential as VVD is to Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are overlooking how well protected VVD was by the 3 CMs ahead of him. Once they moved on or declined and were not properly replaced, we saw that VVD wasn't quite as good as everyone thought. His positioning and reading of the game are some way off Rio for me. VVD is probably about on par with Vidic. Different attributes and qualities, but they are about the same level. Rio was a level above for me, as was McGrath
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See I'd say vidic and VVD were better than rio at defending. Rio was a baller for a CB but his concentration wasnt the best and was an issue for years. We can't forget that. He had a crazy good team around him. Veron was a record fee and barely got a game back then. Fergie had we brown and John oshea looking like world class cbs in that team, and we know how they faired when they left united.
Rio, vidic and VVD are all time great defenders in the PL. It's kinda splitting hairs to separate them and depends on what metric u wanna pull out, and personal bias/opinion.
I think no defender has made as big an individual improvement to a team as VVD has to Liverpool, so that's why I'd opt for him. All CB's even these greats had bad form.
If I had to pick 2 from 3 in their primes for a cup final I'd take VVD and vidic personally but I do admit that's a personal opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidic was better in the air and tougher, but Rio was better at defending overall. His reading of the game, positioning and timing of his tackles was incredible. Despite being very quick, you rarely saw him sprinting because he was almost always in the right position.
He was a level above the rest for me. Only McGrath can compare. After that you've got VVD, Terry, Vidic, Stam, Campbell, Woodgate, Calvalho etc.
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Jones is an English central defender who has been at Man Utd for 13 years. During this time he guided his team to the PL title on one occasion. He is often compared to rival team player Van Dijk who also guided his team to a PL title. It is difficult to separate the two but most say that Jones' longevity is what puts him above Van Dijk overall.
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Autumn and winter?
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad what injuries have done to his career. He has become a joke, but he could have been an excellent player if he wasn't made of glass.
Peak VVD wasn't as good as Peak Rio or Peak Vidic
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And he’s getting regularly lambasted on match threads by Liverpool fans
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad what injuries have done to his career. He has become a joke, but he could have been an excellent player if he wasn't made of glass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But enough about VVD
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your own comment which I replied to is about the league only you genius.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your own comment which I replied to is about the league only you genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And your own comment was about his record at Anfield in his whole Liverpool career, not just in the league, moron
I have immense respect for any functioning alcoholic/drug addict that outs himself the way Carragher has today. I just hope it doesn’t give courage to other stupid people to post their ramblings on social media…….
You were literally referring to every trophy available in the same sentence ffs
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And he’s getting regularly lambasted on match threads by Liverpool fans
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The usual suspects. This is like paying attention to RDD or any other United board loon.
"VVD has had two good seasons". Good wum
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 58 seconds ago
You were literally referring to every trophy available in the same sentence ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but your comment which I replied to was about the league only.
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
There's no such thing as neutral fans.
There are if you know where to look. I'm definitely neutral and I say VVD is miles better.
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
There's no such thing as neutral fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as far as Liverpool are concerned as everyone else hates them.
Horrible smelly bed wetting individuals.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
comment by Chris[topher] (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was actually going to ask who the king was 🤣. Thankfully when I saw you were a Spurs fan, it clicked. Lesley was a fine player, if it weren't for injuries he could have achieved even more
VVD hasn't been the same player since his cruciate injury. Was on his way to be one of the best CB ever in the PL but probably just falls short because of the injury.
A different player to Vidic but Vidic was at the top of his game for longer. They would have formed a great cb pairing at their peaks.
comment by Chris[topher] (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You were right to point out you were joking. Someone above put that they thought Woodgate was on the same level as Terry and I think they were being serious. Everyone knows Terry doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.
Sign in if you want to comment
Carragher
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6
posted on 10/4/23
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 12 seconds ago
VVD has no red cards. Vidic has 4 just against liverpool. Thing is Vidic had rio etc so they were still solid in his absence. VVD came in at Liverpool and made the other defenders better, and is a huge loss even now when injured.
United were so good back then under fergie. Vidic was immense but not as essential as VVD is to Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are overlooking how well protected VVD was by the 3 CMs ahead of him. Once they moved on or declined and were not properly replaced, we saw that VVD wasn't quite as good as everyone thought. His positioning and reading of the game are some way off Rio for me. VVD is probably about on par with Vidic. Different attributes and qualities, but they are about the same level. Rio was a level above for me, as was McGrath
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See I'd say vidic and VVD were better than rio at defending. Rio was a baller for a CB but his concentration wasnt the best and was an issue for years. We can't forget that. He had a crazy good team around him. Veron was a record fee and barely got a game back then. Fergie had we brown and John oshea looking like world class cbs in that team, and we know how they faired when they left united.
Rio, vidic and VVD are all time great defenders in the PL. It's kinda splitting hairs to separate them and depends on what metric u wanna pull out, and personal bias/opinion.
I think no defender has made as big an individual improvement to a team as VVD has to Liverpool, so that's why I'd opt for him. All CB's even these greats had bad form.
If I had to pick 2 from 3 in their primes for a cup final I'd take VVD and vidic personally but I do admit that's a personal opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidic was better in the air and tougher, but Rio was better at defending overall. His reading of the game, positioning and timing of his tackles was incredible. Despite being very quick, you rarely saw him sprinting because he was almost always in the right position.
He was a level above the rest for me. Only McGrath can compare. After that you've got VVD, Terry, Vidic, Stam, Campbell, Woodgate, Calvalho etc.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 1 minute ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Jones is an English central defender who has been at Man Utd for 13 years. During this time he guided his team to the PL title on one occasion. He is often compared to rival team player Van Dijk who also guided his team to a PL title. It is difficult to separate the two but most say that Jones' longevity is what puts him above Van Dijk overall.
posted on 10/4/23
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Autumn and winter?
posted on 10/4/23
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad what injuries have done to his career. He has become a joke, but he could have been an excellent player if he wasn't made of glass.
posted on 10/4/23
Peak VVD wasn't as good as Peak Rio or Peak Vidic
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And he’s getting regularly lambasted on match threads by Liverpool fans
posted on 10/4/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
I remember after his first few games for us, I thought, Phil Jones could be as good as any of them.............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sad what injuries have done to his career. He has become a joke, but he could have been an excellent player if he wasn't made of glass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But enough about VVD
posted on 10/4/23
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your own comment which I replied to is about the league only you genius.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 32 minutes ago
Tbf prime VVD may well be better than Vidic imo. But then, I thought Rio was also better than Vidic and also better than VVD, for that matter.
Rio once went through an entire calendar year committing only two fouls. And United won a league title and had the best defensive record over that period, so it's not like he wasn't contributing. His positioning was just second to none, so he never had to go to ground
----------------------------------------------------------------------
VVD has only lost one game at Anfield in his entire Liverpool career and Liverpool have won every single trophy available during that period at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean at least once? It's only once, as well you know. And I don't really care about his record at Anfield, which is also untrue as you're ignoring shipping 5 at home to Real.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your own comment which I replied to is about the league only you genius.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And your own comment was about his record at Anfield in his whole Liverpool career, not just in the league, moron
posted on 10/4/23
I have immense respect for any functioning alcoholic/drug addict that outs himself the way Carragher has today. I just hope it doesn’t give courage to other stupid people to post their ramblings on social media…….
posted on 10/4/23
You were literally referring to every trophy available in the same sentence ffs
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb #gotheSwans (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
VVD has had two good seasons
Fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And he’s getting regularly lambasted on match threads by Liverpool fans
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The usual suspects. This is like paying attention to RDD or any other United board loon.
"VVD has had two good seasons". Good wum
posted on 10/4/23
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 58 seconds ago
You were literally referring to every trophy available in the same sentence ffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but your comment which I replied to was about the league only.
posted on 10/4/23
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
posted on 10/4/23
There's no such thing as neutral fans.
posted on 10/4/23
There are if you know where to look. I'm definitely neutral and I say VVD is miles better.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 3 minutes ago
There's no such thing as neutral fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as far as Liverpool are concerned as everyone else hates them.
Horrible smelly bed wetting individuals.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Chris[topher] (U20930)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was actually going to ask who the king was 🤣. Thankfully when I saw you were a Spurs fan, it clicked. Lesley was a fine player, if it weren't for injuries he could have achieved even more
posted on 10/4/23
*Ledley ffs. Autocorrect
posted on 10/4/23
VVD hasn't been the same player since his cruciate injury. Was on his way to be one of the best CB ever in the PL but probably just falls short because of the injury.
A different player to Vidic but Vidic was at the top of his game for longer. They would have formed a great cb pairing at their peaks.
posted on 10/4/23
comment by Chris[topher] (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
Debates like this are always best settled by neutral fans. The bias from fans of teams that those players played for just gets embarrassing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, neutrals like us can see clearly and conclude that this debate is a waste of time because king was better than both
(dear angry 606 poster who is angrily responding to this joke about fan bias, I am not being serious please take a breath and step away from the keyboard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You were right to point out you were joking. Someone above put that they thought Woodgate was on the same level as Terry and I think they were being serious. Everyone knows Terry doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.
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