Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
The Twitter account, in case anyone wants to check it out, is: https://twitter.com/TheDevilsDNA.
They've done several series of articles exploring the most suitable players for positions United need to strengthen in. Going quite heavily into statistical profiles but with a healthy amount of real-world context.
The only Maxi Lopez I know is the one who’s girlfriend had an affair with Mauro Icardi.
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His name has cropped up too.
In theory it would be nice to get these players before teams like Brighton do but there’s a reason they go for these players and we generally don’t.
At smaller clubs these players have more time to settle and develop without the pressures of a big team.
We generally go for more proven players that cost a bit more but are probably better suited to a move to a bigger club. I’d say that’s how big clubs do 90% of their business, and for a reason.
Yeah I’ve seen him mentioned online. The obvious issues with a lot of these player profiles that people do on the internet is that having a specific style doesn’t really mean they are of the required quality to play at the highest level.
I know it’s a reductive argument, and they have a lot of depth in the position, but you’d have to question why someone at 25 is still uncapped for France.
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might make sense now that Chelsea have signed the other Enzo for a high fee
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
1982 and Dazza, I take your respective points.
We'll always have to buy players who are closer to being ready to step up. And we'll have to pay more for the same player that Brighton would bag on the cheap because of who we are. But I'm sure none of us would deny that we have a lot of room for improvement in terms of identifying and buying quality players for reasonable prices. Other teams with similar structural challenges like City and Liverpool have been consistently doing that better than us.
And a good point about players who have the perfect profile to thrive at a certain lower profile club not necessarily being of the quality we want. This is a major factor in the Dortmund Phenomenon, isn't it? The only thing I'd add is that if we start buying players whose profiles are a great match for the roles we want them to play, that gives us a bit of leeway when it comes to quality. With a few exceptions, I'd say the squad Arsenal have put together isn't one of 24-carat elite talents. But they have done well to buy players who are technically secure on the ball and possess the attributes required for their specific roles.
Still, plenty of these players who look right for us won't be good enough. Guimaraes would have been.
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
------------------------------------------------
I thought that the other day too although I thought he was in the last year of his contract.
Kokcu would be one to keep an eye on and is similar in some ways to the likes of Lopez and Le Fee.
I still think Bennacer is the most suitable in terms of being the required quality but now that he's signed a new deal he'd probably cost close to double what some of the lesser known players would.
Admin, can we ban the use of the name Guimaraes on the United board please? Ta.
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 5 minutes ago
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
------------------------------------------------
I thought that the other day too although I thought he was in the last year of his contract.
Kokcu would be one to keep an eye on and is similar in some ways to the likes of Lopez and Le Fee.
I still think Bennacer is the most suitable in terms of being the required quality but now that he's signed a new deal he'd probably cost close to double what some of the lesser known players would.
Admin, can we ban the use of the name Guimaraes on the United board please? Ta.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR, yeah they are good points. Having a better recruitment strategy is certainly something we need. On the issue of quality it’s not necessarily about the skill of the player but the mental qualities to play at the highest level for a club like United. It’s by far the most important thing for big clubs, and why so many fail making the step up from smaller clubs, and why so many big clubs are more than happy to let smaller clubs develop players before they buy them.
Manchester United don’t really need to worry about picking players up for reasonable prices before they get too expensive, City don’t do that and we’ve spent as much as they have since Fergie retired. We need the right manager and players, they’ve done that well and we haven’t. They’ve not been incredibly clever about how they’ve done that, they’ve just been run effectively as big clubs should, with success on the pitch a key driver in their decision making. The latter is the most important issue here really, that’s clearly something that’s been lost at the club under the ownership of the Glazers.
The only player I’ve seen who looks like he has many of the kinds of qualities that FDJ has, who is young and seemingly attainable for a lower fee is Azzedine Ounahi who tore up the WC for Morocco. He did move to Marseille in January for about £10m, but shortly afterwards broke his foot and has been out. He looks a super talent: big engine, quick, takes people on, carries the ball, tenacious and a decent passer of the ball. And he plays as a proper CM player rather than an advanced midfielder. Whether or not he’s cut out for the top end of the PL I don’t know, but he’s one I’d be looking at. Having moved in January I don’t know how attainable he’d be.
It’s also quite interesting to me that Angel Gomes has been playing in the double-pivot for Lille all season. I don’t watch French football so couldn’t say how he’s doing there. If we resigned him we’d make it back in shirt sales.
Should be in for the guy Sukon that plays for Nice I think.
Would be exactly what we need up front.
Also... What Darren said. If this Lopez guy is uncapped at 25 and plying his trade at a relatively unfashionable Italian team, it doesn't sound too convincing! Obviously, I've never seen the guy play and he might be a gem who is now at the stage where he's ready to play at a higher level.
But what I would say is that I recall a number of years ago that Joe Allen, statistically, was up there with Carrick on a number of key midfield metrics whilst playing for Swansea. I'm sure scouting Twitter would have identified him as a FDJ alternative on paper, too. Joe Allen is 33 years old - an age where many of the top players are still at or near the peak of their game - and playing in the Championship.
Sometimes certain players hit a bit of a purple patch in their careers and punch above their weight for a while. Joe Allen is one such example, someone like James Beattie might be another one.
So I'm always a bit skeptical when I see a Moneyball-style Twitter list of possible signings where that Twitter account has likely never seen the players listed actually play. From what you've said, Maxime Lopez sounds like a decent player in the lane he's currently cruising down, but it all sounds a bit too Joe Allen to me.
Agree with that, BK. It’s the flaw of rudimentary statistical analysis, where fbref can collate players into percentiles that lack any context. Obviously it can be a useful tool to give a better impression of players that we don’t watch, but I think an acknowledgment of the expertise of the clubs needs to be considered when addressing these suggestions.
Fans of big clubs have become obsessed with finding ‘hidden gems’ because it has worked for Brighton and Brentford (ignoring all the failures), even though most of them aren’t really hidden gems and big clubs just know they aren’t good enough, or are willing to wait until they do.
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
Against all the negativity, N'Golo Kante played for Caen, where I live. Without exception everyone raved about him, I wrote to United to say have a look.
Leicester bought him for £6 million and won the league.
Agree with the points about stats-based analysis. In defence of the particular account referenced above, they do try to connect the stats with a certain amount of observational analysis and putting data in context such as how the league / team the player is in shapes the statistical picture.
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 7 minutes ago
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have perfectly understood my point. Congratulations.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Agree with the points about stats-based analysis. In defence of the particular account referenced above, they do try to connect the stats with a certain amount of observational analysis and putting data in context such as how the league / team the player is in shapes the statistical picture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was more a general comment than aimed at any particular accounts.
Football clubs have far more comprehensive scouting databases than anything available to people on the internet.
It’s all a bit ‘we’ve had enough of experts’ to me rather than looking at the poor executive decisions that football clubs make.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 7 minutes ago
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have perfectly understood my point. Congratulations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh ?
Thanks 👍
“ I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price”
Totally agree, we have often been linked with players who end up at mid table clubs and smash it. Often very obviously good players that are well known to be too talents too.
If Brighton are after him then we must buy him now
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Maxime Lopez
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posted on 16/5/23
Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
posted on 16/5/23
The Twitter account, in case anyone wants to check it out, is: https://twitter.com/TheDevilsDNA.
They've done several series of articles exploring the most suitable players for positions United need to strengthen in. Going quite heavily into statistical profiles but with a healthy amount of real-world context.
posted on 16/5/23
The only Maxi Lopez I know is the one who’s girlfriend had an affair with Mauro Icardi.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His name has cropped up too.
posted on 16/5/23
In theory it would be nice to get these players before teams like Brighton do but there’s a reason they go for these players and we generally don’t.
At smaller clubs these players have more time to settle and develop without the pressures of a big team.
We generally go for more proven players that cost a bit more but are probably better suited to a move to a bigger club. I’d say that’s how big clubs do 90% of their business, and for a reason.
posted on 16/5/23
Yeah I’ve seen him mentioned online. The obvious issues with a lot of these player profiles that people do on the internet is that having a specific style doesn’t really mean they are of the required quality to play at the highest level.
I know it’s a reductive argument, and they have a lot of depth in the position, but you’d have to question why someone at 25 is still uncapped for France.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 13 minutes ago
Enzo Le Fee for a low fee?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Might make sense now that Chelsea have signed the other Enzo for a high fee
posted on 16/5/23
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
posted on 16/5/23
1982 and Dazza, I take your respective points.
We'll always have to buy players who are closer to being ready to step up. And we'll have to pay more for the same player that Brighton would bag on the cheap because of who we are. But I'm sure none of us would deny that we have a lot of room for improvement in terms of identifying and buying quality players for reasonable prices. Other teams with similar structural challenges like City and Liverpool have been consistently doing that better than us.
And a good point about players who have the perfect profile to thrive at a certain lower profile club not necessarily being of the quality we want. This is a major factor in the Dortmund Phenomenon, isn't it? The only thing I'd add is that if we start buying players whose profiles are a great match for the roles we want them to play, that gives us a bit of leeway when it comes to quality. With a few exceptions, I'd say the squad Arsenal have put together isn't one of 24-carat elite talents. But they have done well to buy players who are technically secure on the ball and possess the attributes required for their specific roles.
Still, plenty of these players who look right for us won't be good enough. Guimaraes would have been.
posted on 16/5/23
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
------------------------------------------------
I thought that the other day too although I thought he was in the last year of his contract.
Kokcu would be one to keep an eye on and is similar in some ways to the likes of Lopez and Le Fee.
I still think Bennacer is the most suitable in terms of being the required quality but now that he's signed a new deal he'd probably cost close to double what some of the lesser known players would.
Admin, can we ban the use of the name Guimaraes on the United board please? Ta.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 5 minutes ago
Kovacic would actually be a player that could solve a lot of our issues in cm. Problem is his age and injury record.
------------------------------------------------
I thought that the other day too although I thought he was in the last year of his contract.
Kokcu would be one to keep an eye on and is similar in some ways to the likes of Lopez and Le Fee.
I still think Bennacer is the most suitable in terms of being the required quality but now that he's signed a new deal he'd probably cost close to double what some of the lesser known players would.
Admin, can we ban the use of the name Guimaraes on the United board please? Ta.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 16/5/23
RR, yeah they are good points. Having a better recruitment strategy is certainly something we need. On the issue of quality it’s not necessarily about the skill of the player but the mental qualities to play at the highest level for a club like United. It’s by far the most important thing for big clubs, and why so many fail making the step up from smaller clubs, and why so many big clubs are more than happy to let smaller clubs develop players before they buy them.
Manchester United don’t really need to worry about picking players up for reasonable prices before they get too expensive, City don’t do that and we’ve spent as much as they have since Fergie retired. We need the right manager and players, they’ve done that well and we haven’t. They’ve not been incredibly clever about how they’ve done that, they’ve just been run effectively as big clubs should, with success on the pitch a key driver in their decision making. The latter is the most important issue here really, that’s clearly something that’s been lost at the club under the ownership of the Glazers.
posted on 16/5/23
The only player I’ve seen who looks like he has many of the kinds of qualities that FDJ has, who is young and seemingly attainable for a lower fee is Azzedine Ounahi who tore up the WC for Morocco. He did move to Marseille in January for about £10m, but shortly afterwards broke his foot and has been out. He looks a super talent: big engine, quick, takes people on, carries the ball, tenacious and a decent passer of the ball. And he plays as a proper CM player rather than an advanced midfielder. Whether or not he’s cut out for the top end of the PL I don’t know, but he’s one I’d be looking at. Having moved in January I don’t know how attainable he’d be.
It’s also quite interesting to me that Angel Gomes has been playing in the double-pivot for Lille all season. I don’t watch French football so couldn’t say how he’s doing there. If we resigned him we’d make it back in shirt sales.
posted on 16/5/23
Should be in for the guy Sukon that plays for Nice I think.
Would be exactly what we need up front.
posted on 16/5/23
Also... What Darren said. If this Lopez guy is uncapped at 25 and plying his trade at a relatively unfashionable Italian team, it doesn't sound too convincing! Obviously, I've never seen the guy play and he might be a gem who is now at the stage where he's ready to play at a higher level.
But what I would say is that I recall a number of years ago that Joe Allen, statistically, was up there with Carrick on a number of key midfield metrics whilst playing for Swansea. I'm sure scouting Twitter would have identified him as a FDJ alternative on paper, too. Joe Allen is 33 years old - an age where many of the top players are still at or near the peak of their game - and playing in the Championship.
Sometimes certain players hit a bit of a purple patch in their careers and punch above their weight for a while. Joe Allen is one such example, someone like James Beattie might be another one.
So I'm always a bit skeptical when I see a Moneyball-style Twitter list of possible signings where that Twitter account has likely never seen the players listed actually play. From what you've said, Maxime Lopez sounds like a decent player in the lane he's currently cruising down, but it all sounds a bit too Joe Allen to me.
posted on 16/5/23
Agree with that, BK. It’s the flaw of rudimentary statistical analysis, where fbref can collate players into percentiles that lack any context. Obviously it can be a useful tool to give a better impression of players that we don’t watch, but I think an acknowledgment of the expertise of the clubs needs to be considered when addressing these suggestions.
Fans of big clubs have become obsessed with finding ‘hidden gems’ because it has worked for Brighton and Brentford (ignoring all the failures), even though most of them aren’t really hidden gems and big clubs just know they aren’t good enough, or are willing to wait until they do.
posted on 16/5/23
*do become good enough.
posted on 16/5/23
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
posted on 16/5/23
Against all the negativity, N'Golo Kante played for Caen, where I live. Without exception everyone raved about him, I wrote to United to say have a look.
Leicester bought him for £6 million and won the league.
posted on 16/5/23
Agree with the points about stats-based analysis. In defence of the particular account referenced above, they do try to connect the stats with a certain amount of observational analysis and putting data in context such as how the league / team the player is in shapes the statistical picture.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 7 minutes ago
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have perfectly understood my point. Congratulations.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Agree with the points about stats-based analysis. In defence of the particular account referenced above, they do try to connect the stats with a certain amount of observational analysis and putting data in context such as how the league / team the player is in shapes the statistical picture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was more a general comment than aimed at any particular accounts.
Football clubs have far more comprehensive scouting databases than anything available to people on the internet.
It’s all a bit ‘we’ve had enough of experts’ to me rather than looking at the poor executive decisions that football clubs make.
posted on 16/5/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 7 minutes ago
I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price.
-
What do you mean? Are you saying Sancho and Antony came cheap?
If we bought them from PL they'd be 500 mill each?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have perfectly understood my point. Congratulations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh ?
Thanks 👍
posted on 16/5/23
“ I'd really like it if we start buying players before they come to the PL and quadruple in price”
Totally agree, we have often been linked with players who end up at mid table clubs and smash it. Often very obviously good players that are well known to be too talents too.
posted on 16/5/23
If Brighton are after him then we must buy him now
Page 1 of 1