Stay absolutely trouncing sack in the poll. Sense prevails (though not to say oppo fans haven’t propped that up).
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
If he starts as manager next season it will be an absolute embarrassment.
—
Not necessarily. Clubs are far too quick to get rid of managers, admittedly decent progress or progress of some kind is required, which isn’t exactly overly evident in this case. But still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So more falling out with players, more Onana and Antony and more crap football?
Great news 🙃
Thankfully I live in the real world and there's no chance he survives this season and gets a 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok his signings especially the clown goalkeeper have been mostly miss. But he got Dan go spot on, Ronaldo possibly too. Facked it up with ddg given who we’ve got now, but his hard line is arguably what we need with this bunch of pansies.
Giving rat boy captaincy in hindsight east a great plan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add... If we had a competent recruitment and footballing operation, we wouldn't have to lean on the manager's recommendations for signings. We signed ETH to coach the team. We didn't sign him to be head of recruitment or as chief scout. For me, any poor signings on his watch are primarily the fault of the club and lay at the door the owners for their total inability to put in place a competent footballing/recruitment operation.
I think Onana and Antony are outright poor, but if you need a RW and GK and you go to your new manager and ask him if he has any ideas, who are we expecting him to suggest? Our inability to shift deadwood is also a massive burden on any manager, as ultimately they have to manage a squad with duds and baggage and the dressing room issues that will inevitably cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting point on modern footy there. You’d expect a manager to have a big say on who’s signed, but as you point out a lot of the time it’s left to teams of analysts to find the player, and assess suitability. In a system with good analysts who understand the managers requirements that works. However, it is taking a slight step away from the managers own vision and assessments somewhat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously a manager should be consulted, but a combination of data analysis and good old fashioned long-term scouting of a player by people who are actually good at identifying a player and know what they're looking at is all it should really take. Needless to say that the above should be geared towards a certain brand of football, and managerial appointments should be similarly undertaken so as not to do what we did post Fergie and lurch from manager to manager with no consistency in their footballing styles. City nailed it; all their managers leading up to Pep played a quick, technical passing game and they signed players suited to that style.
ETH clearly wants us to play in a modern attacking way; pressing high, building from the back, overloading the forward areas etc. He's said himself that he can't do what he did with Ajax with this current set of players. Initially I felt that statement was a little dubious though increasingly I think he has a point. What worried me about that statement more than anything though is that I don't want the former Ajax manager to come to United and try and implement something that didn't land him the job in the first place. What I want to see is him commit to implementing the style that won trophies in Holland and had Ajax trading blows with Europe's best in the CL, with the recruitment operation committed to building a squad that is suited to those needs and that remains coherent as a collective if/when a new manager comes in.
Stay only because there is nobody out there that is gonna do any better to be honest
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
If he starts as manager next season it will be an absolute embarrassment.
—
Not necessarily. Clubs are far too quick to get rid of managers, admittedly decent progress or progress of some kind is required, which isn’t exactly overly evident in this case. But still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So more falling out with players, more Onana and Antony and more crap football?
Great news 🙃
Thankfully I live in the real world and there's no chance he survives this season and gets a 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok his signings especially the clown goalkeeper have been mostly miss. But he got Dan go spot on, Ronaldo possibly too. Facked it up with ddg given who we’ve got now, but his hard line is arguably what we need with this bunch of pansies.
Giving rat boy captaincy in hindsight east a great plan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add... If we had a competent recruitment and footballing operation, we wouldn't have to lean on the manager's recommendations for signings. We signed ETH to coach the team. We didn't sign him to be head of recruitment or as chief scout. For me, any poor signings on his watch are primarily the fault of the club and lay at the door the owners for their total inability to put in place a competent footballing/recruitment operation.
I think Onana and Antony are outright poor, but if you need a RW and GK and you go to your new manager and ask him if he has any ideas, who are we expecting him to suggest? Our inability to shift deadwood is also a massive burden on any manager, as ultimately they have to manage a squad with duds and baggage and the dressing room issues that will inevitably cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting point on modern footy there. You’d expect a manager to have a big say on who’s signed, but as you point out a lot of the time it’s left to teams of analysts to find the player, and assess suitability. In a system with good analysts who understand the managers requirements that works. However, it is taking a slight step away from the managers own vision and assessments somewhat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously a manager should be consulted, but a combination of data analysis and good old fashioned long-term scouting of a player by people who are actually good at identifying a player and know what they're looking at is all it should really take. Needless to say that the above should be geared towards a certain brand of football, and managerial appointments should be similarly undertaken so as not to do what we did post Fergie and lurch from manager to manager with no consistency in their footballing styles. City nailed it; all their managers leading up to Pep played a quick, technical passing game and they signed players suited to that style.
ETH clearly wants us to play in a modern attacking way; pressing high, building from the back, overloading the forward areas etc. He's said himself that he can't do what he did with Ajax with this current set of players. Initially I felt that statement was a little dubious though increasingly I think he has a point. What worried me about that statement more than anything though is that I don't want the former Ajax manager to come to United and try and implement something that didn't land him the job in the first place. What I want to see is him commit to implementing the style that won trophies in Holland and had Ajax trading blows with Europe's best in the CL, with the recruitment operation committed to building a squad that is suited to those needs and that remains coherent as a collective if/when a new manager comes in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
Thought he was the one to bring the good times back?
Should have stuck with Ole.
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as anything Baz, I think the way football operations was starting to shift and evolve at clubs coincided with around the time Fergie left. It really did set us quite far behind. As other clubs started to develop and restructure their footballing operations, we were suddenly without the greatest club manager we'll ever have, David Gill left as well, and there was no foresight from up above or strategy in place to modernise after Fergie. We spent those first couple of post-Fergie years trying to operate the old way, but with significantly less competence upstairs. Then we started throwing good money at bad under Woodward's "Disneyland for adults" approach to sporting operations and now we are where we are.
It takes real dedication to get a sporting institution like United to derail as hard as it has for a full decade and counting...
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as anything Baz, I think the way football operations was starting to shift and evolve at clubs coincided with around the time Fergie left. It really did set us quite far behind. As other clubs started to develop and restructure their footballing operations, we were suddenly without the greatest club manager we'll ever have, David Gill left as well, and there was no foresight from up above or strategy in place to modernise after Fergie. We spent those first couple of post-Fergie years trying to operate the old way, but with significantly less competence upstairs. Then we started throwing good money at bad under Woodward's "Disneyland for adults" approach to sporting operations and now we are where we are.
It takes real dedication to get a sporting institution like United to derail as hard as it has for a full decade and counting...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are blockbuster movies in a world that’s moved to Netflix, a Polaroid in the advent of digital sd cards. Sounds about right. But if you look at some clubs, like Ajax, they’ve nearly always had it right, top to bottom, it’s all geared correctly. The whole things a tuned system (obvs excluding the last couple of years) That’s what we need.
Thought this was a simple stay or go not s theological discussion,
Hull to Rotterdam Ferry booked with priority cabin access for comfort, no need to be nasty.
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 9 hours, 39 minutes ago
Stay only because there is nobody out there that is gonna do any better to be honest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Freshly cooked rubbish
comment by The God Fowler (U2538)
posted 9 hours, 37 minutes ago
Thought he was the one to bring the good times back?
Should have stuck with Ole
‐‐---------------------------
I am probably in a vast minority, but yes we should have!
Good article Baz, but sorry I just had to one star it.
Eric in!
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
I'm genuinely gutted. It's not going to happen under ETH. That doesn't mean I'm unhappy with that standards he's attempted to enforce against a horrible dressing room though. Sancho is a dreadful example of "Disneyland,* culture and I've stuck by ETH on that.
.
And I'm hopeful that whilst his players have absolutely fxxxked him, shamefully, that standards have been set and once SJR gets control of football we'll not see the next manager get hung out to dry.
Make no mistake though, Jadon Sancho is a piece of sheeeeeet. And if and when ETH goes, he needs gone too
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. It's ridiculous to think a new manager will cure us of our many ails. The club has been run as a plaything for players for a long long time now.
Managers go, the ethos of looking for shortcuts and finding the easy way out is ingrained at this point. I look forward to Luckhurst leaking how our players just don't care, how wearing that United shirt is just money.
I'm just disgusted because this football club means a lot to me and it means so little to those wearing that badge.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s what I said you illiterate buffoon.
Grow up.
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
These shysters are going to Anfield this day next week. How many are we going to lose by? Doesn't bear thinking about
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 3 minutes ago
These shysters are going to Anfield this day next week. How many are we going to lose by? Doesn't bear thinking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In years gone by, I might feel optimistic and feel that a performance is due.
But with this defence, the lack of protection in wide areas and the total lack of effort, it could be messy and job loss material.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can’t just assume because one manager has one particular issue that it applies every time, to every manager. That’s just really daft. It’s obvious he’s having issues handling the big names, so it’s not a huge leap for anyone with half an ounce of common sense to suggest he’s out of his depth at this point in his career.
Now I know you live to be a contrarian, and that is an extremely sad hobby to have. So maybe just run along and disappear again. Be best for everyone 👍
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can’t just assume because one manager has one particular issue that it applies every time, to every manager. That’s just really daft. It’s obvious he’s having issues handling the big names, so it’s not a huge leap for anyone with half an ounce of common sense to suggest he’s out of his depth at this point in his career.
Now I know you live to be a contrarian, and that is an extremely sad hobby to have. So maybe just run along and disappear again. Be best for everyone 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not assuming anything. I’m watching what’s happening at the club and seeing the issues it has.
Those issues have led to all sorts of managers having a problem - including some of the most experienced in the world.
The idea that suddenly these don’t apply and it’s all down to his inexperience is laughably stupid.
You just like the sound of the narrative so you’re trying to make the facts fit, and now you sound like a total berk.
When you listen to all the various past players on multiple media platforms talk about UTD and SAF you can tell immediately that the players played second fiddle to the manager.
The overall message you hear is "the club".
No manager can resolve UTD issues unless we go back to that model.
It's our own undoing. Long term contracts with huge money for players who haven't done anything at the club.
Can anyone honestly, hand on heart say that if they had a 5 year 350k a week contract they would not thinking they've made it? Now where's your motivation?
Pep is regarded as a genius. Yet it's clear his treble winning players think they've done it and are currently looking lackadaisical.
Fwiw I still think ETH is the right type of manager. Simply because how he dealt with Ronaldo and now Sancho.
Problem is it's not 1 or 2. Can he really drop Bruno and rashford and martial et al? And play some of the kids?
I'm not convinced he is being allowed to and I think he wants to.
Sign in if you want to comment
Eth. A simple poll part 2.
Page 2 of 4
posted on 9/12/23
Stay absolutely trouncing sack in the poll. Sense prevails (though not to say oppo fans haven’t propped that up).
posted on 9/12/23
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
If he starts as manager next season it will be an absolute embarrassment.
—
Not necessarily. Clubs are far too quick to get rid of managers, admittedly decent progress or progress of some kind is required, which isn’t exactly overly evident in this case. But still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So more falling out with players, more Onana and Antony and more crap football?
Great news 🙃
Thankfully I live in the real world and there's no chance he survives this season and gets a 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok his signings especially the clown goalkeeper have been mostly miss. But he got Dan go spot on, Ronaldo possibly too. Facked it up with ddg given who we’ve got now, but his hard line is arguably what we need with this bunch of pansies.
Giving rat boy captaincy in hindsight east a great plan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add... If we had a competent recruitment and footballing operation, we wouldn't have to lean on the manager's recommendations for signings. We signed ETH to coach the team. We didn't sign him to be head of recruitment or as chief scout. For me, any poor signings on his watch are primarily the fault of the club and lay at the door the owners for their total inability to put in place a competent footballing/recruitment operation.
I think Onana and Antony are outright poor, but if you need a RW and GK and you go to your new manager and ask him if he has any ideas, who are we expecting him to suggest? Our inability to shift deadwood is also a massive burden on any manager, as ultimately they have to manage a squad with duds and baggage and the dressing room issues that will inevitably cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting point on modern footy there. You’d expect a manager to have a big say on who’s signed, but as you point out a lot of the time it’s left to teams of analysts to find the player, and assess suitability. In a system with good analysts who understand the managers requirements that works. However, it is taking a slight step away from the managers own vision and assessments somewhat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously a manager should be consulted, but a combination of data analysis and good old fashioned long-term scouting of a player by people who are actually good at identifying a player and know what they're looking at is all it should really take. Needless to say that the above should be geared towards a certain brand of football, and managerial appointments should be similarly undertaken so as not to do what we did post Fergie and lurch from manager to manager with no consistency in their footballing styles. City nailed it; all their managers leading up to Pep played a quick, technical passing game and they signed players suited to that style.
ETH clearly wants us to play in a modern attacking way; pressing high, building from the back, overloading the forward areas etc. He's said himself that he can't do what he did with Ajax with this current set of players. Initially I felt that statement was a little dubious though increasingly I think he has a point. What worried me about that statement more than anything though is that I don't want the former Ajax manager to come to United and try and implement something that didn't land him the job in the first place. What I want to see is him commit to implementing the style that won trophies in Holland and had Ajax trading blows with Europe's best in the CL, with the recruitment operation committed to building a squad that is suited to those needs and that remains coherent as a collective if/when a new manager comes in.
posted on 9/12/23
Stay only because there is nobody out there that is gonna do any better to be honest
posted on 9/12/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
posted 3 minutes ago
If he starts as manager next season it will be an absolute embarrassment.
—
Not necessarily. Clubs are far too quick to get rid of managers, admittedly decent progress or progress of some kind is required, which isn’t exactly overly evident in this case. But still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So more falling out with players, more Onana and Antony and more crap football?
Great news 🙃
Thankfully I live in the real world and there's no chance he survives this season and gets a 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok his signings especially the clown goalkeeper have been mostly miss. But he got Dan go spot on, Ronaldo possibly too. Facked it up with ddg given who we’ve got now, but his hard line is arguably what we need with this bunch of pansies.
Giving rat boy captaincy in hindsight east a great plan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to add... If we had a competent recruitment and footballing operation, we wouldn't have to lean on the manager's recommendations for signings. We signed ETH to coach the team. We didn't sign him to be head of recruitment or as chief scout. For me, any poor signings on his watch are primarily the fault of the club and lay at the door the owners for their total inability to put in place a competent footballing/recruitment operation.
I think Onana and Antony are outright poor, but if you need a RW and GK and you go to your new manager and ask him if he has any ideas, who are we expecting him to suggest? Our inability to shift deadwood is also a massive burden on any manager, as ultimately they have to manage a squad with duds and baggage and the dressing room issues that will inevitably cause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s an interesting point on modern footy there. You’d expect a manager to have a big say on who’s signed, but as you point out a lot of the time it’s left to teams of analysts to find the player, and assess suitability. In a system with good analysts who understand the managers requirements that works. However, it is taking a slight step away from the managers own vision and assessments somewhat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously a manager should be consulted, but a combination of data analysis and good old fashioned long-term scouting of a player by people who are actually good at identifying a player and know what they're looking at is all it should really take. Needless to say that the above should be geared towards a certain brand of football, and managerial appointments should be similarly undertaken so as not to do what we did post Fergie and lurch from manager to manager with no consistency in their footballing styles. City nailed it; all their managers leading up to Pep played a quick, technical passing game and they signed players suited to that style.
ETH clearly wants us to play in a modern attacking way; pressing high, building from the back, overloading the forward areas etc. He's said himself that he can't do what he did with Ajax with this current set of players. Initially I felt that statement was a little dubious though increasingly I think he has a point. What worried me about that statement more than anything though is that I don't want the former Ajax manager to come to United and try and implement something that didn't land him the job in the first place. What I want to see is him commit to implementing the style that won trophies in Holland and had Ajax trading blows with Europe's best in the CL, with the recruitment operation committed to building a squad that is suited to those needs and that remains coherent as a collective if/when a new manager comes in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
posted on 9/12/23
Thought he was the one to bring the good times back?
Should have stuck with Ole.
posted on 9/12/23
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
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As much as anything Baz, I think the way football operations was starting to shift and evolve at clubs coincided with around the time Fergie left. It really did set us quite far behind. As other clubs started to develop and restructure their footballing operations, we were suddenly without the greatest club manager we'll ever have, David Gill left as well, and there was no foresight from up above or strategy in place to modernise after Fergie. We spent those first couple of post-Fergie years trying to operate the old way, but with significantly less competence upstairs. Then we started throwing good money at bad under Woodward's "Disneyland for adults" approach to sporting operations and now we are where we are.
It takes real dedication to get a sporting institution like United to derail as hard as it has for a full decade and counting...
posted on 9/12/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by >💲Baz tard🦍+❄️=? (U19119)
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I’m inclined to agree with that. He doesn’t have the tried and tested Ajax infrastructure to fall back on. It’s often that somewhat unheralded part of club set ups that yields the largest return. Perhaps the success of saf, and his demonic drive and attention to detail is partly to blame, because without him the rest isn’t there, or not coherently there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as anything Baz, I think the way football operations was starting to shift and evolve at clubs coincided with around the time Fergie left. It really did set us quite far behind. As other clubs started to develop and restructure their footballing operations, we were suddenly without the greatest club manager we'll ever have, David Gill left as well, and there was no foresight from up above or strategy in place to modernise after Fergie. We spent those first couple of post-Fergie years trying to operate the old way, but with significantly less competence upstairs. Then we started throwing good money at bad under Woodward's "Disneyland for adults" approach to sporting operations and now we are where we are.
It takes real dedication to get a sporting institution like United to derail as hard as it has for a full decade and counting...
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We are blockbuster movies in a world that’s moved to Netflix, a Polaroid in the advent of digital sd cards. Sounds about right. But if you look at some clubs, like Ajax, they’ve nearly always had it right, top to bottom, it’s all geared correctly. The whole things a tuned system (obvs excluding the last couple of years) That’s what we need.
posted on 9/12/23
Thought this was a simple stay or go not s theological discussion,
Hull to Rotterdam Ferry booked with priority cabin access for comfort, no need to be nasty.
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 9 hours, 39 minutes ago
Stay only because there is nobody out there that is gonna do any better to be honest
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Freshly cooked rubbish
posted on 10/12/23
comment by The God Fowler (U2538)
posted 9 hours, 37 minutes ago
Thought he was the one to bring the good times back?
Should have stuck with Ole
‐‐---------------------------
I am probably in a vast minority, but yes we should have!
posted on 10/12/23
Good article Baz, but sorry I just had to one star it.
Eric in!
posted on 10/12/23
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
posted on 10/12/23
I'm genuinely gutted. It's not going to happen under ETH. That doesn't mean I'm unhappy with that standards he's attempted to enforce against a horrible dressing room though. Sancho is a dreadful example of "Disneyland,* culture and I've stuck by ETH on that.
.
And I'm hopeful that whilst his players have absolutely fxxxked him, shamefully, that standards have been set and once SJR gets control of football we'll not see the next manager get hung out to dry.
Make no mistake though, Jadon Sancho is a piece of sheeeeeet. And if and when ETH goes, he needs gone too
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
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This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
True. It's ridiculous to think a new manager will cure us of our many ails. The club has been run as a plaything for players for a long long time now.
Managers go, the ethos of looking for shortcuts and finding the easy way out is ingrained at this point. I look forward to Luckhurst leaking how our players just don't care, how wearing that United shirt is just money.
I'm just disgusted because this football club means a lot to me and it means so little to those wearing that badge.
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour ago
I think it’s a simple case of him being out of his depth tbh. He looked a decent choice on paper, but he clearly hasn’t coped with the step up from Ajax and the comfort zone he clearly operated in. In a league like the Eredevisie any flaws in a decent manager are easily papered over. In the PL, if you don’t get it right there’s nowhere to hide, you’ll get found out. The equivalent to Bournemouth in that league are teams like Sittard and Almere City, absolute poverty that would struggle in the Championship. A proper ‘world class’ manager like Klopp would be able to make the necessary adjustments and use what he has available, but even then only for a limited time. No manager can operate successfully long term under your current structure. But I think most of you know that…..
I don’t think ETH is a bad manager, and I think he still has potential to manage a big club. Others like Emery, who got bombed out of Arsenal, went away and learned from his experience and is now doing great things at Villa. I think the genuine big clubs see potential and throw them in, and then throw them under the bus by not backing them properly by making sure the right structure is in place. Young managers shouldn’t skip so many rungs on the career ladder, not many can make such a big step up successfully.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is utter nonsense.
We’ve seen with all sorts of managers - including highly experienced ones - that United has bigger problems than a manager can overcome.
To pin this on a lack of experience ignores all of the other managers that have gone before and the very clear problems at the club right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s what I said you illiterate buffoon.
Grow up.
posted on 10/12/23
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
posted on 10/12/23
These shysters are going to Anfield this day next week. How many are we going to lose by? Doesn't bear thinking about
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
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That’s not all I said though is it?
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
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That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
posted on 10/12/23
comment by merrysupersteve (relaxed about the situation) (U1132)
posted 3 minutes ago
These shysters are going to Anfield this day next week. How many are we going to lose by? Doesn't bear thinking about
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In years gone by, I might feel optimistic and feel that a performance is due.
But with this defence, the lack of protection in wide areas and the total lack of effort, it could be messy and job loss material.
posted on 10/12/23
Welcome back winsty!
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can’t just assume because one manager has one particular issue that it applies every time, to every manager. That’s just really daft. It’s obvious he’s having issues handling the big names, so it’s not a huge leap for anyone with half an ounce of common sense to suggest he’s out of his depth at this point in his career.
Now I know you live to be a contrarian, and that is an extremely sad hobby to have. So maybe just run along and disappear again. Be best for everyone 👍
posted on 10/12/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 15 minutes ago
You literally said it’s because ETH is out of his depth.
You’re a fully certified moron, aren’t you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s not all I said though is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the main thrust of your point, that he’s out of his depth and too inexperienced.
But this is nonsense.
We have no idea about if those are factors, because as we’ve seen, experienced managers have had the same problems at United.
What don’t you understand?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can’t just assume because one manager has one particular issue that it applies every time, to every manager. That’s just really daft. It’s obvious he’s having issues handling the big names, so it’s not a huge leap for anyone with half an ounce of common sense to suggest he’s out of his depth at this point in his career.
Now I know you live to be a contrarian, and that is an extremely sad hobby to have. So maybe just run along and disappear again. Be best for everyone 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not assuming anything. I’m watching what’s happening at the club and seeing the issues it has.
Those issues have led to all sorts of managers having a problem - including some of the most experienced in the world.
The idea that suddenly these don’t apply and it’s all down to his inexperience is laughably stupid.
You just like the sound of the narrative so you’re trying to make the facts fit, and now you sound like a total berk.
posted on 10/12/23
When you listen to all the various past players on multiple media platforms talk about UTD and SAF you can tell immediately that the players played second fiddle to the manager.
The overall message you hear is "the club".
No manager can resolve UTD issues unless we go back to that model.
It's our own undoing. Long term contracts with huge money for players who haven't done anything at the club.
Can anyone honestly, hand on heart say that if they had a 5 year 350k a week contract they would not thinking they've made it? Now where's your motivation?
Pep is regarded as a genius. Yet it's clear his treble winning players think they've done it and are currently looking lackadaisical.
Fwiw I still think ETH is the right type of manager. Simply because how he dealt with Ronaldo and now Sancho.
Problem is it's not 1 or 2. Can he really drop Bruno and rashford and martial et al? And play some of the kids?
I'm not convinced he is being allowed to and I think he wants to.
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