Cheers for the comments.
There are, of course, players I'd also like to keep for various reasons but there are also good reasons to let them go to IMO. I'm just a bit surprised when I thought about it that only four would be my non-negotiables. We need to up that number a lot.
What I suppose it does highlight is that we've not built a compatible squad. Of the four in my OP two are youth and two ar ETH signings. So, perhaps, when I have been critical of the manager I have been a little harsh because when you break it down he doesn't have a great hand. The hand he does have though he needs to play better.
This Summer I feel we need to add a GK, CB & LW to the starting 11, and put a few others on notice that they need to be better / more reliable or face being replaced in the following windows.
I posted on VCs article a list of players that need to leave so we can improve.
It pretty much follows the OP.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 7 hours, 3 minutes ago
That is shocking with the money you guys have spent.
But, it's completely accurate. That's astonishing that you've only got 4 players you know you can rely on and two are academy products aren't they?
I still think Rashford if he's in a happier camp is at times unplayable. He's picked up a lot of bad habits from the likes of Pogba though when it comes to tracking back. Everyone else you need to get rid of. Not sure how you do that though because they're all on big wages and lengthy contracts. You've also got Sancho who is certain to be sent back in the summer as he's getting torn apart over there. I don't even know how you flog these players. They're worthless. The very fact that the next person on the 'keep' list for me would be McTominay says everything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tired of seeing this narrative with Rashford. The "if he was in a happier squad then he'd perform better" narrative. You're suppose to perform well regardless, aren't you? Spurs have had plenty of dodgy seasons but Kane always performed. Rashford is just rubbish, that's why he his unable to up his game while the team is suffering. His purple patches are down to him turning up when he wants rather than when the team is in a good place.
Weak and useless minded player who should be nowhere near the England team and we can only pray Safegate has the sense not to include him. It's honestly no exaggeration to say he'd be 10th or lower in the current pecking order.
Get rid and play the kids and build from there. United won't get relegated and missing out on European football for a couple of seasons will be worth it in the long term.
comment by Nø Løve (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
Get rid and play the kids and build from there. United won't get relegated and missing out on European football for a couple of seasons will be worth it in the long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been on this camp for a while. The pile of "experience" we've piled have shown us nothing.
Hojlund
Mainoo
Garnacho
Lisando
SHaw?AWB? Dalot?
We can't really get rid of everyone else so I can just add a few preferences
Rashford over Bruno. At this point, Bruno has been playing regularly for 2 years now and its just becoming depressing. I think he's jaded and I think the players tired of playing with him.
Maguire over Varane. I don't like Varane for his limited passing range, Most managers in todays football will have the same issue.
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
Every single youngster we loaned out should be in this team now. Nothing has shown me that our highly paid average players have anything to offer.
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 8 hours, 51 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 13 seconds ago
Everyone will pretty much have Martinez, Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund as key players. But we're not just going to dump everyone else. There will be a gradual change, and I would be shocked if we don't see an improvement in some players who are a bit iffy right now.
But we will only get limited (if any) progress under ETH and until that is rectified, we won't get anywhere fast
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a hypothetical question, designed to identify who we think is good enough for what we want United to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we all pretty much come up with the same 4 players. But most of us recognise there are a number of what-ifs
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 7 hours, 23 minutes ago
Cheers for the comments.
There are, of course, players I'd also like to keep for various reasons but there are also good reasons to let them go to IMO. I'm just a bit surprised when I thought about it that only four would be my non-negotiables. We need to up that number a lot.
What I suppose it does highlight is that we've not built a compatible squad. Of the four in my OP two are youth and two ar ETH signings. So, perhaps, when I have been critical of the manager I have been a little harsh because when you break it down he doesn't have a great hand. The hand he does have though he needs to play better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think anyone has been harsh on ETH. Look at the players that have come in that haven't worked out.
Injuries are part and parcel of football and it's up to ETH to galvanise the squad and get them playing together.
We still don't really play in a certain way. We have small glimpses of hope, but that shouldn't hide how poor we have been at times.
This isn't about bashing ETH for the sake of it - how I badly wish he was doing a great job, prove me wrong and be the manager who I thought he would be. But it's a case of thanks for trying Erik, but he just doesn't have what it takes. It's a tough job, we all recognise it, but let's also recognise that he is not the answer.
One thing in common with the four you picked... They all play their heart out in every game.
For similar reasons, i'd keep McT and AWB as a squad options (If AWB can get some fitness going).
I'd also keep onana and mount to see if they can build on a difficult first season.
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
Watch his interviews and watch Klopperty this should give you the answer. This manager lacks charisma and big personality. These traits are still required to be successful at Manchester United make no mistake about that.
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
With Amrabat being on loan, we have the luxury of looking at whether we can upgrade on him, without needing to find a buyer first. In terms of profile, we need a player like Amrabat who is an intelligent space occupier / water carrier, but I don't think his quality and athleticism are sufficient to be more than a squad player at the level we aspire to. Casemiro and Eriksen should be moved on for sure, either way. McTominay shouldn't be considered as a midfielder, but as a Plan B second striker to crash the box, and I don't have a problem with him staying in the squad on that basis.
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Important question. I do think United haven't paid enough attention to mental attributes in the players we recruit over the last few years. However, when a team looks ponderous and lacking in aggression / proactivity, I tend to think this is more to do with the momentary hesitation that comes from tactical uncertainty or lack of cohesion. You see teams (and especially this United team) switch wildly from looking very up for it to looking diffident and passive not only from game to game, but within periods of the same match. To me it doesn't make sense to think that their motivation levels fluctuate, but that the collective sense of confidence in what they are doing is fragile, and easily shaken. Guardiola and Klopp are undoubtedly great at man management, but their teams are also really well drilled on the automatisms and choreographed movements they deploy in every phase of play.
Just from the outside looking in I’d focus on attitude over talent with your current players and gradually bin the rest.
I said at the time I think that was part of the thinking of bringing in Mount for example, he’s a top pro, and I’ve read numerous reports that ETH has simply been trying to raise professional standards (hence falling out with some players).
Watching Rashford ‘press’ against Barkley was simply unprofessional and I suspect he’s why Amar doesn’t get games because his off the ball work is apparently not great and you can’t have two of those in the same side at this level.
I don't understand why anybody would "100% keep Rashford". He's one of the few who has potential to generate some decent income (maybe he doesn't with his study salary) and he's been pretty unprofessional this season, he's cannot be a good influence on the young lads around him.
Nobody should be safe. And if Ineos are serious about raising the standards at the club again then that should be coming from the top down. For far too long we’ve given players far too much rope.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
With Amrabat being on loan, we have the luxury of looking at whether we can upgrade on him, without needing to find a buyer first. In terms of profile, we need a player like Amrabat who is an intelligent space occupier / water carrier, but I don't think his quality and athleticism are sufficient to be more than a squad player at the level we aspire to. Casemiro and Eriksen should be moved on for sure, either way. McTominay shouldn't be considered as a midfielder, but as a Plan B second striker to crash the box, and I don't have a problem with him staying in the squad on that basis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are messing around with a lot of average but we do have one need which Amrabat suits the most (at least to me, not ETH)
The scouting unit has never been more important than it is now
Martinez
Mainoo
Garnacho
Hojlund
Shaw*
*the injuries are the question mark for me
The above players are those who I would happily see start going forward.
The likes of Amad, Forson etc.. I'm not including as they haven't really had a chance yet and they wouldn't be starters at present.
Also can't really judge Mount as he hasn't really played and not sure where he will play at present.
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cus... (U6374)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
Just from the outside looking in I’d focus on attitude over talent with your current players and gradually bin the rest.
I said at the time I think that was part of the thinking of bringing in Mount for example, he’s a top pro, and I’ve read numerous reports that ETH has simply been trying to raise professional standards (hence falling out with some players).
Watching Rashford ‘press’ against Barkley was simply unprofessional and I suspect he’s why Amar doesn’t get games because his off the ball work is apparently not great and you can’t have two of those in the same side at this level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that Rashford Barkley press really jumped out as awful and simply an attitude thing.
Now Rashford may be the sort who needs to be managed and motivated perfectly to get the best out of him, and that he doesnt have that drive internally to deliver his best without being motivated by external factors. But he's been under several managers now and never delivers consistency.
Bruno seems more committed but not focussed or disciplined enough to be trusted within the system of play.
I would agree with RR that if players have tactical uncertainty then they will likely underperform and I would put Bruno in that camp, but not Rashford. Bruno would love the freedom of a roaming no.10 but that's nots what is being asked of him. From the outside, Rashford looks like a player who will not try hard enough and thinks that getting a goal proves everyone wrong and that's all he needs to do.
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
Watch his interviews and watch Klopperty this should give you the answer. This manager lacks charisma and big personality. These traits are still required to be successful at Manchester United make no mistake about that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
Managing Utd is not easy. Look at our history - pretty much 2 very good managers, the odd decent one. ETH was a good choice, but it's not worked out. It's a big 'if', but if we can get the right guy in, these players could completely change. It shouldn't be like that, ideally the players should be mentally stronger, but that's just not how football generally works. The buck always rests with the manager
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can even add Pep to the mix, anybody who has watched the City documentary, the bloke talks in riddles, not much different to ETH to he frank. I wouldn't say Pep is that charismatic but he's built a winning culture.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not simply charisma, but being in tune with your players. It can come in different ways for managers. You have the passion of say Klopp or Arteta. Ang seems a bit calmer, more of a father figure almost. Wenger had a calmness about him, but you could tell the players truly believed in him.
But you look at our style of play (if there is one), just the body language of the players, whatever it is they need, ETH isn't providing it. Sometimes you just look at it and it doesn't feel right.
How many times in the last couple of years, even last season, did we think for a whole game, yeah, I can see how we're playing, that's what we want to do. Even when we won, it seemed more due to individual brilliance rather than a great cohesive team performance.
There seems to be no progression, just going round in circles.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 24 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger gave his Arsenal team "unbelievable belief" to quote the genius Merson.
For me its about inspiration and that doesnt necessarily mean charisma.
I also think Pep is a little different because everyone know Pep means success, so if you cannot get on board with Pep then you will not likely succeed anywhere. Because of this, when he speaks everyone listens.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can even add Pep to the mix, anybody who has watched the City documentary, the bloke talks in riddles, not much different to ETH to he frank. I wouldn't say Pep is that charismatic but he's built a winning culture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was just going to mention Pep. I don’t even think Kliperty is that charismatic either. What both excel at is getting their players to believe in their system and run through brick walls for them.
Sign in if you want to comment
Which players would you 100% keep
Page 3 of 4
posted on 26/2/24
Cheers for the comments.
There are, of course, players I'd also like to keep for various reasons but there are also good reasons to let them go to IMO. I'm just a bit surprised when I thought about it that only four would be my non-negotiables. We need to up that number a lot.
What I suppose it does highlight is that we've not built a compatible squad. Of the four in my OP two are youth and two ar ETH signings. So, perhaps, when I have been critical of the manager I have been a little harsh because when you break it down he doesn't have a great hand. The hand he does have though he needs to play better.
posted on 27/2/24
This Summer I feel we need to add a GK, CB & LW to the starting 11, and put a few others on notice that they need to be better / more reliable or face being replaced in the following windows.
posted on 27/2/24
I posted on VCs article a list of players that need to leave so we can improve.
It pretty much follows the OP.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 7 hours, 3 minutes ago
That is shocking with the money you guys have spent.
But, it's completely accurate. That's astonishing that you've only got 4 players you know you can rely on and two are academy products aren't they?
I still think Rashford if he's in a happier camp is at times unplayable. He's picked up a lot of bad habits from the likes of Pogba though when it comes to tracking back. Everyone else you need to get rid of. Not sure how you do that though because they're all on big wages and lengthy contracts. You've also got Sancho who is certain to be sent back in the summer as he's getting torn apart over there. I don't even know how you flog these players. They're worthless. The very fact that the next person on the 'keep' list for me would be McTominay says everything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tired of seeing this narrative with Rashford. The "if he was in a happier squad then he'd perform better" narrative. You're suppose to perform well regardless, aren't you? Spurs have had plenty of dodgy seasons but Kane always performed. Rashford is just rubbish, that's why he his unable to up his game while the team is suffering. His purple patches are down to him turning up when he wants rather than when the team is in a good place.
Weak and useless minded player who should be nowhere near the England team and we can only pray Safegate has the sense not to include him. It's honestly no exaggeration to say he'd be 10th or lower in the current pecking order.
posted on 27/2/24
Get rid and play the kids and build from there. United won't get relegated and missing out on European football for a couple of seasons will be worth it in the long term.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Nø Løve (U1282)
posted 14 minutes ago
Get rid and play the kids and build from there. United won't get relegated and missing out on European football for a couple of seasons will be worth it in the long term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been on this camp for a while. The pile of "experience" we've piled have shown us nothing.
Hojlund
Mainoo
Garnacho
Lisando
SHaw?AWB? Dalot?
We can't really get rid of everyone else so I can just add a few preferences
Rashford over Bruno. At this point, Bruno has been playing regularly for 2 years now and its just becoming depressing. I think he's jaded and I think the players tired of playing with him.
Maguire over Varane. I don't like Varane for his limited passing range, Most managers in todays football will have the same issue.
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
Every single youngster we loaned out should be in this team now. Nothing has shown me that our highly paid average players have anything to offer.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 8 hours, 51 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 13 seconds ago
Everyone will pretty much have Martinez, Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund as key players. But we're not just going to dump everyone else. There will be a gradual change, and I would be shocked if we don't see an improvement in some players who are a bit iffy right now.
But we will only get limited (if any) progress under ETH and until that is rectified, we won't get anywhere fast
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a hypothetical question, designed to identify who we think is good enough for what we want United to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And we all pretty much come up with the same 4 players. But most of us recognise there are a number of what-ifs
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 7 hours, 23 minutes ago
Cheers for the comments.
There are, of course, players I'd also like to keep for various reasons but there are also good reasons to let them go to IMO. I'm just a bit surprised when I thought about it that only four would be my non-negotiables. We need to up that number a lot.
What I suppose it does highlight is that we've not built a compatible squad. Of the four in my OP two are youth and two ar ETH signings. So, perhaps, when I have been critical of the manager I have been a little harsh because when you break it down he doesn't have a great hand. The hand he does have though he needs to play better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think anyone has been harsh on ETH. Look at the players that have come in that haven't worked out.
Injuries are part and parcel of football and it's up to ETH to galvanise the squad and get them playing together.
We still don't really play in a certain way. We have small glimpses of hope, but that shouldn't hide how poor we have been at times.
This isn't about bashing ETH for the sake of it - how I badly wish he was doing a great job, prove me wrong and be the manager who I thought he would be. But it's a case of thanks for trying Erik, but he just doesn't have what it takes. It's a tough job, we all recognise it, but let's also recognise that he is not the answer.
posted on 27/2/24
One thing in common with the four you picked... They all play their heart out in every game.
For similar reasons, i'd keep McT and AWB as a squad options (If AWB can get some fitness going).
I'd also keep onana and mount to see if they can build on a difficult first season.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
Watch his interviews and watch Klopperty this should give you the answer. This manager lacks charisma and big personality. These traits are still required to be successful at Manchester United make no mistake about that.
posted on 27/2/24
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
With Amrabat being on loan, we have the luxury of looking at whether we can upgrade on him, without needing to find a buyer first. In terms of profile, we need a player like Amrabat who is an intelligent space occupier / water carrier, but I don't think his quality and athleticism are sufficient to be more than a squad player at the level we aspire to. Casemiro and Eriksen should be moved on for sure, either way. McTominay shouldn't be considered as a midfielder, but as a Plan B second striker to crash the box, and I don't have a problem with him staying in the squad on that basis.
posted on 27/2/24
Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
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Important question. I do think United haven't paid enough attention to mental attributes in the players we recruit over the last few years. However, when a team looks ponderous and lacking in aggression / proactivity, I tend to think this is more to do with the momentary hesitation that comes from tactical uncertainty or lack of cohesion. You see teams (and especially this United team) switch wildly from looking very up for it to looking diffident and passive not only from game to game, but within periods of the same match. To me it doesn't make sense to think that their motivation levels fluctuate, but that the collective sense of confidence in what they are doing is fragile, and easily shaken. Guardiola and Klopp are undoubtedly great at man management, but their teams are also really well drilled on the automatisms and choreographed movements they deploy in every phase of play.
posted on 27/2/24
Just from the outside looking in I’d focus on attitude over talent with your current players and gradually bin the rest.
I said at the time I think that was part of the thinking of bringing in Mount for example, he’s a top pro, and I’ve read numerous reports that ETH has simply been trying to raise professional standards (hence falling out with some players).
Watching Rashford ‘press’ against Barkley was simply unprofessional and I suspect he’s why Amar doesn’t get games because his off the ball work is apparently not great and you can’t have two of those in the same side at this level.
posted on 27/2/24
I don't understand why anybody would "100% keep Rashford". He's one of the few who has potential to generate some decent income (maybe he doesn't with his study salary) and he's been pretty unprofessional this season, he's cannot be a good influence on the young lads around him.
posted on 27/2/24
Nobody should be safe. And if Ineos are serious about raising the standards at the club again then that should be coming from the top down. For far too long we’ve given players far too much rope.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 22 minutes ago
Amrabat over Mason/Casemiro/McTominay/Eriksen. We will always need a midfielder who can kick people about before they run into attacking positions. Eriksen is dead to me.
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With Amrabat being on loan, we have the luxury of looking at whether we can upgrade on him, without needing to find a buyer first. In terms of profile, we need a player like Amrabat who is an intelligent space occupier / water carrier, but I don't think his quality and athleticism are sufficient to be more than a squad player at the level we aspire to. Casemiro and Eriksen should be moved on for sure, either way. McTominay shouldn't be considered as a midfielder, but as a Plan B second striker to crash the box, and I don't have a problem with him staying in the squad on that basis.
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We are messing around with a lot of average but we do have one need which Amrabat suits the most (at least to me, not ETH)
The scouting unit has never been more important than it is now
posted on 27/2/24
Martinez
Mainoo
Garnacho
Hojlund
Shaw*
*the injuries are the question mark for me
The above players are those who I would happily see start going forward.
The likes of Amad, Forson etc.. I'm not including as they haven't really had a chance yet and they wouldn't be starters at present.
Also can't really judge Mount as he hasn't really played and not sure where he will play at present.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cus... (U6374)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
Just from the outside looking in I’d focus on attitude over talent with your current players and gradually bin the rest.
I said at the time I think that was part of the thinking of bringing in Mount for example, he’s a top pro, and I’ve read numerous reports that ETH has simply been trying to raise professional standards (hence falling out with some players).
Watching Rashford ‘press’ against Barkley was simply unprofessional and I suspect he’s why Amar doesn’t get games because his off the ball work is apparently not great and you can’t have two of those in the same side at this level.
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Yeah, that Rashford Barkley press really jumped out as awful and simply an attitude thing.
Now Rashford may be the sort who needs to be managed and motivated perfectly to get the best out of him, and that he doesnt have that drive internally to deliver his best without being motivated by external factors. But he's been under several managers now and never delivers consistency.
Bruno seems more committed but not focussed or disciplined enough to be trusted within the system of play.
I would agree with RR that if players have tactical uncertainty then they will likely underperform and I would put Bruno in that camp, but not Rashford. Bruno would love the freedom of a roaming no.10 but that's nots what is being asked of him. From the outside, Rashford looks like a player who will not try hard enough and thinks that getting a goal proves everyone wrong and that's all he needs to do.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
Bruno and Rashford have been truly disastrous this season so I can see why so many would sell them but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they both end up staying and had decent seasons again next year.
It's not even like we will have lots of offers for them either. Most teams can't afford them and the ones that can probably don't need them. Unless either player fancies Saudi Arabia then I think they will still be Utd players.
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Do you think with players like this is is purely their attitude, particularly towards hard work and discipline, or is this down to the manager.
You would expect Klopp or Pep to get the very best out of them and be totally committed to what is demanded by the system, the likes of Arteta, Ange and even O'Neil at Wolves seem to be able to inspire their players to "run through walls".
Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
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Is ETH lacking this inspiration or are these types of players just simply not committed enough, with questionable, flaky attitudes?
Watch his interviews and watch Klopperty this should give you the answer. This manager lacks charisma and big personality. These traits are still required to be successful at Manchester United make no mistake about that.
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That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
Managing Utd is not easy. Look at our history - pretty much 2 very good managers, the odd decent one. ETH was a good choice, but it's not worked out. It's a big 'if', but if we can get the right guy in, these players could completely change. It shouldn't be like that, ideally the players should be mentally stronger, but that's just not how football generally works. The buck always rests with the manager
posted on 27/2/24
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
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Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
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Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
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Can even add Pep to the mix, anybody who has watched the City documentary, the bloke talks in riddles, not much different to ETH to he frank. I wouldn't say Pep is that charismatic but he's built a winning culture.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
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It's not simply charisma, but being in tune with your players. It can come in different ways for managers. You have the passion of say Klopp or Arteta. Ang seems a bit calmer, more of a father figure almost. Wenger had a calmness about him, but you could tell the players truly believed in him.
But you look at our style of play (if there is one), just the body language of the players, whatever it is they need, ETH isn't providing it. Sometimes you just look at it and it doesn't feel right.
How many times in the last couple of years, even last season, did we think for a whole game, yeah, I can see how we're playing, that's what we want to do. Even when we won, it seemed more due to individual brilliance rather than a great cohesive team performance.
There seems to be no progression, just going round in circles.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 24 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
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Wenger gave his Arsenal team "unbelievable belief" to quote the genius Merson.
For me its about inspiration and that doesnt necessarily mean charisma.
I also think Pep is a little different because everyone know Pep means success, so if you cannot get on board with Pep then you will not likely succeed anywhere. Because of this, when he speaks everyone listens.
posted on 27/2/24
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
That's pretty much it. ETH is hard working, but lacks a bit of X factor. You just don't get the sense that the players are truly with him. Klopp has it in buckets, so does Pep, even Arteta. Ang may have a simple approach, but his players are so with him and you can see he inspires them. We don't have that at Utd at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Charisma is useful but I believe we as fans both overstate its importance and are poorly equipped to diagnose how good managers are at transmitting it. Would we have concluded that Wenger was charismatic and good at motivating his teams from his demeanour on the sidelines and how he spoke in interviews? What about Ancelotti? I think we know he's a great man manager because of his success rather than because we can detect it through observation. As for Postecoglou, his teams aren't just keeping it simple, playing on vibes: he's stylistically quite progressive and wouldn't have improved Spurs this season if the tactical plan wasn't rigorous.
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Can even add Pep to the mix, anybody who has watched the City documentary, the bloke talks in riddles, not much different to ETH to he frank. I wouldn't say Pep is that charismatic but he's built a winning culture.
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I was just going to mention Pep. I don’t even think Kliperty is that charismatic either. What both excel at is getting their players to believe in their system and run through brick walls for them.
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