It's well known a certain section of the fanbase have little patience or the stomach for a change of philiosophy or process or whatever you want to call it.
The simplistic approach is always to sack the manager or blame Levy(which is deserved to an extent).
We have tried chopping and changing managers every season and mid season and we are still no better off.
Stick with Ange, back him in the window and start again.
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
We'd have all taken 5th at the start of the year but let's be real here. You can't just dismiss the title-winning form at the start of the year flattering where we currently sit. Our form since the Chelsea game back in November is 10th. That's a measure of where we truly are as a club and frankly it's woefully below par. If you play 10 blinding games and are poor for 24 after that, logic tells you that the data covering the most games is more accurate.
What we have to ask ourselves is are the goals we're conceding a product of individual error or tactical instruction from the manager? If it's the latter then we have a problem and I think it is. Teams know what we're going to do so they sit in and play long balls down the channels and play the percentages. VDV isn't going to get to them all so that's why we concede so many.
In our first season under Poch we started quite poorly and then gathered momentum as the season went on, navigated European games and got to a domestic cup final, all the while securing 5th in the league. Contrast that with Ange and whilst we started at a blistering pace, we've seen an alarming fall in performance and results aren't just inconsistent but, at times, embarrassing. That's all having had no European fixtures, and having bowed out of the domestic cups in the early rounds. If you were to apply all this to a graph, under Poch at this stage the arrow was pointing up. Under Ange it's pointing down so that's why, despite 5th being an acceptable expectation, it's not a true measure of where we are as a club.
I should add, I'm still very much Ange in and he needs the time to turn it around because frankly, who else is there? There's no point in changing now. We've got to stick to it but it depends how things go next year. If we're still playing the way we are by Christmas, I think he's in trouble personally.
I don't expect us to beat Sheff United or Burnley... Both will sit deep and probably look to score from set pieces.... We are the perfect opponent
As for all this 'brand of football" stuff.. Its total bollix..... Our brand of football is what we current play. We can't defend set pieces, leave massive gaps behind the FBs, have a ton of pointless possession and miss loads of chances..... Its been that way since November
Spurs fans need to live in the now, not the 1st 10 games of the season and not in some vague hope that we are gonna spend tons of money and everything will be better next year
This spurs squad is perfectly good enough to get CL Football this year given the competition. Its been poorly managed by Ange and a result a 5th place finish( or worse as is likely) should be viewed as a failure
Ange needs to be told this isnt good enough, set pieces matter and his job is to win games..... Same goes for the players
For the record I don't want Ange sacked... I want him to improve as a coach, man manager and tactician
I have said on other threads before we are better placed in the league than most expected me included. However it’s the way we lose no effort, desire, heart is shown each time.
If you lose 2-1 and you see effort and players trying you accept it as unlucky or whatever but we don’t lose that way…. It’s always mostly embarrassing.
We’ve had this issue for many years so not strictly just an Ange era problem.
Once I saw who we had brought in and without European football, I was kind of expecting a top 4 challenge and a decent cup run, even with Kane sold. I thought there'd be a bit of a boost among the team with this new manager and we got it, better than I expected, in the first 10 games. So yeah I expected more than we've given back.
It's the way we've ended the season that has rubbed fans up the wrong way more than anything I think. We're failing to create and failing to defend, even basic set pieces. Fans can't just be satisfied because we'll finish in the top 5. It's about the performance levels as well. In the season as a whole we've gone backwards so naturally the positivity starts leaving people.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 minutes ago
Once I saw who we had brought in and without European football, I was kind of expecting a top 4 challenge and a decent cup run, even with Kane sold. I thought there'd be a bit of a boost among the team with this new manager and we got it, better than I expected, in the first 10 games. So yeah I expected more than we've given back.
It's the way we've ended the season that has rubbed fans up the wrong way more than anything I think. We're failing to create and failing to defend, even basic set pieces. Fans can't just be satisfied because we'll finish in the top 5. It's about the performance levels as well. In the season as a whole we've gone backwards so naturally the positivity starts leaving people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well said
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
I personally think you've slightly overcompensated after having to endure Mourinho, Nuno & Conte. I'd get sick of him after awhile, the novelty would wear off for me, but I'm a bit of a tactics nerd.
Christ, now the Chelsea fans are giving us advice. We must have really hit rock bottom.
I think you're underestimating Ange's desire to win, Devil. He has his philosophy, sure, but he still wants success and he'll tweak and do what he needs to do to make that happen. He's not just a happy to play nice football kind of guy. I know it might seem like that on the backdrop of poor results but no one is more angry at what's happening more than him. I think it'll just take time.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Livid I'd say
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 3 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
dont feel strongly either way. I dont really care about league positions between 5 and 17.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Christ, now the Chelsea fans are giving us advice. We must have really hit rock bottom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Da Fuq do you know about it?
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 6 hours, 44 minutes ago
For the record I don't want Ange sacked... I want him to improve as a coach, man manager and tactician
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Da Fuq do you know about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
more than you...your club has been a laughing stock for like... forever
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 hours, 53 minutes ago
I think you're underestimating Ange's desire to win, Devil. He has his philosophy, sure, but he still wants success and he'll tweak and do what he needs to do to make that happen. He's not just a happy to play nice football kind of guy. I know it might seem like that on the backdrop of poor results but no one is more angry at what's happening more than him. I think it'll just take time.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't get that impression from him at all, he openly ducks anything tactical. Even in the post-match last night, the interviewer is really trying to get a proper answer from him about where he felt he went wrong & he's just not responding beyond reiterating "his message".
He doesn't seem to have an interest in building a complete team which (imo) should be every manager's ambition, and he seems to have zero interest in the opposition - Dier's comments, and his response, were very revealing to me. We had this with Sarri, fundamentalist manager who's only preoccupied with his team & style of play hoping to turn matches into a war of attrition, but doing this in the PL with so many tactically savvy managers is really hard.
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 22 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably although neither is the sort of thing we will brag to our children about.
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Who Expected Much Better Than This?
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posted on 3/5/24
It's well known a certain section of the fanbase have little patience or the stomach for a change of philiosophy or process or whatever you want to call it.
The simplistic approach is always to sack the manager or blame Levy(which is deserved to an extent).
We have tried chopping and changing managers every season and mid season and we are still no better off.
Stick with Ange, back him in the window and start again.
posted on 3/5/24
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
posted on 3/5/24
We'd have all taken 5th at the start of the year but let's be real here. You can't just dismiss the title-winning form at the start of the year flattering where we currently sit. Our form since the Chelsea game back in November is 10th. That's a measure of where we truly are as a club and frankly it's woefully below par. If you play 10 blinding games and are poor for 24 after that, logic tells you that the data covering the most games is more accurate.
What we have to ask ourselves is are the goals we're conceding a product of individual error or tactical instruction from the manager? If it's the latter then we have a problem and I think it is. Teams know what we're going to do so they sit in and play long balls down the channels and play the percentages. VDV isn't going to get to them all so that's why we concede so many.
In our first season under Poch we started quite poorly and then gathered momentum as the season went on, navigated European games and got to a domestic cup final, all the while securing 5th in the league. Contrast that with Ange and whilst we started at a blistering pace, we've seen an alarming fall in performance and results aren't just inconsistent but, at times, embarrassing. That's all having had no European fixtures, and having bowed out of the domestic cups in the early rounds. If you were to apply all this to a graph, under Poch at this stage the arrow was pointing up. Under Ange it's pointing down so that's why, despite 5th being an acceptable expectation, it's not a true measure of where we are as a club.
posted on 3/5/24
I should add, I'm still very much Ange in and he needs the time to turn it around because frankly, who else is there? There's no point in changing now. We've got to stick to it but it depends how things go next year. If we're still playing the way we are by Christmas, I think he's in trouble personally.
posted on 3/5/24
I don't expect us to beat Sheff United or Burnley... Both will sit deep and probably look to score from set pieces.... We are the perfect opponent
As for all this 'brand of football" stuff.. Its total bollix..... Our brand of football is what we current play. We can't defend set pieces, leave massive gaps behind the FBs, have a ton of pointless possession and miss loads of chances..... Its been that way since November
Spurs fans need to live in the now, not the 1st 10 games of the season and not in some vague hope that we are gonna spend tons of money and everything will be better next year
This spurs squad is perfectly good enough to get CL Football this year given the competition. Its been poorly managed by Ange and a result a 5th place finish( or worse as is likely) should be viewed as a failure
Ange needs to be told this isnt good enough, set pieces matter and his job is to win games..... Same goes for the players
posted on 3/5/24
For the record I don't want Ange sacked... I want him to improve as a coach, man manager and tactician
posted on 3/5/24
I have said on other threads before we are better placed in the league than most expected me included. However it’s the way we lose no effort, desire, heart is shown each time.
If you lose 2-1 and you see effort and players trying you accept it as unlucky or whatever but we don’t lose that way…. It’s always mostly embarrassing.
We’ve had this issue for many years so not strictly just an Ange era problem.
posted on 3/5/24
Once I saw who we had brought in and without European football, I was kind of expecting a top 4 challenge and a decent cup run, even with Kane sold. I thought there'd be a bit of a boost among the team with this new manager and we got it, better than I expected, in the first 10 games. So yeah I expected more than we've given back.
It's the way we've ended the season that has rubbed fans up the wrong way more than anything I think. We're failing to create and failing to defend, even basic set pieces. Fans can't just be satisfied because we'll finish in the top 5. It's about the performance levels as well. In the season as a whole we've gone backwards so naturally the positivity starts leaving people.
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 minutes ago
Once I saw who we had brought in and without European football, I was kind of expecting a top 4 challenge and a decent cup run, even with Kane sold. I thought there'd be a bit of a boost among the team with this new manager and we got it, better than I expected, in the first 10 games. So yeah I expected more than we've given back.
It's the way we've ended the season that has rubbed fans up the wrong way more than anything I think. We're failing to create and failing to defend, even basic set pieces. Fans can't just be satisfied because we'll finish in the top 5. It's about the performance levels as well. In the season as a whole we've gone backwards so naturally the positivity starts leaving people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well said
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
posted on 3/5/24
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
posted on 3/5/24
I personally think you've slightly overcompensated after having to endure Mourinho, Nuno & Conte. I'd get sick of him after awhile, the novelty would wear off for me, but I'm a bit of a tactics nerd.
posted on 3/5/24
Christ, now the Chelsea fans are giving us advice. We must have really hit rock bottom.
posted on 3/5/24
I think you're underestimating Ange's desire to win, Devil. He has his philosophy, sure, but he still wants success and he'll tweak and do what he needs to do to make that happen. He's not just a happy to play nice football kind of guy. I know it might seem like that on the backdrop of poor results but no one is more angry at what's happening more than him. I think it'll just take time.
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Livid I'd say
posted on 3/5/24
Ange ball....flange ball
posted on 3/5/24
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 3 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
dont feel strongly either way. I dont really care about league positions between 5 and 17.
posted on 3/5/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Christ, now the Chelsea fans are giving us advice. We must have really hit rock bottom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Da Fuq do you know about it?
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Diamondlights (U20501)
posted 6 hours, 44 minutes ago
For the record I don't want Ange sacked... I want him to improve as a coach, man manager and tactician
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 3/5/24
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
The thing about Ange, and managers like him, is the results will likely remain inconsistent however much time you give him. The football might absolutely improve over time (it's not bad now), but don't expect to seriously compete for the title with him no matter how much support he gets from above.
It's a question of what you value as a club. If you're happy being entertained he should deliver the goods long term, if you're happy being in & around the top same thing. But if you want that feeling of natural progression up the table year on year (like what you had with Pochettino), I don't think he's the guy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Da Fuq do you know about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
more than you...your club has been a laughing stock for like... forever
posted on 3/5/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 hours, 53 minutes ago
I think you're underestimating Ange's desire to win, Devil. He has his philosophy, sure, but he still wants success and he'll tweak and do what he needs to do to make that happen. He's not just a happy to play nice football kind of guy. I know it might seem like that on the backdrop of poor results but no one is more angry at what's happening more than him. I think it'll just take time.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't get that impression from him at all, he openly ducks anything tactical. Even in the post-match last night, the interviewer is really trying to get a proper answer from him about where he felt he went wrong & he's just not responding beyond reiterating "his message".
He doesn't seem to have an interest in building a complete team which (imo) should be every manager's ambition, and he seems to have zero interest in the opposition - Dier's comments, and his response, were very revealing to me. We had this with Sarri, fundamentalist manager who's only preoccupied with his team & style of play hoping to turn matches into a war of attrition, but doing this in the PL with so many tactically savvy managers is really hard.
posted on 4/5/24
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 22 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 47 minutes ago
Losing home and away to an awful chelsea team with a ridiculous amount of injuries is surely reason alone to be a bit angry?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you give up both of those victories for a 5th place finish?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably although neither is the sort of thing we will brag to our children about.
Page 1 of 1