comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is if you want to be pedantic , but they operate as a union (the clue is in the name), take subs off their members, and fight for their interests. Exactly as a union (by
name) does.
Happy to inform you too.
——————-
The NFU is registered as an employer association with the Certification Office for Trade Unions and Employers' Associations. Despite potential confusion due to "Union" being in the NFU's name, it is not a trade union.
👍👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But operates similarly, with the same benefits. A union in all but name, and viewed as such by their members. Google can give you so much information, but not all of it, as you have highlighted. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pedantic indeed.
One would expect the Govt to consult the "Union" on such changes, as they are the body representing farmers and understand fully the interests and concerns of their members and the industry as a whole.
And that is the issue you and I are trying to raise here. Not the taxes/money, per se, but what impact it has on the industry and the wider rural economy.
It may only be viewed as small beer in terms of numbers of farms and money, but the commulative effect of effectively forcing more and more family farms to sell up.
As you have rightly pointed out in your Welsh example, the trend is destroying the rural economy, and damaging the environment.
Those on here making this a Tory vs Labour thing are not interested in understanding the issues. It shouldn't matter who is promoting this policy, it is a policy that has been in place for 40 years and there is sound reason for it. There there is also a sound reasoning for targeting the wealthy who are exploiting this loop to evade IHT because besides the impact on tax revenues, this practice also harms the sector by driving up land values & pricing family farms.
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely listen to and seek the views of their members. Try again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's me convinced.
How exactly? Do they have member votes? Other than who the next president will be lol. Did they seek their members' majority before agreeing on Red Tractor for example? The NFU makes the decisions and the members have to abide by them.
————————
Wow, this google thin is really informative, I’ve just found out this trade association have in the past demanded the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board.
With a union like that who needs enemies hey.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they're a union don't you know. It says so in their name and they have members I tell yee!!
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is if you want to be pedantic , but they operate as a union (the clue is in the name), take subs off their members, and fight for their interests. Exactly as a union (by
name) does.
Happy to inform you too.
——————-
The NFU is registered as an employer association with the Certification Office for Trade Unions and Employers' Associations. Despite potential confusion due to "Union" being in the NFU's name, it is not a trade union.
👍👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But operates similarly, with the same benefits. A union in all but name, and viewed as such by their members. Google can give you so much information, but not all of it, as you have highlighted. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pedantic indeed.
One would expect the Govt to consult the "Union" on such changes, as they are the body representing farmers and understand fully the interests and concerns of their members and the industry as a whole.
And that is the issue you and I are trying to raise here. Not the taxes/money, per se, but what impact it has on the industry and the wider rural economy.
It may only be viewed as small beer in terms of numbers of farms and money, but the commulative effect of effectively forcing more and more family farms to sell up.
As you have rightly pointed out in your Welsh example, the trend is destroying the rural economy, and damaging the environment.
Those on here making this a Tory vs Labour thing are not interested in understanding the issues. It shouldn't matter who is promoting this policy, it is a policy that has been in place for 40 years and there is sound reason for it. There there is also a sound reasoning for targeting the wealthy who are exploiting this loop to evade IHT because besides the impact on tax revenues, this practice also harms the sector by driving up land values & pricing family farms.
———————————————
Ok, so when the farmers we’ve seen on TV disassociate themselves from Clarkson I’ll have more sympathy.
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see when you start attacking the poster rather than arguing your point, which you, Gingetnuts, and unfortunately Devonshire have then you've lost that argument. I've asked several times on one specific point and you've chosen to ignore it and now claim the discussion is over, but apparently it's me with my fingers in my ears lol
I have answered your question. You just choose to ignore it. How else can I answer your question? I’ve even given spefic personal accounts to back it up, but you’re not happy with that either. That’s why I said you have fingers in your ears, and I can’t contribute more to the discussion.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see when you start attacking the poster rather than arguing your point, which you, Gingetnuts, and unfortunately Devonshire have then you've lost that argument. I've asked several times on one specific point and you've chosen to ignore it and now claim the discussion is over, but apparently it's me with my fingers in my ears lol
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be fun. Where have I attacked you as a person?
I’ve criticised the nonsense you’ve written which is reasonable.
Don’t try and make this some kind of personal thing when it clearly isn’t.
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
To add to Babyen's point about Welsh speaking communities. We've also seen an explosion in the housing market over the last decade or so. Makes it impossible nearly for youngsters to get on the ladder. In Gwynedd they've got an Article 4 direction in place which means you need planning consent to go from a residential property to a holiday let/holiday home. Seems fair to me. Those against are moaning as it'll reduce their home's value. Bring it on I say. I may well lose out financially as my house in Gwynedd will be 'worth' less but I'm happy to see that happen if it helps the market. Indeed I think we could do with a housing/property/land crash. If we have that it could well help the farmers be under the threshold.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but which bit of being wholly owned by the members does not somehow equate to representing their views by way of concenus?
That doesn’t make any sense. Do you think they just give everyone’s different views regardless? Of course they represent the majority. They are after all representing themselves.
And they don’t vote on strikes because they’ve never needed to.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to know. 👍🏻I’ll draw on my personal experiences to form an opinion, and compare how the NFU operates with the educational union I was a member of, as well as my current union (Unison).
Not a massive difference in my opinion, but hey, I can’t draw on personal experience with you, as either you choose to ignore them, or they are not relevant.
We can agree on one thing though, we’ll leave it there and let other posters to make up their minds.
This is a side issue to the main point I was making about the destruction of rural lives, communities, and villages as we know it, specifically here in North Wales.
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh well done you. Point scored.
We all no that the NFU is not a union in the traditional sense, it is the largest body that represents the interest of farmers, and will do that through consultation with its members as to the issues that it wishes to have represented at Government.
This is largely irrelevant from the issues being discussed, but congratulations again for making and winning this very important point.
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
————————————-
Fortunately Unite and Prospect are inclusive, farmers can join an actual trade union if they wish.
Worth considering IMO
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to know. 👍🏻I’ll draw on my personal experiences to form an opinion, and compare how the NFU operates with the educational union I was a member of, as well as my current union (Unison).
Not a massive difference in my opinion, but hey, I can’t draw on personal experience with you, as either you choose to ignore them, or they are not relevant.
We can agree on one thing though, we’ll leave it there and let other posters to make up their minds.
This is a side issue to the main point I was making about the destruction of rural lives, communities, and villages as we know it, specifically here in North Wales.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on Barti...everyone knows googling something trumps personal knowledge and experience. These are experts you are dealing with ! You should back down!
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an example, not a statement of fact.
Are you really that simple?
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an example, not a statement of fact.
Are you really that simple ?
———————————————————
Using an example so ridiculous that it would never happen is simple
Google helped me establish that BTW 👍
Dev
You said if farmers put dairy prices up supermarkets would import.
This part was a statement of fact.
Sign in if you want to comment
British farmers
Page 7 of 14
8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is if you want to be pedantic , but they operate as a union (the clue is in the name), take subs off their members, and fight for their interests. Exactly as a union (by
name) does.
Happy to inform you too.
——————-
The NFU is registered as an employer association with the Certification Office for Trade Unions and Employers' Associations. Despite potential confusion due to "Union" being in the NFU's name, it is not a trade union.
👍👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But operates similarly, with the same benefits. A union in all but name, and viewed as such by their members. Google can give you so much information, but not all of it, as you have highlighted. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pedantic indeed.
One would expect the Govt to consult the "Union" on such changes, as they are the body representing farmers and understand fully the interests and concerns of their members and the industry as a whole.
And that is the issue you and I are trying to raise here. Not the taxes/money, per se, but what impact it has on the industry and the wider rural economy.
It may only be viewed as small beer in terms of numbers of farms and money, but the commulative effect of effectively forcing more and more family farms to sell up.
As you have rightly pointed out in your Welsh example, the trend is destroying the rural economy, and damaging the environment.
Those on here making this a Tory vs Labour thing are not interested in understanding the issues. It shouldn't matter who is promoting this policy, it is a policy that has been in place for 40 years and there is sound reason for it. There there is also a sound reasoning for targeting the wealthy who are exploiting this loop to evade IHT because besides the impact on tax revenues, this practice also harms the sector by driving up land values & pricing family farms.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They absolutely listen to and seek the views of their members. Try again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that's me convinced.
How exactly? Do they have member votes? Other than who the next president will be lol. Did they seek their members' majority before agreeing on Red Tractor for example? The NFU makes the decisions and the members have to abide by them.
————————
Wow, this google thin is really informative, I’ve just found out this trade association have in the past demanded the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board.
With a union like that who needs enemies hey.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they're a union don't you know. It says so in their name and they have members I tell yee!!
posted on 18/11/24
grow up !
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is if you want to be pedantic , but they operate as a union (the clue is in the name), take subs off their members, and fight for their interests. Exactly as a union (by
name) does.
Happy to inform you too.
——————-
The NFU is registered as an employer association with the Certification Office for Trade Unions and Employers' Associations. Despite potential confusion due to "Union" being in the NFU's name, it is not a trade union.
👍👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But operates similarly, with the same benefits. A union in all but name, and viewed as such by their members. Google can give you so much information, but not all of it, as you have highlighted. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pedantic indeed.
One would expect the Govt to consult the "Union" on such changes, as they are the body representing farmers and understand fully the interests and concerns of their members and the industry as a whole.
And that is the issue you and I are trying to raise here. Not the taxes/money, per se, but what impact it has on the industry and the wider rural economy.
It may only be viewed as small beer in terms of numbers of farms and money, but the commulative effect of effectively forcing more and more family farms to sell up.
As you have rightly pointed out in your Welsh example, the trend is destroying the rural economy, and damaging the environment.
Those on here making this a Tory vs Labour thing are not interested in understanding the issues. It shouldn't matter who is promoting this policy, it is a policy that has been in place for 40 years and there is sound reason for it. There there is also a sound reasoning for targeting the wealthy who are exploiting this loop to evade IHT because besides the impact on tax revenues, this practice also harms the sector by driving up land values & pricing family farms.
———————————————
Ok, so when the farmers we’ve seen on TV disassociate themselves from Clarkson I’ll have more sympathy.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see when you start attacking the poster rather than arguing your point, which you, Gingetnuts, and unfortunately Devonshire have then you've lost that argument. I've asked several times on one specific point and you've chosen to ignore it and now claim the discussion is over, but apparently it's me with my fingers in my ears lol
posted on 18/11/24
I have answered your question. You just choose to ignore it. How else can I answer your question? I’ve even given spefic personal accounts to back it up, but you’re not happy with that either. That’s why I said you have fingers in your ears, and I can’t contribute more to the discussion.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 46 seconds ago
grow up !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this part of the conversation is over. Playmaker has obviously taken his stance, so no matter what we say, and our knowledge of the topic, he’s doing the written version of sticking his fingers in his ear, and shouting la la la.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see when you start attacking the poster rather than arguing your point, which you, Gingetnuts, and unfortunately Devonshire have then you've lost that argument. I've asked several times on one specific point and you've chosen to ignore it and now claim the discussion is over, but apparently it's me with my fingers in my ears lol
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be fun. Where have I attacked you as a person?
I’ve criticised the nonsense you’ve written which is reasonable.
Don’t try and make this some kind of personal thing when it clearly isn’t.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
posted on 18/11/24
To add to Babyen's point about Welsh speaking communities. We've also seen an explosion in the housing market over the last decade or so. Makes it impossible nearly for youngsters to get on the ladder. In Gwynedd they've got an Article 4 direction in place which means you need planning consent to go from a residential property to a holiday let/holiday home. Seems fair to me. Those against are moaning as it'll reduce their home's value. Bring it on I say. I may well lose out financially as my house in Gwynedd will be 'worth' less but I'm happy to see that happen if it helps the market. Indeed I think we could do with a housing/property/land crash. If we have that it could well help the farmers be under the threshold.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but which bit of being wholly owned by the members does not somehow equate to representing their views by way of concenus?
That doesn’t make any sense. Do you think they just give everyone’s different views regardless? Of course they represent the majority. They are after all representing themselves.
And they don’t vote on strikes because they’ve never needed to.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to know. 👍🏻I’ll draw on my personal experiences to form an opinion, and compare how the NFU operates with the educational union I was a member of, as well as my current union (Unison).
Not a massive difference in my opinion, but hey, I can’t draw on personal experience with you, as either you choose to ignore them, or they are not relevant.
We can agree on one thing though, we’ll leave it there and let other posters to make up their minds.
This is a side issue to the main point I was making about the destruction of rural lives, communities, and villages as we know it, specifically here in North Wales.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴 (U9094)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 53 seconds ago
Where were all the super tough Tories meeting mobs of Drs, Teachers, Rail, Postal workers when they protested ?
But, the farmers who don’t have a union demand KS should do, they do seem to think they’re an exception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninformed. Farmers do have a Union
What’s that union called ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.nfuonline.com/
—————————————
The NFU is a trade association not a union, happy to inform you so 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think they really listen to or seek the views of their members either. Don't even think they ask them to vote for anything e.g. strikes. Instead individuals and groups all tend to act in independent disparate ways with all sorts of splinter groups doing what they want. At best I think the NFU is more like a tory lobbying group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s probably best you just say you don’t know what they do instead of typing that nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is you can't say what they do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I coups have said a bit as one of my close friends worked in a senior role for the NFU.
That aside I took the audacious step of looking it up and reading about their role.
Maybe try that or are you going to double down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Double down on what? I've got you telling me you knew someone who had a senior role in the NFU, and Barti telling me she was "privy" to some top secret discussions with some family members
Neither of you have actually put forward any evidence of them seeking member views i.e. voting for any decisions they make such as strike action or for example the Red Tractor scheme last year? You pay them as members but have little or no say in their decision making.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I have now answered you in my last comment.
And if you are going to debate, then don’t be disingenuous. I never said they were “top secret” meetings. They were anything but. They were visiting all farms in the area seeking their views on a range of issues, the red tractor scheme being one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could accuse you of the same when it comes to being disingenuous. I'm not asking for your personal experience because to a large extent it's meaningless. Your family may have been up for the Red Tractor scheme but that doesn't tell us about the majority. I've asked several times, including in the post you've just quoted whether they have members vote before decision making? And am I wrong to say there are farmers who act on their own or in groups to take action without the NFU?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can’t use examples of personal experience, I’ll just say the same thing without providing personal experience? That makes no sense to me. I’ll never know what the majority felt. I’m not that knowledgeable on the issue. But then, neither are you, and you have no personal experience of it either. I’ll leave it there, and let other posters make up their own minds on the issue. I have nothing else to give in this debate. 👍🏻
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh well done you. Point scored.
We all no that the NFU is not a union in the traditional sense, it is the largest body that represents the interest of farmers, and will do that through consultation with its members as to the issues that it wishes to have represented at Government.
This is largely irrelevant from the issues being discussed, but congratulations again for making and winning this very important point.
posted on 18/11/24
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
————————————-
Fortunately Unite and Prospect are inclusive, farmers can join an actual trade union if they wish.
Worth considering IMO
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Barti Ddu 🏴☠️🏴�... (U9094)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Playmaker (U22780)
posted 2 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh? You do understand that in other "unions" they seek a vote on things, and the results of the vote are made public? How can that not make sense to you? The fact you don't know what the majority views before thr NFU make their decision is precisely the point I'm making. They make the decision regardless.
I'll leave it there, even if you don't get this simple point about how unions operate I'm sure others will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to know. 👍🏻I’ll draw on my personal experiences to form an opinion, and compare how the NFU operates with the educational union I was a member of, as well as my current union (Unison).
Not a massive difference in my opinion, but hey, I can’t draw on personal experience with you, as either you choose to ignore them, or they are not relevant.
We can agree on one thing though, we’ll leave it there and let other posters to make up their minds.
This is a side issue to the main point I was making about the destruction of rural lives, communities, and villages as we know it, specifically here in North Wales.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on Barti...everyone knows googling something trumps personal knowledge and experience. These are experts you are dealing with ! You should back down!
posted on 18/11/24
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
posted on 18/11/24
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
posted on 18/11/24
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an example, not a statement of fact.
Are you really that simple?
posted on 18/11/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by kramthered (U10304)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 seconds ago
kramthered taking the classic arguing position of one having little knowledge, that if you cannot verify your position with irrefutable evidence then your view is cancelled and his 10 minute old google learned knowledge trumps yours.
——————————————
Oh do feck off, go back to trying to convince us all that French farmers are queuing up to supply supermarkets in Britain at a loss .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So much bullsheeet it wouldn't look out of place on a farm, ironically.
——————————————————————
Yep your French milk scenario was 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was an example, not a statement of fact.
Are you really that simple ?
———————————————————
Using an example so ridiculous that it would never happen is simple
Google helped me establish that BTW 👍
posted on 18/11/24
Dev
You said if farmers put dairy prices up supermarkets would import.
This part was a statement of fact.
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