Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Agree with most of that. I suppose there's an argument that going back to the historic criterion of whether the handball was intentional makes it a subjective call, which leads to inconsistency in applying the law. On the other hand, if it's based on whether you widen the silhouette of your body, that can be more objectively judged. Another argument is that if you drop the unnatural position idea, it gives licence for players to adopt positions that make it more likely that their hands and arms block shots, effectively narrowing the available angle for shooting. Neither of these are to say I think we should keep the rules as they are, just that there's going to be a downside to any interpretation of handball in the box.
I think there's a wider issue that in so many cases a penalty is too big a punishment for whatever infraction happened. Giving a team a ~70% chance of a goal in a low-scoring sport is ridiculous if the foul wasn't preventing a shot or a clear goal-scoring opportunity. It's madness to award a penalty for a handball in the box that isn't intercepting a shot or preventing an assist, or for clipping a forward as he's being shepherded in the direction of the corner flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what I said but less violently put
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not so fast. If it's a low scoring sport then the powers that be will see it as an incentive to award the penalty and make games more exciting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You want the sport to be dumbed down, to be love islandified just to produce more goals which you perceived as more entertaining? Do you find women's football more entertaining because the keepers are like 5 foot so there are more goals cos you can just kick it at a mid height into the middle of the goals for a screamer to give the keeper no chance?
Penalties for swearing? Penalties for smelling of sweat? Penalties for not speaking English in the English game? What else would you give almost automatic goals for in the name of "entertainment", rendering all other efforts and aspects of the game meaningless?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I had this idea about penalties that can only be headed in.
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need a dictionary.
A punch implies he intentionally struck the ball with his hand, which is clearly not what happened.
His arm came up as he jumped and the ball hit it.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
Watch players head the ball, watch them tackle.
======
Watch basketball players dribbling the ball, they use their legs to stand up and run but that doesn't mean you can use your legs in basketball.
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
There was this one time the ball hit a players leg in basketball and he punched the ref for calling it.
You see, he was using his legs for standing up and running and therefore the ball hitting them shouldn't count.
Basketball is played with hands. Football is played with legs.
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How would it be trained on the player probability though? There wouldn't be enough data available on De Gea penalties. Unless players are made to take 100 pens in training and it is recorded. Then it is open to abuse because Lewandowski could just deliberately miss 99 of them when doing the calibration and then he gets to take a 1% chance pen. So a very minor foul, which would never result in a goal now gets turned into a Lewandowski pen.
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Watch players head the ball, watch them tackle.
======
Watch basketball players dribbling the ball, they use their legs to stand up and run but that doesn't mean you can use your legs in basketball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re not using their legs or arms to affect the ball. The ball is hitting them.
Google ‘Van Dijk tackling’ and look at the images. In any of those tackles, if the ball happened to flick up and his his arm, he’d be penalised.
Crazy.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 11 minutes ago
Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a scary and funny prospect.
Google ‘Van Dijk tackling’ and look at the images. In any of those tackles, if the ball happened to flick up and his his arm, he’d be penalised.
=====
Same would happen to the attacker. Why should defenders get special remit to use their hands when defending?
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given your inability to ever admit when you’re wrong (cite your lie about penalties at OT and Heathrow Airport ownership comments recently), along with your already ridiculous replies to me on this thread, I’m not going to bother engaging with you on this thread.
Have a nice day.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need a dictionary.
A punch implies he intentionally struck the ball with his hand, which is clearly not what happened.
His arm came up as he jumped and the ball hit it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No a dictionary will not show me that a punch implies he intentionally punched it. A punch is a closed first and an arm moving away from your body towards the target. This happened whether it was intentional or not.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 11 minutes ago
Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a scary and funny prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See, you say this, exactly the same as with driverless cars. It seems like a scary prospect switching from fully manual to fully automatic.
BUT in both football and cars, they are bringing in elements of automation, semi-automated offsides, goal line technology, parking assist, lane warnings etc. individually.
Once the last element of human decision is eliminated, you won't even notice because the water was boiled slowly over time so you didn't jump out.
Unless of course you are against goal line technology and semi automated offsides? And parking assist and all the other automated features in cars?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given your inability to ever admit when you’re wrong (cite your lie about penalties at OT and Heathrow Airport ownership comments recently), along with your already ridiculous replies to me on this thread, I’m not going to bother engaging with you on this thread.
Have a nice day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I must be the only poster that can make Winston tap out.
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How would it be trained on the player probability though? There wouldn't be enough data available on De Gea penalties. Unless players are made to take 100 pens in training and it is recorded. Then it is open to abuse because Lewandowski could just deliberately miss 99 of them when doing the calibration and then he gets to take a 1% chance pen. So a very minor foul, which would never result in a goal now gets turned into a Lewandowski pen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought about all that but couldn't be arsеd to say because I assumed you'd would.
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 27 minutes ago
The handball law could be very simple.
Deliberate handball only.
What constitutes deliberate? Actually using your hand on the ball or deliberately putting your hands somewhere likely to affect the ball.
Let the referee use common sense and get on with it.
Sadly, a mixture of FIFA/UEFA incompetence and immaturity from people who want the game to be back and white, tick box rules, have meant we now have a total mess of a rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nailed it.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it’s certainly not my intention to imply that he intentionally punched it, I was just trying to describe the action he made in relation to the ball. I think that actions makes it a penalty, intentional or not.
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 27 minutes ago
The handball law could be very simple.
Deliberate handball only.
What constitutes deliberate? Actually using your hand on the ball or deliberately putting your hands somewhere likely to affect the ball.
Let the referee use common sense and get on with it.
Sadly, a mixture of FIFA/UEFA incompetence and immaturity from people who want the game to be back and white, tick box rules, have meant we now have a total mess of a rule.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nailed it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that would be madness. It is extremely rare a player intentionally handballs it. Also it is extremely subjective. You could put your hand in a position where it’s likely to stop a shot but not actually intentionally handball.
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it’s certainly not my intention to imply that he intentionally punched it, I was just trying to describe the action he made in relation to the ball. I think that actions makes it a penalty, intentional or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t use the word punch then.
It makes it a penalty under the current laws but why you think punishing a player because the ball happened to hit him while jumping is beyond me.
Sign in if you want to comment
The handball rule
Page 2 of 5
posted on 7/3/25
Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Agree with most of that. I suppose there's an argument that going back to the historic criterion of whether the handball was intentional makes it a subjective call, which leads to inconsistency in applying the law. On the other hand, if it's based on whether you widen the silhouette of your body, that can be more objectively judged. Another argument is that if you drop the unnatural position idea, it gives licence for players to adopt positions that make it more likely that their hands and arms block shots, effectively narrowing the available angle for shooting. Neither of these are to say I think we should keep the rules as they are, just that there's going to be a downside to any interpretation of handball in the box.
I think there's a wider issue that in so many cases a penalty is too big a punishment for whatever infraction happened. Giving a team a ~70% chance of a goal in a low-scoring sport is ridiculous if the foul wasn't preventing a shot or a clear goal-scoring opportunity. It's madness to award a penalty for a handball in the box that isn't intercepting a shot or preventing an assist, or for clipping a forward as he's being shepherded in the direction of the corner flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what I said but less violently put
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not so fast. If it's a low scoring sport then the powers that be will see it as an incentive to award the penalty and make games more exciting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You want the sport to be dumbed down, to be love islandified just to produce more goals which you perceived as more entertaining? Do you find women's football more entertaining because the keepers are like 5 foot so there are more goals cos you can just kick it at a mid height into the middle of the goals for a screamer to give the keeper no chance?
Penalties for swearing? Penalties for smelling of sweat? Penalties for not speaking English in the English game? What else would you give almost automatic goals for in the name of "entertainment", rendering all other efforts and aspects of the game meaningless?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I had this idea about penalties that can only be headed in.
posted on 7/3/25
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need a dictionary.
A punch implies he intentionally struck the ball with his hand, which is clearly not what happened.
His arm came up as he jumped and the ball hit it.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
posted on 7/3/25
Watch players head the ball, watch them tackle.
======
Watch basketball players dribbling the ball, they use their legs to stand up and run but that doesn't mean you can use your legs in basketball.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
posted on 7/3/25
There was this one time the ball hit a players leg in basketball and he punched the ref for calling it.
You see, he was using his legs for standing up and running and therefore the ball hitting them shouldn't count.
Basketball is played with hands. Football is played with legs.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How would it be trained on the player probability though? There wouldn't be enough data available on De Gea penalties. Unless players are made to take 100 pens in training and it is recorded. Then it is open to abuse because Lewandowski could just deliberately miss 99 of them when doing the calibration and then he gets to take a 1% chance pen. So a very minor foul, which would never result in a goal now gets turned into a Lewandowski pen.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 4 minutes ago
Watch players head the ball, watch them tackle.
======
Watch basketball players dribbling the ball, they use their legs to stand up and run but that doesn't mean you can use your legs in basketball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’re not using their legs or arms to affect the ball. The ball is hitting them.
Google ‘Van Dijk tackling’ and look at the images. In any of those tackles, if the ball happened to flick up and his his arm, he’d be penalised.
Crazy.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 11 minutes ago
Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a scary and funny prospect.
posted on 7/3/25
Google ‘Van Dijk tackling’ and look at the images. In any of those tackles, if the ball happened to flick up and his his arm, he’d be penalised.
=====
Same would happen to the attacker. Why should defenders get special remit to use their hands when defending?
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given your inability to ever admit when you’re wrong (cite your lie about penalties at OT and Heathrow Airport ownership comments recently), along with your already ridiculous replies to me on this thread, I’m not going to bother engaging with you on this thread.
Have a nice day.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
The one from Fernandez should be handball by any standard of the rules from any time. He literally punched the ball away from the players head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just factually incorrect.
A punch would be an intentional movement of a clenched fist to hit the ball.
Thats not what happened.
He had his arm raised and the ball hit it.
If you’re going to write factually incorrect comments about what happened then you’ll struggle to have a sensible discussion on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His arm swung towards the ball and punched it. I’m not saying he meant to punch it but that is what the movement looked like and this should always result in a penalty, for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need a dictionary.
A punch implies he intentionally struck the ball with his hand, which is clearly not what happened.
His arm came up as he jumped and the ball hit it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No a dictionary will not show me that a punch implies he intentionally punched it. A punch is a closed first and an arm moving away from your body towards the target. This happened whether it was intentional or not.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 11 minutes ago
Don’t worry, we’ll soon have AI refereeing the games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a scary and funny prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See, you say this, exactly the same as with driverless cars. It seems like a scary prospect switching from fully manual to fully automatic.
BUT in both football and cars, they are bringing in elements of automation, semi-automated offsides, goal line technology, parking assist, lane warnings etc. individually.
Once the last element of human decision is eliminated, you won't even notice because the water was boiled slowly over time so you didn't jump out.
Unless of course you are against goal line technology and semi automated offsides? And parking assist and all the other automated features in cars?
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 42 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Return of the Mamb (U1282)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
How have we got to a point where having your arms away from your body is seen as worthy of punishment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not seen as worthy of punishment. What's worthy of punishment is when the ball hits your arms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that went without saying tbh
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It's should be but your starting point is that the defender has his arms out instead of the ball hitting the defenders arms.
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Given your inability to ever admit when you’re wrong (cite your lie about penalties at OT and Heathrow Airport ownership comments recently), along with your already ridiculous replies to me on this thread, I’m not going to bother engaging with you on this thread.
Have a nice day.
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I must be the only poster that can make Winston tap out.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by Calum Ferrie (U1734)
posted 9 seconds ago
We could use AI to work out the likelihood of a chance being converted into a goal from where the foul takes place and if it's a high likelihood then a pen is given. If low then indirect freekick. Doesn't have to just be direct goalscoring opportunity. It can be like 3 passes away but AI would work it out based on player positions etc
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I was thinking the same, Barry. In the same way that xG evaluates quality of scoring chance, if you train AI on a large enough data set, it's hardly Black Mirror to imagine it could give a real time calculation of the probability of a goal being scored if the foul hadn't occurred.
Take it a step further: based on that probability, it can adjust the spot from which the penalty is taken so that the probability of scoring matches that of the chance that was denied. Or (having assessed penalty taking records of all players) it could stipulate which member of the squad takes the kick. Van Persie if there was an 85% chance of a goal being scored. De Gea if it was 5%.
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How would it be trained on the player probability though? There wouldn't be enough data available on De Gea penalties. Unless players are made to take 100 pens in training and it is recorded. Then it is open to abuse because Lewandowski could just deliberately miss 99 of them when doing the calibration and then he gets to take a 1% chance pen. So a very minor foul, which would never result in a goal now gets turned into a Lewandowski pen.
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I thought about all that but couldn't be arsеd to say because I assumed you'd would.
posted on 7/3/25
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 27 minutes ago
The handball law could be very simple.
Deliberate handball only.
What constitutes deliberate? Actually using your hand on the ball or deliberately putting your hands somewhere likely to affect the ball.
Let the referee use common sense and get on with it.
Sadly, a mixture of FIFA/UEFA incompetence and immaturity from people who want the game to be back and white, tick box rules, have meant we now have a total mess of a rule.
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Nailed it.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
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Well it’s certainly not my intention to imply that he intentionally punched it, I was just trying to describe the action he made in relation to the ball. I think that actions makes it a penalty, intentional or not.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 27 minutes ago
The handball law could be very simple.
Deliberate handball only.
What constitutes deliberate? Actually using your hand on the ball or deliberately putting your hands somewhere likely to affect the ball.
Let the referee use common sense and get on with it.
Sadly, a mixture of FIFA/UEFA incompetence and immaturity from people who want the game to be back and white, tick box rules, have meant we now have a total mess of a rule.
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Nailed it.
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Yeah that would be madness. It is extremely rare a player intentionally handballs it. Also it is extremely subjective. You could put your hand in a position where it’s likely to stop a shot but not actually intentionally handball.
posted on 7/3/25
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR, if you don’t even know the meaning of words then you’ll struggle with this one.
He didn’t literally punch it, and you’re wrong.
The reason that matters is intent is rather critical here, and the language you’re using absolutely implies intent.
What actually happened is he jumped, the ball came across and hit him as he jumped. There was no suggestion that he meant to do it at all and it was merely a coming together of the ball and his hand.
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Well it’s certainly not my intention to imply that he intentionally punched it, I was just trying to describe the action he made in relation to the ball. I think that actions makes it a penalty, intentional or not.
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Don’t use the word punch then.
It makes it a penalty under the current laws but why you think punishing a player because the ball happened to hit him while jumping is beyond me.
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