comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pun (U21588)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 38 minutes ago
Would fans do this deal now:
Spurs win the trophy but only qualify for next seasons Europa.
Utd lose but get UCL qualification.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. I want to remember a victory. The CL is a bonus for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With you on this diafol. The trophy is what’s important, not the old boys club money mill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Football isn't about trophies.
It's about being the better team when you lose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
poor legohead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🎶 Everything is Awesome 🎶
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 17 minutes ago
Still wouldn't say we've had some outright successes. Yes our recrutitment seems a lot more organised (which isn't that hard considering the shambolic nature of our recrutitment post Ferguson) but long way off having any successes imo.
Martinez is a good example of speaking too soon. Great character and has some very good attributes and fans where creaming themselves over him being a future captain but since his debut season he's been pretty poor and probably needs replacing.
I don't wanna sound like scholayScholes but we are currently 15th in the table, 15th!!! Since we beat City in December we have beaten a single side outside the bottom 3 over 19 games, that is absolutely shocking. We've been appalling this season and bar Bruno I don't think any player can really hold their head up so this idea that we have some outright successes is pretty ridiculous really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, my fundamental point was that I don't think we have a basis to say the new recruitment team isn't up to it. I shared my (interim) assessment of the players they have brought in. You may take issue with that (though you haven't done so explicitly), or may reasonably say it's too early to judge them. If your point is we've had a bad season, of course I don't disagree; I just don't think that tells us much about the people who will be spending our transfer kitty this summer.
Digressing from the topic... This time last year a lot of people were flagging that our underlying performance levels (things like good chances conceded) were much, much worse than our position in the league table. We picked up a lot more points than a team with those underlying stats should have. This year we haven't got freakishly lucky. There was a strategic failure by INEOS in hesitating and then initiating system change in the middle of the season, which has really put back our post-ETH rebuilding. But I don't think that reflects badly on the players they have brought in, or the ability of the leadership team to make good decisions for Amorim's squad development. Generally, I'm optimistic that we're moving in the right direction.
I’d say we’re moving in a better direction but not necessarily the right one. Time will tell but there are still many issues both on and off the field to say that we’re going in the right way imo.
I like Amorim but I’m also skeptical about his very rigid approach or weather it will succeed. There are also some players I like most of which are still a long way off playing at the level I would hope United can play at soon. I’m also hopefully we’ll bring in a least a couple players who fit our needs system but at the same time very skeptical we’ll move on the craaap that are holding us back.
On a side note, I much prefer us playing on Tues/Weds as well as having more Saturday league games instead of Sundays and Thursdays, personal preference for going to games and other commitments outside of work and social stuff.
So CL fits better into my life than EL.
What do you mean by 'very rigid approach', 1982? From what I've read (and to some extent seen), he has a lot of variety and flexibility within that formation. E.g. using a wing back to keep maximum width or having them cut inside and using a forward to provide the width on that side. More defensive or creative players in particular positions. Using different structures to build up from the back, or just going long. Deploying a striker or a false 9 with runners in behind.
Sure, he doesn't divert from playing three at the back. But I guess you want a certain amount of consistency if you want the players to gradually get on the same wavelength.
comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 15 seconds ago
On a side note, I much prefer us playing on Tues/Weds as well as having more Saturday league games instead of Sundays and Thursdays, personal preference for going to games and other commitments outside of work and social stuff.
So CL fits better into my life than EL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mecca Bingo on Thursday nights has been a fixture for years for Mike and the Mrs, so seasons in the Europa League always cause tension.
Just adding my thoughts on the 'transfer successes'
Mazraoui - Absolutely a success. Cheap fee and he's been great.
Yoro - Looks a star in the making. Unreal talent.
Ugarte, Dorgu, Zirkzee......I'm genuinely not that impressed or excited by any of them personally. Think they are distinctly average players and not really the calibre we need. Ugarte in particular for the fee we paid us a huge disappointment. His passing ability is woeful.
The conversion rate is absurdly poor. A bit more clinical finishing from Garnacho and Zirkzee and many would be saying how next year we could challenge.
We have to get one person who could change this. A bit more Amad, a lot more attacking wing backs. The formation has done It's part. The players are failing it.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 29 minutes ago
Just adding my thoughts on the 'transfer successes'
Mazraoui - Absolutely a success. Cheap fee and he's been great.
Yoro - Looks a star in the making. Unreal talent.
Ugarte, Dorgu, Zirkzee......I'm genuinely not that impressed or excited by any of them personally. Think they are distinctly average players and not really the calibre we need. Ugarte in particular for the fee we paid us a huge disappointment. His passing ability is woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to be clear: I only described Mazraoui and Yoro as successes. But I do think you're being very harsh in writing off Zirkzee and Dorgu as young players coming to the PL after a just few months.
Personally, I don't think Zirkzee will be a long-term fit for United, because Amorim's system really needs pace from a forward and ideally wants different sorts of profiles in the 10s, but then he was bought for ETH where I guess it was envisaged he could play as a false 9 with the likes of Rashford running in behind. But he obviously has a lot of ability, he didn't cost much and isn't on high wages, so I'd guess we will be breaking even or making a modest profit when we sell him.
Dorgu was bought as a player with incredible physicality whose game was not fully refined. He's slightly exceeded my expectations since he arrived. I recall that you already proclaimed we were jokers for signing him before the transfer had gone through.
Ugarte was a player I described as 'somewhere between OK and good'. He's by far our best midfielder at covering ground and winning back the ball - something we were desperately lacking in. He's much better at carrying the ball under pressure than I expected, and generally his decision making in possession is pretty sound. His passing range isn't amazing (though he has played the odd lovely through ball). He's had some games where his passing has been sloppy - though we have games where everyone's passing is sloppy, and this has to be at least in part down to collectively lacking composure and letting the other team put us under pressure. Again, I'd give him a bit longer and like to see him in a more functioning side before writing him off.
But I'd also invite you to consider the idea that we simply can't afford players without weaknesses at the moment. If Dorgu had the refinement of Hakimi on the ball as well as his speed and stamina, imagine how much he would cost. If Ugarte didn't just have the engine, defensive tenacity and ability to turn out of trouble but could also pass the ball like Mainoo, he'd have cost 50% more. It has become more and more obvious over the last couple of seasons that United get physically bullied and significantly outrun by the mid- and lower-table sides in the PL, not just the best ones. It's absolutely essential that we rectify that, and we have to do so while operating under major budget as PSR restrictions. It means we're going to have to accept some compromises, because the players who tick every physical and technical box are going to be in high demand and out of our price range.
He might be flexible within a system but I’d say he’s still far less flexible in terms of formations which is showing with us being terrible week in week out by insisting on a formation that has historically rarely worked well in the PL. I really hope he succeeds but it’s a massive risk to bring in a manager who insists on a specific formation that the squad are unable of operate and thinking we can recruit the players we need over a short period of time (primarily through young unproven talent) and still be relatively competitive. I’m not going to give up on the guy so soon but domestically we’ve been shockingly bad and there is no evidence for me to suggest he can turn things around especially with the system he is insistent on playing.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 minutes ago
He might be flexible within a system but I’d say he’s still far less flexible in terms of formations which is showing with us being terrible week in week out by insisting on a formation that has historically rarely worked well in the PL. I really hope he succeeds but it’s a massive risk to bring in a manager who insists on a specific formation that the squad are unable of operate and thinking we can recruit the players we need over a short period of time (primarily through young unproven talent) and still be relatively competitive. I’m not going to give up on the guy so soon but domestically we’ve been shockingly bad and there is no evidence for me to suggest he can turn things around especially with the system he is insistent on playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think there has been some improvement, a little, but can’t disagree with the rest
De Ligt has been a success!
1982, ETH consistently played a 4-2-3-1. Many managers stick to the same formation throughout a season. They are rarely accused of inflexibility. It seems to me your complaint isn't about lack of flexibility, but about the decision the club made to hire a manager mid-season on the understanding that it involved changing the entire system. That's a reasonable complaint.
Ultimately, I don't think it's mainly an issue about playing three CBs and wing backs. We've seen our central defenders fit pretty comfortably to that system. Amad has performed well as a wing back. Dalot and Mazraoui aren't ideal WBs but have adapted. Shaw would have been a good fit if available. Dorgu arrived fairly early. The bigger systemic adaptation that Amorim has overseen is a shift from playing transitional football to trying to dominate possession and emphasising chance creation in possession. That is something that takes time and suffering to do, and would have done if we had four at the back (indeed, ETH set out to do this and abandoned the plan). I'm quite impressed by progress in this respect, even though we're clearly still on a journey.
From where I'm standing, the shortfalls in the squad seem to be more about the inherent limitations of our players than issues with the system. To my eyes, we're already progressing the ball from the back more consistently than we did under ETH, and we're beginning to see more patterns of play that work the ball into dangerous positions. But we still get outrun by other PL teams. The players are still prone to panicking if put under pressure. We still don't have enough players with composure in the final third. Yes, we'll need a lot of squad turnover to make Amorim a success. Are you going to argue that if we'd appointed a coach who played a back 4 last November that wouldn't have been the case? Do you reckon that alternative manager could have reprogrammed the players to play slick possession football by now?
It’s nothing to do with system. We were garbage this season in a back 4 heading to similar results playing basketball football. It would be crazy stupid for him to abandon his core system before the squad is fully capable. Only then do you adjust. This squad can’t even play a back 4 anyway as proven with ten hag. Super open conceding over 25 shots a game.
“your complaint isn't about lack of flexibility, but about the decision the club made to hire a manager mid-season on the understanding that it involved changing the entire system”
And a system that has rarely worked in the PL. EtH played 4231, a system used by every manager before him in some capacity and the squad he inherited had the players to play that system. He also had relative success in the beginning of his time at United but eventually was sacked for his inflexibility and refusal to alter things. I am fully aware Amorim came in at a terrible time and the chances of him creating much positive change was slim but still, the fact he is insistent on a formation that our squad can’t play is a huge factor why we’ve been as bad as we have and even if he got the players he wants to operate his 3421 there is no reason he will succeed.
3-4-3 has rarely worked in the PL. Are you able to say that it has often failed? Ever failed?
It's a slightly unusual system, granted. That doesn't tell us that it's likely to be less successful. From my perspective, we start our latest rebuild with a much worse squad than the top teams, and unable to outspend them as we try to catch up... so our best chance of closing that gap is if we can be an early adopter of a tactical innovation, or deploy a system that other teams don't face very often and therefore don't have a practised toolkit to counteract.
But I'll repeat: I think that moving to 3 isn't as big a deal as it's made out to be in terms of players having to adapt. We all know that the shape of any team shifts across different phases possession / non-possession. Modern players are going to have to adopt a range of positions relative to their team mates in any formation. With changes of coaches and tactical tweaks, footballers are going to be asked to perform different functions in build-up, etc. regardless of whether there's a back four or back three. Once again, I believe the bigger transformation Amorim is making his players deal with isn't the formation, but the shift away from a counter-attacking philosophy to a dominating one.
Ten Hag abandoned that goal when he saw how much short-term drop-off in performance that would create. But ultimately it put a low ceiling on what he could achieve, and disintegrated into tactical incoherence. I absolutely back Amorim's unwillingness to compromise on this. Reluctance to suffer now in order to build the foundations of a modern football club is the story of our lost decade.
Chelsea won the title playing a back 3. Inter are one of the best sides and play it. It’s nothing to do with formation but everything to do with players. I don’t think it’s impossible this side plays well next season wigh a back 3. The motivation in the league was gone a long time ago. Goal scorer and solid wingbacks and proper 10 like Cunha and we are a much better side.
Red Russian you know what’s funny, before Ruben came in, the likes of Garry Neville were saying this squad couldn’t play a back 4 and a back 3 would really help united, and give them stability, then they flip flop their opinions.
Put a confident goal scorer in this team and we'd be many points better off. The whole squad would play with a bit more confidence, because the whole risk:reward balance would be different. And there would be far less discussion about Amorim's formation. Meanwhile, the squad would have the same weaknesses and would require more or less the same overhaul of personnel (minus one goalscorer, I guess) and incremental work implementing the footballing philosophy.
I could not agree with you more. This game is all about winning trophies. If we win it, I believe it takes us back to being the most successful club on this land?
We need more than just a top scorer. Currently we create very little all around for a striker to get on the end of, we have a keeper who doesn’t seem to know how to be a keeper half the time, we have ineffective wingbacks who offer little, we have a midfield that is unbalanced and lacks quality and rely far too much on 1 player.
While I appreciate your positivity I honestly think you’re massively overrating our current state. We’re a team that lack quality all over the pitch, that also lack leadership and athleticism. We play a system that the manager is insistent on playing when we lack the players to play it during a period where we are unable to bring in much needed reinforcements. We are currently 15th and in the last half a season have only beaten Fulham outside the bottom 3 (probably the worst bottom 3 the PL has ever had) and our play week to week is a mess with mistakes all over.
Yes a concurrent scorer will improve us over one that has managed a handful of goals all season but it isn’t going to transform our play.
82 - I think we can go from a side that is 15th to 8th next season. That should be the expectation unfortunately. That’s how I see it anyway. Amad will be a wingback and he is attacking, cunha, bruno, mount will be 10s, as I can Nacho sold. New striker, new central midfielder, and hopefully fullback and we will look a lot better. Likes of Yoro are improving a lot, de Ligt and maz have settled well. Challenging will take upwards of 3 years minimum at best.
82 - argument about not having players to play the system is a weak one. The current players can’t even play the system they were designed and bought to play, hence why the previous manager was sacked with the side bottom half of the table. They can’t play any system as a top side, not consistently anyway. This side as a back 4 got beaten 7.0 and multiple 4.0 losses etx
1982 read carefully what I said and it wasn't that all is fine with a reliable scorer. I said it would look a lot better (by which I mean something like last year's bad league performance, as opposed to this year's catastrophic one). I also said we would need the same fundamental rebuild that we realise we need now.
I know what you said, I thought it was obvious a better player is likely to improve us which means more points. I’m just stating that there is a lot of room for improvement all over the pitch.
Anyway, I appreciate what you’re saying, I just don’t agree or am as optimistic as you about the state of the team (or our managers system or our reliance on youth). I hope I’m wrong and we see some improvements next season. For now let’s just hope we can beat Spurs, it’s a shame we have to play a PL side as we’re clearly far better suited to the less physical mainland European sides.
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The whole narrative is about the CL spot
Page 3 of 4
posted on 9/5/25
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Pun (U21588)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 38 minutes ago
Would fans do this deal now:
Spurs win the trophy but only qualify for next seasons Europa.
Utd lose but get UCL qualification.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. I want to remember a victory. The CL is a bonus for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With you on this diafol. The trophy is what’s important, not the old boys club money mill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Football isn't about trophies.
It's about being the better team when you lose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
poor legohead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🎶 Everything is Awesome 🎶
posted on 9/5/25
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 17 minutes ago
Still wouldn't say we've had some outright successes. Yes our recrutitment seems a lot more organised (which isn't that hard considering the shambolic nature of our recrutitment post Ferguson) but long way off having any successes imo.
Martinez is a good example of speaking too soon. Great character and has some very good attributes and fans where creaming themselves over him being a future captain but since his debut season he's been pretty poor and probably needs replacing.
I don't wanna sound like scholayScholes but we are currently 15th in the table, 15th!!! Since we beat City in December we have beaten a single side outside the bottom 3 over 19 games, that is absolutely shocking. We've been appalling this season and bar Bruno I don't think any player can really hold their head up so this idea that we have some outright successes is pretty ridiculous really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, my fundamental point was that I don't think we have a basis to say the new recruitment team isn't up to it. I shared my (interim) assessment of the players they have brought in. You may take issue with that (though you haven't done so explicitly), or may reasonably say it's too early to judge them. If your point is we've had a bad season, of course I don't disagree; I just don't think that tells us much about the people who will be spending our transfer kitty this summer.
Digressing from the topic... This time last year a lot of people were flagging that our underlying performance levels (things like good chances conceded) were much, much worse than our position in the league table. We picked up a lot more points than a team with those underlying stats should have. This year we haven't got freakishly lucky. There was a strategic failure by INEOS in hesitating and then initiating system change in the middle of the season, which has really put back our post-ETH rebuilding. But I don't think that reflects badly on the players they have brought in, or the ability of the leadership team to make good decisions for Amorim's squad development. Generally, I'm optimistic that we're moving in the right direction.
posted on 9/5/25
I’d say we’re moving in a better direction but not necessarily the right one. Time will tell but there are still many issues both on and off the field to say that we’re going in the right way imo.
I like Amorim but I’m also skeptical about his very rigid approach or weather it will succeed. There are also some players I like most of which are still a long way off playing at the level I would hope United can play at soon. I’m also hopefully we’ll bring in a least a couple players who fit our needs system but at the same time very skeptical we’ll move on the craaap that are holding us back.
posted on 9/5/25
On a side note, I much prefer us playing on Tues/Weds as well as having more Saturday league games instead of Sundays and Thursdays, personal preference for going to games and other commitments outside of work and social stuff.
So CL fits better into my life than EL.
posted on 9/5/25
What do you mean by 'very rigid approach', 1982? From what I've read (and to some extent seen), he has a lot of variety and flexibility within that formation. E.g. using a wing back to keep maximum width or having them cut inside and using a forward to provide the width on that side. More defensive or creative players in particular positions. Using different structures to build up from the back, or just going long. Deploying a striker or a false 9 with runners in behind.
Sure, he doesn't divert from playing three at the back. But I guess you want a certain amount of consistency if you want the players to gradually get on the same wavelength.
posted on 9/5/25
comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 15 seconds ago
On a side note, I much prefer us playing on Tues/Weds as well as having more Saturday league games instead of Sundays and Thursdays, personal preference for going to games and other commitments outside of work and social stuff.
So CL fits better into my life than EL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mecca Bingo on Thursday nights has been a fixture for years for Mike and the Mrs, so seasons in the Europa League always cause tension.
posted on 9/5/25
Just adding my thoughts on the 'transfer successes'
Mazraoui - Absolutely a success. Cheap fee and he's been great.
Yoro - Looks a star in the making. Unreal talent.
Ugarte, Dorgu, Zirkzee......I'm genuinely not that impressed or excited by any of them personally. Think they are distinctly average players and not really the calibre we need. Ugarte in particular for the fee we paid us a huge disappointment. His passing ability is woeful.
posted on 9/5/25
The conversion rate is absurdly poor. A bit more clinical finishing from Garnacho and Zirkzee and many would be saying how next year we could challenge.
We have to get one person who could change this. A bit more Amad, a lot more attacking wing backs. The formation has done It's part. The players are failing it.
posted on 9/5/25
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 29 minutes ago
Just adding my thoughts on the 'transfer successes'
Mazraoui - Absolutely a success. Cheap fee and he's been great.
Yoro - Looks a star in the making. Unreal talent.
Ugarte, Dorgu, Zirkzee......I'm genuinely not that impressed or excited by any of them personally. Think they are distinctly average players and not really the calibre we need. Ugarte in particular for the fee we paid us a huge disappointment. His passing ability is woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to be clear: I only described Mazraoui and Yoro as successes. But I do think you're being very harsh in writing off Zirkzee and Dorgu as young players coming to the PL after a just few months.
Personally, I don't think Zirkzee will be a long-term fit for United, because Amorim's system really needs pace from a forward and ideally wants different sorts of profiles in the 10s, but then he was bought for ETH where I guess it was envisaged he could play as a false 9 with the likes of Rashford running in behind. But he obviously has a lot of ability, he didn't cost much and isn't on high wages, so I'd guess we will be breaking even or making a modest profit when we sell him.
Dorgu was bought as a player with incredible physicality whose game was not fully refined. He's slightly exceeded my expectations since he arrived. I recall that you already proclaimed we were jokers for signing him before the transfer had gone through.
Ugarte was a player I described as 'somewhere between OK and good'. He's by far our best midfielder at covering ground and winning back the ball - something we were desperately lacking in. He's much better at carrying the ball under pressure than I expected, and generally his decision making in possession is pretty sound. His passing range isn't amazing (though he has played the odd lovely through ball). He's had some games where his passing has been sloppy - though we have games where everyone's passing is sloppy, and this has to be at least in part down to collectively lacking composure and letting the other team put us under pressure. Again, I'd give him a bit longer and like to see him in a more functioning side before writing him off.
But I'd also invite you to consider the idea that we simply can't afford players without weaknesses at the moment. If Dorgu had the refinement of Hakimi on the ball as well as his speed and stamina, imagine how much he would cost. If Ugarte didn't just have the engine, defensive tenacity and ability to turn out of trouble but could also pass the ball like Mainoo, he'd have cost 50% more. It has become more and more obvious over the last couple of seasons that United get physically bullied and significantly outrun by the mid- and lower-table sides in the PL, not just the best ones. It's absolutely essential that we rectify that, and we have to do so while operating under major budget as PSR restrictions. It means we're going to have to accept some compromises, because the players who tick every physical and technical box are going to be in high demand and out of our price range.
posted on 9/5/25
He might be flexible within a system but I’d say he’s still far less flexible in terms of formations which is showing with us being terrible week in week out by insisting on a formation that has historically rarely worked well in the PL. I really hope he succeeds but it’s a massive risk to bring in a manager who insists on a specific formation that the squad are unable of operate and thinking we can recruit the players we need over a short period of time (primarily through young unproven talent) and still be relatively competitive. I’m not going to give up on the guy so soon but domestically we’ve been shockingly bad and there is no evidence for me to suggest he can turn things around especially with the system he is insistent on playing.
posted on 9/5/25
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 minutes ago
He might be flexible within a system but I’d say he’s still far less flexible in terms of formations which is showing with us being terrible week in week out by insisting on a formation that has historically rarely worked well in the PL. I really hope he succeeds but it’s a massive risk to bring in a manager who insists on a specific formation that the squad are unable of operate and thinking we can recruit the players we need over a short period of time (primarily through young unproven talent) and still be relatively competitive. I’m not going to give up on the guy so soon but domestically we’ve been shockingly bad and there is no evidence for me to suggest he can turn things around especially with the system he is insistent on playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think there has been some improvement, a little, but can’t disagree with the rest
posted on 9/5/25
De Ligt has been a success!
posted on 9/5/25
1982, ETH consistently played a 4-2-3-1. Many managers stick to the same formation throughout a season. They are rarely accused of inflexibility. It seems to me your complaint isn't about lack of flexibility, but about the decision the club made to hire a manager mid-season on the understanding that it involved changing the entire system. That's a reasonable complaint.
Ultimately, I don't think it's mainly an issue about playing three CBs and wing backs. We've seen our central defenders fit pretty comfortably to that system. Amad has performed well as a wing back. Dalot and Mazraoui aren't ideal WBs but have adapted. Shaw would have been a good fit if available. Dorgu arrived fairly early. The bigger systemic adaptation that Amorim has overseen is a shift from playing transitional football to trying to dominate possession and emphasising chance creation in possession. That is something that takes time and suffering to do, and would have done if we had four at the back (indeed, ETH set out to do this and abandoned the plan). I'm quite impressed by progress in this respect, even though we're clearly still on a journey.
From where I'm standing, the shortfalls in the squad seem to be more about the inherent limitations of our players than issues with the system. To my eyes, we're already progressing the ball from the back more consistently than we did under ETH, and we're beginning to see more patterns of play that work the ball into dangerous positions. But we still get outrun by other PL teams. The players are still prone to panicking if put under pressure. We still don't have enough players with composure in the final third. Yes, we'll need a lot of squad turnover to make Amorim a success. Are you going to argue that if we'd appointed a coach who played a back 4 last November that wouldn't have been the case? Do you reckon that alternative manager could have reprogrammed the players to play slick possession football by now?
posted on 9/5/25
It’s nothing to do with system. We were garbage this season in a back 4 heading to similar results playing basketball football. It would be crazy stupid for him to abandon his core system before the squad is fully capable. Only then do you adjust. This squad can’t even play a back 4 anyway as proven with ten hag. Super open conceding over 25 shots a game.
posted on 9/5/25
“your complaint isn't about lack of flexibility, but about the decision the club made to hire a manager mid-season on the understanding that it involved changing the entire system”
And a system that has rarely worked in the PL. EtH played 4231, a system used by every manager before him in some capacity and the squad he inherited had the players to play that system. He also had relative success in the beginning of his time at United but eventually was sacked for his inflexibility and refusal to alter things. I am fully aware Amorim came in at a terrible time and the chances of him creating much positive change was slim but still, the fact he is insistent on a formation that our squad can’t play is a huge factor why we’ve been as bad as we have and even if he got the players he wants to operate his 3421 there is no reason he will succeed.
posted on 9/5/25
3-4-3 has rarely worked in the PL. Are you able to say that it has often failed? Ever failed?
It's a slightly unusual system, granted. That doesn't tell us that it's likely to be less successful. From my perspective, we start our latest rebuild with a much worse squad than the top teams, and unable to outspend them as we try to catch up... so our best chance of closing that gap is if we can be an early adopter of a tactical innovation, or deploy a system that other teams don't face very often and therefore don't have a practised toolkit to counteract.
But I'll repeat: I think that moving to 3 isn't as big a deal as it's made out to be in terms of players having to adapt. We all know that the shape of any team shifts across different phases possession / non-possession. Modern players are going to have to adopt a range of positions relative to their team mates in any formation. With changes of coaches and tactical tweaks, footballers are going to be asked to perform different functions in build-up, etc. regardless of whether there's a back four or back three. Once again, I believe the bigger transformation Amorim is making his players deal with isn't the formation, but the shift away from a counter-attacking philosophy to a dominating one.
Ten Hag abandoned that goal when he saw how much short-term drop-off in performance that would create. But ultimately it put a low ceiling on what he could achieve, and disintegrated into tactical incoherence. I absolutely back Amorim's unwillingness to compromise on this. Reluctance to suffer now in order to build the foundations of a modern football club is the story of our lost decade.
posted on 9/5/25
Chelsea won the title playing a back 3. Inter are one of the best sides and play it. It’s nothing to do with formation but everything to do with players. I don’t think it’s impossible this side plays well next season wigh a back 3. The motivation in the league was gone a long time ago. Goal scorer and solid wingbacks and proper 10 like Cunha and we are a much better side.
posted on 9/5/25
Red Russian you know what’s funny, before Ruben came in, the likes of Garry Neville were saying this squad couldn’t play a back 4 and a back 3 would really help united, and give them stability, then they flip flop their opinions.
posted on 9/5/25
Put a confident goal scorer in this team and we'd be many points better off. The whole squad would play with a bit more confidence, because the whole risk:reward balance would be different. And there would be far less discussion about Amorim's formation. Meanwhile, the squad would have the same weaknesses and would require more or less the same overhaul of personnel (minus one goalscorer, I guess) and incremental work implementing the footballing philosophy.
posted on 9/5/25
I could not agree with you more. This game is all about winning trophies. If we win it, I believe it takes us back to being the most successful club on this land?
posted on 9/5/25
We need more than just a top scorer. Currently we create very little all around for a striker to get on the end of, we have a keeper who doesn’t seem to know how to be a keeper half the time, we have ineffective wingbacks who offer little, we have a midfield that is unbalanced and lacks quality and rely far too much on 1 player.
While I appreciate your positivity I honestly think you’re massively overrating our current state. We’re a team that lack quality all over the pitch, that also lack leadership and athleticism. We play a system that the manager is insistent on playing when we lack the players to play it during a period where we are unable to bring in much needed reinforcements. We are currently 15th and in the last half a season have only beaten Fulham outside the bottom 3 (probably the worst bottom 3 the PL has ever had) and our play week to week is a mess with mistakes all over.
Yes a concurrent scorer will improve us over one that has managed a handful of goals all season but it isn’t going to transform our play.
posted on 9/5/25
82 - I think we can go from a side that is 15th to 8th next season. That should be the expectation unfortunately. That’s how I see it anyway. Amad will be a wingback and he is attacking, cunha, bruno, mount will be 10s, as I can Nacho sold. New striker, new central midfielder, and hopefully fullback and we will look a lot better. Likes of Yoro are improving a lot, de Ligt and maz have settled well. Challenging will take upwards of 3 years minimum at best.
posted on 9/5/25
82 - argument about not having players to play the system is a weak one. The current players can’t even play the system they were designed and bought to play, hence why the previous manager was sacked with the side bottom half of the table. They can’t play any system as a top side, not consistently anyway. This side as a back 4 got beaten 7.0 and multiple 4.0 losses etx
posted on 9/5/25
1982 read carefully what I said and it wasn't that all is fine with a reliable scorer. I said it would look a lot better (by which I mean something like last year's bad league performance, as opposed to this year's catastrophic one). I also said we would need the same fundamental rebuild that we realise we need now.
posted on 9/5/25
I know what you said, I thought it was obvious a better player is likely to improve us which means more points. I’m just stating that there is a lot of room for improvement all over the pitch.
Anyway, I appreciate what you’re saying, I just don’t agree or am as optimistic as you about the state of the team (or our managers system or our reliance on youth). I hope I’m wrong and we see some improvements next season. For now let’s just hope we can beat Spurs, it’s a shame we have to play a PL side as we’re clearly far better suited to the less physical mainland European sides.
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