posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 11 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by Luka "The List" Brasi (U22178)
posted 22 minutes ago
By the sounds of it we are playing the game.
And I've never seen fans protest in the off season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All the Levy out protests have gained fack all !!
I'll tell you why
There weren't massive amounts of fans inside the stadium protesting but they did have some balloons.
Fair play to the ones that did march before one of the games last season and they have every right to do so.
What I did notice was some of the most vocal Levy out movement on here didn't turn up to vent their anger, I'm excluding Hengy because as far as I'm aware he did go.
Some fans want Levy to just spend huge amounts on players and their wages and not worry if we put ourselves in financial peril.
While I think if we really want to compete every season with City, Liverpool and Arsenal we need to pay bigger fees and bigger wages it should only be done if it's sustainable.
Villa have had one season in the Champions League and while Emery has done well to improve them their wage bill is nearly 90 percent of their turnover which is crazy and not business savvy.
Levy is far from perfect but he's not as bad as some chairmen or owners and in my opinion, he should focus on the commercial side and let the football people he has employed get on with what he's paying them to do.
I say this as I remember us nearly going bust when Irving Scholar built the new West Stand at White Hart Lane and we had to be saved by Sir Alan Sugar.
Levy has built us an amazing stadium and state of the art training complex and not put us in any financial danger.
I've renewed my season ticket and it works out around £55 a game which I'm happy to pay and the food and drink is well priced and others must feel the same as Park Lane Square which is behind the South stand is busy before and after games.
Levy might not be the best chairman but he's far from the worst.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, but when you do well enough to qualify for the CL, that’s the time to invest to ensure you stay there. The reason why we’ve rarely had sustained participation in the CL is because Levy doesn’t have the balls to play a high stakes game. Villa at least tried, even if it ultimately failed. We’ve never really gone for it. Arsenal are a good example. 3-4 years ago we were at a similar level. They qualified for the CL and used that as a reason to invest to ensure they stay there. Now they’re guaranteed it every year at the bare minimum. It can be done but you can’t do it playing conservatively in the market. It’s impossible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what has worked against us is that a lack of continuity has made it hard to feel like we are building something like Arsenal did. Aretata's start was pretty meh, for his first 2 seasons but that then improved with 5th, before they then made the top 4 and invested heavily at that point.
I would say that after Conte's first season there was a big opportunity as he had come in and done very well and with his reputation as a top manager we could have trusted him to have kept us improving. That summer we qualified for the UCL we did spend about 180m euro and that compares to when Arsenal broke into the UCL when they spent about 235m euro. They made 3 mains buy. Spurs also made 3 main buys, Richarlison, Bissouma and making Romero permanent. Porro came in the January but really if we had pushed the boat out for another quality CB and had Porro from the start may be Conte would have less grounds for his meltdown.
For me that Conte first summer window was the first time that we were really well placed to go large - Manager, UCL, steady & increasing revenues - but we didnt really. We didnt push the boat out. We spent a lot but it didnt deliver the squad that was needed, at least 2 more were nedded.
Since then Ange's transfers has been more of a rebuild, not so much a time to go large, more a case of getting numbers in and completely refresh the squad with this being the start of a new phase.
As i have said loads b4, i think now is the time to go larger, like Arsenal did, with 2 big buys, and then a few more value replacements in the squad.
But i do wonder whether the lack of continuity, the new manager, another new start and the uncertainty that that brings means we're gonna see more caution before we know whether we can trust Frank and be happy to invest large in him. I hope not. I hope the top brass are prepared to back their call with what is needed to move this squad on....which is very clearly quality, not quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I agree, we missed a massive opportunity with Conte to really push on
posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time Spurs won a trophy and finished in the top 4 (or top 6)?
History has shown that Spurs cannot do both.
I was neither Ange-in or Ange-out, but it is irritating to read fans yearning for more trophyless years (as long as we finish in the top 6) rather than acknowledging the significance of the Europa League win.
Yes, let's look ahead and hope that we can achieve both under Thomas Frank, but this constant undervaluing of our win last season is unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is yearning for more trophyless years by the way. We all want to win trophies. The problem I had with some of those sticking up for Ange is that they kept propositioning how we'd all take 17th if we could take a trophy. That was fine last season but I actually wouldn't want that next season or for it to be the norm.
I want us to perform on all fronts. History has taught us that it's hard to do but that doesn't mean we can't do it. Poch got close enough with it. If he had a bit more luck on his side then we would have got top 4 and a trophy. In terms of challenging on multiple fronts, there's no denying that we came closer in that era than under Ange.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We definitely need to strive for finishing in the top echelons and win a trophy. But winning a trophy should take priority.
Yes, Poch got us close, but the whole narrative about Spurs during his time and beyond, was that we never win anything. We were being ridiculed left right and centre.
Yet, when we finally got that monkey off our back last month, most of our fiercest critics (other fans and pundits) humbled themselves and had to give us begrudging respect.
I'll take a trophy win over league position any day! Unless we become genuine PL title challengers, in which case the title (still a trophy) would take precedence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't have to be one thing or the other. We just need to aim for both a trophy and to be higher up the table. What ultimately went wrong for Poch was the lack of investment in squad depth, which came down to Levy.
Now we have another manager who I think will be closer to Poch than Ange. If he can deliver on the things that Poch did in terms of getting more out of players in the squad, bringing us up to the right end of the table, then without any tangible success to show for that, it will be up to Levy once again to make that difference with the correct investment to get us over the line and achieve more trophies.
posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 11 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s just not true though Dev. Sure, you can buy potential on low wages and hope it flourishes, like Bergvall but if you’re getting a player in on relatively low wages, it’s largely because they’ve yet to prove they’re top players so there’s risk attached to those signings. Most of the time, if you’re doing your homework well and you’re not recruiting mercenaries, those on high wages are almost guaranteed to work out. How do we expect to sign ready made, experienced players of high quality if their wages are beyond our reach. It matters. We can all pick out isolated cases like Werner to suit an argument but there’s plenty of top players on decent wages that aren’t stealing a living like him.
The wages to revenue ratio is a problem, without question and if it doesn’t increase in a year where we have the riches of CL football then frankly we’re fecked. It might seem like a sensible business decision but if you’re a top player, and want to be paid well, you’re not gonna go knocking on Levy’s door are you? It’s the same as any other job. If you can get more money elsewhere, that’s where you’re gonna go. It’s as simple as that.
Levy, as I suspected he would, is abusing the data model we’ve introduced. What it’s done is it’s justified cheaper alternatives. Back in the day, we’d have just signed Raya, for example. Instead we find someone cheaper using data and he makes mistakes game on game. Data modelling is a dream for an owner like DL. It’s handy for every club to have it but let’s be honest, it’s been used frequently by the likes of Brentford and Brighton because they simply have to. They have no other choice. We’re not in that bracket. We shouldn’t be relying on it in the same way.
It’s just a bullshiiiiit excuse to buy cheap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mikey Van De Ven on £50k a week.
Should we be putting in an offer for Maguire because as a CB who is paid 4 times that, surely that means he is 4 times better? Right. DO you think they'd entertain a swap deal because we'd clearly be getting the better end of that deal because Maguire gets paid £200k, he must be awesome.
I am not denying that we need to add some quality to the team but quality speaks for itself, regardless of wages.
Our focus should be quality first. Sometimes that demands a high wage, sometimes, like VDV, it's relative peanuts
Forget the wages. Judge players by the quality we are bringing in.
As for the data driven thing.....almost every feckin modern club uses these systems to inform transfer decisions. United are bringing it in but are the perfect example of a dreadful transfer policy that's left them with a total mess of a squad. Chelsea have rebuilt an entire squad using this.
Its not a system designed to do things on the cheap. Its a system that helps identify value, whether that value is £30m or £110m like Wirz. And the funny thing about Vicario is that it was a Don Fabio buy...he's an old skool DOF, does things by eye, judgement gut feel, not number crunching! Vicario wasnt a data driven buy, none of the Italian based transfer were.
You just make shiiit up and spin it to suit your narrrative. The notion that data driven transfers are made for cheap skate chairmen is utterly laughable. You're wetting the bed already, banging the same old drum and we havent even got started in this window yet.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think fans have to remember we've been doing what Newcastle and Villa are doing now, quite consistently since Redknapp first got us into the UCL. Constantly in Europe, qualifying for UCL on a every other year basis (7 times since 2011) and our average finishing position in the league in this time is 5th even allowing for last seasons 17th.
The league was an aberration last season, but largely a flash in an otherwise competitive pan. It doesnt reflect the quality of the squad, nor fully the manager. Everyone underperformed and there were also mitigating circumstances which contributed.
I fully expect us to be up challenging with the likes of NUFC, Villa, Chelsea for the minor places but if we are to start building for better than that, then we need some proven quality that will improve us now and for the next years to come. That will also help us compete on more than one front, which has probably been the biggest problem for quite a while, that the quality was not enough or deep enough.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
posted 2 days, 7 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will
posted 2 days, 4 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think fans have to remember we've been doing what Newcastle and Villa are doing now, quite consistently since Redknapp first got us into the UCL. Constantly in Europe, qualifying for UCL on a every other year basis (7 times since 2011) and our average finishing position in the league in this time is 5th even allowing for last seasons 17th.
The league was an aberration last season, but largely a flash in an otherwise competitive pan. It doesnt reflect the quality of the squad, nor fully the manager. Everyone underperformed and there were also mitigating circumstances which contributed.
I fully expect us to be up challenging with the likes of NUFC, Villa, Chelsea for the minor places but if we are to start building for better than that, then we need some proven quality that will improve us now and for the next years to come. That will also help us compete on more than one front, which has probably been the biggest problem for quite a while, that the quality was not enough or deep enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, all eyes on your boy Levy to show us he really does mean what he says in wanting to win the big prizes. Because that will call for a different strategy from what we've been doing the last 25 years up to now. Although as I've said a few times already, he has at least been splashing the cash more since the new stadium was built and you can argue that's now seen us win a cup.
However things like breaking the wage structure, signing a bigger profile of player, not leaving it to the last minute, going all in for players and not haggling your way out of a deal, are things he will have to be prepared to change if he wants to win league titles and CLs.
posted 18 hours, 54 minutes ago
When a player like Mbeumo says it is his dream to play for United what he means is that United are offering him a lot more money. Chances are in 18 months he’ll be on loan to Napoli who will cover half of his wages. It’s the United way. And of course he’ll be brilliant - at Napoli.
posted 17 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 1 day, 13 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course he will, and the usual suspects will look daft in their devotion to him as we yet again struggle to compete on all fronts due to an insufficient squad.
Look forward to the excuses in September 1st when we haven’t signed anyone of significance.
Sign in if you want to comment
The most deluded man in football
Page 3 of 3
posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 6 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 11 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by hounslows-finest (U6180)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by Luka "The List" Brasi (U22178)
posted 22 minutes ago
By the sounds of it we are playing the game.
And I've never seen fans protest in the off season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All the Levy out protests have gained fack all !!
I'll tell you why
There weren't massive amounts of fans inside the stadium protesting but they did have some balloons.
Fair play to the ones that did march before one of the games last season and they have every right to do so.
What I did notice was some of the most vocal Levy out movement on here didn't turn up to vent their anger, I'm excluding Hengy because as far as I'm aware he did go.
Some fans want Levy to just spend huge amounts on players and their wages and not worry if we put ourselves in financial peril.
While I think if we really want to compete every season with City, Liverpool and Arsenal we need to pay bigger fees and bigger wages it should only be done if it's sustainable.
Villa have had one season in the Champions League and while Emery has done well to improve them their wage bill is nearly 90 percent of their turnover which is crazy and not business savvy.
Levy is far from perfect but he's not as bad as some chairmen or owners and in my opinion, he should focus on the commercial side and let the football people he has employed get on with what he's paying them to do.
I say this as I remember us nearly going bust when Irving Scholar built the new West Stand at White Hart Lane and we had to be saved by Sir Alan Sugar.
Levy has built us an amazing stadium and state of the art training complex and not put us in any financial danger.
I've renewed my season ticket and it works out around £55 a game which I'm happy to pay and the food and drink is well priced and others must feel the same as Park Lane Square which is behind the South stand is busy before and after games.
Levy might not be the best chairman but he's far from the worst.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, but when you do well enough to qualify for the CL, that’s the time to invest to ensure you stay there. The reason why we’ve rarely had sustained participation in the CL is because Levy doesn’t have the balls to play a high stakes game. Villa at least tried, even if it ultimately failed. We’ve never really gone for it. Arsenal are a good example. 3-4 years ago we were at a similar level. They qualified for the CL and used that as a reason to invest to ensure they stay there. Now they’re guaranteed it every year at the bare minimum. It can be done but you can’t do it playing conservatively in the market. It’s impossible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what has worked against us is that a lack of continuity has made it hard to feel like we are building something like Arsenal did. Aretata's start was pretty meh, for his first 2 seasons but that then improved with 5th, before they then made the top 4 and invested heavily at that point.
I would say that after Conte's first season there was a big opportunity as he had come in and done very well and with his reputation as a top manager we could have trusted him to have kept us improving. That summer we qualified for the UCL we did spend about 180m euro and that compares to when Arsenal broke into the UCL when they spent about 235m euro. They made 3 mains buy. Spurs also made 3 main buys, Richarlison, Bissouma and making Romero permanent. Porro came in the January but really if we had pushed the boat out for another quality CB and had Porro from the start may be Conte would have less grounds for his meltdown.
For me that Conte first summer window was the first time that we were really well placed to go large - Manager, UCL, steady & increasing revenues - but we didnt really. We didnt push the boat out. We spent a lot but it didnt deliver the squad that was needed, at least 2 more were nedded.
Since then Ange's transfers has been more of a rebuild, not so much a time to go large, more a case of getting numbers in and completely refresh the squad with this being the start of a new phase.
As i have said loads b4, i think now is the time to go larger, like Arsenal did, with 2 big buys, and then a few more value replacements in the squad.
But i do wonder whether the lack of continuity, the new manager, another new start and the uncertainty that that brings means we're gonna see more caution before we know whether we can trust Frank and be happy to invest large in him. I hope not. I hope the top brass are prepared to back their call with what is needed to move this squad on....which is very clearly quality, not quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I agree, we missed a massive opportunity with Conte to really push on
posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 2 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When was the last time Spurs won a trophy and finished in the top 4 (or top 6)?
History has shown that Spurs cannot do both.
I was neither Ange-in or Ange-out, but it is irritating to read fans yearning for more trophyless years (as long as we finish in the top 6) rather than acknowledging the significance of the Europa League win.
Yes, let's look ahead and hope that we can achieve both under Thomas Frank, but this constant undervaluing of our win last season is unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody is yearning for more trophyless years by the way. We all want to win trophies. The problem I had with some of those sticking up for Ange is that they kept propositioning how we'd all take 17th if we could take a trophy. That was fine last season but I actually wouldn't want that next season or for it to be the norm.
I want us to perform on all fronts. History has taught us that it's hard to do but that doesn't mean we can't do it. Poch got close enough with it. If he had a bit more luck on his side then we would have got top 4 and a trophy. In terms of challenging on multiple fronts, there's no denying that we came closer in that era than under Ange.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We definitely need to strive for finishing in the top echelons and win a trophy. But winning a trophy should take priority.
Yes, Poch got us close, but the whole narrative about Spurs during his time and beyond, was that we never win anything. We were being ridiculed left right and centre.
Yet, when we finally got that monkey off our back last month, most of our fiercest critics (other fans and pundits) humbled themselves and had to give us begrudging respect.
I'll take a trophy win over league position any day! Unless we become genuine PL title challengers, in which case the title (still a trophy) would take precedence.
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It doesn't have to be one thing or the other. We just need to aim for both a trophy and to be higher up the table. What ultimately went wrong for Poch was the lack of investment in squad depth, which came down to Levy.
Now we have another manager who I think will be closer to Poch than Ange. If he can deliver on the things that Poch did in terms of getting more out of players in the squad, bringing us up to the right end of the table, then without any tangible success to show for that, it will be up to Levy once again to make that difference with the correct investment to get us over the line and achieve more trophies.
posted 2 days, 9 hours ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 5 hours, 11 minutes ago
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That’s just not true though Dev. Sure, you can buy potential on low wages and hope it flourishes, like Bergvall but if you’re getting a player in on relatively low wages, it’s largely because they’ve yet to prove they’re top players so there’s risk attached to those signings. Most of the time, if you’re doing your homework well and you’re not recruiting mercenaries, those on high wages are almost guaranteed to work out. How do we expect to sign ready made, experienced players of high quality if their wages are beyond our reach. It matters. We can all pick out isolated cases like Werner to suit an argument but there’s plenty of top players on decent wages that aren’t stealing a living like him.
The wages to revenue ratio is a problem, without question and if it doesn’t increase in a year where we have the riches of CL football then frankly we’re fecked. It might seem like a sensible business decision but if you’re a top player, and want to be paid well, you’re not gonna go knocking on Levy’s door are you? It’s the same as any other job. If you can get more money elsewhere, that’s where you’re gonna go. It’s as simple as that.
Levy, as I suspected he would, is abusing the data model we’ve introduced. What it’s done is it’s justified cheaper alternatives. Back in the day, we’d have just signed Raya, for example. Instead we find someone cheaper using data and he makes mistakes game on game. Data modelling is a dream for an owner like DL. It’s handy for every club to have it but let’s be honest, it’s been used frequently by the likes of Brentford and Brighton because they simply have to. They have no other choice. We’re not in that bracket. We shouldn’t be relying on it in the same way.
It’s just a bullshiiiiit excuse to buy cheap.
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Mikey Van De Ven on £50k a week.
Should we be putting in an offer for Maguire because as a CB who is paid 4 times that, surely that means he is 4 times better? Right. DO you think they'd entertain a swap deal because we'd clearly be getting the better end of that deal because Maguire gets paid £200k, he must be awesome.
I am not denying that we need to add some quality to the team but quality speaks for itself, regardless of wages.
Our focus should be quality first. Sometimes that demands a high wage, sometimes, like VDV, it's relative peanuts
Forget the wages. Judge players by the quality we are bringing in.
As for the data driven thing.....almost every feckin modern club uses these systems to inform transfer decisions. United are bringing it in but are the perfect example of a dreadful transfer policy that's left them with a total mess of a squad. Chelsea have rebuilt an entire squad using this.
Its not a system designed to do things on the cheap. Its a system that helps identify value, whether that value is £30m or £110m like Wirz. And the funny thing about Vicario is that it was a Don Fabio buy...he's an old skool DOF, does things by eye, judgement gut feel, not number crunching! Vicario wasnt a data driven buy, none of the Italian based transfer were.
You just make shiiit up and spin it to suit your narrrative. The notion that data driven transfers are made for cheap skate chairmen is utterly laughable. You're wetting the bed already, banging the same old drum and we havent even got started in this window yet.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
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Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
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I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
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I think fans have to remember we've been doing what Newcastle and Villa are doing now, quite consistently since Redknapp first got us into the UCL. Constantly in Europe, qualifying for UCL on a every other year basis (7 times since 2011) and our average finishing position in the league in this time is 5th even allowing for last seasons 17th.
The league was an aberration last season, but largely a flash in an otherwise competitive pan. It doesnt reflect the quality of the squad, nor fully the manager. Everyone underperformed and there were also mitigating circumstances which contributed.
I fully expect us to be up challenging with the likes of NUFC, Villa, Chelsea for the minor places but if we are to start building for better than that, then we need some proven quality that will improve us now and for the next years to come. That will also help us compete on more than one front, which has probably been the biggest problem for quite a while, that the quality was not enough or deep enough.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
posted 2 days, 8 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
posted 2 days, 7 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
posted 2 days, 6 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will
posted 2 days, 4 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 5 minutes ago
Levy has now:
1. Fired a trophy winning manager for not competing on all fronts, despite yet again not providing the squad to do so
2. Said publicly he wants to win the league, champions league and to compete on all fronts
We will know by the end of August if this is yet more b u 11 sh1 t from supreme leader.
If it isn’t, and we make proper first team ready signings and our wage to revenue goes in the right direction, I think fans will get on board with this.
If we don’t do that and we only sign young potential on small wages, not only do I expect to see Frank gone in 12-18 months, but I expect the protests against this board to rise significantly and the division amongst fans to become two fold.
We need the players in NOW. Not at the end of august to save a few weeks wages, NOW.
Interesting times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its the player that matters, not the wages.
United have a massive wage bill, lots of highly paid players. How's it working for them. Villa have a high wage o revenue ratio. How's that going? They wont be going large in the market this summer.
What matters is who we get in. I would rather have a £50m player on £150k a week, than Werner for free on £170k a week.
Stop obsessing about wages. It is merely one measure of the quality of a player/our squad.
I will judge this window on who comes in, not whether they are prepared to accept £125k a week or are demanding double!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the examples of United and Villa are interesting ones because their respective form almost mimics what Ange In fans are happy to see and what Ange Out fans are happy to see.
While United have struggled in the league in recent seasons, they have also picked up trophies. Two trophies in 2 seasons under Ten Hag and then another final last season. For those who have approved of the Ange era and wished him to stay, what United have done would seem pretty good to them.
As for Villa, they are performing closer to how we were under Poch/Redknapp and this is a level many of us Ange Out fans have wanted to see us get to again. Not that we don't want to see Spurs pick up trophies either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think fans have to remember we've been doing what Newcastle and Villa are doing now, quite consistently since Redknapp first got us into the UCL. Constantly in Europe, qualifying for UCL on a every other year basis (7 times since 2011) and our average finishing position in the league in this time is 5th even allowing for last seasons 17th.
The league was an aberration last season, but largely a flash in an otherwise competitive pan. It doesnt reflect the quality of the squad, nor fully the manager. Everyone underperformed and there were also mitigating circumstances which contributed.
I fully expect us to be up challenging with the likes of NUFC, Villa, Chelsea for the minor places but if we are to start building for better than that, then we need some proven quality that will improve us now and for the next years to come. That will also help us compete on more than one front, which has probably been the biggest problem for quite a while, that the quality was not enough or deep enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, all eyes on your boy Levy to show us he really does mean what he says in wanting to win the big prizes. Because that will call for a different strategy from what we've been doing the last 25 years up to now. Although as I've said a few times already, he has at least been splashing the cash more since the new stadium was built and you can argue that's now seen us win a cup.
However things like breaking the wage structure, signing a bigger profile of player, not leaving it to the last minute, going all in for players and not haggling your way out of a deal, are things he will have to be prepared to change if he wants to win league titles and CLs.
posted 18 hours, 54 minutes ago
When a player like Mbeumo says it is his dream to play for United what he means is that United are offering him a lot more money. Chances are in 18 months he’ll be on loan to Napoli who will cover half of his wages. It’s the United way. And of course he’ll be brilliant - at Napoli.
posted 17 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 1 day, 13 hours ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 7 minutes ago
Let’s just wait and see. We will know by the end of August if it’s yet more bu11 sh1 t from levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well exactly.
It's kinda good that Levy has come out and said that. He's put himself under pressure and its a positive change from the usual "live within our means" message.
Couple big signings for the first XI, a couple of decent back up/squad players. That's what I expect !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope he doesn’t let you down. Again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He will
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course he will, and the usual suspects will look daft in their devotion to him as we yet again struggle to compete on all fronts due to an insufficient squad.
Look forward to the excuses in September 1st when we haven’t signed anyone of significance.
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