Our squad is much better suited to 4231 than it is a back 3/5.

comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
Glasner makes so much sense United will hire Emery
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Does Glasner make sense? Plays a similar formation to Amorim and many believe the system is the biggest issue.
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You might not like it but your squad has been built to play his system. Yeah it needs a midfielder but asking Iraola to recreate what he's doing at Bournemouth with your squad is doomed to fail.
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This squad is nowhere near being built to play the system Amorim wants - the CBs aren't capable of what Amorim wants and the CMs are strong enough either. Players can adapt to systems within reason but you got to play the right players in their strongest positions and also be pragmatic in what they can and can't do.

The most important part of getting Amorim's system to work are the CBs and CM and how they interact - that has barely been changed at all.

A clear thinking manager will recognise that and adapt accordingly with the players he has. One would hope that Iraola / Glasner / another would recognise that and work with it accordingly, something that Amorim doesn't seem to have grasped
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This is the mindset of a midtable team punching above its weight. Its why They look good for a while then crash back. Might as well bring back Ole, or Carrick.
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I don't get what you mean. Right now we are a poor team trying to work our way back up. Not easy to do but got to start somewhere. A manager can only work with what players we have. Of course we want to bring in as high a quality player as possible, but not sure what mindset you want us to have.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Our squad is much better suited to 4231 than it is a back 3/5.
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Who you playing out wide? Mbeumo and

comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 18 minutes ago
Oh yeah I'm not arguing that Amorim is doing a good job at all. But you've got a glut of central defenders and number 10s. Granted I'm not an expert on Glasner's 3 ATB system, maybe he'd face the same issues you're talking about. But Iraola uses variants of 4231. IMO your squad is worse suited to that - you're only going to play one of Cunha, Bruno, Zirkzee, or Mount. Or you're wedging them in weaker positions, repeating the same thing Amorim's doing.

It's the club's fault for not having a clear vision about what United is. You really would've thought going all in on EtH's signings would've taught them something about long term planning
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A glut of CBs? I think we have 5, one is injured, another is a teenager.
Bruno is a 10 in the normal sense of the word, Cunha and Mbuemo can play as wide men.
4231?
We could play Mainoo and Cas/Ugarte, behind Mbuemo, Bruno and Cunha with Sesko up front the likes of Amad / Mount / Zirkzee as back-up.

But it's about adapting and tweaking within reason. Squads change all the time, but we have a decent squad which is more than capable of doing better than what it has shown so far in the system it is trying to play

Mbuemo, Bruno and Cunha
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Yeah you don't have a left wing option. Cunha has played 28 games there in his career, over 200 through the middle.

I'm not saying you can't do better, obviously you can. I'm not saying Amorim's system is right. I'm saying without serious investment Iraola would fail trying to replicate what he's doing at Bournemouth. Much easier would be get someone who can immediately do better with what you have.

5 at the back isn't inherently bad, obviously.

comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
Our squad is much better suited to 4231 than it is a back 3/5.
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Who you playing out wide? Mbeumo and
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Cunha/Amad

5 at the back isn't inherently bad, obviously.
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I disagree. Against a back four formation it will always leave a team at a numerical disadvantage in important areas of the pitch.

Neither Cunha or Amad are left wingers.

5atb has won league titles. Glasner does it well. You can not like it or whatever, that's your opinion. But it's not the reason you're so chit.

Sign Glasner and Wharton and you'd be cooking IMO

Cunha’s played on the left most of his career at Wolves. Amad could play there in a pinch if needed.

It’s not optimal as we sold so many wingers, but it suits our defenders, midfielders and attackers better than a back 3/5.

Conte is the only manager to win the prem with a back 5, Glasner doing well doesn’t mean it’s not an inferior formation.

I agree it’s not the reason we are shiiiit, but it’s one of them along with a weak squad and a shiiiiit manager.

But if we are to replace to shiiiiit manager it makes sense to bring in one that will set the team up to suit the squad and that’s with a back four.

Cunha’s played on the left most of his career at Wolves
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That stats don't support that, the eye doesn't, and he doesn't agree either. You can put him there like you can put Bruno in midfield

I worry that the focus becomes too much on formations etc. Of course it is key to have players who can play in a system that suits them.

We don't know if the likes of Glasner and Iraola can adapt to a club like Utd, but there's more to it than just coming in and replicating what they have done at smaller clubs who don't have the resource to truly invest and keep players in the long-term. We can't complain about Amorim being a one -trick pony and not expect Glasner or Iraola to be a little bit adaptable also.

Looking at it in its simplest terms, a top manager will find a way to get the results required with the players that he has at his disposal. And of course over time he will bring in certain types of players who can play in his preferred way. At the highest level, these managers are few and far between.

All we can do, if Amorim does eventually go, is make what seems a good choice and then hopefully they prove they are up to the job. Amorim seems so extreme in the way he wants to play, I believe other managers would be more flexible

He’s played on the left of a front three, go and look at his heat maps he’s playing wide and in the half spaces, it’s not like putting Bruno in cm at all.

And not changing the formation because it’s not optimal for that one player, which is arguable, but is for the other nine outfield players would be pretty moronic. But then this is Manchester United and that’s what the current moron is doing.

I do think the tactics that now have situational back 5s that revert to a 4 have sort of rendered the rigid 5atb less relevant

Darren fair enough man I didn't deep dive it

And agree with the other two points. Arguing over formations is kinda silly to me, it's in the inflexible tactical approach that's the main issue. The pl doesn't let you just do the same thing over and over unless your squad is completely overpowered

And not changing the formation because it’s not optimal for that one player
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Also, for clarity that's not what I'm saying at all. Though somewhat ironically it's what's killing Amorim - your best player playing slightly out of position all the time

comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
And not changing the formation because it’s not optimal for that one player
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Also, for clarity that's not what I'm saying at all. Though somewhat ironically it's what's killing Amorim - your best player playing slightly out of position all the time
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It's the type of thing that maybe in an injury crisis, you might say, let's put Bruno there until others come back, and in one-off games he might be more focused on doing a specific job there, but not as his normal position.

It somewhat reminds me of 2 different situations in the past - when Carrick occasionally was an emergency CB, he was ok, but it wouldn't be a long term answer.

Or with England's so called golden generation, when Scholes was just stuck out on the left which didn't suit him or England at all.

Whilst players can be adaptable, there is a limit to that. So the likes of Cunha and Mbuemo playing in a 4-3-3 front 3 rather than the Amorim 3-4-3 is probably not that much different for them, but the Bruno role would be considerably different.

Play the right players in the positions, not the most talented players in the wrong positions.

comment by Bãleș left boot - Palhinha my goat (U22081)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
And not changing the formation because it’s not optimal for that one player
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Also, for clarity that's not what I'm saying at all. Though somewhat ironically it's what's killing Amorim - your best player playing slightly out of position all the time
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Yeah I know, that was just me ranting about the manager.

Why would Emery take a step down to take over managing a hopeless mess of a club?

comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 6 minutes ago
Why would Emery take a step down to take over managing a hopeless mess of a club?
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Because despite being in a mess we’re still the biggest club in England

comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 55 minutes ago
Why would Emery take a step down to take over managing a hopeless mess of a club?
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Villa have just had to bring in Jadon Sancho to solve their goalscoring problems.

comment by פlǝuƃɥᴉs (U19365)
posted 1 hour, 44 minutes ago
Why would Emery take a step down to take over managing a hopeless mess of a club?
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This old chestnut again. You offer Emery or any Villa player other than Sancho a chance to play for United and I bet they jump at it.

I get peoples arguments about the system etc being a bit of a scapegoat. Yes, the players need to do their jobs at a base level, more than the effect of any system.

However, if the manager is stubborn and tactically inflexible to the point of it being detrimental to the team, what is the point?

No manager has any right to say, this is my way of playing, and the other team will just have to deal with it. News flash, they are, and they are beating us regularly.

Not even Guardiola plays one single way now. He knows that you have to be flexible and adapt to each opponent as they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

Amorim either seems unwilling, or incapable of doing this, for whatever reason.

Cunha is well capable of playing in the left forward position IMO especially if there's a fullback there who bombs on and doesn't come into his space too much.

I really don't know why he hasn't gone with Casemiro in the back three with Yoro and De Ligt either side and Maz (if reports are true he prefers him there) at RWB and Dorgu/Dalot as LWB.

Bruno and Mainoo then nominally in midfield. That, to me seems flexible as you can change it around without having to make subs. Also gives you and extra goal threat on the pitch too.