MrMortimer

Back to the OP.

Do you think he is a racist or just made a racist comment?

RedBlack

Yes calling someone a black C in a confrontation is offensive.
The point is that the word itself doesn’t make it racist though, even though it could be offensive.
One of my team mates is a Muslim, I was telling my sister about the players in the side and I mentioned that he was a Muslim and my nephew (10 years old) immediately said – “Racist”.
We’ve got to stop this knee jerk reaction that anything that mentions race is racist!
If you are playing football and shout “mark the black guy” – is that racist? No.

Batmanu Eboue
I take the point that he is paid to conduct himself in a certain way… but isn’t the question here whether it is racist or not? In that case how much he earns shouldn’t come into it. If he’s a footballer on 100k or a fan in the crowd.

Also why have you picked a six game ban? Surely if he is found to have said something offensive it will be the same as Rooney who was punished for saying something offensive… a 2 game ban? Or is racism worthy of more?
If so – why?

A friend of mine worked with a black bloke who said he was a racist because the first thing that entered his head when he saw him was that he was black.

You couldn't make it up.

If you are playing football and shout “mark the black guy” – is that racist? No.


Of course that's racist! You are identifying him by his skin colour.
Cant you just say, "mark the centre forward instead"!?

Also Muslims (like Christians Jews Hindus and Seeks) are not races, they are religious morals and beliefs. White and black people can be any of these.

What about mark the ginger bloke.

Is that offensive?

Gingerfinch

Do I think he is a racist… I honestly wouldn’t like to judge him based on just those two examples – but my instant reaction would be that is isn’t a racist.

I don’t believe that he thinks people from other races aren’t equal to him. I don’t think he believes in any form of racial superiority. I’m not sure how many people actually see the world in those terms any more!

I think actually the race issue is blown way out of proportion… skin colour is nothing more than skin colour, and it shouldn’t receive special treatment – or be different to any other physical act. Yes calling someone a black C is offensive… but only just as offensive as calling someone a bald c, or a ginger c, or a big nosed c…

No one believes that big nosed people are inferior, or that ginger people don’t deserve equal rights… but they will make comments and jokes about it.

Is the comment itself racist… I don’t think so. I can see why people would interpret it as such. But to me yes it is offensive… but racist? I’m not convinced… I don’t think there is any meaning behind it other than anger. I would prefer to call it an offensive statement with the use of a racial term.

Racism is a farce anyway 'cos it only works one way

The most racist person I know of is Lenny Henry ! I can't stand him because he is so obviously racist against white people, but he gets away with it 'cos he's black ( in the minority )

How's that fair

RedBlack
You have jumped to the conclusion that identifying him as black is racist! That’s not the case at all. How many forms have you filled in where it has asked you for your ethnicity? Are all these forms racist? That is absurd!
Identifying him by his skin colour isn’t racist! There’s no belief of racial superiority behind it – it is a descriptive term. It is the same as “mark the tall lad” or “mark the number 10”.
Is it offensive to describe him as tall? I have identified him by his height is that heightist?
It’s ridiculous!
Racism must be one of the most misused terms around today!

You miss the point about the Muslim comment… the point was that on mentioning the term there was an assumption that it was offensive!
You are quite right that religious discrimination is by definition separate to racism, however racism is rapidly spreading and now discrimination on grounds of nationality is considered racist. Ann Robinson’s anti Welsh comments those years ago were deemed to be racist – even though there is no “Welsh” race.

If you are playing football and shout “mark the black guy” – is that racist? No.


Of course that's racist! You are identifying him by his skin colour.
Cant you just say, "mark the centre forward instead"!?
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I can´t by any reason or logic fathom that my saying "Mark the black guy" is racist and from that I refer back to the title of my article ´Do we really understand racism?´

If you are playing football and shout “mark the black guy” – is that racist? No.


Of course that's racist! You are identifying him by his skin colour.
Cant you just say, "mark the centre forward instead"!?
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I can´t by any reason or logic fathom that my saying "Mark the black guy" is racist and from that I refer back to the title of my article ´Do we really understand racism?´

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I come back to my 'ginger' comment. Nearly all opposing players called me ginger for two reasons.

1. They didn't know my name.

2. It's common bloody sense.

Dr – yes that’s the point perhaps, but if we can’t agree what racism is… then what does it actually mean in practical terms?
Do we go with a majority rule? If enough people think something is racist then it is…
The open rule? If anyone finds it racist then it is…
(Both are hugely dangerous roads to go down!)
Or try to actually rid ourselves of the media hype and social baggage and work out a sensible guide for what is actually racist?

Mr Mortimer.........

Its complicated.

I am aware and I admit that in that football game I racially abused the player. In no attempt to excuse it, I was trying to portray my emotional state at the time which was a cocktail of pain, anger and fear (fear that I might be seriously injured).

I had never before or since racially abused anyone else.

So how many times do you need to racially abuse people to be considered a racist, and under what circumstances?

how is Lenny Henry racist?

If you are playing football and shout “mark the black guy” – is that racist? No.


Of course that's racist! You are identifying him by his skin colour.
Cant you just say, "mark the centre forward instead"!?
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What's wrong with identifying someone by their skin colour, they are what they are, are you trying to tell me when crimewatch is on tv and the police issue a description of the offender and say he was 6ft2 white with shoulder length hair they are guilty of racism?

"Batmanu Eboue
I take the point that he is paid to conduct himself in a certain way… but isn’t the question here whether it is racist or not? In that case how much he earns shouldn’t come into it. If he’s a footballer on 100k or a fan in the crowd."

Well what he has done (if he did do it) is racist, simple as that. It doesn't actually make him a racist, though. I mean if I go out and get extremely drunk one night it doesn't make me an alcoholic and like JT I'd probably regret it the next day!

"Also why have you picked a six game ban? Surely if he is found to have said something offensive it will be the same as Rooney who was punished for saying something offensive… a 2 game ban? Or is racism worthy of more?
If so – why?"

Didn't Rooney shout eff off at a camera or something along those lines? I think racially abusing somebody is far worse than that. In fact I'd argue that racially abusing somebody is worse than taking recreational drugs that footballers are getting 6month+ bans for.

Lenny Henry may or may not be a racist, I have no idea, I don't know the guy, what he is though is a hypocrite.

He will appear on television whenever anyone will have him on their show condemning stereotyping, calling it lazy and borring, as well as not funny in the slightest.

This from a man who used to pretend to be an African, running around shouting "Katanga Katanga !!" and making screeching noises which had more than a passing resemblance to a monkey,
honestly, you couldn't make it up.

As a side note, I watched Jim Davidson being interviewed a while ago, and he said that during the 70's and 80's when he did his act, he was never once called a racist by a black man, just middle class white people who like to be offended on everyone else' behalf, the "Angry of Tunbridge wells" brigade he called them

Redblack - if Lenny Henry makes racist comments is he a racist? According to you identifying someone by their colour is racist...

So if he ever uses the term "white" or "black" he is guilty of racism isn't he?

I know of at least two sketches where he uses those terms...

lenny henry...."ooooookaaaaaaaaaaaay"

"Well what he has done (if he did do it) is racist, simple as that. It doesn't actually make him a racist, though. "

So he cannot be labelled a racist, but what he has done was racist, which means in your eyes he is not a racist despite doing something racist

I think I'm getting a nose bleed

Eboue

I understand you think racism is worse than other forms of abuse... I'm asking why.

Why is calling someone a racial term worse than calling them something else offensive?

"So he cannot be labelled a racist, but what he has done was racist, which means in your eyes he is not a racist despite doing something racist"

I think you need to read what I said again. I said in my opinion he is not a racist despite having made a racist comment (if he did make it). I didn't say he can't be labelled a racist, I just said I myself am not labelling him a racist. People say stupid things when they are angry, I am sure you have done likewise

"Why is calling someone a racial term worse than calling them something else offensive?"

I think you need to brush up on American history. Black people were hundreds of years we considered an inferior race and hated for it, and to this day it still happens when it shouldn't. People can get sacked from their jobs for making racial remarks, hell Andy Gray got the boot for being sexist! I think the least Terry can do is count the hundreds of thousands he will be paid when he is sitting back on the couch watching a match he should have been playing should he be found guilty.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

If Terry called Ferdinand a jewish then there would be the same outrage. I don't think sexism is any worse than racism, in fact I think being racist is worse, far worse. If Andy Gray can lose his job for making sexist remarks then John Terry can get a lengthy ban for making racist remarks. I don't see what is so difficult for you to understand about my pretty straight forward comment. You seem to just be excusing it as people verbally abuse each other all the time. What point are you actually trying to make? That calling somebody a black <insert swear word> is no worse than say calling somebody a stupid <insert swear word>?

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