It is not about being optimistic or pessimistic, it is just a question of looking at things objectively.
There is no evidence at all to show that Kean can achieve 16 points from the next 18 points available, whoever we play.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong but in just over a month I fully expect us to still be in the relegation zone, have 6 less games to save ourselves, be getting ready to play Liverpool and Man Utd away and thinking we're well and truly ******.
Is there any news of Dann - his return would help the defencee enormously. And Kean should give priority to sorting out who should be marking the right back.
On Saturday the goal came from a cross by Ivanovic, probably the most lumbering right back we will face this season. But it's been a constant problem. Sagna, Zabaleta and Walker have all been allowed the freedom of the right wing.
It seems to be Hoilett's job to mark the right back, but this has two drawbacks. He doesn't do it very well, and it takes our best player out of the forward line. Perhaps it should be Rochina. He has been working harder in recent games, but I'm not sure that he has the defensive skill. Pedersen could do it. He has a great awareness of danger, but he's now in central midfield. He seems to have lost some pace too. But we'll continue to concede crucial goals until the problem is solved.
I have decided less than10 points out of those games and I will be joining the vocal 'Kean out' campaign (after game only as it does no good whatsoever during the game)
If he gets 16 points the Greeks will probably pinch him for their next PM!
As a very optimistic fan myself I wouldn't say I'm optimistic about the next 6 games, it is more a sense that I feel fairly certain that the results are going to come.
I believe the players we have and the recent level of performance leave me confident in thinking this. It does however need to be kick started by beating Wigan.
As a very optimistic fan myself I wouldn't say I'm optimistic about the next 6 games, it is more a sense that I feel fairly certain that the results are going to come.""
You have been saying that for months now MaccyT. When we beat Blackpool, when we beat Wigan, when we beat Newcastle and that was all LAST season.
Law of averages suggests that better results will come at some stage.
However, we now need some consistent results and I have no faith in Kean to achieve any consistency in results at all.
We currently have the predictable early season poor points tally more informed fans predicted before the season began. We still have the same manager which no-one could have predicted after such an appalingly bad run of results.
We have been performing consistently at a much better level since the QPR match, and all told we played reasonably well at Fulham and kept City quiet for an hour which nobody else seems to have managed.
Had we been gifted a little bit of good fortune we wouldn't be in the bottom 3, I'd mainly point to the Everton and Norwich fixtures amongst others and Yakubu and Hanley missing open goals from 6 yards against Chelsea.
Maybe it is because I don't hate the man but I cannot not see the fact that he has settled on his preferred XI, we are much better defensively and are performing to a level that I would deem well above our league position.
Of course the proof is in the pudding and we simply need results, I believe they will come and that changing managers right now would do more damage than good. Given how we are playing it looks more likely than not than we can start winning games, measure that risk against appointing a new manager in the hope that once they makes their changes to the team and tactics we start winning games, I would genuinely vote in favour of keeping Kean, certainly through this run of more winnable games.
That is simply the perspective I have formed from watching how we are playing and listening to how positive the players still come across.
Wild Rover the stoke game is away I think. Not 100% sure but if it is that will not be easy.
Mcteeth I kind of agree with you but if we were to get beaten by Wigan what would your stance be. It is all very well saying the next six games but if we lose the !st and 2nd you must admit it would be the right time to kick his little *** out of the club.
I have nothing against the guy personally, I just think he was the wrong choice for the job. Which I think alot of others did so he was always off to a bad start.
Or is he really Agent Kean?
"Given how we are playing it looks more likely than not than we can start winning games"
Na. It looks like we will concede goals whoever we play and struggle to get points.
It is amazing you do not think we are in trouble under Kean.
I will go to Wigan again like I did last year under Kean, the match I believe he should have been sacked immediately after.
Let's hope our central defenders are not storming down the left wing after two minutes, which happened with Nelsen last year and we avoid going 4-1 down again.
I have no confidence in winning that game. None at all. I have zero confidence in any game under Kean and like I say, all is transpiring exactly as predicted by some long, long, ago.
I have nothing against him personally either and actually think he comes across very well in interviews. The krux of the issue is that he was thrown in at the deep end as opposed to cutting his teeth at a lower level, like Owen Coyle at St Johnstone or Paul Lambert at Livingston, Wycombe and Colchester.
They would have gone through an easier learning curve well away from the media spot light and made mistakes at a much lower level.
Is it fair on Rovers fans that we've had to go through Kean making mistakes and having an extremely steep learning curve with the media and fans on his back 24/7, no probably not, but that is the situation we've been through and we are where we are.
As fans we can either support and help Kean which in turn will help the players or protest...
Personally I think he has learnt a lot and is close to getting things right. He has stopped changing the team around, put more emphasis on defending whilst maintaining a young and energetic attacking threat, but for a slice of luck we'd be just about looking okay I feel.
Of course we have to start winning games, given that Bolton and Fulham won at Wigan and Wolves beat them yesterday it is simply not an option to go there and lose. Draw minimum but really need to go and win.
Should we lose I think there will be a big reaction in the stand from the fans and the players may well start questioning where to go from there.
MT, you keep talking about the past and points we should have won with a slice of luck here and there. You have forgotten Arsenal, ie points we never deserved, but hey ho.
This is professional sport my friend, you can bleat about luck all you like, but it is not an excuse that is widely accepted within professional sportsmen in my experience, who normally try and distance themselves from complaining about 'Lady Luck' as it makes them look like a complete whiner and tart.
Rovers fans are embarrasing us at the moment constantly bitching about luck and refereeing decisions. It is though we are the only club in world football who might have been on the wrong end of refeereing decisions... Time to man up and talk about the football.
On the subject of the football, and our current position, do you like the look of the league table under Kean? That is us, down at 19th just for clarity.
9 Norwich 11 2 2 1 9 7 1 2 3 7 11 -2 13
10 Swansea 11 3 2 0 8 1 0 2 4 4 14 -3 13
11 QPR 11 1 3 2 5 9 2 0 3 5 11 -10 12
12 Stoke 11 2 2 1 5 4 1 1 4 3 15 -11 12
13 Wolverhampton 11 2 1 3 8 10 1 1 3 4 8 -6 11
14 West Brom 11 1 1 3 3 5 2 1 3 6 11 -7 11
15 Sunderland 11 1 2 2 9 7 1 2 3 5 6 1 10
16 Fulham 11 1 3 2 11 9 1 1 3 3 6 -1 10
17 Everton 10 1 1 3 5 7 2 0 3 6 8 -4 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Bolton 11 1 0 5 9 17 2 0 3 9 10 -9 9
19 Blackburn 11 1 0 5 6 13 0 3 2 7 11 -11 6
20 Wigan 11 1 1 3 5 8 0 1 5 2 12 -13 5
Well the resurgence of Kean support seems to be good for board activity at least! Must say I thought it'd take more than a few respectable performances and a couple of draws against fellow relegation candidates to change things though. Going from rubbish performances and rubbish results to average performances and rubbish results is a cause for optimism apparently. I dunno, I must be missing something.
"4 wins at home, Wigan away and I'd take a point at Sunderland.
Too optimistic?"
No, not at all.
We are Man City fans aren't we?
With just 5 wins in 30+ games I'm struggling to see us getting 4 wins in 6! Maybe I'm a pessimist...
""I have nothing against him personally either and actually think he comes across very well in interviews.""
Wow. No. Just no. Please Maccy. Please. Stop it soon. It is not funny anymore.
Please don't sack Kean.
He's doing us proud atm
Stop what? I'm apologising for my opinion of the man. I'm not going to just hate the man and everything he says.
My thoughts on Kean seem to be supported by Rovers players, football pundits (not saying a lot) and other football Managers, we can't all be brain washed.
Rovers players have seen what happened to Diouf, pundits are a waste of oxygen and name a time when any manager has said another should be sacked...
Mcteeth: Kean wasn't thrown in at the deep end it was an orchestrated removal of Big Sam even Karen Brady from West Ham suggested as much in her column. He didn't deserve the job, shouldn't have got it and it was all to strange the way it happened.
As for him coming across well in interviews anybody can talk a good game and if he mentions the word statistics one more time i will scream. They do NOT win matches.
I'll admit he comes across very well in his interviews. However I didn't think he came across so well as to convince otherwise intelligent people that he is not an awful manager.
Mcteeth: Kean wasn't thrown in at the deep end it was an orchestrated removal of Big Sam even Karen Brady from West Ham suggested as much in her column.
--------------------------------------------
Karen Brady's column, must be a real page turner and only based massive facts...
In one post you state that your view is supported by football people.
"My thoughts on Kean seem to be supported by Rovers players, football pundits (not saying a lot) and other football Managers, we can't all be brain washed."
But then you mock a football person with a different view?
"Karen Brady's column, must be a real page turner and only based massive facts... "
You know you are a very bad team when opposition managers constantly say nice things about you!!
Karen Brady is not a football person.
Right now bare with me OOJW, you can at least admit to us being much improved on the pitch since Fulham away, if not then, certainly QPR away. And we are coming in to a much easier run of 6-7 fixtures, that is essentially fact.
If are performance levels continue in the same vein a betting man would go with us winning a few of these games, again this is a very logical assumption, please ignore previous stats, not because they are insignificant!
You want Kean sacked right now, looking at Venky's appointment of Kean and not a top name I can't see us pulling out wads of cash and getting Hughes or MON, I think we are looking more at the Curbishly level, or god forbid Sven
Given that the players are happy and looking much more settled in Kean's system and playing relatively well, you cannot be convinced that a mediocre replacement or probably caretaker for a few games is going to come in and suddenly win 3-4 games on the spin.
Problem is Maccy it's hard to predict the future without looking at past efforts! It's hard to see 3 or 4 wins in 6 when we've only managed 5 in 30+
I do agree, but I did specifically ask for previous stats to not be mentioned!
Whilst I agree that due to his poor record it is difficult to see us suddenly winning 4 games, but you must agree their is a degree of weighting against how we have a more settled starting XI who are playing consistently better than we have been previously.
This position versus another Managerial change, I'd rather stick with where we are and see what happens.
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Page 1 of 2
posted on 7/11/11
It is not about being optimistic or pessimistic, it is just a question of looking at things objectively.
There is no evidence at all to show that Kean can achieve 16 points from the next 18 points available, whoever we play.
posted on 7/11/11
I sincerely hope I'm wrong but in just over a month I fully expect us to still be in the relegation zone, have 6 less games to save ourselves, be getting ready to play Liverpool and Man Utd away and thinking we're well and truly ******.
posted on 7/11/11
Is there any news of Dann - his return would help the defencee enormously. And Kean should give priority to sorting out who should be marking the right back.
On Saturday the goal came from a cross by Ivanovic, probably the most lumbering right back we will face this season. But it's been a constant problem. Sagna, Zabaleta and Walker have all been allowed the freedom of the right wing.
It seems to be Hoilett's job to mark the right back, but this has two drawbacks. He doesn't do it very well, and it takes our best player out of the forward line. Perhaps it should be Rochina. He has been working harder in recent games, but I'm not sure that he has the defensive skill. Pedersen could do it. He has a great awareness of danger, but he's now in central midfield. He seems to have lost some pace too. But we'll continue to concede crucial goals until the problem is solved.
posted on 7/11/11
I have decided less than10 points out of those games and I will be joining the vocal 'Kean out' campaign (after game only as it does no good whatsoever during the game)
If he gets 16 points the Greeks will probably pinch him for their next PM!
posted on 7/11/11
As a very optimistic fan myself I wouldn't say I'm optimistic about the next 6 games, it is more a sense that I feel fairly certain that the results are going to come.
I believe the players we have and the recent level of performance leave me confident in thinking this. It does however need to be kick started by beating Wigan.
posted on 7/11/11
As a very optimistic fan myself I wouldn't say I'm optimistic about the next 6 games, it is more a sense that I feel fairly certain that the results are going to come.""
You have been saying that for months now MaccyT. When we beat Blackpool, when we beat Wigan, when we beat Newcastle and that was all LAST season.
Law of averages suggests that better results will come at some stage.
However, we now need some consistent results and I have no faith in Kean to achieve any consistency in results at all.
We currently have the predictable early season poor points tally more informed fans predicted before the season began. We still have the same manager which no-one could have predicted after such an appalingly bad run of results.
posted on 7/11/11
We have been performing consistently at a much better level since the QPR match, and all told we played reasonably well at Fulham and kept City quiet for an hour which nobody else seems to have managed.
Had we been gifted a little bit of good fortune we wouldn't be in the bottom 3, I'd mainly point to the Everton and Norwich fixtures amongst others and Yakubu and Hanley missing open goals from 6 yards against Chelsea.
Maybe it is because I don't hate the man but I cannot not see the fact that he has settled on his preferred XI, we are much better defensively and are performing to a level that I would deem well above our league position.
Of course the proof is in the pudding and we simply need results, I believe they will come and that changing managers right now would do more damage than good. Given how we are playing it looks more likely than not than we can start winning games, measure that risk against appointing a new manager in the hope that once they makes their changes to the team and tactics we start winning games, I would genuinely vote in favour of keeping Kean, certainly through this run of more winnable games.
That is simply the perspective I have formed from watching how we are playing and listening to how positive the players still come across.
posted on 7/11/11
Wild Rover the stoke game is away I think. Not 100% sure but if it is that will not be easy.
Mcteeth I kind of agree with you but if we were to get beaten by Wigan what would your stance be. It is all very well saying the next six games but if we lose the !st and 2nd you must admit it would be the right time to kick his little *** out of the club.
I have nothing against the guy personally, I just think he was the wrong choice for the job. Which I think alot of others did so he was always off to a bad start.
Or is he really Agent Kean?
posted on 7/11/11
"Given how we are playing it looks more likely than not than we can start winning games"
Na. It looks like we will concede goals whoever we play and struggle to get points.
It is amazing you do not think we are in trouble under Kean.
I will go to Wigan again like I did last year under Kean, the match I believe he should have been sacked immediately after.
Let's hope our central defenders are not storming down the left wing after two minutes, which happened with Nelsen last year and we avoid going 4-1 down again.
I have no confidence in winning that game. None at all. I have zero confidence in any game under Kean and like I say, all is transpiring exactly as predicted by some long, long, ago.
posted on 7/11/11
I have nothing against him personally either and actually think he comes across very well in interviews. The krux of the issue is that he was thrown in at the deep end as opposed to cutting his teeth at a lower level, like Owen Coyle at St Johnstone or Paul Lambert at Livingston, Wycombe and Colchester.
They would have gone through an easier learning curve well away from the media spot light and made mistakes at a much lower level.
Is it fair on Rovers fans that we've had to go through Kean making mistakes and having an extremely steep learning curve with the media and fans on his back 24/7, no probably not, but that is the situation we've been through and we are where we are.
As fans we can either support and help Kean which in turn will help the players or protest...
Personally I think he has learnt a lot and is close to getting things right. He has stopped changing the team around, put more emphasis on defending whilst maintaining a young and energetic attacking threat, but for a slice of luck we'd be just about looking okay I feel.
Of course we have to start winning games, given that Bolton and Fulham won at Wigan and Wolves beat them yesterday it is simply not an option to go there and lose. Draw minimum but really need to go and win.
Should we lose I think there will be a big reaction in the stand from the fans and the players may well start questioning where to go from there.
posted on 7/11/11
MT, you keep talking about the past and points we should have won with a slice of luck here and there. You have forgotten Arsenal, ie points we never deserved, but hey ho.
This is professional sport my friend, you can bleat about luck all you like, but it is not an excuse that is widely accepted within professional sportsmen in my experience, who normally try and distance themselves from complaining about 'Lady Luck' as it makes them look like a complete whiner and tart.
Rovers fans are embarrasing us at the moment constantly bitching about luck and refereeing decisions. It is though we are the only club in world football who might have been on the wrong end of refeereing decisions... Time to man up and talk about the football.
On the subject of the football, and our current position, do you like the look of the league table under Kean? That is us, down at 19th just for clarity.
9 Norwich 11 2 2 1 9 7 1 2 3 7 11 -2 13
10 Swansea 11 3 2 0 8 1 0 2 4 4 14 -3 13
11 QPR 11 1 3 2 5 9 2 0 3 5 11 -10 12
12 Stoke 11 2 2 1 5 4 1 1 4 3 15 -11 12
13 Wolverhampton 11 2 1 3 8 10 1 1 3 4 8 -6 11
14 West Brom 11 1 1 3 3 5 2 1 3 6 11 -7 11
15 Sunderland 11 1 2 2 9 7 1 2 3 5 6 1 10
16 Fulham 11 1 3 2 11 9 1 1 3 3 6 -1 10
17 Everton 10 1 1 3 5 7 2 0 3 6 8 -4 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Bolton 11 1 0 5 9 17 2 0 3 9 10 -9 9
19 Blackburn 11 1 0 5 6 13 0 3 2 7 11 -11 6
20 Wigan 11 1 1 3 5 8 0 1 5 2 12 -13 5
posted on 7/11/11
Well the resurgence of Kean support seems to be good for board activity at least! Must say I thought it'd take more than a few respectable performances and a couple of draws against fellow relegation candidates to change things though. Going from rubbish performances and rubbish results to average performances and rubbish results is a cause for optimism apparently. I dunno, I must be missing something.
posted on 7/11/11
"4 wins at home, Wigan away and I'd take a point at Sunderland.
Too optimistic?"
No, not at all.
We are Man City fans aren't we?
With just 5 wins in 30+ games I'm struggling to see us getting 4 wins in 6! Maybe I'm a pessimist...
posted on 7/11/11
""I have nothing against him personally either and actually think he comes across very well in interviews.""
Wow. No. Just no. Please Maccy. Please. Stop it soon. It is not funny anymore.
posted on 7/11/11
Please don't sack Kean.
He's doing us proud atm
posted on 7/11/11
Stop what? I'm apologising for my opinion of the man. I'm not going to just hate the man and everything he says.
My thoughts on Kean seem to be supported by Rovers players, football pundits (not saying a lot) and other football Managers, we can't all be brain washed.
posted on 7/11/11
I'm not apologising*
posted on 7/11/11
Rovers players have seen what happened to Diouf, pundits are a waste of oxygen and name a time when any manager has said another should be sacked...
posted on 7/11/11
Mcteeth: Kean wasn't thrown in at the deep end it was an orchestrated removal of Big Sam even Karen Brady from West Ham suggested as much in her column. He didn't deserve the job, shouldn't have got it and it was all to strange the way it happened.
As for him coming across well in interviews anybody can talk a good game and if he mentions the word statistics one more time i will scream. They do NOT win matches.
posted on 7/11/11
I'll admit he comes across very well in his interviews. However I didn't think he came across so well as to convince otherwise intelligent people that he is not an awful manager.
posted on 7/11/11
Mcteeth: Kean wasn't thrown in at the deep end it was an orchestrated removal of Big Sam even Karen Brady from West Ham suggested as much in her column.
--------------------------------------------
Karen Brady's column, must be a real page turner and only based massive facts...
posted on 8/11/11
In one post you state that your view is supported by football people.
"My thoughts on Kean seem to be supported by Rovers players, football pundits (not saying a lot) and other football Managers, we can't all be brain washed."
But then you mock a football person with a different view?
"Karen Brady's column, must be a real page turner and only based massive facts... "
You know you are a very bad team when opposition managers constantly say nice things about you!!
posted on 8/11/11
Karen Brady is not a football person.
Right now bare with me OOJW, you can at least admit to us being much improved on the pitch since Fulham away, if not then, certainly QPR away. And we are coming in to a much easier run of 6-7 fixtures, that is essentially fact.
If are performance levels continue in the same vein a betting man would go with us winning a few of these games, again this is a very logical assumption, please ignore previous stats, not because they are insignificant!
You want Kean sacked right now, looking at Venky's appointment of Kean and not a top name I can't see us pulling out wads of cash and getting Hughes or MON, I think we are looking more at the Curbishly level, or god forbid Sven
Given that the players are happy and looking much more settled in Kean's system and playing relatively well, you cannot be convinced that a mediocre replacement or probably caretaker for a few games is going to come in and suddenly win 3-4 games on the spin.
posted on 8/11/11
Problem is Maccy it's hard to predict the future without looking at past efforts! It's hard to see 3 or 4 wins in 6 when we've only managed 5 in 30+
posted on 8/11/11
I do agree, but I did specifically ask for previous stats to not be mentioned!
Whilst I agree that due to his poor record it is difficult to see us suddenly winning 4 games, but you must agree their is a degree of weighting against how we have a more settled starting XI who are playing consistently better than we have been previously.
This position versus another Managerial change, I'd rather stick with where we are and see what happens.
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