Didn't say it was, I'm speaking of all forms of discrimination, and prejudice.

I'm saying discrimination is acting upon your prejudices that's all.

And anyway, I notice you put much effort into this Article, does that mean you are defending a man who dishes out racial abuse just to get under another mans skin?

racialist or racist

The words are often used interchangeably but a distinction can be made. A racialist is someone who believes in the superiority of one race (usually white) over another (usually black or coloured), and who voices their views when surrounded (and outnumbered) by representatives of the 'other' race.

A racist is more of a theorist, believing that race is what determines a person's characteristics, so that some races are superior to others.

racist or racial its all discrimination.

Just trying to figure out which word in my post is banned. If this post appears I have absolutely no idea.
Racism
Race
Racial
(And if it appears, please remove it mods!)

I'm mystified. Have spent a few minutes trying various synonyms to get the post past the offensive language censor, even though I couldn't see any words that can be construed as offensive. Maybe it was some comic typo that I didn't spot.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that the OP is right that the charges don't necessarily suggest that Suarez is a racist. It's perfectly possible to do what he is accused of doing without being a card carrying racist and I'd be surprised to find that the primary motivation for such an act was ideology. However, if the charge were proved, it would suggest he is unprincipled and at the least doesn't have a big problem with racism.

Right, let's see if it works this time.

It worked

Whilst i don't want to get into the whole racist v racially abusive argument, I believe that one crucial thing has come out of this. That is that the charge is of being racially abusive, not racist. So hopefully the silly spick gets done! (Don't judge me. I meant it as a term of endearment)!

comment by Sir Bubbly - Wum Nation (U9126) posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago

"I notice you put much effort into this Article, does that mean you are defending a man who dishes out racial abuse just to get under another mans skin?"


No I'm not defending that at all, remember this article is about education not Suarez. I merely wish to clarify things because I'm fed up of people going on about Suarez, Blatter, Poyet and all while not able to differenciate between the terms used and how to use them appropriately!

The OP's arrogance is merely a mask for their own feeble attempts at misdirection.

Those of us who are actually "educated" know far more about the issue being overlooked. 'Racism' may have a lexicographal definition (and I am not even sure the OP has even bothered researching this thouroughly). This includes specific defining features, but the concept itself also has far more relevant etymological roots and, therefore, significance.

For a start 'race' is a very abstract term. It came to be part of popular discourse only during the 19th centruy when politcally motivated (and bad) scientists introduced the term to (falsely) explain, and even justify, sinister phenomena such as colonisation, imperialism and even slavery.

The same kind of 'science' was also used to prove that women were different (inferior) enough to only be suaitable for certian roles in human society.

What we are really talking about here is the presence in human society of something that all of us are attributed with, and that is varying degrees of xenophobia. It is an unfortunate feature of virtually every species on the planet.

Fear of 'the other' has a biogenetic use for all species it helps one avoid the real dangers that prey may encounter. However, it is when that fear becomes irrational (or phobic) that problems in human society emerge.

Mr Suarez (for example) is xenohobic purely and simply because all humans are xenophobic. What is relevant though is just what happens to someones emotional drives behind their behaviour in what is a highly stressful situation (in this instance an over-hyped, and competitive game of football).

I don't personally 'know' the parties involved (nor do I personally 'know' Mr Terry) but my extensive research into such issues would lead me to hypothesise that this people are probably overburdened with an unhealthy and anti-social level of the aforementioned xenophobia. This is not entirely their fault of course, because humans have consistently refused to deal with it rationally. Indeed the misdirection of the OP is exactly the kind of rhetorical verisimilitude that facilitates the presence of 'racism'. Basically they are merely making excuses.

I despair of my species sometimes and I really see no way out.

I'm not excusing racial abuse, racism, discrimination or anything, I'm merely trying to get people to standardise the way they use such terms, this would help negate excuses because if we all used such terms with a uniform understanding people could not hide behind ambiguity!

So the use of abusive language which involves a racial term, (a term connected to someone's race) is called racial abuse not racism.

------------------------------------------

And how exactly would you, as an outside observer, differentiate between the two?

Would you know that a person who makes a racist comment is or is not intending to imply that they are deeming the person to whom they are making that comment to to be inferior than themselves because of their race?

In many cases, there is no distinction between the two. If it was as, excuse me, black and white as you are making out, then the issue would not be as predominant and indeed have as many social implications as it quite clearly does.

You, in my opinion Lamsby, are being far too literal in your understanding of this whole issue. And that is your own downfall.

And to write this post, from the position that you clearly did (that is, to pull other people up on their supposed "misunderstanding" of the terms involved) is, quite frankly, shocking.

"So saying “you effing n***er is not racism"

Let us know how you get on next time you try saying that.

I agree with the OP.

There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding this issue, each incident has to be taken on its own merits and to claim that somebody is racist because they have used racially abusive language displays ignorance on the part of the accuser.

I don't think you can be a 'bit racist', you either are or you aren't and considering that Suarez has spoken in the past about being pleased to help people of all colours(?) through his charitable work, I find it difficult to then suggest that he is a racist, that is just my opinion.

This reminds me of the old 'Man U' arguments that used to happen on the old 606. Some United fans were adamant that anybody who used the term was insulting the Munich dead. Yet the term is commonplace and in most cases was being used as an abbreviation, even Robbo, Bruce et al use the term. It was the intent of the user that determined whether the term was being used maliciously or not and unless it was specified, that motive could not be determined by simply reading the comment. Same thing applies here imo, Suarez has insisted his words were not racially insulting, yet people have decided that that is irrelevant because he said it, that's not good enough reason to brand him a racist.

I agree with the OP.

------------------------

Oh no you don't. Please Billy, after everything you've written on this subject, you can't possibly agree with the OP.

For the OP's reasoning is not that interpretation of words uttered out of the mouths of individuals renders anything racist or not. The OP's reasoning is something completely different than that.

And I'm utterly shocked that you, after reading all your input into this topic, would write what you have just done.

Smiley needed - head on hands, total shock, disbelief smiley.

Ripleys Cat

Yeah you're right.

I should have qualified my comment a bit better, I should have said that I agree with the OP in that there is a complete misunderstanding by some people on this topic.

I do not believe that simply uttering a racially abusive comment makes somebody a racist, that is what some people are suggesting.

My mate called me a black **** once when we were having a bit of an argument, I am mixed-race by the way, afterwards he apologised and did not want me to think he was a racist, he is not...and I did not think he was!

I know you may find it difficult to believe that somebody would be irritated by me, that was years ago when I was opinionated!

I should have said that I agree with the OP in that there is a complete misunderstanding by some people on this topic.

-----------------------

Phew, thank god for that!!!!

Billy, for what it's worth, you've taken a lot of flak for your comments on this issue, but in my mind you've made some of the best comments that I've read on the whole thing.

That others can't separate your comments on this issue with any agenda they may have with you in the past, well that's their problem. Not yours.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

In the OP's defence, there are a lot of people who misconstrue what the meaning of racism actually is.

However, I agree with you Rooney Rocket. With pretty much everything you wrote

RipleysCat

Thank goodness for that! I read your initial post with horror and realised my mistake, thanks for pointing it out!

As for the United fans who cannot separate my comments from my obvious 'anti-United' stance then that is expected. I am glad that this thread, which I enjoy, is mostly devoid of the usual nonsense that accompany my comments.

--------------
Rooney's rocket

I have amended my comment on agreeing with the OP in my last post, it was badly worded and was not intended in the way that it has been interpreted....<climb-down smiley>!

I appreciate your replies and input. I do of course appreciate that a racial slur can be a manifestation of racism, all I want to get across is that it's not necessarily so. The problem we have is if people interchange the terms they use thinking it doesn't matter, thinking they all basically mean the same thing, then the message can be distorted, misconstrude and lost.

I feel it necessary to use the correct terminology so as to clearly identify what is being argued.

I can't understand why Kick It Out describe racial abuse as discrimination, this would suggest that the person would not have been abused if they had not been of a different ethnicity to the abuser, and although that may be possible I doubt it is so likely!

I can't understand why Kick It Out describe racial abuse as discrimination, this would suggest that the person would not have been abused if they had not been of a different ethnicity to the abuser, and although that may be possible I doubt it is so likely!
***

Sorry Lambsy, but some/most/all racist/racialsts, call them what you like, insult/abuse/discriminate against, call it what you like, people who are not the same colour/ethenticity as themselves solely because they are not the same colour/ethenticity as themselves, and for no other reason. And by doing so they are breaking the law of the land. Not many non racist/racialists would feel the need to insult somebody by bringing skin colour into the argument. If you do yourself or claim that it isnt a problem bringing skin colour into your argument, but claim to be a non racist/racialist, then in my book, you should take a look at yourself. This is my opinion. I am not claiming to be educating anybody about the situation, I have not academic qualifications or certificates in this area. It's just how I feel and I don't think it is in line with your thoughts on this matter. That's all.

But a good debate.

Whiteside, I personally believe, for the most part, racial slurs are used because it is known they will be hurtful, the abuser will use whatever term applies best for greatest effect, the term used will be dependant upon the target; race, sexuality, nationality, gender etc.

So I don't think they abuse black people because they are black or because they believe them to be inferior or wish to treat them in a discriminatory manner, (certainly not on the football pitch anyway) rather they use a racial slur because it's what will hurt that black person the most, therefore this would not be discrimination or racism, it would be racial abuse, which still is unacceptable, but then I believe all abuse should be unacceptable!