I am not disappointed in SSL, Berner, Ball or Johnson leaving. These players were never going to consistantly play for us. However Fernandes tended to be one of the better players when we played poorly, showing signs of pure quality and when clubs like Udinese are coming in for him it is concerning what we are throwing away. Having said that it was only a loan anyway, and in NP I trust.
To be honest, if we had sold/cancelled contracts/loaned any of our midfielders or strikers (minus Nugent), I wouldn't be that devastated, which says something about our quality going forward in recent times.
St Ledger - I think as back-up, he's decent to have and put in some reasonable performances when Mills was suspended. His performances at International level have also shown that he has the talent. The issue is that he wanted to leave and because these are the circumstances, I feel it's always best to get rid of want-away players for the benefit of the squad. So, no disappointment for me.
Fernandes - Showed some promise to start with and is a tidy enough player who probably suits mopping up in front of the back four. Sven preferred to play him on one of the sides of the diamond - I guess for his energy to get up and down that flank but it always seemed like he was too far up the pitch for me and didn't have the ability to influence the play enough and couldn't play either 'killer passes' or run at players like you should do being in the position he was. Then with Nigel, the 4-4-2 isn't conducive to one player sitting and holding so he didn't really fit into the system. Given our surplus of midfielders, if we were to lose one, then (considering we have a very similar player in Abe and that he's a loanee) Gelson would be the one I'd be least disappointed to see go. Again has talent but another one who himself wanted to go and so not really upset about this one either.
Johnson - Probably the only one I would be disappointed to see go - but that would be due to his past performances rather than what he has done here. We all talk about this creative midfielder to challenge Wellens and I agree that we need one, but this guy could have been that player. If we could get him fit, then I think he'd be great for us but we've been saying the same since August now and he looks no nearer now than he was then. So if we can't get him fit, then it's probably best again that he leave and we can sign someone to play this role in our side. His signing was a gamble that would have been great had it have worked, but it hasn't and we haven't lost anything because of it.
I trust Nigel to build a good squad because, both at Leicester and Hull, he's been very successful at moulding a squad that he wants. The difference is the previous two times he had a summer to do it whereas now he only has January which is notoriously hard to do business in but needs must and, in Steve Walsh, we also have one of the best scouts in the game so as long as we can buy the players we need, I think we still have half a chance of sneaking into the play-offs.
Yes, I am both concerned and disappointed, for precisely the reasons you give in your second para, Dunge.
I don't see our present "first XI" as good enough to get us out of this division, and I have a horrible fear that Pearson won't look beyond the honest-but-workmanlike, when he goes into the market this month. I'd love to be proved wrong.
I am actually most disappointed to see SSL leave.
This is a player with pedigree at this level who will be turning out for his Country in the summer.
We haven't seen the best of him because we haven't given him a run in the team and frankly, anyone playing alongside Bamba can look fragile.
I always wanted to see SSL and Mills given a run in the side and perhaps Bamba should have been contesting a mid-field spot. But then I am old-fashioned and believe that defenders are there to defend.
Good luck Sean. You will undoubtedly fit in at your next club and I suspect many of us will be asking why you didn't gel at Leicester when you show how good a
player you really are.
St Ledger - I feel a bit sorry for the guy actually. He's gone from being a regular at Preston (albeit at a relegated club) and also in the Irish national team where he has been in a hugely successful partnership with Richard Dunne, to not even getting on the bench here and then being transfer-listed. Clearly the 'relationship' between himself and Pearson wasn't tickety-boo, it has been suggested before that SSL has had off-field issues before. He is certainly good enough for the Championship but probably nothing more. We need another CB though as Mills is always one rash challenge from a red, Bamba blows hot and cold and Tunchev is injury prone.
Fernandes - Hugely disappointed to see him go as I think he is a quality player. I remember him from his Man City days and remember thinking he could go on to great things. But it looks like he may have only came here for Sven and doesn't want to be second fiddle under NP. I do think he should have been picked ahead of Wellens and King though, as neither have been playing well of late.
Johnson - mainly same as above, but his injury doesn't seem to be going away and I wonder how long he'll prolong his career.
Pantsil - Never looked suited to the Championship and not going to be happy being understudy to Peltier.
Ball - His best years have certainly gone.
Berner - Sadly his decline began at the beginning of last season - you could tell he'd lost his pace in the Boro game.
Malling - A couple of thoughts on that though:
First of all, if Pearson does go for honest-but-workmanlike, is that a bad thing? He got us into the playoffs before and has more money available this time, so might that not spell good things for next season?
Second, if Pearson is actively /against/ players like them or their kind of football, why is Sol Bamba still playing and Sledger on his way out?
“..others think of Fernandes and Johnson as the kind of players we need to play the right kind of football and move in the right direction.”
----------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure what evidence people would present to say that these are the type of players that we need.
If we need a player to be unfit and hardly get into the match day squad then Johnson is perfect for this role. Sven didn’t think he was ready and neither does Nigel and they’ve seen a lot more of him than we have. He can’t really be selected, or kept in the squad, on reputation alone.
SSL was ok and not much more. If we have aspirations of achieving promotion then is “ok” good enough? He’d be a useful squad player, but he clearly isn’t happy with that role.
The hardest one to dismiss is Fernandes. The current demise in the form of Richie Wellens makes the argument for keeping him more persuasive, but not for the reasons the OP stated. His greatest strengths seemed to be his energy and endeavour. Pearson is accused of not being able to see beyond workmanlike players, but I’d put Fernandes very much in this bracket. I can only assume that GF has been honest with NP in stating that he doesn’t fancy it here. This would fit with NP appearing to respect him, whilst at the same time never giving him a chance.
In short Fernandes is the only one I’ll miss but, based purely on their Leicester performances; we need to do better than all three if we are as ambitious as we say we are.
The 'honest-but-workmanlike' have their place, Dunge, absolutely, but since O'Neil left that seems to be the character with which City as a whole has been stuck, as the limit of our cash-strapped ambition. The arrival of Sven-plus-money stirred me to think that we might at last be able to raise our sights. I'm much less sure that NP-plus-money will take us in that direction.
I suspect that Pearson shares the misgivings about Bamba that many have voiced on here, but his choices are limited at present. SSL seems to have felt under-valued, and walked as a consequence. A pity, I feel, especially if the old Tunch cannot be recovered.
Malling - But the point still stands that the reason SSL felt under-valued was because Pearson chose the more flamboyant Bamba over him in the first place.
I think in his first spell, it played to the strength of us as a club because we didn't have the financial backing we do now and so couldn't attract the same quality of player that we now could so the best way we could progress was to build the sort of side that he did.
We'll just have to wait and see what type of player he does sign but I think we do need that bit of flair and spark in our side to progress and develop because that is what we're missing at present. You look at the three sides who got promotion, they all had someone who could create something from nothing (i.e. Taraabt, Hoolahan, Sinclair etc.) but I think Nigel will and does realise this and will address it. The first bid he's made is for exactly the type of player we're missing and I think you under-estimate his and certainly Steve Walsh's ability to find exactly the right players to improve our side.
Greatness,
Your second sentence there is absolutely spot on. People deride the style of play under Pearson, but he got the most out of the resources at his disposal.
Let’s see what he can do with money before we say that he is one dimensional.
Fair enough, joby. No one would be happier than me to be proved wrong.
Important point to think about here- some if not all of the players mentioned Pearson might want to keep. Could be their own decision to leave
Unfortunately SSL is probably too small of stature in NP's eyes.
He is also the sort of player that gets through alot of work but is never outstanding, is that what we want? .
I am fairly sure a centre back will be a priority this Window, if it was someone like Richard Dunne then in my opinion NP.
Fernanes will not be NP's type of player.
Wellens can be the man, but if he can't train daily, how the hell can he play 3 or 4 matches in 10/12 days?.
Above all I believe Nigel has doubts about loan signings being chosen infront of signed players, before all have been given a chance.
Lets see what happens and trust in the management which on this occassion I am prepared to do.
In my opinion, it is very short sighted to suggest Pearson doesn't like "flair" players. Take one look at Bamba for evidence of that.
Pearson likes a good attitude, I'll give you that bit only people who have already made their mind up about him would fail to see how well he's managed the Beckford situation, whether he goes or not.
Pearson has never been at a club that has been able to spend a lot of money. He's worked very well with a limited budget and got the best out what he's had at his disposal.
Some would say he likes a boring style of play, but what he's shown in the last 3 games is he is willing to try different things - so what is his style of play?
To answer your question Dunge, I welcome Pearson's decision to let Fernandes, Johnson, and SSL go. None of them have shown anything under Sven to suggest they'd be "worth" managing. Why the hell would he bother when he can get more effective players in who will have a better attitude.
I've never disguised that I'm a fan of Pearson and his methods. I personally think he's one of the best managers around and I hope he's given the time at our club to prove it. If players don't want to play for him, then more fool them! For the first time in a long time we are a club that is going somewhere, and any player that doesn't want to be part of it should be shown the exit door!!
Btw, to Pearson likes only hard-working, honest-players (the implication that they like ability) did anybody see the midfield of Brady, Stewart and Koren he assembled at Hull? Outstanding creators, and in Stewart and Koren arguably two of the best in the division.
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posted on 3/1/12
I am not disappointed in SSL, Berner, Ball or Johnson leaving. These players were never going to consistantly play for us. However Fernandes tended to be one of the better players when we played poorly, showing signs of pure quality and when clubs like Udinese are coming in for him it is concerning what we are throwing away. Having said that it was only a loan anyway, and in NP I trust.
posted on 3/1/12
To be honest, if we had sold/cancelled contracts/loaned any of our midfielders or strikers (minus Nugent), I wouldn't be that devastated, which says something about our quality going forward in recent times.
posted on 3/1/12
St Ledger - I think as back-up, he's decent to have and put in some reasonable performances when Mills was suspended. His performances at International level have also shown that he has the talent. The issue is that he wanted to leave and because these are the circumstances, I feel it's always best to get rid of want-away players for the benefit of the squad. So, no disappointment for me.
Fernandes - Showed some promise to start with and is a tidy enough player who probably suits mopping up in front of the back four. Sven preferred to play him on one of the sides of the diamond - I guess for his energy to get up and down that flank but it always seemed like he was too far up the pitch for me and didn't have the ability to influence the play enough and couldn't play either 'killer passes' or run at players like you should do being in the position he was. Then with Nigel, the 4-4-2 isn't conducive to one player sitting and holding so he didn't really fit into the system. Given our surplus of midfielders, if we were to lose one, then (considering we have a very similar player in Abe and that he's a loanee) Gelson would be the one I'd be least disappointed to see go. Again has talent but another one who himself wanted to go and so not really upset about this one either.
Johnson - Probably the only one I would be disappointed to see go - but that would be due to his past performances rather than what he has done here. We all talk about this creative midfielder to challenge Wellens and I agree that we need one, but this guy could have been that player. If we could get him fit, then I think he'd be great for us but we've been saying the same since August now and he looks no nearer now than he was then. So if we can't get him fit, then it's probably best again that he leave and we can sign someone to play this role in our side. His signing was a gamble that would have been great had it have worked, but it hasn't and we haven't lost anything because of it.
I trust Nigel to build a good squad because, both at Leicester and Hull, he's been very successful at moulding a squad that he wants. The difference is the previous two times he had a summer to do it whereas now he only has January which is notoriously hard to do business in but needs must and, in Steve Walsh, we also have one of the best scouts in the game so as long as we can buy the players we need, I think we still have half a chance of sneaking into the play-offs.
posted on 3/1/12
Yes, I am both concerned and disappointed, for precisely the reasons you give in your second para, Dunge.
I don't see our present "first XI" as good enough to get us out of this division, and I have a horrible fear that Pearson won't look beyond the honest-but-workmanlike, when he goes into the market this month. I'd love to be proved wrong.
posted on 3/1/12
I am actually most disappointed to see SSL leave.
This is a player with pedigree at this level who will be turning out for his Country in the summer.
We haven't seen the best of him because we haven't given him a run in the team and frankly, anyone playing alongside Bamba can look fragile.
I always wanted to see SSL and Mills given a run in the side and perhaps Bamba should have been contesting a mid-field spot. But then I am old-fashioned and believe that defenders are there to defend.
Good luck Sean. You will undoubtedly fit in at your next club and I suspect many of us will be asking why you didn't gel at Leicester when you show how good a
player you really are.
posted on 3/1/12
St Ledger - I feel a bit sorry for the guy actually. He's gone from being a regular at Preston (albeit at a relegated club) and also in the Irish national team where he has been in a hugely successful partnership with Richard Dunne, to not even getting on the bench here and then being transfer-listed. Clearly the 'relationship' between himself and Pearson wasn't tickety-boo, it has been suggested before that SSL has had off-field issues before. He is certainly good enough for the Championship but probably nothing more. We need another CB though as Mills is always one rash challenge from a red, Bamba blows hot and cold and Tunchev is injury prone.
Fernandes - Hugely disappointed to see him go as I think he is a quality player. I remember him from his Man City days and remember thinking he could go on to great things. But it looks like he may have only came here for Sven and doesn't want to be second fiddle under NP. I do think he should have been picked ahead of Wellens and King though, as neither have been playing well of late.
Johnson - mainly same as above, but his injury doesn't seem to be going away and I wonder how long he'll prolong his career.
Pantsil - Never looked suited to the Championship and not going to be happy being understudy to Peltier.
Ball - His best years have certainly gone.
Berner - Sadly his decline began at the beginning of last season - you could tell he'd lost his pace in the Boro game.
posted on 3/1/12
Malling - A couple of thoughts on that though:
First of all, if Pearson does go for honest-but-workmanlike, is that a bad thing? He got us into the playoffs before and has more money available this time, so might that not spell good things for next season?
Second, if Pearson is actively /against/ players like them or their kind of football, why is Sol Bamba still playing and Sledger on his way out?
posted on 3/1/12
“..others think of Fernandes and Johnson as the kind of players we need to play the right kind of football and move in the right direction.”
----------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure what evidence people would present to say that these are the type of players that we need.
If we need a player to be unfit and hardly get into the match day squad then Johnson is perfect for this role. Sven didn’t think he was ready and neither does Nigel and they’ve seen a lot more of him than we have. He can’t really be selected, or kept in the squad, on reputation alone.
SSL was ok and not much more. If we have aspirations of achieving promotion then is “ok” good enough? He’d be a useful squad player, but he clearly isn’t happy with that role.
The hardest one to dismiss is Fernandes. The current demise in the form of Richie Wellens makes the argument for keeping him more persuasive, but not for the reasons the OP stated. His greatest strengths seemed to be his energy and endeavour. Pearson is accused of not being able to see beyond workmanlike players, but I’d put Fernandes very much in this bracket. I can only assume that GF has been honest with NP in stating that he doesn’t fancy it here. This would fit with NP appearing to respect him, whilst at the same time never giving him a chance.
In short Fernandes is the only one I’ll miss but, based purely on their Leicester performances; we need to do better than all three if we are as ambitious as we say we are.
posted on 3/1/12
The 'honest-but-workmanlike' have their place, Dunge, absolutely, but since O'Neil left that seems to be the character with which City as a whole has been stuck, as the limit of our cash-strapped ambition. The arrival of Sven-plus-money stirred me to think that we might at last be able to raise our sights. I'm much less sure that NP-plus-money will take us in that direction.
I suspect that Pearson shares the misgivings about Bamba that many have voiced on here, but his choices are limited at present. SSL seems to have felt under-valued, and walked as a consequence. A pity, I feel, especially if the old Tunch cannot be recovered.
posted on 3/1/12
Malling - But the point still stands that the reason SSL felt under-valued was because Pearson chose the more flamboyant Bamba over him in the first place.
I think in his first spell, it played to the strength of us as a club because we didn't have the financial backing we do now and so couldn't attract the same quality of player that we now could so the best way we could progress was to build the sort of side that he did.
We'll just have to wait and see what type of player he does sign but I think we do need that bit of flair and spark in our side to progress and develop because that is what we're missing at present. You look at the three sides who got promotion, they all had someone who could create something from nothing (i.e. Taraabt, Hoolahan, Sinclair etc.) but I think Nigel will and does realise this and will address it. The first bid he's made is for exactly the type of player we're missing and I think you under-estimate his and certainly Steve Walsh's ability to find exactly the right players to improve our side.
posted on 3/1/12
Greatness,
Your second sentence there is absolutely spot on. People deride the style of play under Pearson, but he got the most out of the resources at his disposal.
Let’s see what he can do with money before we say that he is one dimensional.
posted on 3/1/12
Fair enough, joby. No one would be happier than me to be proved wrong.
posted on 3/1/12
Important point to think about here- some if not all of the players mentioned Pearson might want to keep. Could be their own decision to leave
posted on 3/1/12
Unfortunately SSL is probably too small of stature in NP's eyes.
He is also the sort of player that gets through alot of work but is never outstanding, is that what we want? .
I am fairly sure a centre back will be a priority this Window, if it was someone like Richard Dunne then in my opinion NP.
Fernanes will not be NP's type of player.
Wellens can be the man, but if he can't train daily, how the hell can he play 3 or 4 matches in 10/12 days?.
Above all I believe Nigel has doubts about loan signings being chosen infront of signed players, before all have been given a chance.
Lets see what happens and trust in the management which on this occassion I am prepared to do.
posted on 3/1/12
In my opinion, it is very short sighted to suggest Pearson doesn't like "flair" players. Take one look at Bamba for evidence of that.
Pearson likes a good attitude, I'll give you that bit only people who have already made their mind up about him would fail to see how well he's managed the Beckford situation, whether he goes or not.
Pearson has never been at a club that has been able to spend a lot of money. He's worked very well with a limited budget and got the best out what he's had at his disposal.
Some would say he likes a boring style of play, but what he's shown in the last 3 games is he is willing to try different things - so what is his style of play?
To answer your question Dunge, I welcome Pearson's decision to let Fernandes, Johnson, and SSL go. None of them have shown anything under Sven to suggest they'd be "worth" managing. Why the hell would he bother when he can get more effective players in who will have a better attitude.
I've never disguised that I'm a fan of Pearson and his methods. I personally think he's one of the best managers around and I hope he's given the time at our club to prove it. If players don't want to play for him, then more fool them! For the first time in a long time we are a club that is going somewhere, and any player that doesn't want to be part of it should be shown the exit door!!
posted on 3/1/12
Btw, to Pearson likes only hard-working, honest-players (the implication that they like ability) did anybody see the midfield of Brady, Stewart and Koren he assembled at Hull? Outstanding creators, and in Stewart and Koren arguably two of the best in the division.
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