Excellent post OP
When you look at the old Liverpool teams though, they were always solid at the back and did not have to rely on a midfield that was designed to help defend as well.
The midfield then was geared to attack.
I don't get the impression Kenny trusts his defence that much, his set ups certainly don't give that impression.
Nice article mate and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Carroll's bemusement when he flicks on to thin air makes you wonder, is he the only one in the side who has been told about this tactic?!
A lot of the time though I'm not so much frustrated at the lack of body's in the box (which granted is a problem sometimes) it's more the quality of crosses in the box when we actually have players there! Even from the dead ball it's 90% woefull!
I like maxi too but he's so inconsistent it's untrue. I really want Shelvey to get more games, he's so keen to attack when ever he plays, he's young and hungry, and he's not shy of having a blast from range either! Our reliance on Bellamy at the mo is worrying but he's the one who can finish chances at the mo, and much as I LOVE Suarez, he rarely coverts those chances and mazey runs he creates.
The talent we have fit and ready now will hopefully turn a corner as a squad and I hope the goals will soon flow. But, you make a good point with your observation.
Thanks for the great comments. Ham Shankly, I agree with your opinion of Shelvey and think that he could very well be the long term replacement for Stevie G.
Tennishusa, what a lovely article. You've hit the nail right on the thumb! That's very good, even for a young 'un like yourself. Kenny would argue that we are still very much work in progress. There have been the odd games, such as at home to ManCity, Mancini thought we were the toughest team he'd played against. But these seem to be the exception to the rule. I look forward to the days when visiting teams are petrified at the very thought of coming to Anfield. It's still some time off. A considerable degree of patience is required. YNWA JimmyTheRed
I think it's not to do with defence, but instead to do with the attack IMO. When you use that tactics, it doesn't matter if you concede as you'll always outscore the opponent. I think the problem is that Kenny doesn't trust his attacking to go all out, probably because they're still gelling and Carroll's form which he just picked up lately.
When Kenny returned last season he knew we had to go for it to finish as high up the table as possible and also the team didn't really need to gel.
City did the same last season and the season before with the likes of Silva, Balotelli, Tevez in their team until they got Aguero and gelled properly.
Good article BTW
I don't think it has much at all to do with the tactics.
I think we just have to many players who like to be the one lurking outside the 18.
Players like Gerrard and Shelvey seem to appear in the box regularly. Maxi as well.
I think the shackles are off, the players themselves need to be more forward thinking.
And it's not as if we haven't created more than enough chances. We have. We just haven't finished them off.
Its a fair point, and i hope kd realises this and shoves more in the box. Another point tho, our crosses have been abysmal...utter rubbish, and you wont score with poor crossing.
Spot on tennishusa!
I'm only a "young 'un" compared to some of the supporters here (in my 46th year as a Liverpool fan), but I can remember the Toshack / Keegan days.
Crikey, I even remember the Lawler, Lawrence, Yeats, Callaghan, Hunt, St John and Tommy Smith days.
The Liverpool of the 70's and 80's was built on pass and move, attack and get people in the box.
Now, to often, players seem to pass and stand waiting to see what happens.
Oh, and don't get me started on one of my pet peeves: How often do we see a midfielder screaming at a defender for the ball, and then as soon as he gets it, he passes it straight back to the defender who just gave it to him ffs. If you shout for the ball then bloody do something with it
>>Now, to often, players seem to pass and stand waiting to see what happens
some players, not all
that's why I don't think it's a tactical or formation driven.
I think the shackles are off, the players themselves need to be more forward thinking.
----------------
This pretty much sums it up for me.
I think this season we have lacked a spark out wide and up front (Bellamy and Suarez apart)
However, with Carroll getting better our form has improved, now with Suarez available who can play in all the forward positions we can hopefully improve this part of our game.
I think the tactics under Kenny have more attacking intent than GH,RB and obviously Hodgson.
It's just the individuals are different.
I agree with those who say its more personnel than tactical.
Adam, Henderson and Downing for example, have, what, 3 or 4 goals between them this season?
Spearing has never scored, Lucas never scores, Kuyt has had a horror season in front of goal.
I think its a lack of collective confidence in and around the box, to the point where players are reluctant to get themselves in there.
As an attacking unit this group of players have not achieved anything yet. The teams of the past were always high achievers, and that gave them a collective confidence. Man Utd have that confidence now.
Hopefully a win in the Carling Cup final will be the first brick in building that confidence.
That is why trophies are so important, even the 4th best ones, because they give players belief. Arsenal have not got that belief in recent years because the group of players have not won anything.
Spurs are having a great season, but I would bet good money on them having a worse last few months of the season, compared to Man Utd and Man City, because their players have collectively not won anything.
I used to think it's more personal but the manager would've addressed it by now. Come on 8 draws at home and 16 points lost
I think it's the manager that doesn't want to go all out attack as we haven't got the attacking power to not worry much about defence.
There's a collection of things that is wrong with us.
Clarke is my main issue. He's got us playing exactly the way Chelsea played in Mourinho's 2nd season. Difficult to beat but wont score many. Also we dont have the individual brillance that Chelsea had at that time to score the odd goal.
Transfers are another. We bought players based on the amount of chances they created not how many they converted. So its no surprise we havent been scoring. It aint the players game. Thats the problem when you buy specialists for one position and not the corresponding specialist to make the wheels roll.
Another is Kenny's stubbornness. I can live with that though.
I will accept that we are a work in progress though and even if we come up short in every competition this season, i wont be angry.
However next season is do or die for everyone
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posted on 9/2/12
Agree!
posted on 9/2/12
Excellent post OP
When you look at the old Liverpool teams though, they were always solid at the back and did not have to rely on a midfield that was designed to help defend as well.
The midfield then was geared to attack.
I don't get the impression Kenny trusts his defence that much, his set ups certainly don't give that impression.
posted on 9/2/12
Nice article mate and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Carroll's bemusement when he flicks on to thin air makes you wonder, is he the only one in the side who has been told about this tactic?!
A lot of the time though I'm not so much frustrated at the lack of body's in the box (which granted is a problem sometimes) it's more the quality of crosses in the box when we actually have players there! Even from the dead ball it's 90% woefull!
I like maxi too but he's so inconsistent it's untrue. I really want Shelvey to get more games, he's so keen to attack when ever he plays, he's young and hungry, and he's not shy of having a blast from range either! Our reliance on Bellamy at the mo is worrying but he's the one who can finish chances at the mo, and much as I LOVE Suarez, he rarely coverts those chances and mazey runs he creates.
The talent we have fit and ready now will hopefully turn a corner as a squad and I hope the goals will soon flow. But, you make a good point with your observation.
posted on 9/2/12
Thanks for the great comments. Ham Shankly, I agree with your opinion of Shelvey and think that he could very well be the long term replacement for Stevie G.
posted on 9/2/12
Tennishusa, what a lovely article. You've hit the nail right on the thumb! That's very good, even for a young 'un like yourself. Kenny would argue that we are still very much work in progress. There have been the odd games, such as at home to ManCity, Mancini thought we were the toughest team he'd played against. But these seem to be the exception to the rule. I look forward to the days when visiting teams are petrified at the very thought of coming to Anfield. It's still some time off. A considerable degree of patience is required. YNWA JimmyTheRed
posted on 9/2/12
I think it's not to do with defence, but instead to do with the attack IMO. When you use that tactics, it doesn't matter if you concede as you'll always outscore the opponent. I think the problem is that Kenny doesn't trust his attacking to go all out, probably because they're still gelling and Carroll's form which he just picked up lately.
When Kenny returned last season he knew we had to go for it to finish as high up the table as possible and also the team didn't really need to gel.
City did the same last season and the season before with the likes of Silva, Balotelli, Tevez in their team until they got Aguero and gelled properly.
Good article BTW
posted on 9/2/12
I don't think it has much at all to do with the tactics.
I think we just have to many players who like to be the one lurking outside the 18.
Players like Gerrard and Shelvey seem to appear in the box regularly. Maxi as well.
I think the shackles are off, the players themselves need to be more forward thinking.
And it's not as if we haven't created more than enough chances. We have. We just haven't finished them off.
posted on 9/2/12
Its a fair point, and i hope kd realises this and shoves more in the box. Another point tho, our crosses have been abysmal...utter rubbish, and you wont score with poor crossing.
posted on 9/2/12
Spot on tennishusa!
I'm only a "young 'un" compared to some of the supporters here (in my 46th year as a Liverpool fan), but I can remember the Toshack / Keegan days.
Crikey, I even remember the Lawler, Lawrence, Yeats, Callaghan, Hunt, St John and Tommy Smith days.
The Liverpool of the 70's and 80's was built on pass and move, attack and get people in the box.
Now, to often, players seem to pass and stand waiting to see what happens.
Oh, and don't get me started on one of my pet peeves: How often do we see a midfielder screaming at a defender for the ball, and then as soon as he gets it, he passes it straight back to the defender who just gave it to him ffs. If you shout for the ball then bloody do something with it
posted on 9/2/12
>>Now, to often, players seem to pass and stand waiting to see what happens
some players, not all
that's why I don't think it's a tactical or formation driven.
posted on 9/2/12
I think the shackles are off, the players themselves need to be more forward thinking.
----------------
This pretty much sums it up for me.
I think this season we have lacked a spark out wide and up front (Bellamy and Suarez apart)
However, with Carroll getting better our form has improved, now with Suarez available who can play in all the forward positions we can hopefully improve this part of our game.
I think the tactics under Kenny have more attacking intent than GH,RB and obviously Hodgson.
It's just the individuals are different.
posted on 9/2/12
I agree with those who say its more personnel than tactical.
Adam, Henderson and Downing for example, have, what, 3 or 4 goals between them this season?
Spearing has never scored, Lucas never scores, Kuyt has had a horror season in front of goal.
I think its a lack of collective confidence in and around the box, to the point where players are reluctant to get themselves in there.
As an attacking unit this group of players have not achieved anything yet. The teams of the past were always high achievers, and that gave them a collective confidence. Man Utd have that confidence now.
Hopefully a win in the Carling Cup final will be the first brick in building that confidence.
That is why trophies are so important, even the 4th best ones, because they give players belief. Arsenal have not got that belief in recent years because the group of players have not won anything.
Spurs are having a great season, but I would bet good money on them having a worse last few months of the season, compared to Man Utd and Man City, because their players have collectively not won anything.
posted on 10/2/12
I used to think it's more personal but the manager would've addressed it by now. Come on 8 draws at home and 16 points lost
I think it's the manager that doesn't want to go all out attack as we haven't got the attacking power to not worry much about defence.
posted on 10/2/12
There's a collection of things that is wrong with us.
Clarke is my main issue. He's got us playing exactly the way Chelsea played in Mourinho's 2nd season. Difficult to beat but wont score many. Also we dont have the individual brillance that Chelsea had at that time to score the odd goal.
Transfers are another. We bought players based on the amount of chances they created not how many they converted. So its no surprise we havent been scoring. It aint the players game. Thats the problem when you buy specialists for one position and not the corresponding specialist to make the wheels roll.
Another is Kenny's stubbornness. I can live with that though.
I will accept that we are a work in progress though and even if we come up short in every competition this season, i wont be angry.
However next season is do or die for everyone
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