I don't agree when people say 'we had loads of injuries'

That is what a squad is for. We missed Lucas and Suarez for 10 games. They have been our best 2 players in the squad in the last 12 months. You have to deal with injuries.

I was just wondering where everyone thought we would be with Lucas. I reckon top 4.

He is having a good season and to be fair he is a fantastic passer of the ball but it's common knowledge that MrAF has been trying to get a true ball winner in for a long time.

T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947)

I think with Lucas and Suarez not missing we'd have turned at least four draws into wins.

comment by T Bone Steak Roysters (U3947) posted 10 minutes ago

I don't agree when people say 'we had loads of injuries'

That is what a squad is for. We missed Lucas and Suarez for 10 games. They have been our best 2 players in the squad in the last 12 months. You have to deal with injuries
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Of course you have to deal with them, it doesn't mean they haven;t happened though.

There are levels though. If you have no fit CB's or CM's then it's safe to assume the injuries does have an adverse affect

If you had 25 injured squad members would you 'have to cope' then? Of course, still would have a MAJOR effect though wouldn't it

Furthermore, Liverpool would almost certainly have more points if Suarez hadn't been banned, and Lucas and Gerrard had been fit from the start

I thought Man Utd handled their injuries exceptionally well to be fair.

Didn't they have 10 out at one point? It's credit ot the manager that he got square pegs in round holes and still made it work.

comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374) posted 12 minutes ago

He is having a good season and to be fair he is a fantastic passer of the ball but it's common knowledge that MrAF has been trying to get a true ball winner in for a long time.


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Another made up statement

I'ts common knowledge that SAF thinks Carrick is outstanding. He says it often enough

comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374) posted 6 seconds ago

I thought Man Utd handled their injuries exceptionally well to be fair.

Didn't they have 10 out at one point? It's credit ot the manager that he got square pegs in round holes and still made it work.

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It still caught up with us at the end of the christmas period though. Blackburn at home with Rafael and Park in CM and Carrick at CB and then a totally spent force away at St James

Just as well for the neutral though as it has kept City in it

Another?

Whatever.

I did not say Carrick had no talent now did I. I said he ain't that strong in the tackle and he is not. If you buy Tiote in the summer am I still wrong then? Why would Scott Parker suddenly find himself in the DM role? Why did Huiddlestone when he was fit? Why did he never play DM at any pregious club?

He ain't a natural ball winner. He does not play for England for a reason and he has never scored enough goals.

Which part of that is made up?

Which part of that is made up?

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Saying Carrick isn't strong in the tackle

Saying he isn't a ball winner

Saying he doesn't score enough goals

Saying it;s common knowledge SAF is after a ball winner. Show me one source please

Calling SAF MrAF to make some kind of point

Saying Carrick isn't strong in the tackle

He isn't in my opinion - we have pressed you out of a good few games when he has played. Lucas has owned him in a couple. Bilboa out pressed you. Barca did. It's cos he is not strong enough in the tackle and not mobile enough. One season does not make a career.

Saying he isn't a ball winner

He is not.

Saying he doesn't score enough goals

He has never scored more than 5 league goals in any season ever.

Saying it;s common knowledge SAF is after a ball winner. Show me one source please.

Just google Alex ferguson and then "add some bite" in speach marks. His brother has also watched Tiote more than once. Feel free to google that.

Calling SAF MrAF to make some kind of point

I have called him that for ages. I don't like the fact that he spits at the national anthem and then accepts a knighthood.

*speech

Hoody

Agree to disagree

Tis easier than going around in circles

It's football. We all see it differently.

There is nothing about adding bite to the midfield aside from gossip.

I've checked the stats and Carrick does not even come top ten in the tackling statistics.

That may be because Man Utd keep the ball well but if he were that good then surely he would be up there.
He is not.

No offence but it looks like you are the one making things up but feel free to prove me wrong.

I'm back to work now so you have hours.

comment by UnitedRedMacca- I taught Rooney and Berbatov the overhead kick (U2024) posted 45 seconds ago

Hoody

Agree to disagree

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Fair enough.

comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374) posted 5 minutes ago

I've checked the stats and Carrick does not even come top ten in the tackling statistics.

That may be because Man Utd keep the ball well but if he were that good then surely he would be up there.
He is not.


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Vidic looks a better tackler than Rio because Rio has always been far better in his positioniong and reads the game better than Vidic does. Vidic is the agressive strong man tackler whereby Rio has far more finesse

Over their whole career, Rio has been better overall

Carrick is similar to Rio.

Vidic looks a better tackler than Rio because Rio has always been far betterinhis positioniong and reads the game betterthan Vidic does. Vidic is the agressive strong man tackler whereby Rio has far more finesse


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Well that's true to an extent, Ferdinand at his peak was a fantastic covering defender, but I hate it when people look down on aggressive defenders like Vidic and imply that their attributes only stand out because they don't have the anticipation of defenders like Ferdinand.

Nemanja Vidic is thrice as brave as Ferdinand, that's just a fact that's pretty incontrovertible. Ferdinand's attempts at blocking shots and going into meaty aerial duels are embarrassing compared to Vidic. That's not because Vidic lacks Ferdinand's positional sense, it's because Vidic is comfortably better at these things. Also, aggressive defenders like Vidic also need anticipation, it's just a different type of anticipation than a defender lime Ferdinand uses.

Anticipation is why Vidic is under every high ball that comes near United's box, and it's why he's exposed no more than Ferdinand is, despite the fact that he moves forward to close people down a lot. If he mis-reads the pattern of play or a striker's intentions when he goes out to close them down, then the defence is in huge trouble.

Look at Martin Skrtel, he has gone from being error-prone to being a rock because his anticipation has improved immeasurably over the past year.

I agree with parts of what you're saying about Carrick, but Robbing has a point, he's not an awfully good tackler, which is one reason why I rate him below the likes of Lucas. Lucas is also brilliant at interceptions and covering, but his tackling is ferocious too, and he is simply willing to go into tackles that Carrick generally wouldn't, whilst at least matching Carrick in every area bar maybe long passing, where Carrick may shade him.

Lucas

Never thought i´d find a Liverpool fan talking sense but Grater makes a lot of sense.

Just because we went through a stage where he hadnt had a booking (from 2009 to 2011, a lot due to luck), Fans seem to cream over him and look down in askance at the tower that is Vidic.

I am just grateful, we have had both at United for ages and they have both been wonderful servants. But overall, i woud say Vidic has been more effective.

comment by Dr Seven Grater (U13441) posted 54 minutes ago

Vidic looks a better tackler than Rio because Rio has always been far betterinhis positioniong and reads the game betterthan Vidic does. Vidic is the agressive strong man tackler whereby Rio has far more finesse


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Well that's true to an extent, Ferdinand at his peak was a fantastic covering defender, but I hate it when people look down on aggressive defenders like Vidic
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I don't look down on them whatsoever

i was simply explaining the difference in Rio and Vidic's style to try and get across the point about Carrick.

Carrick is a good tackler, just not a prolific one because he doesn't need to be.

I don't agree with the comparison myself. In fact the opposite.

As said I think Carrick is a one trick pony - passing.

Rio is a complete footballer as a defender whilst Vidic excels at dominating through strength and heading.

Rio to Rooney what Vidic is to Carrick.

I don't look down on them whatsoever

i was simply explaining the difference in Rio and Vidic's style to try and get across the point about Carrick.

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It sounded like you were looking down on them, to be fair - you said Ferdinand is better in his positioning than Vidic, but that's not the full picture. Ferdinand's positioning is better than Vidic's in terms of being the more withdrawn defender; Vidic's positioning is better as the more advanced defender.

There's a tendency for people to forget just how cerebral a role like Vidic's or Skrtel's is, just because it involves more brute strength, but if it was just a case of being big and strong then players like Vidic would be a pound a penny.

They're not, though. Every team has big defenders but none of them come close to Vidic because he's also highly intelligent, and I think it's a myth that he needs Ferdinand - if anything, once Vidic got settled into the Premier League, he has looked more comfortable without Ferdinand than Ferdinand has without him, as evidenced by that record United set a couple of seasons back when Vidic was the only ever-present.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I don't think you're having a go at him (maybe look down on was a poor choice of words), just maybe under-estimating Vidic's role.

It's something that bugs me sometimes, I think Ferdinand is (or maybe was) a fantastic defender, but I do think he's a bit soft and people mask over that somewhat by saying that he doesn't need to be hard because he's so intelligent. I get that a lot of the time he is in the right place at the right time, but I also think there are times where he could tackle harder, be braver in the air, or throw himself in front of a shot rather than dangle a leg out at it.

Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree.

Sorry had to run yesterday. I see the nonsense went on a little after I departed. Carrick only plays most games for United because that is where you are weak Macca, any fool can see that. You have two pensioners playing there, one who had to come out of retirement and one who has made his name as a winger. You have Anderson, who is quite frankly rubbish, worse than Carrick, who is decent but not better than Adam, in my opinion and a young Cleverley, who is one of these players, like Wilshire, who has been labelled as England's saviour but it's much to early to say that.

As I was saying, Carrick starts most games in midfield due to United's weakness in that position. Had United had the funds and not been in the financial position they are, they would have strengthened this area and Carrick when he was in terrible form for a season or two, might have been sold or dropped, for a better player.

So whilst you earlier said I was unreasonable due to my opinion of Adam being better than Carrick, I think we can put it down to differing opinion and move on, unless, that is, you want to continue with your arrogance?

comment by There'sOnlyOneReds (U1721) posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago

Sorry had to run yesterday. I see the nonsense went on a little after I departed. Carrick only plays most games for United because that is where you are weak Macca, any fool can see that. You have two pensioners playing there, one who had to come out of retirement and one who has made his name as a winger. You have Anderson, who is quite frankly rubbish, worse than Carrick, who is decent but not better than Adam, in my opinion and a young Cleverley, who is one of these players, like Wilshire, who has been labelled as England's saviour but it's much to early to say that.

As I was saying, Carrick starts most games in midfield due to United's weakness in that position. Had United had the funds and not been in the financial position they are, they would have strengthened this area and Carrick when he was in terrible form for a season or two, might have been sold or dropped, for a better player.

So whilst you earlier said I was unreasonable due to my opinion of Adam being better than Carrick, I think we can put it down to differing opinion and move on, unless, that is, you want to continue with your arrogance?

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Can't be bothered

Carrick was rewarded with a new contract last season because he does a specific role for United.

If SAF was that bothered about the midfield, he wouldn't have spent 16m on a winger when we alreadt have 2 class ones, and 16m on a defender with potential

You see it your way though

Won't be adding anymire to this. Some of your claims are absurd, like not being able to afford Adam because of our debt, even though we spent 50m elsewhere

Of you cant see the silliness of that statement I'll take my 'arrogance' elsewhere