Yep, one of those articles.

kagawa for me is in a different class to cleverly at the minute.

It was against Moldova, people need to be a little bit more realistic here.

Cleverly is a very neat and tidy player who provides us with much needed energy through the middle, but he is a long long way off being considered in the same class as Kagawa.

I'm holding off judging Kagawa until the end of the season. I have no feelings either way (good or bad) until I see him handle a whole season in the PL.

That also goes for Cleverley regarding his injury record.

May the best man win!

MU82

I was basing the Cleverley opinion on the Italy game! And to be fair to Moldova, they only lost 1-0 home and away to Holland of all teams in their last Euro qualifying group.

Basing anyone on an international friendly is completely pointless, I can't even remember what happened in the game it was that pointless.

Anyway, like I said Cleverly is looking neat and tidy, I'm sure he will improve with games, likewise Kagawa. However I'm basing my opinion that Kagawa is in a different league to Cleverly on his impressive 2 seasons in Germany, even in the handful of games for us it looks good.

MU82

Maybe, i'm just waiting to see if Kagawa can bring his potential to England and thrive.

Time will tell

We had it perfect in 2008 and in 2009. Our standard 4-5-1/4-3-3 European formation proved very successful and it or something similar, is what we should go back to IMO. Unfortunately now, we don't have the likes of Ronaldo and Tevez to make it work as efficiently as it did back then but it's still something we need to consider going back to if we are to succeed in Europe.

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Cant be online all the time so tend to forget about discussion.

I disagree about that assumption of 4-3-3 in europe considering we always played 2 strikers and 2 wingers. granted one winger was defensively minded, they always kept a presence of width. We still thrived on getting balls crossed in and with players like park and hargreaves out wide, it was not the 4-3-3 we are seeing out there, it was a slanted 4-4-2.

Which is kind of my point. We played the same formation and instead of changing it completely, we tweak THE SAME formation to suit the team we are facing, not change it completely like fergie has been doing.

Most importantly in my opinion, we lose all advantages we gain from playing the same formation and knowing what our strength is. We now play like a team scared and it can be seen every time we go against a team that is supposed to be tough. When wolves come to our stadium, they'll change their 4-4-2 to play 4-5-1 with us. This to me says "your team is better than mine and therefore we have to adjust".

That is not the mentality of a big team. I dont see man city, chelsea, even liverpool changing their formations for us, why are we the team to bend over?

You mention 2008,2009. I'll counter with 1998/1999. Not once did we change for any team. We were in a tight spot on many occasions and we went there and put out the same team trusting them to be the best we can put out there and they rewarded our faith. I had no doubt that we put our best team out there and whatever the result it was with out best foot forward.

Contrast that with the city game at the end of last season were fergie firmly believed that team was good enough. I am not even sure the players he chose believed that, certainly no one else (except funrob in his hilarious article earlier) but hey its all about rotation.

I do not really care about who is in the best 11 or the formation really. But a manager who does not know what his best 11 is when they are fit is quite frankly failing on his main duty. This rotation, above everything is the only common trait since all the complaints about weak midfields and who is the best. No other position requires as much understanding as the midfield pairing of a 4-4-2. This is what we play. He should choose a pair and stick with it. Let teams have a plan against us, not the other way around.

Kagawa Is miles better than cleverly. That much we know. He was bought in because he is an improvement to the squad.

And he is only a year older.

Will Cleverley be at Kagawas level a year from now?

I doubt it...

There is only a few months between them diggler.

Kagawa has been one of the best in his position in the world for the last two years and has taken to the pl like a duck to water. It's insane how cheap we got him.

Cleverly is nowhere near him, ludicrous for them to be compared as yet.