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So, that perch...

Seems Fergie didn't knock us off of any perch after all - he merely gave it a nudge and made it wobble.

Just waiting for the formalities to be crowned Champions of England again.

Current reigning Champions of Europe and the World.

Most decorated English club of all time.

Best goal keeper, centre back, right back, left back, holding midfielder, captain and forwards in the world.

Messi and Mbappe being linked daily.

United now resorting to loaning players from China, changing manager every year, pinning hopes on Lingard and Pogba, celebrating draws against Wolves and chasing the dream of #still6th (but can't get above Sheffield United)

Cheers Fergie

posted on 5/2/20

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
What? You cant read?

The comment is right above the face palm.

.............

And what is wrong with the comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read back and I've seen that that has been highlighted by other posters.

Unless you've got something to add.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You disagree that English football was left behind during the ban? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but I've read several pieces over the years about the impact of the Heysel ban and how the English teams were out of touch with European football after it. SAF himself addressed the matter at some point in the past as well. Just have a look at some of the results after the ban ended. Liverpool lost to Brondby. Leeds to PSV. Villa I think lost to an average Turkish team. I suspect you aren't even old enough to remember that period?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, you can't say Fergie would have won a European Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that he would have won a European cup in that time. What it did was set us back in our development/understanding of winning in Europe. Had we had the extra years for the players to gain experience and not become out of touch with European football, SAF would have stood a better chance in those first few years in the CL once we had won the league.

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 16 hours, 52 minutes ago
Don’t know if it’s true as I wasn’t even alive then but if United did average 9th in those seasons we were banned it’s pretty silly to be suggesting they would have been even close to a European cup in that period.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody said we would have won the EC in that period. But we did miss out on playing in Europe during that period as we couldn't play in the Cup Winners Cup. We, and English football as a whole, were out of touch with European football during a period that it changed quite a bit thanks to the Milan side. When we did return to Europe the English teams all struggled a bit.

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 17 hours, 53 minutes ago
You can't have read much

Thatcher had us banned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thatcher asked the FA to pull us form European competition, but it was going to happen anyway. It was UEFA that banned us a few days later for an undefined period of time. In the end it was 5 years, with Liverpool serving an additional year.

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
What? You cant read?

The comment is right above the face palm.

.............

And what is wrong with the comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read back and I've seen that that has been highlighted by other posters.

Unless you've got something to add.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You disagree that English football was left behind during the ban? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but I've read several pieces over the years about the impact of the Heysel ban and how the English teams were out of touch with European football after it. SAF himself addressed the matter at some point in the past as well. Just have a look at some of the results after the ban ended. Liverpool lost to Brondby. Leeds to PSV. Villa I think lost to an average Turkish team. I suspect you aren't even old enough to remember that period?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, you can't say Fergie would have won a European Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that he would have won a European cup in that time. What it did was set us back in our development/understanding of winning in Europe. Had we had the extra years for the players to gain experience and not become out of touch with European football, SAF would have stood a better chance in those first few years in the CL once we had won the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but this all came up because of the perch debate. That's the context. So you're pointing out United could have possibly won more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. I don't agree with that as they didn't qualify very often and would have been as unprepared as they were regardless.

However, assuming you are correct, Liverpool would have been near guaranteed to add more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. With United it's speculation, with Liverpool its more of a likelihood.

So in terms of the perch context, this point actually works against you and Manchester United and in Liverpool's favour.

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
What? You cant read?

The comment is right above the face palm.

.............

And what is wrong with the comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read back and I've seen that that has been highlighted by other posters.

Unless you've got something to add.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You disagree that English football was left behind during the ban? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but I've read several pieces over the years about the impact of the Heysel ban and how the English teams were out of touch with European football after it. SAF himself addressed the matter at some point in the past as well. Just have a look at some of the results after the ban ended. Liverpool lost to Brondby. Leeds to PSV. Villa I think lost to an average Turkish team. I suspect you aren't even old enough to remember that period?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, you can't say Fergie would have won a European Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that he would have won a European cup in that time. What it did was set us back in our development/understanding of winning in Europe. Had we had the extra years for the players to gain experience and not become out of touch with European football, SAF would have stood a better chance in those first few years in the CL once we had won the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but this all came up because of the perch debate. That's the context. So you're pointing out United could have possibly won more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. I don't agree with that as they didn't qualify very often and would have been as unprepared as they were regardless.

However, assuming you are correct, Liverpool would have been near guaranteed to add more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. With United it's speculation, with Liverpool its more of a likelihood.

So in terms of the perch context, this point actually works against you and Manchester United and in Liverpool's favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone said SAF should have won the champions league more. It wasn't to do with the perch quote, which didn't even relate to trophies won anyway. SAF should have won the CL more. He says that himself. But he was also hampered by the 3 foreigners rule, which came in during the Heysel ban, and also our lack of European experience thanks to the Heysel ban. I know we wouldnt have won the CL during that period, but we would have played in a European competition in 3 of those 5 years that we were banned. We'd have been more experienced at how to get results away from home against the best teams and better placed to win a CL title earlier.

posted on 5/2/20

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 2 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 hours, 8 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime (U1282)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
What? You cant read?

The comment is right above the face palm.

.............

And what is wrong with the comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read back and I've seen that that has been highlighted by other posters.

Unless you've got something to add.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You disagree that English football was left behind during the ban? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but I've read several pieces over the years about the impact of the Heysel ban and how the English teams were out of touch with European football after it. SAF himself addressed the matter at some point in the past as well. Just have a look at some of the results after the ban ended. Liverpool lost to Brondby. Leeds to PSV. Villa I think lost to an average Turkish team. I suspect you aren't even old enough to remember that period?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still, you can't say Fergie would have won a European Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that he would have won a European cup in that time. What it did was set us back in our development/understanding of winning in Europe. Had we had the extra years for the players to gain experience and not become out of touch with European football, SAF would have stood a better chance in those first few years in the CL once we had won the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but this all came up because of the perch debate. That's the context. So you're pointing out United could have possibly won more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. I don't agree with that as they didn't qualify very often and would have been as unprepared as they were regardless.

However, assuming you are correct, Liverpool would have been near guaranteed to add more European cups if it wasn't for the ban. With United it's speculation, with Liverpool its more of a likelihood.

So in terms of the perch context, this point actually works against you and Manchester United and in Liverpool's favour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone said SAF should have won the champions league more. It wasn't to do with the perch quote, which didn't even relate to trophies won anyway. SAF should have won the CL more. He says that himself. But he was also hampered by the 3 foreigners rule, which came in during the Heysel ban, and also our lack of European experience thanks to the Heysel ban. I know we wouldnt have won the CL during that period, but we would have played in a European competition in 3 of those 5 years that we were banned. We'd have been more experienced at how to get results away from home against the best teams and better placed to win a CL title earlier.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Considering how long it took United to win anything in Europe, I doubt experience would have made a difference. United played European football but still only won something in 99, needing like 8 years of experience to achieve that, by your logic.

Truth is Fergie was never that good in Europe and he admits United should have won more ECs. Its therefore folly IMO to allege that he could have achieved anything in Europe when he was more of a "rookie". He failed to succeed in Europe in his best days as a manager and if we're going to draw assumptions then the ban did not affect his European fortunes at all.

posted on 5/2/20

Aaaaaanyway....

One title in 30 years.... caught up with Leeds, Leicester and Blackburn.... Some perch, that, RAP.

posted on 10/2/20

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 6 days, 4 hours ago
Just because you were well and truly knocked off your perch doesn’t mean you can’t reclaim it. If someone falls over then gets back up it doesn’t cancel out the fact that they fell over...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Very true. And in this case even falling down a well and being missing for like three decades also doesn't mean you can't eventually be found after surviving on scraps all that time.

posted on 17/2/20

This sort of thread is the very reason most of us hope Spurs never win anything of note

You'd never hear the fackin end of it

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