comment by Red Russian (U4715) posted 4 minutes ago
"the problem isn't that fans want this player or that. The problem is that when the club want a player, they won't get him if other top clubs are in for him."
-------------------------------------
(Supposing for a moment this is universally true) what do you propose to do about it? Not being able to compete on transfer fees / salaries alone has been a reality domestically since about 2003. It has always been a reality vis-a-vis the top European clubs of the day.
Given that anyone with eyes and a memory already knows this, where does the tidal wave of grief come from now (assuming the management was indeed prepared to spend a huge sum on improving an area that didn't need as much refurbishment as others)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it's just rather frustrating when you have Gill just last week insulting the intelligence of our fans by claiming we CAN still compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market. He'd be better to hold counsel, rather than making claims that are contradicted on a regular basis.
I do admit that all the points some posters have (i.e do we need him/cm is far more important)made are all valid. However just to clarify the article i created earlier was not about stamping and crying for a hazard that has gone elsewhere or how utd can't compete in the market again. The point was how posters here were able and willing to create over a thousand article related to hazard and then as soon as he signs elsewhere some of those posters now tell us- he is not what we wanted anyway, he's going to flop, if he wanted fame he should have come to ot, a veron incarnation, etc. As a united fan it just makes us seem arrogant, childish and mean. I do agree that his transfer fees if accurate should be used in two or three other positions but please no more on people like tosic, ljajic, bebe,obertan. A proven quality is not such a bad thing. And we know them not all are expensive or dramatic like mr. Hazard
People need to chill. Unless i'm mistaken we did miss out on the league by goal difference. Too many supporters seem to lie awake at night looking at a world XI panini stickers collection and hope that is what united will end up like. Its the best TEAM that wins not collection of individuals. Whilst Fergie is in charge be assured we'd be right up there as one of the best teams. The only concern i see is the continued use of Giggs and Scholes. particularly the latter who we seem to rely on a bit too much whereas Giggs is a useful bit part player.
Abramovich runs Chelsea likes it his own personal Panini stickers collection. That's up to him but hes been their Achilles Heel just as much as their savior as by rights they should have won everything in sight but his constantly interference has caused them problems. City are the big worry as, not only do they have more cash, but they have owners who leave the footballing decisions to the football people at the club and don't tend to interfere so much. I still see them as the far bigger threat as they have the best squad and don't need a big overhaul like Chelsea.
There is a lot of hype around Hazard, and it seems a lot of undoubted potential. It's one thing being a star in the French league, another cutting it in the Prem, Serie A, or La Liga. It could well be that Hazard really is the real deal and goes on to have a great career at the very top and truly become a modern great. But the guy is 21 years old, and I'm not sure that potential, hype, and shining in the French league justify a reported £100k per week after tax.
Of course, any signing is a risk, and I don't want this post to come across as sour grapes because City missed out on him. I rather mean it as a dose of realism. Its not so much a dig at Chelsea for getting their man (full credit to them for that, and sometimes the risk is worth taking). Rather it's about United fans such as the OP not using their failure to land Hazard as an indication that all is not well with their club.
Fair play OP
Although I think you're doing yourself down....get shot of Berba & some other dead wood & I see some quality coming your way...
No way SAF is letting that shat season go unpunished
I'm not gonna worry about it until window closes, by then hopefully we will have stronger squad anyway and people will be happy and excited for new season.
Kagawa hopefully will sign he's a top top player
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
As for hulk,he's overated,I recall man citys defence having him in there back pocket.
========================
The young lad that plays next to Hulk at Porto looks pretty handy though!
I think i fall somewhere in between. Whilst I'm not particularly worried about losing out to Chelsea for Hazard (we were NEVER going to get him anyway and i always felt that those who thought we were getting him were kidding themselves), I am a little concerned about our ability to compete in the transfer market.
Regarding some of the earlier posts here, I think it warrants a little more consideration than kids getting upset because they can't get a new toy when all their friends have. This really isn't about want, it's about need. Everyone can see we need to strengthen, particularly as we know for a fact that City will strengthen further this summer. There is no doubt in mind that this need to strengthen is not lost on Fergie, not least because he's said himself that there will be transfer activity. And so, evidently, we need to make some signings.
Then you've got the people who constantly bleat on about "Let's sign X Y Z because they're so good" who genuinely seem to think that assembling a dream team is realistic and workable. On the other hand you've got people saying in response "United don't need to sign players like that, we've never been about signing big players". Well, this is just as wrong. Clearly, we all know we have a history of rearing young talent, making bargain buys and constructing a team rather than a group of individuals. But this has always been supplemented by star buys. Some haven't worked out (Veron, Berbatov), but most have (Stam, Rio, Rooney, Van Nistelrooy, Cole, Keane).
The reality is, whenever we've NEEDED a quality player, we've been able to go out and buy one. We undoubtedly need some quality talent in our team now. Whether it's to share the burden of goal-scoring, whether it's a creative player, a central midfielder to partner Carrick, or a left back to pressure Evra for a spot. We clearly NEED some quality in our team.
So the issue of whether we can compete with City and Chelsea is an important one. Personally, I'm not sure we can compete, certainly not in terms of finance. And, with City having won the league, we can no longer automatically assume a player should come to United for footballing reasons. So, yes, i am a little worried. I live in the real world and know that we need to input some fresh faces with real quality in our team but that our finances are not healthy enough to allow it. I can only see some big signings if we sell/ get rid of some current players. Luckily, it looks like that is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvDkVejQWmI
Yes it's only YouTube but you can get a glimpse of his ability. He's certainly no lame consolation prize if we do get him
The level of sulking by the OP is unreal. How old?
To think a club like Manchester United can't attract top talent stuns me. You don't seem to know very much about the club you 'support' or you're a small child in which case "Bless"
'But' I hear you say, 'Hazard didn't join us', so noone will. "Boo hoo."
What's worse is I doubt you've seen him play more than 1 or 2 full games, if that, but it's now armageddon.
You say it's going to be impossible to challenge for top honours just after we scored the same huge number of points as City in the league, 19pts ahead of the other teams, and because a quality 21 year old Belgian kid is joining Chelsea who came 6th!
Apparently this constitutes all the competition hoovering up all the top talent in the world or maybe you are referring to SAF pulling out of the Nasri deal or refusing to meet Inter/Sneijder's demands. Remind me also who signed the worlds top young keeper last year? Who signed England's most highly rated young defensive player last year? Or is it ready made superstars you are demanding before bed?
Also, apparently all the teams around us have bucket loads of talent and our rubbishy 89pt side has noone. "Diddums."
Then you say take away Vidic, Nani and Rooney from our side and we become very average. Take away 3 fantastic players, more than a quarter of a side, from most teams and they get strongly weakened (ask Wenger), but you seem to forget we just played a season without Vidic, and Nani only started 20 odd games, and remember when Rooney was away for half a season... remind me what happened then?
You saved the worst for last though. If Chelsea sign a striker form the Portuguese league to join young Hazard then 6th place Chelsea will suddenly be too strong for United who missed out on being champions in injury time of the final game! SAF might as well not bother adding to that squad either, it sounds pointless.
If SAF sorts out the CM with the bulk of our funds (assuming anyone will come to little old United after your sales job), strengthens full back and uses the remainder to add e.g. Kagawa as our 4th striker/10 to replace Berbatov then we will have top class squad capable of challenging for every honour, so perhaps wait for the transfer window (inter-federation) to even open before crying into your coco pops.
The Wonderfully Sweet Little Pea
I couldn't have put it better. In fact, I didn't.
There's nothing to add really, except for the observation that so far I haven't seen any of the sulkers respond to the reasonable, factual points with which some of us have challenged them. The inescapable conclusion is that they have only come onto the forum to emote.
Stopped reading when you said Nani.
Pea, excellent post. Excellent post indeed
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
posted 5 hours, 27 minutes ago
i think we have an image problem.
me and my dad were talking about this yesterday, in germany it seems people see united as this crusty old club full of old players and an old manager. not a place for young players at all. city are seen as the exciting club that is going places and we are seen as desperately trying to cling on at the top.
------------------------
I must say then many people in Germany do not know much about Utd then as we have a lot of young players, more than Chelsea, City and arguably Arsenal.
We have 2 old timers, that's it and they are bit part players.
Rio, Vidic and Carrick are still in good shape. What is wrong with our younger fans?
Pea
said same about 4 hours ago...but not as eloquently..
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
posted 1 minute ago
To think a club like Manchester United can't attract top talent stuns me. You don't seem to know very much about the club you 'support' or you're a small child in which case "Bless"
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
when was the last time we attracted top talent? tevez? can't think of anyone since.
--------
De Gea?
Can you also please provide me with a list of world class players Utd have signed who were world class before we signed them.
I'll get the ball rolling; Veron. Please continue
I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again.
Utd are skint and don´t have the money to buy the big players anymore.
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 41 seconds ago
I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again.
Utd are skint and don´t have the money to buy the big players anymore.
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
==========
You do realise your club cannot afford to run itself and is being propped up by a billionaire.
You can't even generate an operating profit
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You do realise your club cannot afford to run itself and is being propped up by a billionaire.
You can't even generate an operating profit
--------------------------------------------------------
Look mate my comment is not an attack on Utd, it´s just an honest opinion.
I believe that Utd were never really in the running for Hazard because they probably couldn´t afford him.
I respect what Utd have achieved in the game but from my point of view based on the last couple of seasons it appears to me that Utd are skint.
Why else did you not properly re-invest the 80 million from selling Ronaldo and why did you have to recall a retired 37 year old in January ?
You were meant to buy Schneijder last summer, he would have been a great signing. Why didn´t that happen either ?
Despite all the information released by Utd about making profits your club looks like it´s been financially crippled by the Glazers.
That is why I´m willing to bet that Utd don´t make any big signings this summer.
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
we've been through this argument millions of times. when people name the 5 or 6 players you say they weren't world class.
===================
The players you named weren't world class. Quite simple really. Utd do not sign world class players, we make them.
also de gea, not really, who else was interested in him?
------------------------
De Gea has been tipped to replace Cassillas in the spanish team. Rated more than Reina. The fact that no one else wanted him does not dismiss him as a talented footballer. That's a ridiculous view point.
nobody is talking about world class anyway, top class talent is what the op is talking about.
----------------------------
Utd sing top class talent when required, the fact we didn't sign hazard means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Still find it hard to believe we tried to sign him. he doesn;t fit the Utd player mould
==============================
in the past rooney or ronaldo came to us without a seconds hesitation. now the likes of özil or hazard aren't interested.
--------------------------------------------
Rooney is English 99% of British players would choose Utd over anyone else. Ozil wanted to play for Madrid, Hazard wants to play for the team who finished 6th in the league. What does that say about him?
You guys need to give the social media a rest and focus. This kid could very well flop and you would be first in line to slate him.
A player chose money over Utd, shock horror
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
What a peculiar comment, not only have they increased our revenue figures since their takeover. They've made us the biggest brand in the world, they've provided transfer funds for United and they've not interfered in club matters like your owner is doing. Just because SAF doesn't spend much, does not mean the club is being bled dry. We're doing very well, and produce double revenue figures than you do.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The Glazers can suck Utd dry all they want. It's their business. You do not complain about Asda and TEsco r your local pub so what's al lthe fuss about
Sign in if you want to comment
Gutted. But not just because of Hazard.
Page 2 of 4
posted on 29/5/12
comment by Red Russian (U4715) posted 4 minutes ago
"the problem isn't that fans want this player or that. The problem is that when the club want a player, they won't get him if other top clubs are in for him."
-------------------------------------
(Supposing for a moment this is universally true) what do you propose to do about it? Not being able to compete on transfer fees / salaries alone has been a reality domestically since about 2003. It has always been a reality vis-a-vis the top European clubs of the day.
Given that anyone with eyes and a memory already knows this, where does the tidal wave of grief come from now (assuming the management was indeed prepared to spend a huge sum on improving an area that didn't need as much refurbishment as others)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it's just rather frustrating when you have Gill just last week insulting the intelligence of our fans by claiming we CAN still compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market. He'd be better to hold counsel, rather than making claims that are contradicted on a regular basis.
posted on 29/5/12
I do admit that all the points some posters have (i.e do we need him/cm is far more important)made are all valid. However just to clarify the article i created earlier was not about stamping and crying for a hazard that has gone elsewhere or how utd can't compete in the market again. The point was how posters here were able and willing to create over a thousand article related to hazard and then as soon as he signs elsewhere some of those posters now tell us- he is not what we wanted anyway, he's going to flop, if he wanted fame he should have come to ot, a veron incarnation, etc. As a united fan it just makes us seem arrogant, childish and mean. I do agree that his transfer fees if accurate should be used in two or three other positions but please no more on people like tosic, ljajic, bebe,obertan. A proven quality is not such a bad thing. And we know them not all are expensive or dramatic like mr. Hazard
posted on 29/5/12
People need to chill. Unless i'm mistaken we did miss out on the league by goal difference. Too many supporters seem to lie awake at night looking at a world XI panini stickers collection and hope that is what united will end up like. Its the best TEAM that wins not collection of individuals. Whilst Fergie is in charge be assured we'd be right up there as one of the best teams. The only concern i see is the continued use of Giggs and Scholes. particularly the latter who we seem to rely on a bit too much whereas Giggs is a useful bit part player.
Abramovich runs Chelsea likes it his own personal Panini stickers collection. That's up to him but hes been their Achilles Heel just as much as their savior as by rights they should have won everything in sight but his constantly interference has caused them problems. City are the big worry as, not only do they have more cash, but they have owners who leave the footballing decisions to the football people at the club and don't tend to interfere so much. I still see them as the far bigger threat as they have the best squad and don't need a big overhaul like Chelsea.
posted on 29/5/12
There is a lot of hype around Hazard, and it seems a lot of undoubted potential. It's one thing being a star in the French league, another cutting it in the Prem, Serie A, or La Liga. It could well be that Hazard really is the real deal and goes on to have a great career at the very top and truly become a modern great. But the guy is 21 years old, and I'm not sure that potential, hype, and shining in the French league justify a reported £100k per week after tax.
Of course, any signing is a risk, and I don't want this post to come across as sour grapes because City missed out on him. I rather mean it as a dose of realism. Its not so much a dig at Chelsea for getting their man (full credit to them for that, and sometimes the risk is worth taking). Rather it's about United fans such as the OP not using their failure to land Hazard as an indication that all is not well with their club.
posted on 29/5/12
Fair play OP
Although I think you're doing yourself down....get shot of Berba & some other dead wood & I see some quality coming your way...
No way SAF is letting that shat season go unpunished
posted on 29/5/12
I'm not gonna worry about it until window closes, by then hopefully we will have stronger squad anyway and people will be happy and excited for new season.
Kagawa hopefully will sign he's a top top player
posted on 29/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/12
As for hulk,he's overated,I recall man citys defence having him in there back pocket.
========================
The young lad that plays next to Hulk at Porto looks pretty handy though!
posted on 29/5/12
I think i fall somewhere in between. Whilst I'm not particularly worried about losing out to Chelsea for Hazard (we were NEVER going to get him anyway and i always felt that those who thought we were getting him were kidding themselves), I am a little concerned about our ability to compete in the transfer market.
Regarding some of the earlier posts here, I think it warrants a little more consideration than kids getting upset because they can't get a new toy when all their friends have. This really isn't about want, it's about need. Everyone can see we need to strengthen, particularly as we know for a fact that City will strengthen further this summer. There is no doubt in mind that this need to strengthen is not lost on Fergie, not least because he's said himself that there will be transfer activity. And so, evidently, we need to make some signings.
Then you've got the people who constantly bleat on about "Let's sign X Y Z because they're so good" who genuinely seem to think that assembling a dream team is realistic and workable. On the other hand you've got people saying in response "United don't need to sign players like that, we've never been about signing big players". Well, this is just as wrong. Clearly, we all know we have a history of rearing young talent, making bargain buys and constructing a team rather than a group of individuals. But this has always been supplemented by star buys. Some haven't worked out (Veron, Berbatov), but most have (Stam, Rio, Rooney, Van Nistelrooy, Cole, Keane).
The reality is, whenever we've NEEDED a quality player, we've been able to go out and buy one. We undoubtedly need some quality talent in our team now. Whether it's to share the burden of goal-scoring, whether it's a creative player, a central midfielder to partner Carrick, or a left back to pressure Evra for a spot. We clearly NEED some quality in our team.
So the issue of whether we can compete with City and Chelsea is an important one. Personally, I'm not sure we can compete, certainly not in terms of finance. And, with City having won the league, we can no longer automatically assume a player should come to United for footballing reasons. So, yes, i am a little worried. I live in the real world and know that we need to input some fresh faces with real quality in our team but that our finances are not healthy enough to allow it. I can only see some big signings if we sell/ get rid of some current players. Luckily, it looks like that is happening.
posted on 29/5/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvDkVejQWmI
Yes it's only YouTube but you can get a glimpse of his ability. He's certainly no lame consolation prize if we do get him
posted on 29/5/12
The level of sulking by the OP is unreal. How old?
To think a club like Manchester United can't attract top talent stuns me. You don't seem to know very much about the club you 'support' or you're a small child in which case "Bless"
'But' I hear you say, 'Hazard didn't join us', so noone will. "Boo hoo."
What's worse is I doubt you've seen him play more than 1 or 2 full games, if that, but it's now armageddon.
You say it's going to be impossible to challenge for top honours just after we scored the same huge number of points as City in the league, 19pts ahead of the other teams, and because a quality 21 year old Belgian kid is joining Chelsea who came 6th!
Apparently this constitutes all the competition hoovering up all the top talent in the world or maybe you are referring to SAF pulling out of the Nasri deal or refusing to meet Inter/Sneijder's demands. Remind me also who signed the worlds top young keeper last year? Who signed England's most highly rated young defensive player last year? Or is it ready made superstars you are demanding before bed?
Also, apparently all the teams around us have bucket loads of talent and our rubbishy 89pt side has noone. "Diddums."
Then you say take away Vidic, Nani and Rooney from our side and we become very average. Take away 3 fantastic players, more than a quarter of a side, from most teams and they get strongly weakened (ask Wenger), but you seem to forget we just played a season without Vidic, and Nani only started 20 odd games, and remember when Rooney was away for half a season... remind me what happened then?
You saved the worst for last though. If Chelsea sign a striker form the Portuguese league to join young Hazard then 6th place Chelsea will suddenly be too strong for United who missed out on being champions in injury time of the final game! SAF might as well not bother adding to that squad either, it sounds pointless.
If SAF sorts out the CM with the bulk of our funds (assuming anyone will come to little old United after your sales job), strengthens full back and uses the remainder to add e.g. Kagawa as our 4th striker/10 to replace Berbatov then we will have top class squad capable of challenging for every honour, so perhaps wait for the transfer window (inter-federation) to even open before crying into your coco pops.
posted on 29/5/12
The Wonderfully Sweet Little Pea
I couldn't have put it better. In fact, I didn't.
There's nothing to add really, except for the observation that so far I haven't seen any of the sulkers respond to the reasonable, factual points with which some of us have challenged them. The inescapable conclusion is that they have only come onto the forum to emote.
posted on 29/5/12
Stopped reading when you said Nani.
posted on 29/5/12
Pea, excellent post. Excellent post indeed
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
posted 5 hours, 27 minutes ago
i think we have an image problem.
me and my dad were talking about this yesterday, in germany it seems people see united as this crusty old club full of old players and an old manager. not a place for young players at all. city are seen as the exciting club that is going places and we are seen as desperately trying to cling on at the top.
------------------------
I must say then many people in Germany do not know much about Utd then as we have a lot of young players, more than Chelsea, City and arguably Arsenal.
We have 2 old timers, that's it and they are bit part players.
Rio, Vidic and Carrick are still in good shape. What is wrong with our younger fans?
posted on 29/5/12
Pea
said same about 4 hours ago...but not as eloquently..
posted on 29/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/12
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
posted 1 minute ago
To think a club like Manchester United can't attract top talent stuns me. You don't seem to know very much about the club you 'support' or you're a small child in which case "Bless"
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
when was the last time we attracted top talent? tevez? can't think of anyone since.
--------
De Gea?
Can you also please provide me with a list of world class players Utd have signed who were world class before we signed them.
I'll get the ball rolling; Veron. Please continue
posted on 29/5/12
I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again.
Utd are skint and don´t have the money to buy the big players anymore.
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
posted on 29/5/12
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 41 seconds ago
I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again.
Utd are skint and don´t have the money to buy the big players anymore.
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
==========
You do realise your club cannot afford to run itself and is being propped up by a billionaire.
You can't even generate an operating profit
posted on 29/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/12
You do realise your club cannot afford to run itself and is being propped up by a billionaire.
You can't even generate an operating profit
--------------------------------------------------------
Look mate my comment is not an attack on Utd, it´s just an honest opinion.
I believe that Utd were never really in the running for Hazard because they probably couldn´t afford him.
I respect what Utd have achieved in the game but from my point of view based on the last couple of seasons it appears to me that Utd are skint.
Why else did you not properly re-invest the 80 million from selling Ronaldo and why did you have to recall a retired 37 year old in January ?
You were meant to buy Schneijder last summer, he would have been a great signing. Why didn´t that happen either ?
Despite all the information released by Utd about making profits your club looks like it´s been financially crippled by the Glazers.
That is why I´m willing to bet that Utd don´t make any big signings this summer.
posted on 29/5/12
comment by Hippo on Toast (mufc) - the german nugget (U1301)
we've been through this argument millions of times. when people name the 5 or 6 players you say they weren't world class.
===================
The players you named weren't world class. Quite simple really. Utd do not sign world class players, we make them.
also de gea, not really, who else was interested in him?
------------------------
De Gea has been tipped to replace Cassillas in the spanish team. Rated more than Reina. The fact that no one else wanted him does not dismiss him as a talented footballer. That's a ridiculous view point.
nobody is talking about world class anyway, top class talent is what the op is talking about.
----------------------------
Utd sing top class talent when required, the fact we didn't sign hazard means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Still find it hard to believe we tried to sign him. he doesn;t fit the Utd player mould
==============================
in the past rooney or ronaldo came to us without a seconds hesitation. now the likes of özil or hazard aren't interested.
--------------------------------------------
Rooney is English 99% of British players would choose Utd over anyone else. Ozil wanted to play for Madrid, Hazard wants to play for the team who finished 6th in the league. What does that say about him?
You guys need to give the social media a rest and focus. This kid could very well flop and you would be first in line to slate him.
A player chose money over Utd, shock horror
posted on 29/5/12
The Glazers have sucked Utd dry and I will be very suprised if Utd make any big signings this summer.
What a peculiar comment, not only have they increased our revenue figures since their takeover. They've made us the biggest brand in the world, they've provided transfer funds for United and they've not interfered in club matters like your owner is doing. Just because SAF doesn't spend much, does not mean the club is being bled dry. We're doing very well, and produce double revenue figures than you do.
posted on 29/5/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/5/12
The Glazers can suck Utd dry all they want. It's their business. You do not complain about Asda and TEsco r your local pub so what's al lthe fuss about
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