You just reveal how so little you know.

Do You seriously believe messi's game depends less on pace than Ronaldo's?

What makes messi special is not his ball handling, there have been players who carried the ball even better and more beautifully.
What makes him special is the combination of ball control with speed, raw speed. That's how he gets between the halfway life and the opponents goal with defenders behind him.
He then gets the goals without which he's just another another who everyone would soon forget because he had no goals.

All that will be gone, with its goal threat when the pace goes with wear and age.

Did you even read what I posted? I said that Messi has his vision and pacing to fall back on if his pace goes - I could easily see him playing a midfield role in his 30s.

Sorry meant " another iniesta"

Also I don't think that anyone who knows anything about football is going to forget Iniesta in a hurry. Absolutely fantastic player.

What makes messi special is not his ball handling, there have been players who carried the ball even better and more beautifully.
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Good god.

I think " vision" is overated. How?

Its easy to show vision in team that thrives on quick and continous movement with team mates always running into position and the person with the ball always having options.
A player could easily be seen as having vision playing for Arsenal due to their style of play. Even song showed "vision" in his last season at Arsenal.

When you can thread a ball through a crowded penalty area as messi has done aplenty, I think you can safely say you have vision. not only the vision,but also the execution. he does it perfectly. even today he played some great through balls.

Santi

I think iniesta is more graceful on tthe ball than Messi. Do you not agree?

Yeah but he's nowhere near as effective.

And in any case the debate is Messi V Ronaldo.

So my statement above stands to which you exclaimed "Good god"?

Yeah the argument is Messi will be gone, just like Ronaldo will be, when his pace is gone.

I have laid down my reasons for thinking thus.

People should stop putting one up and lowering another. They are both great players.
The "another level, planet " statement is absolute nonsense.

So because he's not the best in the world my point is disproven? For the record, even though this has nothing to do with it, I can see Iniesta playing like he does now in his mid-30's too.

Messi has pace, but he has a different artillery to Ronaldo.

My dear Santi here are my arguments

Messi is a special special player but depends on pace as much as Ronaldo does and would decline greatly,just as Ronaldo would, when he loses that pace.

As a support ifor my argument I called up the wonderful Iniesta who has greater ball skills and gracefullness than Messi yet rated much below Messi because he cannot afford the goals. The goals having been afforded by Messi due to his far superior agility and speed to iniesta's without which Messi would end up another ball handling iniesta who will sooner be forgotten than both Ronaldo and Messi.

Wayne, if Messi - pace = Iniesta, what does Ronaldo - pace = ?

"Messi is a special special player but depends on pace as much as Ronaldo does..."
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Yeah, no he doesn't.

"...and would decline greatly,just as Ronaldo would, when he loses that pace."
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Yeah he would decline. But he'd still be able to do a great job in midfield. Ronaldo couldn't. Surely as a Scholes-watcher you can understand this?

I don't know why you keep bringing up Iniesta.

That equation isn't absolute.

Of all the Great players that we have witnessed in recent years Ronaldo has been People could not really liken to any other. Its difficult for me to answer that question.
Such a player your equqtion demands may not exist though.

Well tbh I was just going with what you said about Messi. He and Iniesta are different players regardless of pace, and Iniesta isn't exactly slow.

In my view Messi is simply a better player then Ronaldo. There are some things Ronaldo can do better, and being 2nd best to perhaps the best player ever (debatable ad infinitum) is nothing to be ashamed of, but Messi's all round game is something else. For example these days I'd much rather have him as my set piece taker over Ronaldo.

Imagine Barcelona without Messi. That's what Messi is without speed to cover ground faster than defenders.

If you watch him you should know this. Ronaldo can stand away from the box and scream it without needing to get to the box that's why he does it regularly( for instance against Ajax midweek).

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All those saying once Ronaldo loses his pace will be marked out of games, did you say the same thing when Zidane lost his pace?

Ronaldo will still be a force even without his pace he will adapt his game for sure. Quality players can adapt well thats what makes them so good

Messi is the best since Maradona (the best of all time - but also a complete ).

Ronaldo is great, currently the 2nd best player in the world - unfortunately he is also a