Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"There shouldn't be any benefits"
Boh.
Applying for jobs is the easy part FTS. Like I say, I applied for about 250 different jobs, signed up for agencies etc, and I still ended up getting a job at a place my dad works! During that time, I only had 3 interviews. My CV hardly looked bad, as I'd worked throughout my time at uni, and little before and I still wasn't getting called back.
i claim child tax benefits and i dont feel guilty.
ive worked for 18 years, and when i havent, i have never claimed any type of benefit, and my mrs has worked since she was 15.
we had our second child last year and i said to her feck it, we'll claim something for a change, we've put enough in over the years, dont go back to work, spend time with our daughter.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I employ people. When we advertise for recruitment (which isn't often these days, we normally have to find ways to sack people these days)... I am embarrassed by the amount of applicants we get, for the most menial jobs. We have to sift through hundreds and hundreds of CVs, all capable of the requirement, many from graduates. I wont tell you the methods we use to dismiss the majority of these CVs to a manageable amount. But if you ara a jobseeker you would cry.
Applying for jobs is the easy part FTS. Like I say, I applied for about 250 different jobs, signed up for agencies etc, and I still ended up getting a job at a place my dad works! During that time, I only had 3 interviews. My CV hardly looked bad, as I'd worked throughout my time at uni, and little before and I still wasn't getting called back.
-----
It doesn't take 12 months to find a job.
The real issue here is people thinking they are above certain jobs to the point of claiming benefits instead.
All these 'bloody foreigners coming here taking all our jobs' are actually filling vacancies that the typical unemployed Brit feels is 'below' them.
If I was really struggling to find work I would get one of the millions of advertised cleaning roles on the jobsite.
Too many people think the country owes them something. Sick of all the arrogant little shìts fresh out of uni sending me CVs saying how much they want to work in TV and then feeling affronted when I offer them work experience/shadowing opportunities because they're expecting me to say: "sure, come in and work for me as an editor for £300 a day."
Pay your dues, earn your living.
People want everything for nothing these day.
Individuals who've been "job hunting" for 12 months or more should be obliged to do 2 days a week of communit service in order to earn their benefit.
Individuals who've been "job hunting" for 12 months or more should be obliged to do 2 days a week of communit service in order to earn their benefit.
-------------
This.
Before I ended up where I am, I was applying for jobs in places like McDonalds, jobs cleaning trains, etc, etc. I'd have jumped at the chance of work experience, but you can't expect people to work for free just for the experience, because what happens is, you keep them around for 3 months, then tell them they're not what you're looking for, so you just got 3 months work, for free. Obviously, if they're expecting ridiculous amounts of pay, then they're deluded. While I was at Uni, I worked in IT support for 6 months, on an £18k a year contract, so why would I not be entitled to earn a similar amount to that, if I already have the experience.
"I employ people. When we advertise for recruitment (which isn't often these days, we normally have to find ways to sack people these days)... I am embarrassed by the amount of applicants we get, for the most menial jobs. We have to sift through hundreds and hundreds of CVs, all capable of the requirement, many from graduates. I wont tell you the methods we use to dismiss the majority of these CVs to a manageable amount. But if you ara a jobseeker you would cry."
Ditto, to be honest.
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
posted 28 minutes ago
they should work for their doll money IMO
**
you mean call it a salary?
If you like, those who are able to work should do community service after a few months on job seekers. In something cases people genuinely cannot find a job, hence the 3-6 month blanket but anybody who takes longer to find a job should be doing something for the community they are currently sponging off.
I know it isn't always the case, but I mnow a LOT of people who claim benefits, emergency benefits ect and spend it all on drugs, drink, clothes ect with no intention if working. Some even work for cash and still claim. It's all to common and too easy. If people had to do community service for such a poor wage they'd soon find a job.
The real issue here is people thinking they are above certain jobs to the point of claiming benefits instead.
but you can't expect people to work for free just for the experience, because what happens is, you keep them around for 3 months, then tell them they're not what you're looking for, so you just got 3 months work, for free.
-----
Actually, if they are over 18 we can offer a maximum of 1 week unpaid work-experience.
We certainly can expect people to work for free for the experience; we've all had to do it! TV/Media is the most overly-demanded industry in terms of applicants. 99.9% of the people working in television had to do work experience at some point in their career (Including the likes of Dermot O'Leary and the vast majority of TV presenters/Personalities). Then it's typically a good 6 - 24 months paid work as a runner depending on what area you want to go into. Then, and only then, are you considered to have proven yourself.
Keeping someone on for 3 months unpaid is illegal. Most shadowing opportunities are literally one day. We don't take the pìss, we just expect people to take the opportunity and show the desire to work with us.
Exactly BB, but even a minimum wage job is far more money a week than sitting on the dole. Not to mention going in to the dole office place was the single most depressing thing I've done. Every week for 2 months, it was absolutely vile, seeing the kind of people who live on the dole, and thinking to myself - this is what people are going to think of me
RB&W - that's good for you as an employer then, I have to say when interviewing and taking people on in my team I have had a tough time in the past year.
Me and my manager look trough loads of garbage cv's, appalling interviews and a high turnover of staff because we just can't find anybody to meet the standards we need. We take risks on young, unemployed locals because thats both all we can find plus the MD likes to give people a chance and they practically throw it in our faces.
If you want a job you will find one, end of story.
We certainly can expect people to work for free for the experience; we've all had to do it! TV/Media is the most overly-demanded industry in terms of applicants. 99.9% of the people working in television had to do work experience at some point in their career (Including the likes of Dermot O'Leary and the vast majority of TV presenters/Personalities). Then it's typically a good 6 - 24 months paid work as a runner depending on what area you want to go into. Then, and only then, are you considered to have proven yourself.
Keeping someone on for 3 months unpaid is illegal. Most shadowing opportunities are literally one day. We don't take the pìss, we just expect people to take the opportunity and show the desire to work with us.
---
I did several bouts of work experience during my time at uni during term times. At what point do you go from inexperienced and 'we need you to work for a week' to being able to actually be offered a job? I appreciate that our industries are 2 completely different areas. In the job I'm currently in, I am probably the 'bottom rung' I'm doing a lot of the things that no one else wants to do, but it is still to do with the area I want to work in. But at the same time, I am doing a lot of the more technical stuff that the people immediately above me are doing. This is the position I was looking for, not being paid amazingly well, but learning the industry more.
I might have been exaggerating with 3 months. I hope I wasn't coming across as a type who wanted something for nothing ^
so why would I not be entitled to earn a similar amount to that, if I already have the experience.
------
You're not entitled to anything...
...there we have it. Why should people pay taxes to support those who feel that they are 'entitled' to better jobs than those available?
Exactly Jay!!! I had to do it for a month myself when back from travelling, worst experience if my life, I don't know how people get to the stage where they see it as an acceptable life to lead.
It doesn't take 12 months to find a job.
------------------------
Rubbish. It can take much longer.
I had a spell of unemployment of over a year because job prospects are few and far between in Northern Ireland.
I applied for 100s of jobs. Jobs where I did not meet the requirements but took a chance anyway. Jobs where I was way over qualified and knew I wouldn't get the job for that reason.
There is a lot of rubbish spouted about people on benefits going on holidays, drinking, smoking, buying big TVs etc and it is nothing but Daily Mail rhetoric - completely false and offensive.
You're not entitled to anything...
...there we have it. Why should people pay taxes to support those who feel that they are 'entitled' to better jobs than those available?
---
If I have worked for a collective time of 18 months whilst still in full time education, and earning that wage, surely that proves I have the experience to warrant a similar position on a similar wage? I'm not saying that I should be entitled to that much if I were cleaning, or something. But if I'm going in to an IT related job then surely they should be offering market value, which for the areas I have experience in, is anywhere between 17k and 24k depending on where you go.
If you've put the effort in to get off your ar se, put yourself in massive amounts of debt, in order to get yourself a bit of paper that says you're quite intelligent AND you have the experience to back it up, then no, you're not entitled to anything, but you're damn well going to get what you deserve. As I say, I would happily have done a cleaning job while looking for a better position.
Not to mention, personally, I am aiming for a long career, and by the time I have paid my student loans off, and have finished paying the taxes that I will have to pay, I will have paid back infinitely more in to the system than I took out.
At what point do you go from inexperienced and 'we need you to work for a week' to being able to actually be offered a job?
-----
Given that the majority of entry-level TV work is freelance, I will admit that the line is blurred. However, I can honestly say that a good percentage of those who do a week of work-experience go into paid freelance work pretty quickly after that as runners/audience hosts etc.. (the other 10% are the complete donuts who showed nothing to suggest that they would be of any use; these people will never get called back for work experience in the same department - all departments work independently from each other so recruitment is less centralised - and will probably not end up working in the media long term barring a serious change in attitude).
I don't know how people get to the stage where they see it as an acceptable life to lead.
-----
Lack of pride?
"But if I'm going in to an IT related job then surely they should be offering market value, which for the areas I have experience in, is anywhere between 17k and 24k depending on where you go."
Bear in mind that market value is dependent on what salary people are willing to accept. If an employer can offer the lower end and still attract the same people (and retain them, if there are no other jobs available), then they are always going to do that.
My company does not do that as I don't believe in it, I pay slightly above the market value. For that though, I expect slightly above market performance!
I think the main difference is, there are some people, usually uni/A level graduates, who are using it benefits as a temporary stop gap until they can get something better/ in the area they're looking for. The problem comes when you have people making a lifestyle choice, who haven't bothered to get an education, who just leave school and expect to go in to a high paid job and WONT take worse jobs because they feel they are better than them.
Whilst I was signing on, there was a mandatory young persons 'group session' where there were supposed to be around 30 or so people turn up, and get taught how to do things like CVs (Complete waste of time). The only people that turned up, were 7 uni graduates, the rest were, apparently, your typical run of the mill 18 year old wasters ^
Not to mention, personally, I am aiming for a long career, and by the time I have paid my student loans off, and have finished paying the taxes that I will have to pay, I will have paid back infinitely more in to the system than I took out.
-----
...and that is what separates you from 99.9% of long-term benefit claimants. You have a genuine desire to contribute and felt ashamed relying on handouts.
Nani's Balls - ABUs can suck my banana
--------
You are an exception to the rule. From what i have witnessed, the majority of long-term 'jobseekers' are not actively seeking employment.
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posted on 8/3/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/3/13
"There shouldn't be any benefits"
Boh.
posted on 8/3/13
Applying for jobs is the easy part FTS. Like I say, I applied for about 250 different jobs, signed up for agencies etc, and I still ended up getting a job at a place my dad works! During that time, I only had 3 interviews. My CV hardly looked bad, as I'd worked throughout my time at uni, and little before and I still wasn't getting called back.
posted on 8/3/13
i claim child tax benefits and i dont feel guilty.
ive worked for 18 years, and when i havent, i have never claimed any type of benefit, and my mrs has worked since she was 15.
we had our second child last year and i said to her feck it, we'll claim something for a change, we've put enough in over the years, dont go back to work, spend time with our daughter.
posted on 8/3/13
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I employ people. When we advertise for recruitment (which isn't often these days, we normally have to find ways to sack people these days)... I am embarrassed by the amount of applicants we get, for the most menial jobs. We have to sift through hundreds and hundreds of CVs, all capable of the requirement, many from graduates. I wont tell you the methods we use to dismiss the majority of these CVs to a manageable amount. But if you ara a jobseeker you would cry.
posted on 8/3/13
Applying for jobs is the easy part FTS. Like I say, I applied for about 250 different jobs, signed up for agencies etc, and I still ended up getting a job at a place my dad works! During that time, I only had 3 interviews. My CV hardly looked bad, as I'd worked throughout my time at uni, and little before and I still wasn't getting called back.
-----
It doesn't take 12 months to find a job.
The real issue here is people thinking they are above certain jobs to the point of claiming benefits instead.
All these 'bloody foreigners coming here taking all our jobs' are actually filling vacancies that the typical unemployed Brit feels is 'below' them.
If I was really struggling to find work I would get one of the millions of advertised cleaning roles on the jobsite.
Too many people think the country owes them something. Sick of all the arrogant little shìts fresh out of uni sending me CVs saying how much they want to work in TV and then feeling affronted when I offer them work experience/shadowing opportunities because they're expecting me to say: "sure, come in and work for me as an editor for £300 a day."
Pay your dues, earn your living.
People want everything for nothing these day.
Individuals who've been "job hunting" for 12 months or more should be obliged to do 2 days a week of communit service in order to earn their benefit.
posted on 8/3/13
Individuals who've been "job hunting" for 12 months or more should be obliged to do 2 days a week of communit service in order to earn their benefit.
-------------
This.
posted on 8/3/13
Before I ended up where I am, I was applying for jobs in places like McDonalds, jobs cleaning trains, etc, etc. I'd have jumped at the chance of work experience, but you can't expect people to work for free just for the experience, because what happens is, you keep them around for 3 months, then tell them they're not what you're looking for, so you just got 3 months work, for free. Obviously, if they're expecting ridiculous amounts of pay, then they're deluded. While I was at Uni, I worked in IT support for 6 months, on an £18k a year contract, so why would I not be entitled to earn a similar amount to that, if I already have the experience.
posted on 8/3/13
"I employ people. When we advertise for recruitment (which isn't often these days, we normally have to find ways to sack people these days)... I am embarrassed by the amount of applicants we get, for the most menial jobs. We have to sift through hundreds and hundreds of CVs, all capable of the requirement, many from graduates. I wont tell you the methods we use to dismiss the majority of these CVs to a manageable amount. But if you ara a jobseeker you would cry."
Ditto, to be honest.
posted on 8/3/13
comment by RedBlackandWhiteside (U2335)
posted 28 minutes ago
they should work for their doll money IMO
**
you mean call it a salary?
If you like, those who are able to work should do community service after a few months on job seekers. In something cases people genuinely cannot find a job, hence the 3-6 month blanket but anybody who takes longer to find a job should be doing something for the community they are currently sponging off.
I know it isn't always the case, but I mnow a LOT of people who claim benefits, emergency benefits ect and spend it all on drugs, drink, clothes ect with no intention if working. Some even work for cash and still claim. It's all to common and too easy. If people had to do community service for such a poor wage they'd soon find a job.
posted on 8/3/13
The real issue here is people thinking they are above certain jobs to the point of claiming benefits instead.
posted on 8/3/13
but you can't expect people to work for free just for the experience, because what happens is, you keep them around for 3 months, then tell them they're not what you're looking for, so you just got 3 months work, for free.
-----
Actually, if they are over 18 we can offer a maximum of 1 week unpaid work-experience.
We certainly can expect people to work for free for the experience; we've all had to do it! TV/Media is the most overly-demanded industry in terms of applicants. 99.9% of the people working in television had to do work experience at some point in their career (Including the likes of Dermot O'Leary and the vast majority of TV presenters/Personalities). Then it's typically a good 6 - 24 months paid work as a runner depending on what area you want to go into. Then, and only then, are you considered to have proven yourself.
Keeping someone on for 3 months unpaid is illegal. Most shadowing opportunities are literally one day. We don't take the pìss, we just expect people to take the opportunity and show the desire to work with us.
posted on 8/3/13
Exactly BB, but even a minimum wage job is far more money a week than sitting on the dole. Not to mention going in to the dole office place was the single most depressing thing I've done. Every week for 2 months, it was absolutely vile, seeing the kind of people who live on the dole, and thinking to myself - this is what people are going to think of me
posted on 8/3/13
RB&W - that's good for you as an employer then, I have to say when interviewing and taking people on in my team I have had a tough time in the past year.
Me and my manager look trough loads of garbage cv's, appalling interviews and a high turnover of staff because we just can't find anybody to meet the standards we need. We take risks on young, unemployed locals because thats both all we can find plus the MD likes to give people a chance and they practically throw it in our faces.
If you want a job you will find one, end of story.
posted on 8/3/13
We certainly can expect people to work for free for the experience; we've all had to do it! TV/Media is the most overly-demanded industry in terms of applicants. 99.9% of the people working in television had to do work experience at some point in their career (Including the likes of Dermot O'Leary and the vast majority of TV presenters/Personalities). Then it's typically a good 6 - 24 months paid work as a runner depending on what area you want to go into. Then, and only then, are you considered to have proven yourself.
Keeping someone on for 3 months unpaid is illegal. Most shadowing opportunities are literally one day. We don't take the pìss, we just expect people to take the opportunity and show the desire to work with us.
---
I did several bouts of work experience during my time at uni during term times. At what point do you go from inexperienced and 'we need you to work for a week' to being able to actually be offered a job? I appreciate that our industries are 2 completely different areas. In the job I'm currently in, I am probably the 'bottom rung' I'm doing a lot of the things that no one else wants to do, but it is still to do with the area I want to work in. But at the same time, I am doing a lot of the more technical stuff that the people immediately above me are doing. This is the position I was looking for, not being paid amazingly well, but learning the industry more.
I might have been exaggerating with 3 months. I hope I wasn't coming across as a type who wanted something for nothing ^
posted on 8/3/13
so why would I not be entitled to earn a similar amount to that, if I already have the experience.
------
You're not entitled to anything...
...there we have it. Why should people pay taxes to support those who feel that they are 'entitled' to better jobs than those available?
posted on 8/3/13
Exactly Jay!!! I had to do it for a month myself when back from travelling, worst experience if my life, I don't know how people get to the stage where they see it as an acceptable life to lead.
posted on 8/3/13
It doesn't take 12 months to find a job.
------------------------
Rubbish. It can take much longer.
I had a spell of unemployment of over a year because job prospects are few and far between in Northern Ireland.
I applied for 100s of jobs. Jobs where I did not meet the requirements but took a chance anyway. Jobs where I was way over qualified and knew I wouldn't get the job for that reason.
There is a lot of rubbish spouted about people on benefits going on holidays, drinking, smoking, buying big TVs etc and it is nothing but Daily Mail rhetoric - completely false and offensive.
posted on 8/3/13
You're not entitled to anything...
...there we have it. Why should people pay taxes to support those who feel that they are 'entitled' to better jobs than those available?
---
If I have worked for a collective time of 18 months whilst still in full time education, and earning that wage, surely that proves I have the experience to warrant a similar position on a similar wage? I'm not saying that I should be entitled to that much if I were cleaning, or something. But if I'm going in to an IT related job then surely they should be offering market value, which for the areas I have experience in, is anywhere between 17k and 24k depending on where you go.
posted on 8/3/13
If you've put the effort in to get off your ar se, put yourself in massive amounts of debt, in order to get yourself a bit of paper that says you're quite intelligent AND you have the experience to back it up, then no, you're not entitled to anything, but you're damn well going to get what you deserve. As I say, I would happily have done a cleaning job while looking for a better position.
Not to mention, personally, I am aiming for a long career, and by the time I have paid my student loans off, and have finished paying the taxes that I will have to pay, I will have paid back infinitely more in to the system than I took out.
posted on 8/3/13
At what point do you go from inexperienced and 'we need you to work for a week' to being able to actually be offered a job?
-----
Given that the majority of entry-level TV work is freelance, I will admit that the line is blurred. However, I can honestly say that a good percentage of those who do a week of work-experience go into paid freelance work pretty quickly after that as runners/audience hosts etc.. (the other 10% are the complete donuts who showed nothing to suggest that they would be of any use; these people will never get called back for work experience in the same department - all departments work independently from each other so recruitment is less centralised - and will probably not end up working in the media long term barring a serious change in attitude).
posted on 8/3/13
I don't know how people get to the stage where they see it as an acceptable life to lead.
-----
Lack of pride?
posted on 8/3/13
"But if I'm going in to an IT related job then surely they should be offering market value, which for the areas I have experience in, is anywhere between 17k and 24k depending on where you go."
Bear in mind that market value is dependent on what salary people are willing to accept. If an employer can offer the lower end and still attract the same people (and retain them, if there are no other jobs available), then they are always going to do that.
My company does not do that as I don't believe in it, I pay slightly above the market value. For that though, I expect slightly above market performance!
posted on 8/3/13
I think the main difference is, there are some people, usually uni/A level graduates, who are using it benefits as a temporary stop gap until they can get something better/ in the area they're looking for. The problem comes when you have people making a lifestyle choice, who haven't bothered to get an education, who just leave school and expect to go in to a high paid job and WONT take worse jobs because they feel they are better than them.
Whilst I was signing on, there was a mandatory young persons 'group session' where there were supposed to be around 30 or so people turn up, and get taught how to do things like CVs (Complete waste of time). The only people that turned up, were 7 uni graduates, the rest were, apparently, your typical run of the mill 18 year old wasters ^
posted on 8/3/13
Not to mention, personally, I am aiming for a long career, and by the time I have paid my student loans off, and have finished paying the taxes that I will have to pay, I will have paid back infinitely more in to the system than I took out.
-----
...and that is what separates you from 99.9% of long-term benefit claimants. You have a genuine desire to contribute and felt ashamed relying on handouts.
Nani's Balls - ABUs can suck my banana
--------
You are an exception to the rule. From what i have witnessed, the majority of long-term 'jobseekers' are not actively seeking employment.
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