You can't expect anyone to learn if you can't talk about it. People seem concerned that Crooks' comments will stop managers talking.

Of course they won't - it's Garth Crooks.

It might make them reconsider saying things like "If I was a black player.." which really don't help anyone.

Just as the use of certain words is offensive, isn't that right TOOR you unt.

Only talking about female anatomy..

Darren

Agreed, it needs to be talked about.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

It might make them reconsider saying things like "If I was a black player.." which really don't help anyone.
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What is that so wrong with that reference. Jose has excellent man management skills and that is mainly because he understands how the players think. After managing countless black players Im sure he has a good idea how a black player representing his country on the international level feels. He is more informed on the matter to make an opinion than you and I.

The whole situation reminds me of the dark ages when women were regularly burnt at the stake because someone would wrongly accuse them of being a witch.
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Yeah I know exactly what you mean.

All it does is generate an atmosphere where people are scared to say anything in case they mistakingly make a comment that is interpreted by someone as being racist.

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Please explain how this point is relevant to what Crooks has said.. surely you don't really think he has that much influence.. certainly on the likes of Wenger and Mourinho. For me it's opened the debate on what football should do if racism in Russia remains a problem come the world cup.. it's not going to go away if we ignore it.

Of course he's an idiot, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Exactly Superb.

No Bale people like you make things worse as you think people can't have an opinion on something and you attribute comments to people they didn't make.

Two top managers came out and condemned racism and yet Crooks criticises them for it for not throwing the book at people who haven't yet been proving to be using racially abusive chants. Everything has to be innocent before guilty but people like you think that racial issues are above all else and thus it's guilty from the off. Punishment without reason, you know Luke the Hitler reference I made earlier?

Screen

I'm not black but I can imagine someone telling you how to react when you know they haven't experienced what it's like would be patronising to say the least.

Less pedantic version - yea I get his point, but I don't think it's an appropriate or helpful message when we're still dealing with monkey chants, bananas being thrown on the pitch etc.

Personally I don't have toimagine being a black person as it doesn't matter what colour you are, people are people. I know how it feels to be abused and certainly I wouldn't boycott a major competition which could make you a legend because of abuse. It won't achieve anything for the fight against racism.

Two top managers came out and condemned racism and yet Crooks criticises them for it

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He quoted the parts he had issue with, read it again.

Still using Hitler to try and make a point

Absolute ballacks TOOR, as white males we have no more idea what it's like to live in this world as a black man than we do a woman.

Your lack of empathy is shocking.

Luke the Hitler

Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
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Jose may not be black but he probably has managed many black players who has suffered from racist chants their entire career. This gives him more insight into the mind set of black players at the internaltional level than most pundits, journalists etc. If he believes black players will play in the worlcup then fair enough. he has more credentials to make such a statements than you give him credit for

comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 1 minute ago
Absolute ballacks TOOR, as white males we have no more idea what it's like to live in this world as a black man than we do a woman.

Your lack of empathy is shocking.
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I don't put racism on a pedestal so I put it there with other types of abuse and thus I have an idea how it feels to be abused. I have been abused for being Irish, for being British, for being protestant etc etc. but that's fine because I'm not black?

Abuse is abuse. It shouldn't happen and people should be punished for it.

Little Hitler's like you doesn't change that, only make it worse.

In fairness you can't accuse his lack of empathy as being shocking after claiming he will have no idea what it is like to be racially abused.

Pedant

I'm the one showing empathy, you're the one saying you can't as you're not black and thus don't know what it feels like. You certainly are confused.

Screen

I'm not disputing Mourinho's qualifications or standing in the game. In fact it's the exact reason I'm surprised he said what he did, it's all very well saying those things in private to your team, but acting as if you can speak for all black players when you've not even played at that level - let alone been the target of such abuse - is way off imo.

"I think both of them made sensible comments on a sad situation and only a fool like Garth Crooks can be offended by it."

+1

Screen
I used the same argument earlier in the thread but citing Crooks not Jose. Respected disagreed, and i await to see whether he/she be consistent in his condemnation by disagreeing with you as well.

TOOR

I said I can only imagine because we have no idea.. empathy is trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand how they feel.

You claim you don't have to because "people are people" .. if you think that the 'abuse' you've suffered is equal to a lifetime of racism then yes, your lack of empathy is shocking.

The fact you justify it with warped logic is just sad.

comment by Blanchflowers rags to Chiriches (U1763)
posted 1 minute ago
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I used the same argument earlier in the thread but citing Crooks not Jose. Respected disagreed, and i await to see whether he/she be consistent in his condemnation by disagreeing with you as well.
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Which argument was that?

Bales
Spot on.

Bale not sure what you´re getting at.

We can all agree that racsim is a terrible thing and must be stamped out.

The point is let´s not create an atmosphere in this country where people are scared to say anything for fear that they unintentionally and mistakingly make a comment that someone wrongly interprets as racist.

No good can come of that and as a society we are in real danger of going down that road.

The Roy Hodgson thing is a prime example of that.

Cheers Blanch.

TOOR - i'm done trying to debate this with you, it's going nowhere.