Screen
I'm not disputing Mourinho's qualifications or standing in the game. In fact it's the exact reason I'm surprised he said what he did, it's all very well saying those things in private to your team, but acting as if you can speak for all black players when you've not even played at that level - let alone been the target of such abuse - is way off imo.
--------------------------------------------------
No its not. As I said earlier he has the experience of working with players who was abused. If he thinks black players will not pass up the opportunity to represent his country in the world cup because of the abuse from fans then fair enough. He does not try to represent all black players. He is just answering a question that was directed at him. he is just voicing his opinion and that is spot on imo.
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR
I said I can only imagine because we have no idea.. empathy is trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand how they feel.
You claim you don't have to because "people are people" .. if you think that the 'abuse' you've suffered is equal to a lifetime of racism then yes, your lack of empathy is shocking.
The fact you justify it with warped logic is just sad.
----------------------------
I disagree. Racist abuse isn't worse than every other kind of abuse. Thus I can empathise with people who are abused, whether that be racial abuse, sectarian abuse or abused on the grounds of your nationality(which actually comes in for some of the same laws in the UK as racist abuse).
People should be punished but walking off and/or boycotting wouldn't help matters only make things worse and I don't need to be black to know that.
Crooks is an idiot for condemning two high profile managers who condemned racism and thus giving it more exposure and basically said that if you're not black, you can't say anything, which only idiot like you and him could come out with.
Superb
The point I'm getting at is that Crooks' opinion was disregarded en masse for the simple reason he's a numpty and they're both highly respected managers.
I agree with his criticism of Mourinho - he crossed the line and something needed to be said. Wenger not so much, although I can understand his frustrations with his overly political statement.
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
Cheers Blanch.
TOOR - i'm done trying to debate this with you, it's going nowhere.
-------------------------------
Good because your IQ makes this very difficult.
He also didn't call anyone racist.
That repeated suggestion is annoying.
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 17 seconds ago
Superb
The point I'm getting at is that Crooks' opinion was disregarded en masse for the simple reason he's a numpty and they're both highly respected managers.
-----------------------------
No. His opinion was condemned as two managers condemned racism but that idiot claimed they said things they didn't and told Mourinho he can't have an opinion because he's not black - which is racist.
Screen
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 15 seconds ago
Screen
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
-----------------------
He said if he was black, the key word in his quote being "I". He's not speaking for others.
Respected as you cant remember please see below for your edification:
YOU:
If Crooks is angered the given opinions then that makes him an idiot.
///
ME:
It doesnt make him an idiot, he is voicing his equally valid opinion of the words used by 2 PL managers. In the matter of free speech the topic is irrelevant.
In the matter of racism in football he is more informed than most.
-------------------
YOU:
comment by RespectedThere'sOnlyOneRedsWillian (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
He's more informed because he's black? For me people pushing and creating racism, who think that by walking off and boycotting, instead of punishing the offenders helps the issue, for me they are not informed and a little naive as well as being stupid buy hey what does my opinion matter on racism, only black's can have valid opinions and that's not at alp a racist suggestion.
ME:
Comment by Blanchflowers rags to Chiriches (U1763)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Respected.
Yes. In this matter of black professional footballers being subjected to racist bullying on a professional football pitch he is indeed more informed.
Because he is all of the above. It doesnt make his opinion more important, but he has actually stood in Toures shoes.
?
More informed of what? I know he's been abused, he knows he's been abused. What makes him more informed? Whether he has received abuse doesn't mean he's more informed on another player receiving abuse especially when it hasn't even been confirmed that abuse has even occurred.
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
If he thinks black players will not pass up the opportunity to represent his country in the world cup because of the abuse from fans then fair enough
---
Agreed. If he thinks they should then he should be asked to justify that opinion, and preferably with more personal insight than the interests of billions who want to watch football. Most of which I'm sure would not want to witness racist chanting.
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I dont understand what you are going on about. If jose said "all black players should ---" then you are correct. You dont even know what the question directed at him was. It could be "Jose If you are a black player would you play in the world cup in russia?"
All in all He expressed his opinion and I dont see many black internationals criticizing it. Just the idiot Crooks trying to raise his profile
"Agreed. If he thinks they should then he should be asked to justify that"
It's common sense why he thinks it. It won't achieve anything.
He's suggesting what he would do if he was a black player, from his point of authority, with a global influence,.he knows it'll be listened to. I don't think his suggestions are helpful and certainly wouldn't deter me if I was a racist Russian.
Crooks has expressed his opinion which is his job.. the other two are football managers.
Also, if you were a black professional footballer you would be an idiot to publicly criticise those two.. even if they were in the wrong. It's why we have the PFA.
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
-----------------------
As you like *sigh*
Its been an enlightening experience trying to debate with you but lifes to short to go around in circles.
Everyone else: a good exchange of views y'all
Im oot
Everybody in football has a job to do in regards to combating racism, with initiatives even set up to help...you may have heard of it, the Kick Racism Out of Football campaign? They were asked their opinions and they gave valid one's. Crooks was angry that they didn't condemn people when they weren't even proved guilty. That is obvious. He is an idiot.
certainly wouldn't deter me if I was a racist Russian
-----------------------------------------------
Do you think opinions of UK based managers and pundits will deter russian racist? Only ones that can deter them are UEFA, FIFA and russian government and thats where Crooks anger should be directed at. Since He decided to lash out at Wenger and Mourinho, It shows his idiocy or the will to raise himself at any opportunity. I cant decide which one
comment by Blanchflowers rags to Chiriches (U1763)
posted 13 minutes ago
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
-----------------------
As you like *sigh*
Its been an enlightening experience trying to debate with you but lifes to short to go around in circles.
Everyone else: a good exchange of views y'all
Im oot
--------------------------
Fecking stupid Canadians.
Do you think opinions of UK based managers and pundits will deter russian racist?
---
They are global celebrities, Mourinho especially. The PL is shown is virtually every corner of the globe. To deny their influence is deluded.
So don't you think it's damaging when that idiot Crooks attributes comments to them they didn't make and criticises them for not condemning something which isn't proved? Should every racist incident be guilty without proof? Would this be a solution or be damaging?
They are global celebrities, Mourinho especially. The PL is shown is virtually every corner of the globe. To deny their influence is deluded.
-----------------------------------------
If you believe some harsh words from Jose at random press conference will force racist to give up racism then you truly are deluded. He criticize the incident anyway and show them up to be an absolute minority and billions are against them.
If you are a racist in Russia what would you rather hear? black payers not coming to russia because of the their chants or players participating in the world cup. If they stop players from playing in the world cup theyll consider it an achievement and probably boast of their work.best way to go about it is getting the players to the world cup and kicking out racists from stadiums.
comment by RespectedThere'sOnlyOneRedsWillian (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR
I said I can only imagine because we have no idea.. empathy is trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand how they feel.
You claim you don't have to because "people are people" .. if you think that the 'abuse' you've suffered is equal to a lifetime of racism then yes, your lack of empathy is shocking.
The fact you justify it with warped logic is just sad.
----------------------------
I disagree. Racist abuse isn't worse than every other kind of abuse. Thus I can empathise with people who are abused, whether that be racial abuse, sectarian abuse or abused on the grounds of your nationality(which actually comes in for some of the same laws in the UK as racist abuse).
People should be punished but walking off and/or boycotting wouldn't help matters only make things worse and I don't need to be black to know that.
Crooks is an idiot for condemning two high profile managers who condemned racism and thus giving it more exposure and basically said that if you're not black, you can't say anything, which only idiot like you and him could come out with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense I have recieved all forms of abuse but racist comments are by far the worst and most cutting ive recieved. Someone who is not from an ethnic minority will never ever be able to empathise so i understand your comments. I cant put my finger on why it feels so bad, but you are made to feel inhuman. Maybe its linked to a feeling of rejection from society, while getting along within a society is normally a number one goal for our species
I've felt inhuman when being abused also, maybe you don't understand because you've only been racially abused and haven't received sectarian abuse for example.
Sign in if you want to comment
Garth Crooks on Wenger and Mourinho
Page 8 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 26/10/13
Screen
I'm not disputing Mourinho's qualifications or standing in the game. In fact it's the exact reason I'm surprised he said what he did, it's all very well saying those things in private to your team, but acting as if you can speak for all black players when you've not even played at that level - let alone been the target of such abuse - is way off imo.
--------------------------------------------------
No its not. As I said earlier he has the experience of working with players who was abused. If he thinks black players will not pass up the opportunity to represent his country in the world cup because of the abuse from fans then fair enough. He does not try to represent all black players. He is just answering a question that was directed at him. he is just voicing his opinion and that is spot on imo.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR
I said I can only imagine because we have no idea.. empathy is trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand how they feel.
You claim you don't have to because "people are people" .. if you think that the 'abuse' you've suffered is equal to a lifetime of racism then yes, your lack of empathy is shocking.
The fact you justify it with warped logic is just sad.
----------------------------
I disagree. Racist abuse isn't worse than every other kind of abuse. Thus I can empathise with people who are abused, whether that be racial abuse, sectarian abuse or abused on the grounds of your nationality(which actually comes in for some of the same laws in the UK as racist abuse).
People should be punished but walking off and/or boycotting wouldn't help matters only make things worse and I don't need to be black to know that.
Crooks is an idiot for condemning two high profile managers who condemned racism and thus giving it more exposure and basically said that if you're not black, you can't say anything, which only idiot like you and him could come out with.
posted on 26/10/13
Superb
The point I'm getting at is that Crooks' opinion was disregarded en masse for the simple reason he's a numpty and they're both highly respected managers.
I agree with his criticism of Mourinho - he crossed the line and something needed to be said. Wenger not so much, although I can understand his frustrations with his overly political statement.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
Cheers Blanch.
TOOR - i'm done trying to debate this with you, it's going nowhere.
-------------------------------
Good because your IQ makes this very difficult.
posted on 26/10/13
He also didn't call anyone racist.
That repeated suggestion is annoying.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 17 seconds ago
Superb
The point I'm getting at is that Crooks' opinion was disregarded en masse for the simple reason he's a numpty and they're both highly respected managers.
-----------------------------
No. His opinion was condemned as two managers condemned racism but that idiot claimed they said things they didn't and told Mourinho he can't have an opinion because he's not black - which is racist.
posted on 26/10/13
Screen
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 15 seconds ago
Screen
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
-----------------------
He said if he was black, the key word in his quote being "I". He's not speaking for others.
posted on 26/10/13
Respected as you cant remember please see below for your edification:
YOU:
If Crooks is angered the given opinions then that makes him an idiot.
///
ME:
It doesnt make him an idiot, he is voicing his equally valid opinion of the words used by 2 PL managers. In the matter of free speech the topic is irrelevant.
In the matter of racism in football he is more informed than most.
-------------------
YOU:
comment by RespectedThere'sOnlyOneRedsWillian (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
He's more informed because he's black? For me people pushing and creating racism, who think that by walking off and boycotting, instead of punishing the offenders helps the issue, for me they are not informed and a little naive as well as being stupid buy hey what does my opinion matter on racism, only black's can have valid opinions and that's not at alp a racist suggestion.
ME:
Comment by Blanchflowers rags to Chiriches (U1763)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Respected.
Yes. In this matter of black professional footballers being subjected to racist bullying on a professional football pitch he is indeed more informed.
Because he is all of the above. It doesnt make his opinion more important, but he has actually stood in Toures shoes.
?
posted on 26/10/13
More informed of what? I know he's been abused, he knows he's been abused. What makes him more informed? Whether he has received abuse doesn't mean he's more informed on another player receiving abuse especially when it hasn't even been confirmed that abuse has even occurred.
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
posted on 26/10/13
If he thinks black players will not pass up the opportunity to represent his country in the world cup because of the abuse from fans then fair enough
---
Agreed. If he thinks they should then he should be asked to justify that opinion, and preferably with more personal insight than the interests of billions who want to watch football. Most of which I'm sure would not want to witness racist chanting.
posted on 26/10/13
He pointedly says "if I was a black player.."
If that's not speaking for them I don't know what is.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I dont understand what you are going on about. If jose said "all black players should ---" then you are correct. You dont even know what the question directed at him was. It could be "Jose If you are a black player would you play in the world cup in russia?"
All in all He expressed his opinion and I dont see many black internationals criticizing it. Just the idiot Crooks trying to raise his profile
posted on 26/10/13
"Agreed. If he thinks they should then he should be asked to justify that"
It's common sense why he thinks it. It won't achieve anything.
posted on 26/10/13
He's suggesting what he would do if he was a black player, from his point of authority, with a global influence,.he knows it'll be listened to. I don't think his suggestions are helpful and certainly wouldn't deter me if I was a racist Russian.
Crooks has expressed his opinion which is his job.. the other two are football managers.
posted on 26/10/13
Also, if you were a black professional footballer you would be an idiot to publicly criticise those two.. even if they were in the wrong. It's why we have the PFA.
posted on 26/10/13
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
-----------------------
As you like *sigh*
Its been an enlightening experience trying to debate with you but lifes to short to go around in circles.
Everyone else: a good exchange of views y'all
Im oot
posted on 26/10/13
Everybody in football has a job to do in regards to combating racism, with initiatives even set up to help...you may have heard of it, the Kick Racism Out of Football campaign? They were asked their opinions and they gave valid one's. Crooks was angry that they didn't condemn people when they weren't even proved guilty. That is obvious. He is an idiot.
posted on 26/10/13
certainly wouldn't deter me if I was a racist Russian
-----------------------------------------------
Do you think opinions of UK based managers and pundits will deter russian racist? Only ones that can deter them are UEFA, FIFA and russian government and thats where Crooks anger should be directed at. Since He decided to lash out at Wenger and Mourinho, It shows his idiocy or the will to raise himself at any opportunity. I cant decide which one
posted on 26/10/13
It's definitely idiocy.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by Blanchflowers rags to Chiriches (U1763)
posted 13 minutes ago
I didn't say the first sentence you made up.
-----------------------
As you like *sigh*
Its been an enlightening experience trying to debate with you but lifes to short to go around in circles.
Everyone else: a good exchange of views y'all
Im oot
--------------------------
Fecking stupid Canadians.
posted on 26/10/13
Do you think opinions of UK based managers and pundits will deter russian racist?
---
They are global celebrities, Mourinho especially. The PL is shown is virtually every corner of the globe. To deny their influence is deluded.
posted on 26/10/13
So don't you think it's damaging when that idiot Crooks attributes comments to them they didn't make and criticises them for not condemning something which isn't proved? Should every racist incident be guilty without proof? Would this be a solution or be damaging?
posted on 26/10/13
They are global celebrities, Mourinho especially. The PL is shown is virtually every corner of the globe. To deny their influence is deluded.
-----------------------------------------
If you believe some harsh words from Jose at random press conference will force racist to give up racism then you truly are deluded. He criticize the incident anyway and show them up to be an absolute minority and billions are against them.
If you are a racist in Russia what would you rather hear? black payers not coming to russia because of the their chants or players participating in the world cup. If they stop players from playing in the world cup theyll consider it an achievement and probably boast of their work.best way to go about it is getting the players to the world cup and kicking out racists from stadiums.
posted on 26/10/13
comment by RespectedThere'sOnlyOneRedsWillian (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Bale's left it to Lamela (U17605)
posted 2 minutes ago
TOOR
I said I can only imagine because we have no idea.. empathy is trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand how they feel.
You claim you don't have to because "people are people" .. if you think that the 'abuse' you've suffered is equal to a lifetime of racism then yes, your lack of empathy is shocking.
The fact you justify it with warped logic is just sad.
----------------------------
I disagree. Racist abuse isn't worse than every other kind of abuse. Thus I can empathise with people who are abused, whether that be racial abuse, sectarian abuse or abused on the grounds of your nationality(which actually comes in for some of the same laws in the UK as racist abuse).
People should be punished but walking off and/or boycotting wouldn't help matters only make things worse and I don't need to be black to know that.
Crooks is an idiot for condemning two high profile managers who condemned racism and thus giving it more exposure and basically said that if you're not black, you can't say anything, which only idiot like you and him could come out with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense I have recieved all forms of abuse but racist comments are by far the worst and most cutting ive recieved. Someone who is not from an ethnic minority will never ever be able to empathise so i understand your comments. I cant put my finger on why it feels so bad, but you are made to feel inhuman. Maybe its linked to a feeling of rejection from society, while getting along within a society is normally a number one goal for our species
posted on 26/10/13
I've felt inhuman when being abused also, maybe you don't understand because you've only been racially abused and haven't received sectarian abuse for example.
Page 8 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9