Mata and Kagawa is the answer.
----
Mata yes, Kagawa, still a lot to prove
goes missing far too often but does well against mid table or below teams.
Dont think there is anyone left on here who can see them both play in the same side apart from Moyes
Moyes doesn't have balls to drop either of them....
Kagawa has nothing to prove. 2x Bundesliga champion, the star player in both seasons.
comment by Who's Kissing Cameras?! (U1703)
posted 28 seconds ago
Kagawa has nothing to prove. 2x Bundesliga champion, the star player in both seasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 59 seconds ago
Mata and Kagawa is the answer.
----
Mata yes, Kagawa, still a lot to prove
goes missing far too often but does well against mid table or below teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you remind me when Mata has turned up against the big sides? He was having the same issue that kags had when Moyes shunted him to the right. Kagawa does not have nothing to prove to anyone. If we are in doubt, sell him this summer and see what he does. We are going to have another pogba in our hands here mark my words.
Heisenberg
Why do you keep saying Kagawa goes missing in big games, when?
I think he still has much to prove (although things look good recently) but your excuse is wrong.
Kagawa might just need a player on the same wave length as himself. Mata is clearly that player.
The direct 4-4-2 getting the ball wide approach doesn't suit Kagawa.
Today we played far more shorter passes and he excelled.
It's not rocket science. Kagawa didn't become a bad player overnight. You just have to play the kind of football he craves for him to be effective.
RVP has to go for me this summer as daft as that sounds. We'd be losing a great great player but probably be better off as a team weirdly.
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
We played some really good football with Rooney and RVP against a terrible team.
Effectively it's difficult to judge exactly who is best for the side as we've played so many different combination of players that a performance like today might be simply down to the team clicking on the day, rather than it being a sign of things to come - as has been the case so often this season.
In principle I'd agree that Kagawa and Mata playing together looks a good bet to move our football forward, as their style compliment each other and they linked well together, but whether or not we should build our side around this based off of limited games together remains to be seen.
I still think we lack a pacy and direct winger with end product, rather than the shower of shiiite we currently possess in the winger department.
I've always said Mata is the answer to our #10 issue and is proving it, and a player like Kagawa just works so well next to him as they understand each other's game.
Both Rooney and RVP look best up top but I think we can all agree only 1 can really start. I personally prefer RVP but can totally understand why other want Rooney there.
I just don't see Moyes having the balls to drop 1 when they are both available.
Just to be clear and I've been saying this for a while, I do want RvP to be sold and for a formation like today to be played.
But what I'm trying to say is that if RvP stays he will never be happy with rotation. Rooney either.
When fit both have to play as they're massive players.
==========================================
even if its to the detriment of the team? thats just stupid, and if one of them wants to leave after being rotated then so be it, dont want anyone here who doesn't want to be here
IMO RVP can do everything Hernandez did today but better. But I understand with Rooneys new contract it's far more likely that RVP will leave rather than Rooney.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
comment by Mex- Janko is God (U6687)
posted 2 minutes ago
When fit both have to play as they're massive players.
==========================================
even if its to the detriment of the team? thats just stupid, and if one of them wants to leave after being rotated then so be it, dont want anyone here who doesn't want to be here
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This. We have sold both Ruud and Ronaldo who without a shadow of a doubt were very effective for us, as effective if not more than the aforementioned 2. This great club kept going.
Mex, I agree with you. But I'm trying to highlight the problem Moyes has inherited. He has two massive players who both are on astronomical wages and both are good enough to start. But we all know it affects about play.
From a financial side of things they are both massive assets to the club and we can't afford to annoy either so maybe Moyes does want to sell RvP but he can hardly drop him and alert the whole world to RvPs unhappiness so it's a balancing act.
It's easy for fans to drop players but Moyes is dealing with so many more factors.
I hope we do sell RvP as it's the only solution to the problem.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 16 seconds ago
Mex, I agree with you. But I'm trying to highlight the problem Moyes has inherited. He has two massive players who both are on astronomical wages and both are good enough to start. But we all know it affects about play.
From a financial side of things they are both massive assets to the club and we can't afford to annoy either so maybe Moyes does want to sell RvP but he can hardly drop him and alert the whole world to RvPs unhappiness so it's a balancing act.
It's easy for fans to drop players but Moyes is dealing with so many more factors.
I hope we do sell RvP as it's the only solution to the problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair assessment. But why is it that RVP should be sold? To my knowledge, we still have not seen RVP, MATA AND KAGS. Might get slated for this, but I personally feel the interchange in play between these three could be more mouth watering than anything we seen thus far.
if he cant drop a player because he thinks about what others will think about it then he aint the man for the job
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
i have to go with Robb here, can't blame moyes for this, i doubt there are many managers who can drop any of the two
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're did I say that? It's not as simple as that. If RvP gets dropped he puts in a transfer request. Same with Rooney.
It's a huge balancing act and maybe now we've seen how world class Mata is then Moyes can sell RvP this summer.
But it's certainly not about what people think. It's about managing huge assets correctly.
Moyes is the manager. Of course it's his fault if he cannot drop RVP.
Whether RVP deserves to be dropped is another matter altogether. But stop acting as if Moyes is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to team selection as he's simply not.
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I think it is well known that had ferguson stayed, rooney would've been shown the door this past summer. Jose mourinho would not have played both rvp and Rooney. The man hates playing two on top.
Sign in if you want to comment
Strength to bench Rooney or RVP
Page 1 of 4
posted on 5/4/14
Mata and Kagawa is the answer.
----
Mata yes, Kagawa, still a lot to prove
goes missing far too often but does well against mid table or below teams.
posted on 5/4/14
Dont think there is anyone left on here who can see them both play in the same side apart from Moyes
posted on 5/4/14
Moyes doesn't have balls to drop either of them....
posted on 5/4/14
Kagawa has nothing to prove. 2x Bundesliga champion, the star player in both seasons.
posted on 5/4/14
comment by Who's Kissing Cameras?! (U1703)
posted 28 seconds ago
Kagawa has nothing to prove. 2x Bundesliga champion, the star player in both seasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 5/4/14
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 59 seconds ago
Mata and Kagawa is the answer.
----
Mata yes, Kagawa, still a lot to prove
goes missing far too often but does well against mid table or below teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you remind me when Mata has turned up against the big sides? He was having the same issue that kags had when Moyes shunted him to the right. Kagawa does not have nothing to prove to anyone. If we are in doubt, sell him this summer and see what he does. We are going to have another pogba in our hands here mark my words.
posted on 5/4/14
Notes in!
posted on 5/4/14
Heisenberg
Why do you keep saying Kagawa goes missing in big games, when?
I think he still has much to prove (although things look good recently) but your excuse is wrong.
posted on 5/4/14
Kagawa might just need a player on the same wave length as himself. Mata is clearly that player.
The direct 4-4-2 getting the ball wide approach doesn't suit Kagawa.
Today we played far more shorter passes and he excelled.
It's not rocket science. Kagawa didn't become a bad player overnight. You just have to play the kind of football he craves for him to be effective.
RVP has to go for me this summer as daft as that sounds. We'd be losing a great great player but probably be better off as a team weirdly.
posted on 5/4/14
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
posted on 5/4/14
We played some really good football with Rooney and RVP against a terrible team.
Effectively it's difficult to judge exactly who is best for the side as we've played so many different combination of players that a performance like today might be simply down to the team clicking on the day, rather than it being a sign of things to come - as has been the case so often this season.
In principle I'd agree that Kagawa and Mata playing together looks a good bet to move our football forward, as their style compliment each other and they linked well together, but whether or not we should build our side around this based off of limited games together remains to be seen.
I still think we lack a pacy and direct winger with end product, rather than the shower of shiiite we currently possess in the winger department.
posted on 5/4/14
I've always said Mata is the answer to our #10 issue and is proving it, and a player like Kagawa just works so well next to him as they understand each other's game.
Both Rooney and RVP look best up top but I think we can all agree only 1 can really start. I personally prefer RVP but can totally understand why other want Rooney there.
I just don't see Moyes having the balls to drop 1 when they are both available.
posted on 5/4/14
Just to be clear and I've been saying this for a while, I do want RvP to be sold and for a formation like today to be played.
But what I'm trying to say is that if RvP stays he will never be happy with rotation. Rooney either.
posted on 5/4/14
When fit both have to play as they're massive players.
==========================================
even if its to the detriment of the team? thats just stupid, and if one of them wants to leave after being rotated then so be it, dont want anyone here who doesn't want to be here
posted on 5/4/14
IMO RVP can do everything Hernandez did today but better. But I understand with Rooneys new contract it's far more likely that RVP will leave rather than Rooney.
posted on 5/4/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
posted on 5/4/14
comment by Mex- Janko is God (U6687)
posted 2 minutes ago
When fit both have to play as they're massive players.
==========================================
even if its to the detriment of the team? thats just stupid, and if one of them wants to leave after being rotated then so be it, dont want anyone here who doesn't want to be here
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This. We have sold both Ruud and Ronaldo who without a shadow of a doubt were very effective for us, as effective if not more than the aforementioned 2. This great club kept going.
posted on 5/4/14
Mex, I agree with you. But I'm trying to highlight the problem Moyes has inherited. He has two massive players who both are on astronomical wages and both are good enough to start. But we all know it affects about play.
From a financial side of things they are both massive assets to the club and we can't afford to annoy either so maybe Moyes does want to sell RvP but he can hardly drop him and alert the whole world to RvPs unhappiness so it's a balancing act.
It's easy for fans to drop players but Moyes is dealing with so many more factors.
I hope we do sell RvP as it's the only solution to the problem.
posted on 5/4/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 16 seconds ago
Mex, I agree with you. But I'm trying to highlight the problem Moyes has inherited. He has two massive players who both are on astronomical wages and both are good enough to start. But we all know it affects about play.
From a financial side of things they are both massive assets to the club and we can't afford to annoy either so maybe Moyes does want to sell RvP but he can hardly drop him and alert the whole world to RvPs unhappiness so it's a balancing act.
It's easy for fans to drop players but Moyes is dealing with so many more factors.
I hope we do sell RvP as it's the only solution to the problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair assessment. But why is it that RVP should be sold? To my knowledge, we still have not seen RVP, MATA AND KAGS. Might get slated for this, but I personally feel the interchange in play between these three could be more mouth watering than anything we seen thus far.
posted on 5/4/14
if he cant drop a player because he thinks about what others will think about it then he aint the man for the job
posted on 5/4/14
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
posted on 5/4/14
i have to go with Robb here, can't blame moyes for this, i doubt there are many managers who can drop any of the two
posted on 5/4/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're did I say that? It's not as simple as that. If RvP gets dropped he puts in a transfer request. Same with Rooney.
It's a huge balancing act and maybe now we've seen how world class Mata is then Moyes can sell RvP this summer.
But it's certainly not about what people think. It's about managing huge assets correctly.
posted on 5/4/14
Moyes is the manager. Of course it's his fault if he cannot drop RVP.
Whether RVP deserves to be dropped is another matter altogether. But stop acting as if Moyes is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to team selection as he's simply not.
posted on 5/4/14
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by #Robb (U19350)
posted 2 minutes ago
It's not really about managerial strength. When fit both have to play as they're massive players. I agree we look better with just one starting.
If either one was dropped they'd ask to leave, no doubt about that so the only reason Moyes or anyone would drop them for longer than the odd game would be if that player was to be sold in the next window.
Rooney and RvP don't do rotation under any manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether they do rotation that's their problem. This is when good managers become great managers. No one man is more important than this club, Ferguson showed us this last season when he benched Rooney against Madrid. Something has to give here, and it takes strength from the manager to identify that playing both hinders our play, and one needs to be dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dropping Rooney for one game is hardly the same as regularly rotating two strikers who want to play every game.
Even if Jose was our manager he wouldn't drop either regularly unless he was gonna sell one like Mata.
For all we know RvP might be sold this summer and the Mata signing was for a reason. But Moyes cannot be blamed got inheriting two players who can't play together but also can't be regularly dropped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I think it is well known that had ferguson stayed, rooney would've been shown the door this past summer. Jose mourinho would not have played both rvp and Rooney. The man hates playing two on top.
Page 1 of 4