" If you take it the right way"
How do you know you, and not the terrorists are taking it the "right way".
Met Muhammed or Jesus have you?
United we win (U19958)
Why should people take what is good and bad from a book written 1400 years ago?
Uncle Adolf would have sorted em out.
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I do hope French is just indulging in a poor taste WUM. By his logic - committing genocide on a scale that far outscales the combined efforts of Hitler, Stalin and Mao is justified in order to eradicate the threat of a small minority within those populations - a member of the Taliban could read this thread, take in French's minority view and come to the conclusion that his organisation hasn't been nearly radical enough. Either way, it is a juvenile and sick contribution to the debate.
I believe that certain interpretations of Islam (for which there is nourishment within their holy book) are a cancer on our planet. However, we should bear in mind two things:
1) there are hundreds of millions of Muslims (e.g. my neighbours who give us a Christmas card every year and who played a crucial role in helping us when one of my sons had a medical emergency) who go by the same book and have contempt for violent movements
like the Taliban. We are not wrong to find the Koran problematic but it doesn't mean every follower of the religion is our natural enemy.
2. Foreign policy misadventures should teach us that military intervention from the sky isn't necessarily the way to eradicate Islamic terrorism. We know there is a great deal of collateral damage and we know that every child killed by a drone strike, or bride on her wedding day, (aside from being wrong of its own accord, which is sufficient argument for many of us) recruits far more future Islamist soldiers than it destroys.
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
...following on from the second point, I second those who propose that education is the only sustainable cure to the problem. Education combined with ceasing activities that give people cause to demonise the West.
committing genocide on a scale that far outscales the combined efforts of Hitler, Stalin and Mao is justified in order to eradicate the threat of a small minority within those populations
-
Finally, someone who gets it.
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What stops them all for being right? What stops them for all being wrong? Can a religion be "right" or "wrong"? Does it not need people to place worth in it, more to the point their own worth for the religion, and give the messages THEY see in the religion meaning, before a religion is really saying anything at all to them?
The pan is a tool, and we make it good or evil.
ALL religion is bóllocks anyway.
its a load of made up shíte ( the contradictions in all religions is there to see) that weakminded people believe because they dont have the brain power to make decisions for themselves, so instead they follow the rules of some guy who supposedly lived thousands of years ago.
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What stops them all for being right? What stops them for all being wrong? Can a religion be "right" or "wrong"? Does it not need people to place worth in it, more to the point their own worth for the religion, and give the messages THEY see in the religion meaning, before a religion is really saying anything at all to them?
The pan is a tool, and we make it good or evil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is, I know people who believe in "something" after death. Which is what I believe religion was invented for, to avoid the fear or death and to comfort the unfortunate.
But these people see past the man made laws and búllshíte surrounding it.
I've prayed before, when family members have been on death beds, I'm sure we all have, it's comforting.
If you view it like this, it might be clearer.
There are words on a page. These words are there to be interpreted by people. How they interpret them, is not just what the words say, it's what meaning they put into the words, and the power they give them. Look at the sentence below.
"i didn't say i slept with your wife".
Putting emphasis on any single word in that sentence, give the sentence an entirely different meaning.
"I" didn't say I slept with your wife.
I "didn't" say I slept with your wife.
I didn't "say" I slept with your wife.
I didn't say "I" slept with your wife.
I didn't say I "slept" with your wife.
I didn't say I slept "with" your wife.
I didn't say I slept with "your" wife.
I didn't say I slept with your "wife".
Different every time depending on the word emphasised. Equally, a person reading the sentence could emphasise it whichever way, and another a completely different way. There isn't meaning in it, until the reader puts the meaning there.
Number 4.
My point is, all religious texts are created by man.
All religious laws are created by man.
Why not skip the man made bullshít, accept nobody really knows and if you believe, then believe. There doesn't need to be a reference to a book written 1400 years ago.
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
----
Couldn't agree with you more on this one. The fact people still believe the ramblings of a few mad men thousands of years ago is truly dpressing.
Maybe if we got the fúck out of their countries and left them alone middle east terror groups would stop bombing us? The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
Too many axes being ground around here.
comment by The Post Nearly Man. I just left Hotel Amnesia. Where it is I can't remember. (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe if we got the fúck out of their countries and left them alone middle east terror groups would stop bombing us? The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
Too many axes being ground around here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about Islam mate, it's about all religion.
ISIS aren't there because of America, ISIS are there because there was an opportune moment.
The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
-----------------------------------------
I agree with your main point. But on this: did the Serbs cite verses from the Bible as justification for killing people? Did they state that they wanted to establish a worldwide Christian fundamentalist state?
To say it's "no different" is staggeringly misguided.
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 2 seconds ago
Number 4.
My point is, all religious texts are created by man.
All religious laws are created by man.
Why not skip the man made bullshít, accept nobody really knows and if you believe, then believe. There doesn't need to be a reference to a book written 1400 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that point, we don't differ there you and I, but the issue is that to many, the books are by the hand of their deity. That is the meaning and power given to the books, by them. Asking people to skip the man made, move on to the message and accept nobody really knows, is polar to their belief. And as such they will resist and not agree with you. If a religious person took the same firm and blunt stating attitude to you, and told you to cut the bs and accept, like everyone else, that the bible is the word of god, you would react negatively and resist. That we don't thin what they do is a block there. There are ways around it, simple ways in fact. But it's easier for people to push out from a corner than to mould and share beliefs, and a natural thing for humans to do. This is why it's been such an explosive thing to do to discuss separate religious beliefs in human history.
You can take specific text out of any book and claim the whole book, message is evil. The extracts that certain far right wing groups like to use to demonise Islam from the Quran is again specific text/verse but if you read the full chapter the meaning is totally different.
As for these disgraceful murders in Pakistan. This has nothing to do with religion. There is a war between the Pak Army and Taliban. Both are Sunni Muslim in the main. The Pak army have not taken the threat of Taliban serious enough and children lives have been sacrificed.
If they can't beat the Taliban disease then they need to call for outside help.
We've helped create this nonsense though Busbys, all the way back to the partition of Palestine and supporting corrupt regimes ever since. It's just that we don't particularly like the regimes now that's the problem.
As far as religion goes, you might not agree with it but you can't stand against it. I think it's a load of cobblers on every level but I would absolutely stand up for everyone's right everywhere to believe whatever religion they wanted to as long as the outcome was lawful. If it isn't they're just criminals, nothing to do with religion.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
You get the point about western intervention though cal?
Sign in if you want to comment
Ban the Taliban.
Page 6 of 13
7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
posted on 16/12/14
" If you take it the right way"
How do you know you, and not the terrorists are taking it the "right way".
Met Muhammed or Jesus have you?
posted on 16/12/14
United we win (U19958)
Why should people take what is good and bad from a book written 1400 years ago?
posted on 16/12/14
Uncle Adolf would have sorted em out.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
posted on 16/12/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/12/14
I do hope French is just indulging in a poor taste WUM. By his logic - committing genocide on a scale that far outscales the combined efforts of Hitler, Stalin and Mao is justified in order to eradicate the threat of a small minority within those populations - a member of the Taliban could read this thread, take in French's minority view and come to the conclusion that his organisation hasn't been nearly radical enough. Either way, it is a juvenile and sick contribution to the debate.
I believe that certain interpretations of Islam (for which there is nourishment within their holy book) are a cancer on our planet. However, we should bear in mind two things:
1) there are hundreds of millions of Muslims (e.g. my neighbours who give us a Christmas card every year and who played a crucial role in helping us when one of my sons had a medical emergency) who go by the same book and have contempt for violent movements
like the Taliban. We are not wrong to find the Koran problematic but it doesn't mean every follower of the religion is our natural enemy.
2. Foreign policy misadventures should teach us that military intervention from the sky isn't necessarily the way to eradicate Islamic terrorism. We know there is a great deal of collateral damage and we know that every child killed by a drone strike, or bride on her wedding day, (aside from being wrong of its own accord, which is sufficient argument for many of us) recruits far more future Islamist soldiers than it destroys.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
posted on 16/12/14
...following on from the second point, I second those who propose that education is the only sustainable cure to the problem. Education combined with ceasing activities that give people cause to demonise the West.
posted on 16/12/14
committing genocide on a scale that far outscales the combined efforts of Hitler, Stalin and Mao is justified in order to eradicate the threat of a small minority within those populations
-
Finally, someone who gets it.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What stops them all for being right? What stops them for all being wrong? Can a religion be "right" or "wrong"? Does it not need people to place worth in it, more to the point their own worth for the religion, and give the messages THEY see in the religion meaning, before a religion is really saying anything at all to them?
The pan is a tool, and we make it good or evil.
posted on 16/12/14
ALL religion is bóllocks anyway.
its a load of made up shíte ( the contradictions in all religions is there to see) that weakminded people believe because they dont have the brain power to make decisions for themselves, so instead they follow the rules of some guy who supposedly lived thousands of years ago.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Number 4 Shirt. (U19487)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 23 minutes ago
"Neither way am I wrong in what I see"
That's the problem, there are thousands of people being killed in the name of Allah, and nobody can tell these terrorists they are wrong.
All because of a book written 1400 years ago, which hold no true relevance in today's society.
The truth is, you or I could make up a religion in our heads and it be as real as Islam, Christianity or any other, because that's exactly what Jesus, Muhammed and co did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you can tell people they are wrong for killing, and condemn the actions. That's not what it means.
It means that for every murder in the name of religion, how many loves have been saved by the comfort of it being there? Endless is the list of people who have said the literally owe their life to the church, and that's true for nearly every religion there is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, but answer me this:
1) What makes one religion right and others wrong?
2) Shouldn't there only be one religion?
3) Why must religions have laws written by the hand of man?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What stops them all for being right? What stops them for all being wrong? Can a religion be "right" or "wrong"? Does it not need people to place worth in it, more to the point their own worth for the religion, and give the messages THEY see in the religion meaning, before a religion is really saying anything at all to them?
The pan is a tool, and we make it good or evil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is, I know people who believe in "something" after death. Which is what I believe religion was invented for, to avoid the fear or death and to comfort the unfortunate.
But these people see past the man made laws and búllshíte surrounding it.
I've prayed before, when family members have been on death beds, I'm sure we all have, it's comforting.
posted on 16/12/14
If you view it like this, it might be clearer.
There are words on a page. These words are there to be interpreted by people. How they interpret them, is not just what the words say, it's what meaning they put into the words, and the power they give them. Look at the sentence below.
"i didn't say i slept with your wife".
Putting emphasis on any single word in that sentence, give the sentence an entirely different meaning.
"I" didn't say I slept with your wife.
I "didn't" say I slept with your wife.
I didn't "say" I slept with your wife.
I didn't say "I" slept with your wife.
I didn't say I "slept" with your wife.
I didn't say I slept "with" your wife.
I didn't say I slept with "your" wife.
I didn't say I slept with your "wife".
Different every time depending on the word emphasised. Equally, a person reading the sentence could emphasise it whichever way, and another a completely different way. There isn't meaning in it, until the reader puts the meaning there.
posted on 16/12/14
Number 4.
My point is, all religious texts are created by man.
All religious laws are created by man.
Why not skip the man made bullshít, accept nobody really knows and if you believe, then believe. There doesn't need to be a reference to a book written 1400 years ago.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
----
Couldn't agree with you more on this one. The fact people still believe the ramblings of a few mad men thousands of years ago is truly dpressing.
posted on 16/12/14
Maybe if we got the fúck out of their countries and left them alone middle east terror groups would stop bombing us? The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
Too many axes being ground around here.
posted on 16/12/14
Depressing*
posted on 16/12/14
comment by The Post Nearly Man. I just left Hotel Amnesia. Where it is I can't remember. (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
Maybe if we got the fúck out of their countries and left them alone middle east terror groups would stop bombing us? The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
Too many axes being ground around here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about Islam mate, it's about all religion.
ISIS aren't there because of America, ISIS are there because there was an opportune moment.
posted on 16/12/14
The ISIS thing is terrible, but it's no different to the Balkans and no one started saying it was the bible that motivated the Serbs to genocide.
-----------------------------------------
I agree with your main point. But on this: did the Serbs cite verses from the Bible as justification for killing people? Did they state that they wanted to establish a worldwide Christian fundamentalist state?
To say it's "no different" is staggeringly misguided.
posted on 16/12/14
comment by Busbybabes. (U19985)
posted 2 seconds ago
Number 4.
My point is, all religious texts are created by man.
All religious laws are created by man.
Why not skip the man made bullshít, accept nobody really knows and if you believe, then believe. There doesn't need to be a reference to a book written 1400 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that point, we don't differ there you and I, but the issue is that to many, the books are by the hand of their deity. That is the meaning and power given to the books, by them. Asking people to skip the man made, move on to the message and accept nobody really knows, is polar to their belief. And as such they will resist and not agree with you. If a religious person took the same firm and blunt stating attitude to you, and told you to cut the bs and accept, like everyone else, that the bible is the word of god, you would react negatively and resist. That we don't thin what they do is a block there. There are ways around it, simple ways in fact. But it's easier for people to push out from a corner than to mould and share beliefs, and a natural thing for humans to do. This is why it's been such an explosive thing to do to discuss separate religious beliefs in human history.
posted on 16/12/14
You can take specific text out of any book and claim the whole book, message is evil. The extracts that certain far right wing groups like to use to demonise Islam from the Quran is again specific text/verse but if you read the full chapter the meaning is totally different.
As for these disgraceful murders in Pakistan. This has nothing to do with religion. There is a war between the Pak Army and Taliban. Both are Sunni Muslim in the main. The Pak army have not taken the threat of Taliban serious enough and children lives have been sacrificed.
If they can't beat the Taliban disease then they need to call for outside help.
posted on 16/12/14
We've helped create this nonsense though Busbys, all the way back to the partition of Palestine and supporting corrupt regimes ever since. It's just that we don't particularly like the regimes now that's the problem.
As far as religion goes, you might not agree with it but you can't stand against it. I think it's a load of cobblers on every level but I would absolutely stand up for everyone's right everywhere to believe whatever religion they wanted to as long as the outcome was lawful. If it isn't they're just criminals, nothing to do with religion.
posted on 16/12/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/12/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/12/14
You get the point about western intervention though cal?
Page 6 of 13
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