comment by The Cruyff Turn (U17867)
posted 1 minute ago
Trump won't get in !
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I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, given the alternative.

comment by Kolo's Long Schłông On Tour! KLS ⚽️ (U1695)
posted 6 minutes ago
Unarmed stats mean nothing!

Just because they were unarmed doesn't mean they weren't posing a threat!
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Considering the incidents we have seen when people were running away and got shot or doing nothing and got shot, one has to wonder how many more of these incidents have happened?

This belief that black people are inherently dangerous is a serious problem

The biggest issue we have of course is the 300 million guns and the 2nd amendment.

The cops are rightfully scared that anytime they are called to an incident, the person may have a gun which influences their behaviour.

Why a black person is 5 times more likely to be killed cannot be justified though.

It points to something far more sinister as well as America's justice system

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Kolo's Long Schłông On Tour! KLS ⚽️ (U1695)
posted 6 minutes ago
Unarmed stats mean nothing!

Just because they were unarmed doesn't mean they weren't posing a threat!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering the incidents we have seen when people were running away and got shot or doing nothing and got shot, one has to wonder how many more of these incidents have happened?

This belief that black people are inherently dangerous is a serious problem
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The belief that all police (or even the majority) are of that opinion is an equally serious and dangerous problem. We're talking about decades of tension and mistrust here. It will take at least a generation to heal it.

Historic racial tension between the black and white communities in America.
Why a black person is 5 times more likely to be killed cannot be justified though.

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Inherent racism without some elements of their police force.
Lack of gun control.
Large parts of the African American community glorifying gun/gang violence in their popular culture.

Why a black person is 5 times more likely to be killed cannot be justified though.

-----------

Historic racial tension between the black and white communities in America.
Inherent racism without some elements of their police force.
Lack of gun control.
Large parts of the African American community glorifying gun/gang violence in their popular culture.
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^ This is how it should have read... Clearly copy and paste is not my forte.

within* not without. Flippin' heck.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Kolo's Long Schłông On Tour! KLS ⚽️ (U1695)
posted 6 minutes ago
Unarmed stats mean nothing!

Just because they were unarmed doesn't mean they weren't posing a threat!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering the incidents we have seen when people were running away and got shot or doing nothing and got shot, one has to wonder how many more of these incidents have happened?

This belief that black people are inherently dangerous is a serious problem
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The belief that all police (or even the majority) are of that opinion is an equally serious and dangerous problem. We're talking about decades of tension and mistrust here. It will take at least a generation to heal it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It will take far longer mate, way much longer than that

I actually do not believe the snipers were even black people.

There are a lot of far right groups in the US that consider killing cops a great idea and they are "good Christian men."

Some of the comments here are shocking. Have you seen the majority of these videos where officers have shot and killed black people from point blank range posing next to no threat? Sandra Bland, Tamire Rice, etc.

The other week a white male grabbed an officer's gun to try and assassinate a presidential candidate. He left the building in good health, as did Dylan Roof who used an assault rifle to murder 12 people in a church a few days prior.

There is no question that these officers should be trialed for murder just like any other citizen. It is not enough to say that they "felt threatened". What if the victim feels threatened by the aggressive cop waving a gun in your face? Does that give the detainee the right to shoot and kill the cop without trial?

Beckham's Barnet,

Which specific comments are you shocked by? It's been a fairly healthy debate as far as I've seen.

My issue is simple, if a cop's life is threatened, he has to act to save himself. If he makes himself, judge, jury and executioner, he has to be investigated and punished if found guilty.

The vast majority of these guys get away without even an investigation.

Tamir Rice's case was tragic as he was holding a toy gun in a state with Open Carry gun laws.

Nothing was done, the cop that killed him was fired by another police force for significant protocol issues.

There is something fundamentally wrong with policing in the US.

Comments like:

"Unarmed stats mean nothing!

Just because they were unarmed doesn't mean they weren't posing a threat!"

and

"It's hard to punish police in these situations"


I'm sorry but when the video evidence is there and it's cold blooded murder, something needs to be done.

I've seen multiple cases where someone is just reaching to get their ID (usually under instruction by the officers) and they get shot.

It's not just police officers, it seems any white person shooting a black person to death seems to get the benefit of the doubt.

Tamir Rice's case was tragic as he was holding a toy gun in a state with Open Carry gun laws.

-

Tragic, yet reasonably foreseeable in a state with such lenient gun laws. There needs to be fundamental change to gun laws in American before we can expect to see significant improvements.

The fact is, it has gone too far. Too many guns in circulation.

I fear it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

BUT

This has been going on for years. Let's not suggest that this came about since the inception of gangster rap. Police have been terrorising black neighbourhoods ever since the blacks moved into the ghettos of the US and even more so since the prison system became a billion dollar business.

comment by Beckham's Barnet (U13709)
posted 9 seconds ago
BUT

This has been going on for years. Let's not suggest that this came about since the inception of gangster rap. Police have been terrorising black neighbourhoods ever since the blacks moved into the ghettos of the US and even more so since the prison system became a billion dollar business.
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Nobody is suggesting this came about since the inception of gangster rap. You've taken a single comment in isolation. One line taken from an earlier comment which listed several other contributing factors.

Gangster rap came about to give the black community a voice against police brutality. You can't deny that it also contributed a lot to glorifying gang culture and ultimately heightening tension/mutual fear between the black community and the police.

There are many factors at play here other than the very simplistic view that the police are all racist and out to kill black people.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Beckham's Barnet (U13709)
posted 9 seconds ago
BUT

This has been going on for years. Let's not suggest that this came about since the inception of gangster rap. Police have been terrorising black neighbourhoods ever since the blacks moved into the ghettos of the US and even more so since the prison system became a billion dollar business.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody is suggesting this came about since the inception of gangster rap. You've taken a single comment in isolation. One line taken from an earlier comment which listed several other contributing factors.

Gangster rap came about to give the black community a voice against police brutality. You can't deny that it also contributed a lot to glorifying gang culture and ultimately heightening tension/mutual fear between the black community and the police.

There are many factors at play here other than the very simplistic view that the police are all racist and out to kill black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't suggested anywhere that the police are all racist, I have American police officers in my family. The point I'm trying to make is specifically about these neighbourhoods/ ghettos where quite often the officers drafted in to police these communities are from pretty much all white communities where their only experience of black people is from television and music (god help them).

I agree with your point that ganster music has contributed and I apologise if you feel I was taking that out of content, but I felt it was implied that NWA had started the tension with police as if to say that their anger at the police was unprovoked when in fact it was a reaction to the brutality they had experienced for generations. I completely agree that ganster rap and most hip hop music is a cancer within the black community, but this was by design.

Some good debating points.

Can I just throw something into the mix? Not as a form of justification for senseless killing but as a point for discussion

The point is that Americas gun laws are in very simple terms a right based on taking on the establishment, by force, should the need arise.

Therefore are these shootings not an "exercising" of that right?

I appreciate it sounds insensitive and sorry about that cant phrase it better, I also appreciate there will be its buts and maybes. But in very simple terms if the right to bear arms is a form of keeping the authorities in check and the shootings of black people are seen as abuse of power then isn't this what the right to arms is for/about?

The point I'm trying to make is specifically about these neighbourhoods/ ghettos where quite often the officers drafted in to police these communities are from pretty much all white communities where their only experience of black people is from television and music (god help them).

-

And it's a very good point you raise and one that needs addressing. The police need to work with community leaders to encourage more youths in these communities to establish a relationship with the police, and work needs to be done to make it a viable career option for young black people. As an outsider looking at the situation I can see why certain communities might see this over-policing as a form of occupation/suppression.

comment by Redd Foxx (U19849)
posted 23 seconds ago
Some good debating points.

Can I just throw something into the mix? Not as a form of justification for senseless killing but as a point for discussion

The point is that Americas gun laws are in very simple terms a right based on taking on the establishment, by force, should the need arise.

Therefore are these shootings not an "exercising" of that right?

I appreciate it sounds insensitive and sorry about that cant phrase it better, I also appreciate there will be its buts and maybes. But in very simple terms if the right to bear arms is a form of keeping the authorities in check and the shootings of black people are seen as abuse of power then isn't this what the right to arms is for/about?
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Great point. I can't make up my mind about this.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

It's a hard point to advocate on, because by doing so you risk being seen to be legitimising the murder of innocent police officers on the basis that other police officers have killed innocent members of the community; In essence giving approval to indiscriminate revenge killings.

It's a very dangerous place to go to and will only result in martial law and further oppression if it risks getting out of hand. As a 'righteous' cause I don't think I agree with it, though I can see why some elements might resort to it and argue the point.

I don't believe that you can ever find peace through death unless one side is beaten into submission. With the army and government on the side of the police, I'm afraid that this is a war the black community can't ever hope to win through force of arms.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
The point I'm trying to make is specifically about these neighbourhoods/ ghettos where quite often the officers drafted in to police these communities are from pretty much all white communities where their only experience of black people is from television and music (god help them).

-

And it's a very good point you raise and one that needs addressing. The police need to work with community leaders to encourage more youths in these communities to establish a relationship with the police, and work needs to be done to make it a viable career option for young black people. As an outsider looking at the situation I can see why certain communities might see this over-policing as a form of occupation/suppression.
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It would be ideal for these young black males to be policing their own communities and I think that would be a long-term remedy to the situation. It is certainly a form of suppression if you look at the statistics in likelyness to be stopped or charged with a crime + the amount of charges you get as a black person in the US compared to white, as well as jail time sentences. There have been official government reports on this.

It's a new form of slavery when you look at people going to jail for possession of weed and then basically working for free for a corporate prison but comes then they come out and can't get a job with the new skills learned so the cycle repeats itself.

Wonder what the nra will make of this: "if the police had tanks, Apache helicopters and nukes and a bfg3000 they would have been able to protect themselves."