Comment deleted by Site Moderator
There is a double jeopardy rule that quite clearly states if the player is making a genuine challenge for the ball as Luiz clearly was, then because it is a penalty, a yellow card is sufficient. The ref did not apply the rules.
In fact Tammy clearly unsighted Leno standing in an offside position. Leno was positioned for a shot and not a cross because he could not see through the Chelsea striker to what the Chelsea players were doing. That should have been offside.
The ref was biased for Chelsea through the whole game including walking of the subs. It couldn't be more absurd.
even with an open net jenius?
Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty.
Emerson should have had a second yellow for deliberate hand ball.
Actually putting me off Premier league football so much. If we are playing terribly and losing games it's hard to take but at least you know one day it will get better. With this agenda against arsenal that has persisted for years but highlighted especially in the last 5 or 6 games it's out of our hands. Palace at home was a perfect example of where we should have won by at least 2 goals but 2 key decisions were made against us
I actually thought the ref was poor in regards to arsenal players diving and feigning injury as well as time wasting.(gks, subs etc)
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
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Actually thougjht Abraham was diving tbh.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
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Honestly watch it again. It was an acute angle and mustafi was there. I'd back mustafi to stop that (despite his calamatous nature)
Hand on heart do you think it was a red?
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 seconds ago
joker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really Nick. But Luiz deserve red for being silly.
Abraham was definitely fouled you can see Luiz both hands on him to push him as he lined up the shot. Tammy actually tried his best to take the shot. So I disagree Gunnertrhu
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 seconds ago
joker.
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Nah really Nick. But Luiz deserve red for being silly.
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You actually thought he dived?
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 9 minutes ago
even with an open net jenius?
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Mustafi was got to the goal line so no it was not a simple case of an open net and Luiz did not make a cynical challenge on the player. He made an attempt at the ball and pushed the player who was faster.
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
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Honestly watch it again. It was an acute angle and mustafi was there. I'd back mustafi to stop that (despite his calamatous nature)
Hand on heart do you think it was a red?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I say I dont know the rules, I sit in the shed end and in real time it looked like he would have put it in the net. Looking at the replays I still think he would. Infact know he would.
Watch this video. Pause on 26 seconds, its when tammy first starts his shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgil0ILQSr0
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 22 seconds ago
Abraham was definitely fouled you can see Luiz both hands on him to push him as he lined up the shot. Tammy actually tried his best to take the shot. So I disagree Gunnertrhu
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I looked on Luiz feet trying to play the ball. Must watch it again if he really pushed him tbh. No complaints though because the way Luiz going into this challenge deserve a red.
mustafi is near enough on the penalty spot
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 6 seconds ago
mustafi is near enough on the penalty spot
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But closer to the goal than Tammy. So by the time he had rounded Luiz, Mustafi would have got to the goal line. So it wasn't an empty net had the play gone on. Also remember that Tammy was moving wide and not centre of the goal.
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
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Erm, no. It is only a yellow if you are making a clear attempt to play the ball. A push in the back isn't a clear attempt to play the ball.
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Of course it is because shoulder to shoulder is allowed. However if the player is faster as Tammy clearly was the attempt at the ball looks like push than natural shoulder to shoulder defending.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm, no. It is only a yellow if you are making a clear attempt to play the ball. A push in the back isn't a clear attempt to play the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it is because shoulder to shoulder is allowed. However if the player is faster as Tammy clearly was the attempt at the ball looks like push than natural shoulder to shoulder defending.
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1) It wasn't shoulder to shoulder. He pushes him with two hands.
2) Show me the rule where shoulder to shoulder is allowed.... such a common misconception.
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When the ball is in front of the player, both players are equally allowed to go for the ball and use their body strength to go for it. Thats where shoulder to shoulder comes from. And of course Luiz hands are up after Tammy had moved past him.
Which is why I am not denying it wasn't a penalty. However it was not a cynical challenge as you making out now. The fact is by you originally suggesting that Luiz could have got away with it if he had not pushed him tells you that it was not a cynical attempt to foul the player.
Do you understand that if that doubt exists it is not a red!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 2 minutes ago
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No, I am saying if Luiz had slid in and fouled TA, a clear case can be made that he was going for the ball. Two hands pushing a player who has his body between him and the ball is no kind of attempt at getting the ball.
And you definition above regarding equally allowed to go for the ball isn't any kind of law and doesn't bring in this mythical "shoulder to shoulder" that seems to be ingrained in some people.
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Its not mythical. Both players equally allowed to go for the ball and use their body strength to achieve an advantage. I am not talking about shoulder charging. I think you are confusing the two.
However you are missing the point. Two hands on the player is a natural reaction when the player has paced past you. Its not a situation where Luiz is so far behind Tammy that this is what Luiz has decided to do; that is the only thing he can do to prevent the goal. Luiz was not doing a rugby tackle. And there was plenty of doubt. That is exactly why the double jeopardy rule was brought in. The ref just didn't apply the rules. Which is why most neutrals are now casting doubt on the fairness of his refereeing.
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Chelsea's 2nd Goal
Page 1 of 3
posted on 22/1/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/1/20
There is a double jeopardy rule that quite clearly states if the player is making a genuine challenge for the ball as Luiz clearly was, then because it is a penalty, a yellow card is sufficient. The ref did not apply the rules.
In fact Tammy clearly unsighted Leno standing in an offside position. Leno was positioned for a shot and not a cross because he could not see through the Chelsea striker to what the Chelsea players were doing. That should have been offside.
The ref was biased for Chelsea through the whole game including walking of the subs. It couldn't be more absurd.
posted on 22/1/20
even with an open net jenius?
posted on 22/1/20
Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty.
Emerson should have had a second yellow for deliberate hand ball.
Actually putting me off Premier league football so much. If we are playing terribly and losing games it's hard to take but at least you know one day it will get better. With this agenda against arsenal that has persisted for years but highlighted especially in the last 5 or 6 games it's out of our hands. Palace at home was a perfect example of where we should have won by at least 2 goals but 2 key decisions were made against us
posted on 22/1/20
I actually thought the ref was poor in regards to arsenal players diving and feigning injury as well as time wasting.(gks, subs etc)
posted on 22/1/20
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually thougjht Abraham was diving tbh.
posted on 22/1/20
joker.
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly watch it again. It was an acute angle and mustafi was there. I'd back mustafi to stop that (despite his calamatous nature)
Hand on heart do you think it was a red?
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 seconds ago
joker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really Nick. But Luiz deserve red for being silly.
posted on 22/1/20
Abraham was definitely fouled you can see Luiz both hands on him to push him as he lined up the shot. Tammy actually tried his best to take the shot. So I disagree Gunnertrhu
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 40 seconds ago
joker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really Nick. But Luiz deserve red for being silly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You actually thought he dived?
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 9 minutes ago
even with an open net jenius?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafi was got to the goal line so no it was not a simple case of an open net and Luiz did not make a cynical challenge on the player. He made an attempt at the ball and pushed the player who was faster.
posted on 22/1/20
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Watch the pen again mustafi was pretty much on the line and would easily have cleared Tammy's shot. Coupled with the double jeopardy rule the descion was yet another travesty."
Can't agree. If luiz wasn't impeding him he would have easily stroked it home. even way hes purposefully taken him out with the goalie of his line. Not sure on the exact rules for it, but can understand why a red was given, luiz was never winning the ball and comes through the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly watch it again. It was an acute angle and mustafi was there. I'd back mustafi to stop that (despite his calamatous nature)
Hand on heart do you think it was a red?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I say I dont know the rules, I sit in the shed end and in real time it looked like he would have put it in the net. Looking at the replays I still think he would. Infact know he would.
Watch this video. Pause on 26 seconds, its when tammy first starts his shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgil0ILQSr0
posted on 22/1/20
comment by The One (U22189)
posted 22 seconds ago
Abraham was definitely fouled you can see Luiz both hands on him to push him as he lined up the shot. Tammy actually tried his best to take the shot. So I disagree Gunnertrhu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked on Luiz feet trying to play the ball. Must watch it again if he really pushed him tbh. No complaints though because the way Luiz going into this challenge deserve a red.
posted on 22/1/20
mustafi is near enough on the penalty spot
posted on 22/1/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/1/20
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 6 seconds ago
mustafi is near enough on the penalty spot
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But closer to the goal than Tammy. So by the time he had rounded Luiz, Mustafi would have got to the goal line. So it wasn't an empty net had the play gone on. Also remember that Tammy was moving wide and not centre of the goal.
posted on 22/1/20
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
posted on 22/1/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/1/20
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm, no. It is only a yellow if you are making a clear attempt to play the ball. A push in the back isn't a clear attempt to play the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it is because shoulder to shoulder is allowed. However if the player is faster as Tammy clearly was the attempt at the ball looks like push than natural shoulder to shoulder defending.
posted on 22/1/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/1/20
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago
Just watched the replay for the first time and it is a sending off. Without the push in the back, Luiz may have got away with it but you cannot push him and claim you are going for the ball. 100% correct.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it should have been a pen but only a yellow according to the double jeopardy rule. Its a relatively new rule so I wouldn't be surprised that the ref forgot it. The commentators definitely did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erm, no. It is only a yellow if you are making a clear attempt to play the ball. A push in the back isn't a clear attempt to play the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it is because shoulder to shoulder is allowed. However if the player is faster as Tammy clearly was the attempt at the ball looks like push than natural shoulder to shoulder defending.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) It wasn't shoulder to shoulder. He pushes him with two hands.
2) Show me the rule where shoulder to shoulder is allowed.... such a common misconception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When the ball is in front of the player, both players are equally allowed to go for the ball and use their body strength to go for it. Thats where shoulder to shoulder comes from. And of course Luiz hands are up after Tammy had moved past him.
Which is why I am not denying it wasn't a penalty. However it was not a cynical challenge as you making out now. The fact is by you originally suggesting that Luiz could have got away with it if he had not pushed him tells you that it was not a cynical attempt to foul the player.
Do you understand that if that doubt exists it is not a red!
posted on 22/1/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/1/20
comment by GTWI4T- some people deserve to get trolled (U6008)
posted 2 minutes ago
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No, I am saying if Luiz had slid in and fouled TA, a clear case can be made that he was going for the ball. Two hands pushing a player who has his body between him and the ball is no kind of attempt at getting the ball.
And you definition above regarding equally allowed to go for the ball isn't any kind of law and doesn't bring in this mythical "shoulder to shoulder" that seems to be ingrained in some people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not mythical. Both players equally allowed to go for the ball and use their body strength to achieve an advantage. I am not talking about shoulder charging. I think you are confusing the two.
However you are missing the point. Two hands on the player is a natural reaction when the player has paced past you. Its not a situation where Luiz is so far behind Tammy that this is what Luiz has decided to do; that is the only thing he can do to prevent the goal. Luiz was not doing a rugby tackle. And there was plenty of doubt. That is exactly why the double jeopardy rule was brought in. The ref just didn't apply the rules. Which is why most neutrals are now casting doubt on the fairness of his refereeing.
Page 1 of 3