comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Dr Tobias Fünke (U1217)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP
Agree, VVD gets vastly overrated. He is decent, but no more than that, in a era with so few decent CBs.
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He has only had a little over one season at the top, he needs to do it over 10 seasons, then he can be called great. At the moment, he is OK, but not the best ever. In fact he is a long way from being that.
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This, Like you said, He needs to do it for another couple of seasons to even be mentioned in the discussion.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 22 minutes ago
Before I get called out, I'm not saying he is the best ever PL defender and I'm not saying he is better than any of these.
But, is it just me who says that all the top defenders who have had their careers and have retired get called better because their career is finished? Fast forward 10 years, do you reckon Van Djik (should he remain at Liverpool for his prime years) will be among the players listed above as the PL's best defenders? Personally, I'd think so because I can see Liverpool winning trophies for season's to come, including this years PL and last seasons CL, so I'd definitely say he's up there and will be once we look back on his career.
I don't agree with all this about "there aren't that many world class players in the PL these days". I remember seeing Ballack saying the same about how would Van Djik cope with the top strikers like Drogba for example. Do Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Aubameyang etc not count as top strikers?
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I kinda get what he means and this bares no relation to VVD I’d already put him ‘up there’ and maybe in the future right in the mix with Rio & Terry but I would agree with ballack that the PL opposition that Rio & Terry faced were notably better than what we have today.
Henry
Bergkamp
Van nistelrooy
Rooney
Tevez
Ronaldo
Shearer
Drogba
Torres (LFC not CFC)
Van Persie
Luis Suarez
Now over the next 3-5 years say we might be able to make a list that could compare with that but I don’t think the current crop come close to that group, look at those players. Rio & Terry played against these guys regularly
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Again though, I we speaking of these players in relation that most of them are retired now and we can look back on their careers? Football is much different now where teams only set up with 1 forward more or less in these days so of course the numbers are going to be less seen as when most of these players played, 4-4-2 was generally the preferred formation.
So its not really fair pairing Henry & Bergkamp together and saying "could he deal with them" because no 1 defender can deal with 2 strikers. I'd say he's only dealing with similar quality strikers now, just in a different era of the game. Although its a tough comparison.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 22 minutes ago
Before I get called out, I'm not saying he is the best ever PL defender and I'm not saying he is better than any of these.
But, is it just me who says that all the top defenders who have had their careers and have retired get called better because their career is finished? Fast forward 10 years, do you reckon Van Djik (should he remain at Liverpool for his prime years) will be among the players listed above as the PL's best defenders? Personally, I'd think so because I can see Liverpool winning trophies for season's to come, including this years PL and last seasons CL, so I'd definitely say he's up there and will be once we look back on his career.
I don't agree with all this about "there aren't that many world class players in the PL these days". I remember seeing Ballack saying the same about how would Van Djik cope with the top strikers like Drogba for example. Do Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Aubameyang etc not count as top strikers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I kinda get what he means and this bares no relation to VVD I’d already put him ‘up there’ and maybe in the future right in the mix with Rio & Terry but I would agree with ballack that the PL opposition that Rio & Terry faced were notably better than what we have today.
Henry
Bergkamp
Van nistelrooy
Rooney
Tevez
Ronaldo
Shearer
Drogba
Torres (LFC not CFC)
Van Persie
Luis Suarez
Now over the next 3-5 years say we might be able to make a list that could compare with that but I don’t think the current crop come close to that group, look at those players. Rio & Terry played against these guys regularly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again though, I we speaking of these players in relation that most of them are retired now and we can look back on their careers? Football is much different now where teams only set up with 1 forward more or less in these days so of course the numbers are going to be less seen as when most of these players played, 4-4-2 was generally the preferred formation.
So its not really fair pairing Henry & Bergkamp together and saying "could he deal with them" because no 1 defender can deal with 2 strikers. I'd say he's only dealing with similar quality strikers now, just in a different era of the game. Although its a tough comparison.
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Yes it is totally different these days but I wasn’t putting in pairs etc but purely as a rough list of the best strikers that Rio & JT faced vs the list of best strikers that VVD, I think the players of yesteryear win hands down.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 48 seconds ago
I haven’t checked to be honest
Was hoping some other lazy fcker than me would do it
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Hahaha. I think he did score with Vidic on the pitch; he must have done at least once.
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I think it’s all 3 😂
https://youtu.be/X-KvXB18WZg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah crap
Once again though, are we saying this because they've finished their careers now which seems to make them "better" players?
Aguero, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Lukaku, Diego Costa etc. Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above? You're talking about individuals as well, if you collectively look at an attacking unit of a team, that's where the comparison should really be held.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
Lukaku, Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above?
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So difficult to keep up on here, pool fans spent years telling us how poor lukaku was, now he's an example of the current strength of the PL?
Not a very long video
And I’d say he truly destroyed him once
And I don’t need to explain which goal 😂
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
Once again though, are we saying this because they've finished their careers now which seems to make them "better" players?
Aguero, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Lukaku, Diego Costa etc. Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above? You're talking about individuals as well, if you collectively look at an attacking unit of a team, that's where the comparison should really be held.
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Yeah I’m thinking to how they played when they played, I’m not elevating their play out of nostalgia or anything.
Out of your quick list for example, I would say only Aguero and Kane could talk about being on my older list.
I’m confused one minute you’re saying that it’s different systems so you can’t compare and now you want attacking units used as comparison?
Ultimately, without any restrictions- it’s my opinion that the old list is filled with much better players than the modern one.
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
I am a massive fan of VVD
but the suggestion he is the best of all time is laughable
obviously a claim being made by people who started watchi football since klopp turned livepool's fortune around
he does have all the tool to be the best of all time but only time will tell
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
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Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
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Today’s football would suit Rio Ferdinand in my opinion.
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An awful lot of pundits and ex players at the highest level would disagree with how you’re ranking Rio & Vidic. Was it 14 consecutive games without conceding a goal that is still a record today? Not exactly getting toasted
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An awful lot of pundits and ex players at the highest level would disagree with how you’re ranking Rio & Vidic. Was it 14 consecutive games without conceding a goal that is still a record today? Not exactly getting toasted
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So many variables to consider. And I'm sure there are plenty of pundits and players that would pick VVD ahead of rio or vidic. Great partnership I'm not saying they were not but I just feel they played in a more solid defence, when football was less attacking, and I don't think either would've improved Liverpool's defence as much as VVD has.
We also cannot pretend that rio in particular was a colossus his whole career when the truth is his concentration and consistent form came later in his career.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
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It's silly even comparing what a defender faces today with names such as Bergkamp and suarez etc
Them two alone have a ten year gap between when they joined their teams. Sterling and hazard fit into that class bracket already I think. I'm not saying they are better but equally as effective at the highest level for their teams.
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
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Yeah I think that’s what we need re: VVD. Hazard & Sterking are decent shouts
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's silly even comparing what a defender faces today with names such as Bergkamp and suarez etc
Them two alone have a ten year gap between when they joined their teams. Sterling and hazard fit into that class bracket already I think. I'm not saying they are better but equally as effective at the highest level for their teams.
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I don’t think these comparisons are that mad. It’s not like George Best/Pele vs modern times
It's hard to compare until VVD finishes his career. He has had a strong 2 seasons, although i felt he was better last season.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 44 seconds ago
It's hard to compare until VVD finishes his career. He has had a strong 2 seasons, although i felt he was better last season.
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Yes, the sample size is so small at the moment - I agree on Hazard for instance, but worth noting that liverpool played chelsea just 4 times between VVC joining and hazard leaving, which isn't much of a basis for comparison.
Certainly at this stage of his career VVD is miles behind other defenders - internationally for instance, he has never even been to a major tournament, and has fewer caps than De Vrij - but he may be able to keep going for longer, at a higher level, than his predecessors, so best to judge then.
Only other point I would make is that liverpool's defence isn't that far ahead of their peers - this year they've conceded 21, sheffield united 25; last year 22, city 23 - whereas if you look at, for instance, chelsea in 04/05, they conceded 15 (15!) all season, next best was 26.
So Pool are 5-15% ahead of their peers, chelsea were 40% ahead. And I'll bet that liverpool fans wouldn't swap robertson and TAA for gallas and ferreira.
imagine comparing entire careers to a guy still playing what defender has had a better individual season?
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 2 minutes ago
imagine comparing entire careers to a guy still playingwhat defender has had a better individual season?
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What striker has had a better season than Kevin Phillips in 99/00?
But if we all agree that at this stage it is pointless trying to compare VVD to any retired defender, I think that would suit all of us. But do be sure to tell your fellow liverpool fans, because for sure the "VVD is better than rio/vidic/terry" arguments are not coming from opposition fans.
He’s flavour of the month but got a long way to go to be considered a PL great tbh.
He is almost 29 and spent a big chunk of his career at Celtic & Saints. He’s never played at a World Cup or Euros.
He can’t be compared to the likes of Ramos, Varane, Umtiti etc.
Those who know know and the rest, well they’re just bitter opposition fans.
Sign in if you want to comment
Virgil Van Dijk
Page 3 of 5
posted on 14/6/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Dr Tobias Fünke (U1217)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP
Agree, VVD gets vastly overrated. He is decent, but no more than that, in a era with so few decent CBs.
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He has only had a little over one season at the top, he needs to do it over 10 seasons, then he can be called great. At the moment, he is OK, but not the best ever. In fact he is a long way from being that.
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This, Like you said, He needs to do it for another couple of seasons to even be mentioned in the discussion.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 22 minutes ago
Before I get called out, I'm not saying he is the best ever PL defender and I'm not saying he is better than any of these.
But, is it just me who says that all the top defenders who have had their careers and have retired get called better because their career is finished? Fast forward 10 years, do you reckon Van Djik (should he remain at Liverpool for his prime years) will be among the players listed above as the PL's best defenders? Personally, I'd think so because I can see Liverpool winning trophies for season's to come, including this years PL and last seasons CL, so I'd definitely say he's up there and will be once we look back on his career.
I don't agree with all this about "there aren't that many world class players in the PL these days". I remember seeing Ballack saying the same about how would Van Djik cope with the top strikers like Drogba for example. Do Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Aubameyang etc not count as top strikers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I kinda get what he means and this bares no relation to VVD I’d already put him ‘up there’ and maybe in the future right in the mix with Rio & Terry but I would agree with ballack that the PL opposition that Rio & Terry faced were notably better than what we have today.
Henry
Bergkamp
Van nistelrooy
Rooney
Tevez
Ronaldo
Shearer
Drogba
Torres (LFC not CFC)
Van Persie
Luis Suarez
Now over the next 3-5 years say we might be able to make a list that could compare with that but I don’t think the current crop come close to that group, look at those players. Rio & Terry played against these guys regularly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again though, I we speaking of these players in relation that most of them are retired now and we can look back on their careers? Football is much different now where teams only set up with 1 forward more or less in these days so of course the numbers are going to be less seen as when most of these players played, 4-4-2 was generally the preferred formation.
So its not really fair pairing Henry & Bergkamp together and saying "could he deal with them" because no 1 defender can deal with 2 strikers. I'd say he's only dealing with similar quality strikers now, just in a different era of the game. Although its a tough comparison.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 22 minutes ago
Before I get called out, I'm not saying he is the best ever PL defender and I'm not saying he is better than any of these.
But, is it just me who says that all the top defenders who have had their careers and have retired get called better because their career is finished? Fast forward 10 years, do you reckon Van Djik (should he remain at Liverpool for his prime years) will be among the players listed above as the PL's best defenders? Personally, I'd think so because I can see Liverpool winning trophies for season's to come, including this years PL and last seasons CL, so I'd definitely say he's up there and will be once we look back on his career.
I don't agree with all this about "there aren't that many world class players in the PL these days". I remember seeing Ballack saying the same about how would Van Djik cope with the top strikers like Drogba for example. Do Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Aubameyang etc not count as top strikers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I kinda get what he means and this bares no relation to VVD I’d already put him ‘up there’ and maybe in the future right in the mix with Rio & Terry but I would agree with ballack that the PL opposition that Rio & Terry faced were notably better than what we have today.
Henry
Bergkamp
Van nistelrooy
Rooney
Tevez
Ronaldo
Shearer
Drogba
Torres (LFC not CFC)
Van Persie
Luis Suarez
Now over the next 3-5 years say we might be able to make a list that could compare with that but I don’t think the current crop come close to that group, look at those players. Rio & Terry played against these guys regularly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again though, I we speaking of these players in relation that most of them are retired now and we can look back on their careers? Football is much different now where teams only set up with 1 forward more or less in these days so of course the numbers are going to be less seen as when most of these players played, 4-4-2 was generally the preferred formation.
So its not really fair pairing Henry & Bergkamp together and saying "could he deal with them" because no 1 defender can deal with 2 strikers. I'd say he's only dealing with similar quality strikers now, just in a different era of the game. Although its a tough comparison.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is totally different these days but I wasn’t putting in pairs etc but purely as a rough list of the best strikers that Rio & JT faced vs the list of best strikers that VVD, I think the players of yesteryear win hands down.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Shinjury list (U1700)
posted 48 seconds ago
I haven’t checked to be honest
Was hoping some other lazy fcker than me would do it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha. I think he did score with Vidic on the pitch; he must have done at least once.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’s all 3 😂
https://youtu.be/X-KvXB18WZg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah crap
posted on 14/6/20
Once again though, are we saying this because they've finished their careers now which seems to make them "better" players?
Aguero, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Lukaku, Diego Costa etc. Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above? You're talking about individuals as well, if you collectively look at an attacking unit of a team, that's where the comparison should really be held.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
Lukaku, Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So difficult to keep up on here, pool fans spent years telling us how poor lukaku was, now he's an example of the current strength of the PL?
posted on 14/6/20
Not a very long video
And I’d say he truly destroyed him once
And I don’t need to explain which goal 😂
posted on 14/6/20
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 2 minutes ago
Once again though, are we saying this because they've finished their careers now which seems to make them "better" players?
Aguero, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Lukaku, Diego Costa etc. Are they actually that much worse than some of the one's you've mentioned above? You're talking about individuals as well, if you collectively look at an attacking unit of a team, that's where the comparison should really be held.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I’m thinking to how they played when they played, I’m not elevating their play out of nostalgia or anything.
Out of your quick list for example, I would say only Aguero and Kane could talk about being on my older list.
I’m confused one minute you’re saying that it’s different systems so you can’t compare and now you want attacking units used as comparison?
Ultimately, without any restrictions- it’s my opinion that the old list is filled with much better players than the modern one.
posted on 14/6/20
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
posted on 14/6/20
I am a massive fan of VVD
but the suggestion he is the best of all time is laughable
obviously a claim being made by people who started watchi football since klopp turned livepool's fortune around
he does have all the tool to be the best of all time but only time will tell
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Today’s football would suit Rio Ferdinand in my opinion.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An awful lot of pundits and ex players at the highest level would disagree with how you’re ranking Rio & Vidic. Was it 14 consecutive games without conceding a goal that is still a record today? Not exactly getting toasted
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 46 minutes ago
Adams wouldn't make it at the top nowadays.
Vidic was worse than VVD. He got toasted when ever he met torres. Still great defender just not as composed as VVD. Rio was again great but concentration let him down and wasn't VVD level imo.
Man u played with a back four that was less attacking than Liverpool's too, where their wb bomb forward. United got forward but not even close to Liverpool so I'd argue rio and vidic played in a more defensive system.
Would rio, Terry or vidic/Campbell have had the same effect on Liverpool defence as VVD? Don't see it myself.
They hit the jackpot with him 100%
Bet city regret not getting him now they would've been unstoppable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah the Vidic/Torres myth again
3 goals in 15 wasn’t it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is vidic looked great most the time but like rio, people make out they were stam/vvd level, when they got toasted pretty regularly.
Man u played a more solid system defensively and had great defenders across the whole defence. If u replaced vvd with vidic/rio they wouldn't have the same impact.
Don't even think it's close tbh. And if people are saying they need to do it over 10 yrs then rio and vidic would join VVD out of the equation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An awful lot of pundits and ex players at the highest level would disagree with how you’re ranking Rio & Vidic. Was it 14 consecutive games without conceding a goal that is still a record today? Not exactly getting toasted
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So many variables to consider. And I'm sure there are plenty of pundits and players that would pick VVD ahead of rio or vidic. Great partnership I'm not saying they were not but I just feel they played in a more solid defence, when football was less attacking, and I don't think either would've improved Liverpool's defence as much as VVD has.
We also cannot pretend that rio in particular was a colossus his whole career when the truth is his concentration and consistent form came later in his career.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
posted on 14/6/20
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's silly even comparing what a defender faces today with names such as Bergkamp and suarez etc
Them two alone have a ten year gap between when they joined their teams. Sterling and hazard fit into that class bracket already I think. I'm not saying they are better but equally as effective at the highest level for their teams.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think that’s what we need re: VVD. Hazard & Sterking are decent shouts
posted on 14/6/20
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by *AreYouDumbStupidOrDumbHuh? (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
The art of defending is more difficult in today's era imo. Tackling from behind pretty much outlawed, more play acting, diving and now the introduction of var meaning nearly everything is punishable. Players like Vidic and Terry would struggle more imo
Also Kane will go down as PL top scorer some day, Aguero has one of the best goals to game ratios and Rushfords better than Mbappe, so the argument that the strikers are not as good also falls down here im afraid.
I'm not saying he's the best ever btw but he probably will be right up there in the end
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve listed two players only Aguero & Kane so I don’t see how that argument falls down when you think of players from 2003-2010 say.
Interesting point on the art of defending being more difficult, yes I think Terry & Vidic styles would suffer more now. Rio would be the Rolls Royce that he was in his day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me another 5 years and I'll list the rest. Wide forwards like Hazard and Sterling will go down as greats too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's silly even comparing what a defender faces today with names such as Bergkamp and suarez etc
Them two alone have a ten year gap between when they joined their teams. Sterling and hazard fit into that class bracket already I think. I'm not saying they are better but equally as effective at the highest level for their teams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think these comparisons are that mad. It’s not like George Best/Pele vs modern times
posted on 14/6/20
It's hard to compare until VVD finishes his career. He has had a strong 2 seasons, although i felt he was better last season.
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 44 seconds ago
It's hard to compare until VVD finishes his career. He has had a strong 2 seasons, although i felt he was better last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the sample size is so small at the moment - I agree on Hazard for instance, but worth noting that liverpool played chelsea just 4 times between VVC joining and hazard leaving, which isn't much of a basis for comparison.
Certainly at this stage of his career VVD is miles behind other defenders - internationally for instance, he has never even been to a major tournament, and has fewer caps than De Vrij - but he may be able to keep going for longer, at a higher level, than his predecessors, so best to judge then.
Only other point I would make is that liverpool's defence isn't that far ahead of their peers - this year they've conceded 21, sheffield united 25; last year 22, city 23 - whereas if you look at, for instance, chelsea in 04/05, they conceded 15 (15!) all season, next best was 26.
So Pool are 5-15% ahead of their peers, chelsea were 40% ahead. And I'll bet that liverpool fans wouldn't swap robertson and TAA for gallas and ferreira.
posted on 14/6/20
imagine comparing entire careers to a guy still playing what defender has had a better individual season?
posted on 14/6/20
comment by Taki Minamino (U20650)
posted 2 minutes ago
imagine comparing entire careers to a guy still playingwhat defender has had a better individual season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What striker has had a better season than Kevin Phillips in 99/00?
But if we all agree that at this stage it is pointless trying to compare VVD to any retired defender, I think that would suit all of us. But do be sure to tell your fellow liverpool fans, because for sure the "VVD is better than rio/vidic/terry" arguments are not coming from opposition fans.
posted on 14/6/20
He’s flavour of the month but got a long way to go to be considered a PL great tbh.
He is almost 29 and spent a big chunk of his career at Celtic & Saints. He’s never played at a World Cup or Euros.
He can’t be compared to the likes of Ramos, Varane, Umtiti etc.
posted on 14/6/20
Those who know know and the rest, well they’re just bitter opposition fans.
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