I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
comment by UNCLE TOM COBLEY (U1899)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In your opinion.
But did you read everything I wrote?
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 2 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by UNCLE TOM COBLEY (U1899)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In your opinion.
But did you read everything I wrote?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't NEED to get relegated. The clubs you've named are the handful who have come back stronger. The exception to the norm which is more years of mediocrity.
We are at a low point right now.
We climb from here.
Whether that's with or without Cocu remains to be seen.
Personally, he seems a decent bloke but the results aren't there and we need to change things quickly.
If he gets sacked and goes back to Holland, I wonder if he'll speak Dutch with a Derbyshire accent?
"Hallo daar me duck" maybe?
It’s a shame. With all of the bonkers stuff has had to contend with he deserves to succeed, but it looks further away than ever. Some of the patterns of play are there but there is a spectacular lack of end product and it can only partly be explained by the lack of a quality striker.
Getting rid of the manager isn’t in itself a solution though. We need to get somebody better. It’s easy to say that nobody could possibly be worse but that’s not true. Paul Cook might be a realistic option.
It is not all down to Cocu, Morris must shoulder some of the blame, he has a very poor record of manager choices, and again, in my opinion, is up there in amongst the worst owners category.
He is good at money making, but not very good at assesing in the manager stakes.
View I don't think relegation will bring us success, I keep watching Sunderland and Ipswich struggle to get back to division 2. It was obvious that Cocu hadn't a clue after a few matches, but there were always excuses for him.
When Cocu was anounced as manager Facebook went delerious saying we'd got a few million from Chelsea for Frankie and we had got a better manager. I was sceptical then and I'm certain now that Frankie is miles better than Cocu at managing a football club.
I would like that nice young chap who used to smile a lot, when his team were playing well above their station, as our next manager.
UTR
I can see no merit in our being relegated. And not much more in changing our manager at this stage of transitioning into new ownership. Patience and let the new regime set it's course.
Afternoon Terry,
Your comments echo what a lot of the patient fans were hoping for, 'THE TURNAROUND ', seeing the team gel, the football flowing, the results coming in.....and of course with the patience paying off, the pragmatic fan being able to say "see, I told you so"
It is crazy that the margins are so fine, looking at the highlights we could easily have scored several yesterday and been out of sight and there's other games we have matched the opposition and could have been unbeaten since beating Norwich (undeservedly). Rose tinted, yes.
I think the QPR match was the death knell for me, it just isn't working under Cocu. He is a classy guy if you think about all the factors he's had to deal with. He's helped develop the youth with his backroom staff. But it's clear he's been marginalised too. Mel Morris bringing Rooney in as a player/ coach would not be his choice and possibly repeats his experience in Turkey with the Turkish coaches he was asked to employ into the backroom staff who caused divisions. (Rooney being linked as manager was always going to be a likely prospect when things got difficult for Cocu).
The loss of Martin has already been a highly discussed topic, not so sure if CKR not being Cocu's choice has been discussed to a similar level in his defence.
Cocu's time with us this season did get me thinking how many Dutch managers have been successful over here? For me the main one to stand out would be Gus Hiddink if you consider the high regard the Chelsea squad held him in after his departure.
Jaap Stam's two year spell with Reading was a disaster and I think in a similar manner Derby have regressed and not progressed.(Reading are probably only showing an improvement now with the Serbian in charge)
If you consider managers such as Ronald Koeman, D. ick Advocaat, Lois Van Gaal, Martin Jol and Ronald De Boer (or was it Frank?) they all have an aloofness to themselves that I think Cocu's personality also transmits. This could very well be part of the problem, how Dutch managers come across to British players.
I also wonder if we'd had Cocu after Gary Rowett whether it would have worked better for us? (obviously that is an unlikely prospect given his stock was much higher at the time, but of you could humour me, to those still reading). Rowett's defensive set up may have allowed Cocu to set up his squad better than after Frank Lampard. Frank looked to go very attacking with his 4-3-3 formation and purchased some expensive flops in Malone, Jozefzoon, Evans hasn't been a success and Marriott has major question marks considering Sheff Weds recently dropped him to the bench after playing hm for a few matches and the general reaction from Wednesday fans isn't favourable. Add to that the ridiculous price we paid Ipswich for Wagjorn when he'd joined the Suffolk club for less than £1 million the season before.
Cocu could have had that money, minus the Rooney circus to build his squad and chances are it may have worked much, much better.
With Frank being considered ' part of the lads ', ex Englaand international, his excellent and very clever work to get fans onside, 'the bounce,' feeding into the rivalry with Forest and stoking the flames with Leeds - it obviously does something psychologically to the players.
Compare that with Cocu's approach and the players are most likely bored and require someone who may be more energetic on the bench and behind the scenes?
Where do we go from here?
Well had it been the start of the season I'd have gone with my first choice to replace Frank, Chris Hughton. As that option isn't and we need someone who is experienced at this level, the players can get onside with quickly and play the type of football we know this team is capable of:
Paul Cook would probably be my first choice, he has a wealth of experience at promotions in the lower divisions and as we're in a relegation mix too he'd be a wise head to have given how Wigan player towards the 'business end' of the season and only for (possible) internal sabotage resulted in relegation.
David Wagner - sacked by Schlake after a poor start, but galvanised unfaniced Huddersfiled to the dizzy heights of the PL playing some good stuff. Eye for a good player and with our current squad could possibly improve the attacking threat.
Alex Neil - can not believe how young this guy is and feels like he has been around for a very long time at this level with success at Norwich promoted to the PL and some excellent work under a very tight budget at PNE.
Negatives are it'll feel very much like Billy Davies II - Scottish manager from PNE to Derby plus he did have a very vocal criticism of our spending during the initial pandemic.
Eddie Howe - a lot of fans have suggested Howe for the job, but I just don't think i) he's cut out for the role required ii) his heart would be in it after the rough ride he had last season.
JT - A bit of a wildcard given his lack of experience, but if we consider the success Frank brought (abliet with an expensive assembled squad), the money we'll have to spend once the new owners take over, JT's relationship with Chelsea and Frank possibly allowing us to bring a couple of players on loan, Giroud would work very nicely upfront along with Abdul Rahman Baba at left back and possibly sign Victor Moses?
A very big call our next appointment, let's just pray to God the new owners don't consider a Walter Zenga esque appointment!
I do not think that they will keep a manager that has taken us from playoff finalists to the bottom of the league.
I would imagine that they will go for someone with a high profile that has a pedigree and well known for keeping clubs up.
Paul Cook is the obvious choice, which probably means it won't be him.
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 10 minutes ago
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In no particular order;
1. Cheap (think FPP rather than lack of funds).
2. He would have kept Wigan in the Championship after them being bottom had it not been for dodgy owners. They won about 6 on the trot.
Are you feeling any better BTW?
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 10 minutes ago
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In no particular order;
1. Cheap (think FPP rather than lack of funds).
2. He would have kept Wigan in the Championship after them being bottom had it not been for dodgy owners. They won about 6 on the trot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heady heights, then. Just what the Sheiks are looking for
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
Cook has has 3 promotions, at Chesterfield, Portsmouth and Wigan. That’s good in a short managerial career and without being bankrolled.
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you had a Covid test?
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you had a Covid test?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Not got covid symptoms 🤔
Thanks, mate.
Hopefully be recovered by B City game.
Expecting some changes by then, not least in my moniker
PS Villa have come on somewhat in the 18m since the playoff final
Villa have had 2 sliding doors moments: the play-off final and Sheffield United’s disallowed goal last season that would have relegated them. On such stuff the world turns.
Sign in if you want to comment
Time for Cocu et al to go ????
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/11/20
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
posted on 8/11/20
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
posted on 8/11/20
comment by UNCLE TOM COBLEY (U1899)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In your opinion.
But did you read everything I wrote?
posted on 8/11/20
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 2 hours, 9 minutes ago
comment by UNCLE TOM COBLEY (U1899)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by ViewFromDeWallen (U1581)
posted 49 minutes ago
I might be one of those naive ones who think we will still come good but good for what? Mid-table at best.
The players we have, individually, are very good but the inability to mould them into a 'team' is very worrying.
You're right, the new owners will NOT tolerate this but if the Faithful think that new money is going to create a new dawn and top premier football a lá Man City and Chelsea, they will be mistaken. Finance rules have changed since then.
We are struggling and it's painful to watch but maybe a period of reflection and penance in League 1 will work - just like with Man City, Leicester, Wolves,Southampton, Brighton et al
It's a plan.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bad plan. Since when has relegation done anybody any good
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In your opinion.
But did you read everything I wrote?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't NEED to get relegated. The clubs you've named are the handful who have come back stronger. The exception to the norm which is more years of mediocrity.
We are at a low point right now.
We climb from here.
Whether that's with or without Cocu remains to be seen.
Personally, he seems a decent bloke but the results aren't there and we need to change things quickly.
posted on 8/11/20
If he gets sacked and goes back to Holland, I wonder if he'll speak Dutch with a Derbyshire accent?
posted on 8/11/20
"Hallo daar me duck" maybe?
posted on 8/11/20
It’s a shame. With all of the bonkers stuff has had to contend with he deserves to succeed, but it looks further away than ever. Some of the patterns of play are there but there is a spectacular lack of end product and it can only partly be explained by the lack of a quality striker.
Getting rid of the manager isn’t in itself a solution though. We need to get somebody better. It’s easy to say that nobody could possibly be worse but that’s not true. Paul Cook might be a realistic option.
posted on 8/11/20
It is not all down to Cocu, Morris must shoulder some of the blame, he has a very poor record of manager choices, and again, in my opinion, is up there in amongst the worst owners category.
He is good at money making, but not very good at assesing in the manager stakes.
posted on 8/11/20
View I don't think relegation will bring us success, I keep watching Sunderland and Ipswich struggle to get back to division 2. It was obvious that Cocu hadn't a clue after a few matches, but there were always excuses for him.
When Cocu was anounced as manager Facebook went delerious saying we'd got a few million from Chelsea for Frankie and we had got a better manager. I was sceptical then and I'm certain now that Frankie is miles better than Cocu at managing a football club.
I would like that nice young chap who used to smile a lot, when his team were playing well above their station, as our next manager.
UTR
posted on 8/11/20
I can see no merit in our being relegated. And not much more in changing our manager at this stage of transitioning into new ownership. Patience and let the new regime set it's course.
posted on 8/11/20
Afternoon Terry,
Your comments echo what a lot of the patient fans were hoping for, 'THE TURNAROUND ', seeing the team gel, the football flowing, the results coming in.....and of course with the patience paying off, the pragmatic fan being able to say "see, I told you so"
It is crazy that the margins are so fine, looking at the highlights we could easily have scored several yesterday and been out of sight and there's other games we have matched the opposition and could have been unbeaten since beating Norwich (undeservedly). Rose tinted, yes.
I think the QPR match was the death knell for me, it just isn't working under Cocu. He is a classy guy if you think about all the factors he's had to deal with. He's helped develop the youth with his backroom staff. But it's clear he's been marginalised too. Mel Morris bringing Rooney in as a player/ coach would not be his choice and possibly repeats his experience in Turkey with the Turkish coaches he was asked to employ into the backroom staff who caused divisions. (Rooney being linked as manager was always going to be a likely prospect when things got difficult for Cocu).
The loss of Martin has already been a highly discussed topic, not so sure if CKR not being Cocu's choice has been discussed to a similar level in his defence.
Cocu's time with us this season did get me thinking how many Dutch managers have been successful over here? For me the main one to stand out would be Gus Hiddink if you consider the high regard the Chelsea squad held him in after his departure.
Jaap Stam's two year spell with Reading was a disaster and I think in a similar manner Derby have regressed and not progressed.(Reading are probably only showing an improvement now with the Serbian in charge)
If you consider managers such as Ronald Koeman, D. ick Advocaat, Lois Van Gaal, Martin Jol and Ronald De Boer (or was it Frank?) they all have an aloofness to themselves that I think Cocu's personality also transmits. This could very well be part of the problem, how Dutch managers come across to British players.
I also wonder if we'd had Cocu after Gary Rowett whether it would have worked better for us? (obviously that is an unlikely prospect given his stock was much higher at the time, but of you could humour me, to those still reading). Rowett's defensive set up may have allowed Cocu to set up his squad better than after Frank Lampard. Frank looked to go very attacking with his 4-3-3 formation and purchased some expensive flops in Malone, Jozefzoon, Evans hasn't been a success and Marriott has major question marks considering Sheff Weds recently dropped him to the bench after playing hm for a few matches and the general reaction from Wednesday fans isn't favourable. Add to that the ridiculous price we paid Ipswich for Wagjorn when he'd joined the Suffolk club for less than £1 million the season before.
Cocu could have had that money, minus the Rooney circus to build his squad and chances are it may have worked much, much better.
With Frank being considered ' part of the lads ', ex Englaand international, his excellent and very clever work to get fans onside, 'the bounce,' feeding into the rivalry with Forest and stoking the flames with Leeds - it obviously does something psychologically to the players.
Compare that with Cocu's approach and the players are most likely bored and require someone who may be more energetic on the bench and behind the scenes?
Where do we go from here?
Well had it been the start of the season I'd have gone with my first choice to replace Frank, Chris Hughton. As that option isn't and we need someone who is experienced at this level, the players can get onside with quickly and play the type of football we know this team is capable of:
Paul Cook would probably be my first choice, he has a wealth of experience at promotions in the lower divisions and as we're in a relegation mix too he'd be a wise head to have given how Wigan player towards the 'business end' of the season and only for (possible) internal sabotage resulted in relegation.
David Wagner - sacked by Schlake after a poor start, but galvanised unfaniced Huddersfiled to the dizzy heights of the PL playing some good stuff. Eye for a good player and with our current squad could possibly improve the attacking threat.
Alex Neil - can not believe how young this guy is and feels like he has been around for a very long time at this level with success at Norwich promoted to the PL and some excellent work under a very tight budget at PNE.
Negatives are it'll feel very much like Billy Davies II - Scottish manager from PNE to Derby plus he did have a very vocal criticism of our spending during the initial pandemic.
Eddie Howe - a lot of fans have suggested Howe for the job, but I just don't think i) he's cut out for the role required ii) his heart would be in it after the rough ride he had last season.
JT - A bit of a wildcard given his lack of experience, but if we consider the success Frank brought (abliet with an expensive assembled squad), the money we'll have to spend once the new owners take over, JT's relationship with Chelsea and Frank possibly allowing us to bring a couple of players on loan, Giroud would work very nicely upfront along with Abdul Rahman Baba at left back and possibly sign Victor Moses?
A very big call our next appointment, let's just pray to God the new owners don't consider a Walter Zenga esque appointment!
posted on 8/11/20
JT, no, no, thrice no.
posted on 8/11/20
I do not think that they will keep a manager that has taken us from playoff finalists to the bottom of the league.
I would imagine that they will go for someone with a high profile that has a pedigree and well known for keeping clubs up.
posted on 8/11/20
Paul Cook is the obvious choice, which probably means it won't be him.
posted on 8/11/20
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
posted on 8/11/20
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 10 minutes ago
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In no particular order;
1. Cheap (think FPP rather than lack of funds).
2. He would have kept Wigan in the Championship after them being bottom had it not been for dodgy owners. They won about 6 on the trot.
posted on 8/11/20
Are you feeling any better BTW?
posted on 8/11/20
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 10 minutes ago
Why ?
Sell him to me please, Scouse.
Then try selling him to the new owners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In no particular order;
1. Cheap (think FPP rather than lack of funds).
2. He would have kept Wigan in the Championship after them being bottom had it not been for dodgy owners. They won about 6 on the trot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heady heights, then. Just what the Sheiks are looking for
posted on 8/11/20
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
posted on 8/11/20
Cook has has 3 promotions, at Chesterfield, Portsmouth and Wigan. That’s good in a short managerial career and without being bankrolled.
posted on 8/11/20
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you had a Covid test?
posted on 8/11/20
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by 🏁 AngVanDerRaam 🏁 (U17428)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 11 minutes ago
Are you feeling any better BTW?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, mate.
But thanks for asking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you had a Covid test?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. Not got covid symptoms 🤔
posted on 8/11/20
Get well soon mate. 👍🏻
posted on 8/11/20
Thanks, mate.
Hopefully be recovered by B City game.
Expecting some changes by then, not least in my moniker
PS Villa have come on somewhat in the 18m since the playoff final
posted on 9/11/20
Villa have had 2 sliding doors moments: the play-off final and Sheffield United’s disallowed goal last season that would have relegated them. On such stuff the world turns.
Page 1 of 2