Because maybe he didn't need to bring anybody off against Spurs in midweek? Maybe his physio and sports science staff turned around and said to him "Jurgen, these players can play x amount of minutes in the next couple of games with minimal risk of injury". We just don't know, although I'm sure if he's publicly backing up his point of player welfare, he wouldn't jeopardise that on purpose.
He might need five because his medical team may have said "these 5 players won't be able to last 2 games in 4 days at this time because of x,y and z reasons". It depends what conversations are had.
I know it allows the big clubs to utilise their better squad depth, but every club has their "best players" that they simply cannot afford to lose, whether you are Liverpool or Sheff United. That will always impact them and make them worse for it, so it does benefit every club nonetheless.
But vs Spurs he made no subs. So where was the player welfare then?
------
Why do people keep making this point ? Are you not aware of the counter-argument to this ?
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
He pushed for 5 subs for all clubs and their players.
Those who voted against it did so as a middle finger to Klopp and Pep and at the expense of lads picking up injuries throughout the league.
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 19 seconds ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Intimidation
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your manager is José Mourinho FFS.
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means something else to us (U3979)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your manager is José Mourinho FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember when Klopp tried to gouge out another mans eye on the sideline????????
Me neither!
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a follow on from what I was saying, every club has their "best players" so there is a benefit to everybody.
Klopp just doesn't trust his squad players. Didn't he play Salah and co in a dead rubber CL game?
He rarely makes changes in big games. He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won. The smaller teams never have that luxury.
If you want to rest players then don't play them.
Glad the rule got shot down. Third time this season. Shouldn't be brought up for a vote again. 'Big clubs' trying to bully and belittle others into backing a system that hands them a massive advantage.
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 3 minutes ago
Klopp just doesn't trust his squad players. Didn't he play Salah and co in a dead rubber CL game?
He rarely makes changes in big games. He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won. The smaller teams never have that luxury.
If you want to rest players then don't play them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't trust his squad players? He threw Kelleher into a crucial game against Ajax in the CL where he could have easily chosen Adrian who is far more experienced, even if he isn't brilliant himself.
The smaller teams always have that luxury if they are 3-0 up after 60 minutes, it's just they very rarely are. If anything, that's a sign of the smaller sides not trusting their squads to make a difference in games.
It's alright saying resting players, who else does he play? As I have said above, you don't know what conversations they have had with the medical team before kick off, so he may have had little choice but to field a strong side.
DJ makes a good. It’s worth noting that these are prem standard players, everyone gets the same advantage as they can replace tired/ injured players with fresh ones. I’m that sense even if it’s not an Aguero coming off your bench it’s still a player who can make a change.
But it’s about the overall competitiveness of the game. You cannot just allow the opportunity to change half your team during a game as that kills the spirit of the game. It is supposed to be challenging! The manager and his team have to strategise and play the team according to the game plan, more than three changes removes the risk and will make the game that much less interesting.
As for the players, they are well paid professional athletes, burnout and fatigue is part of the game. It is their job to manage it. Football is already tedious due to players diving all the time, let’s not take the way F1 went with over the top safety rules which kill the sport... danger is part of the reason drivers do it, it’s risk.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree DJ, I have a feeling that several clubs ejo.vited against it will be singing a different tune when faced with the Xmas and January league and Cup schedule.
Just looking around a few European leagues. One thing that is quickly noticeable is that the 'smaller teams' tend to use 5 subs far more often than the 'big teams'.
Genoa (18th) used 5 against top of the table Milan, who used 3 in their 2-2 draw.
Bayern Munich used 3 in their tight victory over Wolfsburg, who used all 5.
Juventus used 3 in a 1-1 draw
Barca only used 4 in their close win over Sociedad, who also used 4.
Real Madrid used 3 compared to Bilbaos 5.
Even in the Championship, Middlesbrough used 3 in their 1-0 win over Luton who used all 5.
To me it looks more like the "smaller" teams are taking advantage of the extra subs, and that makes sense. For "smaller clubs" are more likely to change game plans during games.
He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won.
====
So not really creating an unfair advantage is it?
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 16 minutes ago
Glad the rule got shot down. Third time this season. Shouldn't be brought up for a vote again. 'Big clubs' trying to bully and belittle others into backing a system that hands them a massive advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clubs that won't be in the PL longer than 2 of 3 decisions making decisions for clubs who will be in for 10. Yep that makes sense.
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't you know? Teams outside the big 6 only have 14 players on their books.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 seconds ago
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I'm a club playing Man City then I see the depth that they have at their disposal. I don't buy that these clubs would only use substitutions for fitness reasons. Of course if it's 1-1 with 20 minutes to go theyd use the opportunity to throw on one or two more world class attacking players. Or if the game was a narrow 2-1 bring on a couple of defensive bodies.
Bottom line for me is Klopp knew how many games Liverpool would have to play this season. If he was worried about squad depth and fitness he should have had more than one RB, and not relied on two injury prone CBs. You have the burden of playing in Europe, sure, but you also get large sums of money to balance out those burdens.
Wolves didn't get five subs last year when they had equally difficult fixture congestion. Nor did we in the championship when we were playing midweek-weekend for weeks at a time.
To be honest I'm sick of seeing the mainstays dictated to by clubs like Sheffield United.
Facking atrocious that it's one vote per club.
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
Sign in if you want to comment
Klopp and the 5 sub thing
Page 1 of 5
posted on 18/12/20
Because maybe he didn't need to bring anybody off against Spurs in midweek? Maybe his physio and sports science staff turned around and said to him "Jurgen, these players can play x amount of minutes in the next couple of games with minimal risk of injury". We just don't know, although I'm sure if he's publicly backing up his point of player welfare, he wouldn't jeopardise that on purpose.
He might need five because his medical team may have said "these 5 players won't be able to last 2 games in 4 days at this time because of x,y and z reasons". It depends what conversations are had.
I know it allows the big clubs to utilise their better squad depth, but every club has their "best players" that they simply cannot afford to lose, whether you are Liverpool or Sheff United. That will always impact them and make them worse for it, so it does benefit every club nonetheless.
posted on 18/12/20
But vs Spurs he made no subs. So where was the player welfare then?
------
Why do people keep making this point ? Are you not aware of the counter-argument to this ?
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
He pushed for 5 subs for all clubs and their players.
Those who voted against it did so as a middle finger to Klopp and Pep and at the expense of lads picking up injuries throughout the league.
posted on 18/12/20
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
posted on 18/12/20
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
posted on 18/12/20
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 19 seconds ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Intimidation
posted on 18/12/20
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your manager is José Mourinho FFS.
posted on 18/12/20
Fully agree with DJ!
posted on 18/12/20
comment by We're Italians, Robert, Whack means something else to us (U3979)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Klopp's job is to get results and win titles.
======================
At any cost, by intimidation of 4th officials, by intimidation of the ref, by hook or crook?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your manager is José Mourinho FFS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember when Klopp tried to gouge out another mans eye on the sideline????????
Me neither!
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a follow on from what I was saying, every club has their "best players" so there is a benefit to everybody.
posted on 18/12/20
Klopp just doesn't trust his squad players. Didn't he play Salah and co in a dead rubber CL game?
He rarely makes changes in big games. He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won. The smaller teams never have that luxury.
If you want to rest players then don't play them.
posted on 18/12/20
Glad the rule got shot down. Third time this season. Shouldn't be brought up for a vote again. 'Big clubs' trying to bully and belittle others into backing a system that hands them a massive advantage.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 3 minutes ago
Klopp just doesn't trust his squad players. Didn't he play Salah and co in a dead rubber CL game?
He rarely makes changes in big games. He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won. The smaller teams never have that luxury.
If you want to rest players then don't play them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't trust his squad players? He threw Kelleher into a crucial game against Ajax in the CL where he could have easily chosen Adrian who is far more experienced, even if he isn't brilliant himself.
The smaller teams always have that luxury if they are 3-0 up after 60 minutes, it's just they very rarely are. If anything, that's a sign of the smaller sides not trusting their squads to make a difference in games.
It's alright saying resting players, who else does he play? As I have said above, you don't know what conversations they have had with the medical team before kick off, so he may have had little choice but to field a strong side.
posted on 18/12/20
DJ makes a good. It’s worth noting that these are prem standard players, everyone gets the same advantage as they can replace tired/ injured players with fresh ones. I’m that sense even if it’s not an Aguero coming off your bench it’s still a player who can make a change.
But it’s about the overall competitiveness of the game. You cannot just allow the opportunity to change half your team during a game as that kills the spirit of the game. It is supposed to be challenging! The manager and his team have to strategise and play the team according to the game plan, more than three changes removes the risk and will make the game that much less interesting.
As for the players, they are well paid professional athletes, burnout and fatigue is part of the game. It is their job to manage it. Football is already tedious due to players diving all the time, let’s not take the way F1 went with over the top safety rules which kill the sport... danger is part of the reason drivers do it, it’s risk.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
No team has a "massive" squad, all squads have the same limits.
Sheffield United had their record signing on the bench, as well as a pretty decent standard of player compared to the ones on the pitch. Considering they had to use a sub after just 12 minutes and then replaced that player chasing the game, I do not see the disadvantage they face over a team like Liverpool having Origi, a couple of inexperienced defenders, and then Keita, Minamino and Ox who have hardly impressed.
Yes, the bigger the club the better players on the bench. But then the players on the bench would only be replacing even better players who started. It is all relative.
Honestly think the likes of Wilder have cut off their nose to spite their face.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree DJ, I have a feeling that several clubs ejo.vited against it will be singing a different tune when faced with the Xmas and January league and Cup schedule.
posted on 18/12/20
Just looking around a few European leagues. One thing that is quickly noticeable is that the 'smaller teams' tend to use 5 subs far more often than the 'big teams'.
Genoa (18th) used 5 against top of the table Milan, who used 3 in their 2-2 draw.
Bayern Munich used 3 in their tight victory over Wolfsburg, who used all 5.
Juventus used 3 in a 1-1 draw
Barca only used 4 in their close win over Sociedad, who also used 4.
Real Madrid used 3 compared to Bilbaos 5.
Even in the Championship, Middlesbrough used 3 in their 1-0 win over Luton who used all 5.
To me it looks more like the "smaller" teams are taking advantage of the extra subs, and that makes sense. For "smaller clubs" are more likely to change game plans during games.
posted on 18/12/20
He just wants the option to take his key men off when they are 3 up after 60 mins and the game is won.
====
So not really creating an unfair advantage is it?
posted on 18/12/20
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 16 minutes ago
Glad the rule got shot down. Third time this season. Shouldn't be brought up for a vote again. 'Big clubs' trying to bully and belittle others into backing a system that hands them a massive advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clubs that won't be in the PL longer than 2 of 3 decisions making decisions for clubs who will be in for 10. Yep that makes sense.
posted on 18/12/20
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
posted on 18/12/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't you know? Teams outside the big 6 only have 14 players on their books.
posted on 18/12/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/12/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 seconds ago
Lubo, please explain the "massive advantage" would get from making 2 additional subs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I'm a club playing Man City then I see the depth that they have at their disposal. I don't buy that these clubs would only use substitutions for fitness reasons. Of course if it's 1-1 with 20 minutes to go theyd use the opportunity to throw on one or two more world class attacking players. Or if the game was a narrow 2-1 bring on a couple of defensive bodies.
Bottom line for me is Klopp knew how many games Liverpool would have to play this season. If he was worried about squad depth and fitness he should have had more than one RB, and not relied on two injury prone CBs. You have the burden of playing in Europe, sure, but you also get large sums of money to balance out those burdens.
Wolves didn't get five subs last year when they had equally difficult fixture congestion. Nor did we in the championship when we were playing midweek-weekend for weeks at a time.
posted on 18/12/20
To be honest I'm sick of seeing the mainstays dictated to by clubs like Sheffield United.
Facking atrocious that it's one vote per club.
posted on 18/12/20
comment by ttliv87 (U11882)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Lubo - We're Home! (U14008)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'd imagine that these smaller teams considered which way to vote and which would most benefit them and their players before voting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which would benefit them? Definitely. Which would benefit their players? Definitely not. Don't come crying back to us when half your team have muscle injuries in February. Facking morons. I see Sheff Utd have made full use of that 3 subs advantage against the big clubs. Facking English dinosaurs embarassing us in front of the world again while pretty much every football association in Europe goes for 5 subs with the insane fixture list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leeds have already had plenty of injuries this season. That's football. You roll with it and you deal with it.
Page 1 of 5