Did either Celtic or Rangers expect to qualify from their respective groups?

Rangers couldnt have had a more difficult group
Celtic were always going to be in for 3rd place at best

Ajax just sold two players to Man Utd for £150m or thereabouts the gulf is huge

Its interesting that very few Celtic fans see any comparison between the two clubs but so many Rangers fans are desperate to make one.
=========
the article called out in a nutshell

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 minutes ago

I dont really like this whole better to be in the europa as thats our level.

There is one way we improve to be able to represent ourselves better in europe..... money simples.

The only way we get closer to that level is by being there and earning the money from it.

Constantly playing in europa league (unless we always get to around the semi finals) will not provide the riches enough in order to progress to a level we need to be at.
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Yes and no. Money sure but it needs spent wisely and we do suffer from being held in the gravitational field of England.

comment by CelticTornado (U4316)
posted 1 minute ago
You seem way too intent on pulling Celtic into this abyss your own team are in - Magnum is 100% right , Celtic have been nowhere near as bad - maybe you havent seen the celtic games ?

Celtic fans are pleased at the direction our club is going , weve had to negotiate CL games without our best players and yet weve still performed well in them and alot of the games with better finishing could have ended differently

so sorry the two clubs are miles apart just now and i think thats what spurred the articlejust my opinion of course
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I honestly don't really have much interest in that, if people want to read it as an attack on Celtic then fair enough. It's an assessment of our game over the piece and unfortunately Celtic's record comes in to that. If anyone takes positives from the campaign thats absolutely fine, not at all for me to convince them otherwise. However the absolute undisputable fact is both teams have had their worst performance in the competition on record. GVB now has the worst European record on record as a Rangers Manager, Ange the second worst on record for Celtic. The context to that we could debate as it's not necessarily a criticism of them individually. The rest of the clubs and our national team bounce around their own humiliations.

So if it ends up in a debate over who was less worse then it kind of proves my point. I don't have a lot of interest in that, anyone who has no emotional attachment to either side will assess both sides as being well out their depth at this level.

comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 47 seconds ago
Did either Celtic or Rangers expect to qualify from their respective groups?

Rangers couldnt have had a more difficult group
Celtic were always going to be in for 3rd place at best

Ajax just sold two players to Man Utd for £150m or thereabouts the gulf is huge


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not at all. I have said from the word go our group is too difficult for us , Gio etc to be judged on it.

At the beginning of the campaign pretty much every single bear agreed. Add to that we get decimated by injuries made the task far far harder.

And yet at the end of it we are judging the team on their euro campaign.

comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'Celtic have been just as bad'.

No they haven't. That's 100% clear and if you don't see that it's because your in denial.
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You're doing it again.

Its interesting that very few Celtic fans see any comparison between the two clubs but so many Rangers fans are desperate to make one.

Your team is utterly dreadful and there's probably no way of fixing it in the short term.

Celtic are better in every department and will improve.

That's the only comparison that matters.

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Sums up my point in a nutshell, thank you

I think it's pretty clear that both clubs were uncompetitive in the CL, so I think it's easy to make that comparison?

I'm not sure what your seedings were but I expected Celtic to finish ahead of Shakhtar and you didn't. I'd go as far as saying Celtic, who are a better team than Rangers and at the positive spike of their recent cycle, had a worse CL campaign than Rangers based on expectation and how they should have performed.

Celtic are better in every department and will improve.
_____________________________________

Agree on the first point, I don't see how you can guarantee the second.

comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 17 seconds ago
Celtic are better in every department and will improve.
_____________________________________

Agree on the first point, I don't see how you can guarantee the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He can't and it is wrong.

"arguably in 20 years we have produced at best 5 players who could play at a high level."

Off the top of my head

Patterson
Ramsey
Ferguson
Robertson
Hickey
McGinn
Armstrong
Fraser
Tierney
McKenna

comment by CelticTornado (U4316)
posted 3 minutes ago
Its interesting that very few Celtic fans see any comparison between the two clubs but so many Rangers fans are desperate to make one.
=========
the article called out in a nutshell
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Mental that I reference Rangers, Celtic, the rest of the teams, the national team, youth changes and still the sensitive Celtic supporters immediately get on the defensive of any criticism of their team.

Lets move on - Celtic were great, Rangers were bad. The Madrid fans I saw online raved about your performance over the 2 games and can't understand why you are not in the last 16 or why you were knocked out of 3 competitions last year, or why you haven't won a knock out tie in 18 years. Celtic absolutely belong at this level, Rangers don't.

Any chance of moving on the point of the article now?

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 minutes ago

I dont really like this whole better to be in the europa as thats our level.

There is one way we improve to be able to represent ourselves better in europe..... money simples.

The only way we get closer to that level is by being there and earning the money from it.

Constantly playing in europa league (unless we always get to around the semi finals) will not provide the riches enough in order to progress to a level we need to be at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes and no. Money sure but it needs spent wisely and we do suffer from being held in the gravitational field of England.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
true it needs to be spent wisely but it needs to be there in the first place. ther only way it gets there is by continous qualification of Champ league.

We cant judge ourselves against teams with 4/5 continuous years funding of champ league until we are in the same boat. You may get the odd occasion when a team is playing very very well and cause the odd upset but it wont be the norm.

Money is the no1 most important factor in football.

comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 26 seconds ago
"arguably in 20 years we have produced at best 5 players who could play at a high level."

Off the top of my head

Patterson
Ramsey
Ferguson
Robertson
Hickey
McGinn
Armstrong
Fraser
Tierney
McKenna
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd argue that a few of them are not top level and there's reference to Ramsey who has played once for Liverpool. I'm talking top level, those are good players at a good level.

comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 26 seconds ago
"arguably in 20 years we have produced at best 5 players who could play at a high level."

Off the top of my head

Patterson
Ramsey
Ferguson
Robertson
Hickey
McGinn
Armstrong
Fraser
Tierney
McKenna
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd argue that a few of them are not top level and there's reference to Ramsey who has played once for Liverpool. I'm talking top level, those are good players at a good level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not but they are showing that they can compete at a very high level at least.

comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 3 minutes ago
Celtic are better in every department and will improve.
_____________________________________

Agree on the first point, I don't see how you can guarantee the second.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure why that's a struggle for you aa you've already identified the thing that makes the difference elsewhere on this thread.

you said high level did you not

8 of those are regulars in the PL which is meant to be the best league in the World
Ferguson now starting in Serie A

So whats your arguement? if you meant top level you should have said that

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 26 seconds ago
"arguably in 20 years we have produced at best 5 players who could play at a high level."

Off the top of my head

Patterson
Ramsey
Ferguson
Robertson
Hickey
McGinn
Armstrong
Fraser
Tierney
McKenna
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd argue that a few of them are not top level and there's reference to Ramsey who has played once for Liverpool. I'm talking top level, those are good players at a good level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not but they are showing that they can compete at a very high level at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a laughable list.

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 26 seconds ago
"arguably in 20 years we have produced at best 5 players who could play at a high level."

Off the top of my head

Patterson
Ramsey
Ferguson
Robertson
Hickey
McGinn
Armstrong
Fraser
Tierney
McKenna
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd argue that a few of them are not top level and there's reference to Ramsey who has played once for Liverpool. I'm talking top level, those are good players at a good level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe not but they are showing that they can compete at a very high level at least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a laughable list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
do tell

Article updated for those who had more issue with reference to criticism of Celtic than the point about our game in general. Apologies to anyone offended by my reference to your results in Europe

comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 1 minute ago
you said high level did you not

8 of those are regulars in the PL which is meant to be the best league in the World
Ferguson now starting in Serie A

So whats your arguement? if you meant top level you should have said that
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought I did say top level but I think being fringe players at mediocre Premiership or lower level Premiership teams is not top level.

By top level I mean CL level. Lewis Ferguson getting the odd game for mid table Bologna or Ryan Fraser going through the divisions at Bournemouth before fighting a relegation battle each year is not top level with respect to them.

you said who could play at a high level?

They are proving they can play at a high level in the leagues they are in

comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 47 seconds ago
you said who could play at a high level?

They are proving they can play at a high level in the leagues they are in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So...all the guys in the top 4 teams in division 3?

comment by Magnum (2 in a row easy) (U22391)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Fan Gillhaus 1903 (U3339)
posted 47 seconds ago
you said who could play at a high level?

They are proving they can play at a high level in the leagues they are in
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So...all the guys in the top 4 teams in division 3?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what are you talking about

Im perhaps lucky in that I genuinely don't much care about European results or games?

Of course I want to do well when we play them and yes maybe I'm small minded or insular but winning in Scotland is all its about for me, win the title my season is made, throw in a cup or two and I'm happy as Larry, Rangers win the title and its a right off

How would we improve in Europe? tough to say as even if we have a decent level of players or a superb manager they often don't stay long enough to make us better over a period in time Europe wise, for the first time in a good few years I have at least enjoyed watching Celtic's matches despite the results

comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 10 minutes ago
Article updated for those who had more issue with reference to criticism of Celtic than the point about our game in general. Apologies to anyone offended by my reference to your results in Europe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the reaction says more than you think

The fact is the Scotland National team are doing well , last i checked - highest ranking in decades

celtic seem to be on a real trajectory of improving - and ask Celtic fans and they will tell you how exciting is to watch just now .
for reference look at last old firm game

the truth is its Rangers fans thats in the doldrums - having experience a real high last season you want to drag everyone else down and says its all shiete

it isnt and as a celtic fan i am the most optimistic i have been about my team in such a long time